7afe internals, sumthing a lil new Options

[playr158]

7A block with F head:
1.8 liters (1,762cc)
105hp (SAE net) @ 5,200 rpm
117 lb-ft torque (SAE net) @ 2,800 rpm
Bore = 81.0mm
Stroke = 85.5mm
CR = 9.5:1


7AFE / 4AGE
rod length=.......................132.5 / 122
crank throw=.....................42.75 / 38.5
stroke=..............................85.5 / 77
Difference in compression height =14.75mm

Toyota 4AGE 1.6L DOHC 88-92 MR2
Stock Bore: 3.189, 81 mm | Stroke: 3.031 | Rod Length: 4.804 | Head cc: 39.0 | Gasket: .028 | Deck: .005

ARIAS pistons 4ag(z)e=
Bore in/mm: 3.209 / 81.50
Cr Height: 1.190
Dome CC: 7.5
Cr Ratio w/G head: 10.7
Gram Wt: 288
prt #= 3730300
ring kit prt # =1012283209

Pauter RODS-4a motor
.787” ----------------------pin diam
1.772” --------------------BE bore
4.800”---------------------length
.856” ---------------------BE width
460g ----------------------weight
TOY-200-450-1220F -----prt #

Stock 4AGZE pistons in 7A block will give you 10.8 CR (Edo got 11.06 cuz of the Bigger bore), so then using 1.5 mm head gasked you will get the CR between 9.5-9.6 and using 2mm head gasket will get you at 9-9.1 CR.
you have three options on aftermarket rods ARGO, PUATER, OR CUSTOM 700+ at min



This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 7, 2005 - 10:18 AM

[doGGy]

You can use 82 mm bore on your 81 head... 1 mm gap is practicly nothing, cuz you have to counth that the gap will be smaller then the headgasked will be pressured between block and head. It is way worse then you get the head gasket to stick in combusion chamber, then you get detonations and etc...

As for pistons... If you gonna go with head swap - then youo can go with high $ pistons, but as for 7AFTE..... i dotn see a point in going with somthing more, get the GZE stock pistons, they will cost you 120-200$ and they are forged from factory, so you woun t have any problems.. Invest better in Pauter rods insted in overpriced pistons and 2 mm head gasket this will give you safe boost and higher boost.

[Hanyo]

make a high compressoin 7afe..

[nik]

make a high compressoin 7afe..
[right][snapback]266755[/snapback][/right]

why high compression when you get 2 times the power turbo for almost the some money

[playr158]

mmk doggy thanks
so best way for a pre boost setup would be

stock 4agze pistons
2mm headgasket (82mm bore doesn't matter)
and better rods (obviusly lol)

[nik]

mmk doggy thanks
so best way for a pre boost setup would be

stock 4agze pistons
2mm headgasket (82mm bore doesn't matter)
and better rods (obviusly lol)
[right][snapback]266827[/snapback][/right]

i have 3 stock 4agze pistons 8.9:1 if your interested

i just bought new 8.0:1 pistons




This post has been edited by nik: Apr 5, 2005 - 11:12 AM

[playr158]

NIK i need four you dork

[nik]

NIK i need four you dork
[right][snapback]266870[/snapback][/right]

the forth one is all scared and chip on the bottom only 3 are good you retard

[playr158]

yea i know your loser

thats why i'm goin to look for new pistons
cause even if i take pistons from a used motor
i'll still need new rings and might as well just save up for the package deal and support dustin!

oh and for the 4age head on a 7afe
can i do it NA?.

do for the hell of asking
when i do go 7afte...or rare option of 7agte
can i go SIDEmount INtercooler?
i'm really thinking about this since i have the invader front which a nice fat fmic would be hot but i think if i slid the intercooler (more square shape to it) on the inside of the driver side fender?

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 5, 2005 - 1:42 PM

[nik]

yea i know your loser 

thats why i'm goin to look for new pistons
cause even if i take pistons from a used motor
i'll still need new rings and might as well just save up for the package deal and support dustin!

oh and for the 4age head on a 7afe
can i do it NA?.

do for the hell of asking
when i do go 7afte...or rare option of 7agte
can i go SIDEmount INtercooler?
i'm really thinking about this since i have the invader front which a nice fat fmic would be hot but i think if i slid the intercooler (more square shape to it) on the inside of the driver side fender?
[right][snapback]266879[/snapback][/right]

i'll answer in order

yes i'm a winner ok maybe not

i would buy new also but if your on a budget used ones are ok

yes you can build a 7age with tvis look on club4ag.com for more info

yes you can go side mount just get a good one

i like the look of a fatty FMIC

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 5, 2005 - 2:39 PM

[playr158]

mmk
are all 4age heads TVIS?
cause then all i would need to do is
use the ecu and wiring harness and the rest should bolt up?

[nik]

mmk
are all 4age heads TVIS?
cause then all i would need to do is
use the ecu and wiring harness and the rest should bolt up?
[right][snapback]266923[/snapback][/right]

yes there are non tvis 4age heads

yeah if you get a full harness with ecu and head your 70% closer to a 7age

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 5, 2005 - 2:40 PM

[playr158]

aite thanks to DUSTIN

i'm looking at 4agze pistons (je or arais)
with rings
a cometic head gasket
and now i'm thinking about what to do with rods?
shot peen?
or how should i go about those?

oh block i'm goin to hunt down at the junk yard monday
so thats all gravy woot 35$ for it
oh and i'm goin to stick to a solid 7afte
no motor hybrid for me i've decided to keep the original motor goin!

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 6, 2005 - 12:08 AM

[nik]

aite thanks to DUSTIN

i'm looking at 4agze pistons (je or arais)
with rings
a cometic head gasket
and now i'm thinking about what to do with rods?
shot peen?
or how should i go about those?

oh block i'm goin to hunt down at the junk yard monday
so thats all gravy woot 35$ for it
oh and i'm goin to stick to a solid 7afte
no motor hybrid for me i've decided to keep the original motor goin!
[right][snapback]267172[/snapback][/right]

who is dustin?

i just saw a set of 8.0:1 OEM new 4agze pistons with rings on club4ag
you have three options on aftermarket rods ARGO, PUATER, OR CUSTOM 700+ at min
i just tore apart my spare block and had a look at the 7afe rods and i would replace them they are thin

if your staying 7afte on the head get better valves and springs
also if you want my spare head pm me
what you have so far for your turbo stuff?

[S_C_M]

Imo, you will need to calculate the CR for a 7AF with 4A pistons, or any 7AG. Deck heights are quite a bit different from that of a 4AG, as is the chamber volume of the 7A head, if you're using that.

Just a quick thing I'm sure most have already thought about, but I figured I'd throw it in for anyone who might need it.

*edit* I remember a few years back that Crower had some 7A rods in stock for around $650. Another option that may still be available.

This post has been edited by S_C_M: Apr 6, 2005 - 10:18 PM

[playr158]

the CR on a 7a head with 4agze pistons will increase although the pistons are low cr

thats why a 2mm headgaket is needed
to create a closer to stock cr

[edo17982]

I'm using 4age pistons, bore 82mm and they were rated 8.9 CR and once work were finished I got a static CR of 11.06! do your math....

[doGGy]

Stock 4AGZE pistons in 7A block will give you 10.8 CR (Edo got 11.06 cuz of the Bigger bore), so then using 1.5 mm head gasked you will get the CR between 9.5-9.6 and using 2mm head gasket will get you at 9-9.1 CR.

[nik]

Stock 4AGZE pistons in 7A block will give you 10.8 CR (Edo got 11.06 cuz of the Bigger bore), so then using 1.5 mm head gasked you will get the CR between 9.5-9.6 and using 2mm head gasket will get you at 9-9.1 CR.
[right][snapback]267689[/snapback][/right]

ok this is a little off topic but I’m getting to the point where I’m going to start reassemble now you know doggy 4agze head and pistons 8.0:1 can I just the stock height gasket and will my comp change?

[doGGy]

i was just tryint to find this info my self too.. i dont know about the CR with the Gze piostons and GE head.. Need to do a research on Club4AG there was few topics there i go the info about CR..




By the way, if some one could recalculate the CR for 7A with GZE pistons, here are the info:

Bore 81
Stroke 85.5

Cumbusion chamber volume - 36 cc (head)
Dished piston volume 10 cc

7A pistons are dished, as 4AGZE pistons are almost flat...

Stock 4AGZE pistons in 7A block will give you 10.8 CR (Edo got 11.06 cuz of the Bigger bore), so then using 1.5 mm head gasked you will get the CR between 9.5-9.6 and using 2mm head gasket will get you at 9-9.1 CR.
[right][snapback]267689[/snapback][/right]

ok this is a little off topic but I’m getting to the point where I’m going to start reassemble now you know doggy 4agze head and pistons 8.0:1 can I just the stock height gasket and will my comp change?
[right][snapback]267692[/snapback][/right]

[playr158]

yea i'm looking to hit right about 9:1 CR so i can run NA till
when i start my turbo project

Toyota 4AGE 1.6L DOHC 88-92 MR2
Stock Bore: 3.189, 81 mm | Stroke: 3.031 | Rod Length: 4.804 | Head cc: 39.0 | Gasket: .028 | Deck: .005

Bore: in / mm:3.209 / 81.50

Compression
Height :1.190

Dome CC:7.5

Compression Ratio
w/stock head: 10.7

Gram Wt 288

prt #
3730300

ring kit #
1012283209


looking at these


RODS--pauter---754$ USD
Corolla GTS 1.6L 4AG
.787” ----------------------pin diam
1.772” --------------------BE bore
4.800”---------------------length
.856” ---------------------BE width
460g ----------------------weight
TOY-200-450-1220F -----prt #

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 7, 2005 - 10:03 AM

[nik]

i found this a while ago

7A block with F head:
1.8 liters (1,762cc)
105hp (SAE net) @ 5,200 rpm
117 lb-ft torque (SAE net) @ 2,800 rpm
Bore = 81.0mm
Stroke = 85.5mm
CR = 9.5:1

Here's some comparison data (all in mm):

......................................7AFE / 4AGE / 1ZZFE / 2ZZGE
rod length=.......................132.5 / 122 / 146.5 / N/A
crank throw=.....................42.75 / 38.5 / N/A / N/A
stroke=..............................85.5 / 77 / 91.5 / 85.09
bore...................................81.0 / 81 / 79 / 82.0
Difference in compression height = (132.5 - 122) + (42.75 - 38.5) = 14.75mm


info from http://www.spyderchat.com/enginedetail.htm
and www.pauter.com

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 7, 2005 - 10:44 AM

[playr158]

hold on this is goin to become a sticky
i'm goin to edit my 1st post
so that all this info is in one post

[nik]

sorry for the high jack i'm still adding info like the 1ZZ and 2ZZ for people like fallhero that ask about the 1zz and 2zz rods

[playr158]

i don't know if the rods i posted will work

but here is another option the 4afe set

Corolla FX / MR2 4AFE .748" 1.693" 4.800" .856" 515g TOY-200-430-1219F

[nik]

i don't know if the rods i posted will work

but here is another option the 4afe set

Corolla FX / MR2 4AFE  .748"  1.693"  4.800"  .856"  515g  TOY-200-430-1219F
[right][snapback]267732[/snapback][/right]

if your keeping the 7a block the rods need to be 132.5
the 4afe are only 121.9 too short

also you need to specify those numbers like i did stroke /rod length

just saying .748" 1.693" 4.800" .856" well confuse people

and last i know you updated your front page but you might want to include links to where you got your numbers like i did it will back up your findings and be more creditable

and say doggy nik and edo contributed to the findings

give credit were its do

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 7, 2005 - 10:39 AM

[nik]

Imo, you will need to calculate the CR for a 7AF with 4A pistons, or any 7AG.  Deck heights are quite a bit different from that of a 4AG, as is the chamber volume of the 7A head, if you're using that.

Just a quick thing I'm sure most have already thought about, but I figured I'd throw it in for anyone who might need it.

*edit*  I remember a few years back that Crower had some 7A rods in stock for around $650.  Another option that may still be available.
[right][snapback]267515[/snapback][/right]

i looked around but dont think crower has them anymore.

[nik]

more info

pauter $719+ship

Argo $1500.00 Australian dollars.

custom $600 to $1000+

[frotou]

7age with 4ag bigport piston (blue top) = approx. 10.2;1

7age with 4ag smallport piston (red top) = approx. 12.2;1 (don't try it , my friend did....and boum....)

7age with 4agze piston (8.0;1) = approx. 8.6;1

the cr will be lower with the head planned and vary with the head gasket .

Claude

[nik]

7age with 4ag bigport piston (blue top) = approx. 10.2;1

7age with 4ag smallport piston (red top) = approx. 12.2;1 (don't try it , my friend did....and boum....)

7age with 4agze piston (8.0;1) = approx. 8.6;1

the cr will be lower with the head planned and vary with the head gasket .

Claude
[right][snapback]267903[/snapback][/right]

thanks for adding

also a question on your rods did you just mod the 7afe oem rods or go custom?

have you dynoed yet and what psi do you drive around on?

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 7, 2005 - 4:47 PM

[playr158]

its creditable cause in the post after it says from pauter
from crower who cares get your head out nik blah you don't have to take it for gods word
and its all copy paste from arais and a few other places that i've previously stated
and don't expect a nik said this doggy said this on every page
mrs. english teacher just spit out knowledge and pieces like the rest of us
bitch about credits later when its a complete doc

4age 4afe rods will NOT work so disregard that piece

[playr158]

aite for a sec. lets talk about the block of a 7afe

i'm shooting for a max bore of 83mm to accomidate my 4agze pistons and get the most i can....

even though the block is a strong block i know the walls get thin here and under boost things can happen
i'm planning a daily boost of 2-4 psi
and a run boost of around 10-15psi

so with a 83mm bore (.20 over)
what would the issues be there?

[nik]

its creditable cause in the post after it says from pauter
from crower who cares get your head out nik blah you don't have to take it for gods word
and its all copy paste from arais and a few other places that i've previously stated
and don't expect a nik said this doggy said this on every page
mrs. english teacher just spit out knowledge and pieces like the rest of us
bitch about credits later when its a complete doc

4age 4afe rods will NOT work so disregard that piece
[right][snapback]268061[/snapback][/right]

i dont really care about the credit
But i do care about the right info.... i'm sure kwanza could say more on this subject but i'll leave it at that. Because i know how you like to recycle info

[nik]

aite for a sec. lets talk about the block of a 7afe

i'm shooting for a max bore of 83mm to accomidate my 4agze pistons and get the most i can....

even though the block is a strong block i know the walls get thin here and under boost things can happen
i'm planning a daily boost of 2-4 psi
and a run boost of around 10-15psi

so with a 83mm bore (.20 over)
what would the issues be there?
[right][snapback]268156[/snapback][/right]

i wont answer this but will say our blocks are not as strong as the 7 rib or 5 rib 4ag blocks this is a FACT and boring that big on a boosted set up.......well i wouldnt. In my set up i'm leaving as much of the block there as i can i'm boring out .05 to fit my pistons and thats all "the more meat the better" IMAO and others

but hey no one knows for sure so do it find out if it holds tell us if it doesnt write about here.

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 8, 2005 - 9:31 AM

[playr158]

well i guess its good that i'll have a spare
topend
of my 7afe then incase it does blow

[nik]

well i guess its good that i'll have a spare
topend
of my 7afe then incase it does blow
[right][snapback]268291[/snapback][/right]

you could crack your block or break into one of the coolant passages. there are alot of things that can go wrong if the motor is not prep right

have you torn apart the bottom end? i'll have to get some pics up anyways
that crank is heavy this coming Monday i have to take my block ,crank and some other little stuff down to the shop. The block will get cleaned and bored, the crank will get balance but i need to get a new clutch so everything can get balanced together the guy is checking on rods for me mostly everything is being built to with stand 500-600 horse but i'm only going for 300-400 one of the last major parts are rods ,clutch, and turbo.

somebody buy my 7afte turbo set up so i can finish my motor

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 8, 2005 - 9:52 AM

[playr158]

i havn't even touched my motor lol

i'm taking off the block and head soon
since my block is messed up but this 7afte project i'm not sure how long it will take due to the fact that i'm goin to encounter more bills soon
so its goin to be an as i go i'll do more work
but everything will be built right and to do what it should

[Kwanza26]

FYI... 4AFE rods are like the old 3/5 rib 4AGE rods (16mm press fit pins, 40mm journals)... they're smaller than the later 4AGE rods (20mm float pins, 42mm journals), they're ALL (4AFE and 4AGE) smaller than the 7A rods (20mm press pins, 48mm journals)... and neither will really swap with the other... 2ZZ rods *might* be able to work, but I have the impression they'll require custom pistons to clear the head.

[playr158]

so 2zz might fit but not worth the cash to try

so custom is the way?

kwanza you have any input on a 83mm bore