ARRGGHH!!! Engine won't turn over!!!!, Just dropped dead.. any idea?? Options

[pflau]

Hi. My 98 Celica GT is stressing me out. It won't turn over . I keep cranking and I would EVENTUALLY hear some VERY rough combustions but the engine just won't turn over. The strange thing is that the engine had always turned over instantly, and it turned over just fine two weeks ago. Last week I couldn't start the car, and left it at that because I didn't have time to deal with it. Now I still can't start the car.

I guess my question is: what could've changed in the space of ONE WEEK ? And the car went from starting just fine to no starting??? Any experience with similiar starting problems??? The care was always garaged so it's not like somebody messed up my car intentionally!?!?

Thanks in advance!!

phil

[97sccelica]

if it doesnt turn over, then that means the starter does not turn the crank at all, but from your description it sounds like it just wont start.

could you give some more details

and also check the voltage on your battery

This post has been edited by 97sccelica: Apr 12, 2003 - 4:00 PM

[pflau]

OK, I tried again.. it turned over but it was REALLY rough. To keep the engine from stalling I had to gun the gas pedal. And then I same the HUGE AMOUNT OF SMOKE from the exhaust and I had to turn off the engine because I didnt wanna mess it up.

I actually recorded the whole thing

this is how it sounded

I was almost flooding the engine at the end just to keep it running but then I saw the smoke...

The car was GOOD and had always been GOOD just two weeks ago!!!

Any idea??????


phil

[97sccelica]

wow, that sounds like crap

do you have anyone that would try to put something in your car tank?(i kno that the doors on celicas are latched but someone might find a way in)

what color was the smoke? how old is the tank of gas? what condition are the plugs in? what are the fluids like?

[pflau]

The car was GARAGED. I started it two weeks ago and it was fine.. I actually move it 12 inches in the garage (started it just to move it a little bit), shut off the engine, and closed the garage door. The car was in the garage for a week. Next time (a week ago) I opened the garage and tried to start the car I couldn't.

The smoke is WHITE.. which is just about the only good thing.. the tank of gas is about a month old and the tank is about 3/4 full. All the fluids are good. The car has no history of leaking fluids. The car has only 23k miles on it cus it's mostly a weekend car.

Does the engine sound like its misfiring??

phil

[pflau]

I just checked the fuel cap.. when I opened it I got that hisssss sound which means that it hadn't been opened in awhile so I doubt if somebody put something in the tank

[west_minist]

Try removing 2 or more spark plugs and see if there are fouled up.

If so, clean them and try and start again.

[97sccelica]

that gas is on the old side. if you try to check/clean the plugs and that doesnt help, get one of those hand pump and pump out some of the gas and put in some fresh gas.

[zigy]

These are one of the hints that you can try out...

1. Change the wires, sparkplugs and put some solenoid on the plugs

OR

2. Install a brand new "starter"


(if any of these mods don't change it, you can always return the parts...eg AutoZone)

[west_minist]

QUOTE (97sccelica @ Apr 12, 2003 - 5:10 PM)

that gas is on the old side. if you try to check/clean the plugs and that doesnt help, get one of those hand pump and pump out some of the gas and put in some fresh gas.

gas goes old!

Is that normal?

[pflau]

This is the first plug. Does it look ok??? This whole thing looks encrusted in carbon and it smells like FUEL..

fai

[pflau]

ok, the those three plugs are exactly like that.. all fouled up. one of them is kinda wet too so I guessed the chambers are flooded.

now I need to get some new plugs and see what happens...

phil

[Guest_Matthew_*]

QUOTE (west_minist @ Apr 12, 2003 - 4:27 PM)

QUOTE (97sccelica @ Apr 12, 2003 - 5:10 PM) that gas is on the old side.  if you try to check/clean the plugs and that doesnt help, get one of those hand pump and pump out some of the gas and put in some fresh gas. gas goes old! Is that normal?

lol that's what i was thinking.

i mean what is happening to all that gas in the ground

hey minist we better go get that out before all the cars in the world go bad.

[KAMiX]

I really don't think old petrol will be the problem here.

QUOTE

lol that's what i was thinking. i mean what is happening to all that gas in the ground

LOL

Igotta, you do know that crude oil is refined into petroleum/diesel/whatever before you put it in your tank?


I really don't know that much about internals and their problems pflau but it sounds pretty bad Hate to be a prophet of doom, but take it to a mechanic man.

[97sccelica]

QUOTE (pflau @ Apr 12, 2003 - 5:10 PM)

This is the first plug. Does it look ok??? This whole thing looks encrusted in carbon and it smells like FUEL.. fai

smell like gas hu?

wet plugs, quickly dry them and scrape some of that **** off and see if it helps a little but from the looks of it your plugs are dead, very dead. get new ones

and yes gas can go old, when in the ground it is crude oil, they bring it up, boil it and pump out the section they want and then add in the additive crap which is what i think goes bad by comming out of solution causing a wierd fuel mixture.

when a car goes into storage for example, the gas should either be pumped out or the car should be started once a week.

This post has been edited by 97sccelica: Apr 13, 2003 - 2:21 AM

[west_minist]

Well, everyone in the USA might have that problem.

We have car put down here for month and work after starting.

Either way, what I suspected when he mention black smoke.

Ok! Swap them out and try again.

Keep away from platimun and get a NGK copper replacement. OR buy some Nology Silverstone.

If you had some nology wires, I am sure the car would have started. Either way, when you start the car try not to use the throttle. Let the car start itself. After a couple of secs, and it does not start(something else is wrong), use he gas pedal by 8-10% throttle position.

How old is your car? How often do you drive it? What is the odameter saying?

[97sccelica]

QUOTE (west_minist @ Apr 13, 2003 - 3:06 AM)

Well, everyone in the USA might have that problem. We have car put down here for month and work after starting. Either way, what I suspected when he mention black smoke. Ok! Swap them out and try again. Keep away from platimun and get a NGK copper replacement. OR buy some Nology Silverstone. If you had some nology wires, I am sure the car would have started. Either way, when you start the car try not to use the throttle. Let the car start itself. After a couple of secs, and it does not start(something else is wrong), use he gas pedal by 8-10% throttle position. How old is your car? How often do you drive it? What is the odameter saying?

yup


i run on California piss water, gas everywhere else is a whole lot better

[pflau]

The car is a 98, got about 23k miles. Only drive it on weekends. I did not mention black smoke.. the smoke is white.

Why are you recommending copper plugs?? Do you agree that platinum plugs are actually inferior because their whole purpose of existance is to meet the EPA requirement??

phil

[west_minist]

Platinum is not a good conductor of electricity.

It was use due to its high heat capability to last long in stressful engines.

That is why iridium is better than plat. and can withstand high heat.

Since your engine is not in that category, a good pair of NGK racing plugs would do. Even better, some nology SilverStones would do good and there last very long.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

If your car still isnt running, i would highly reccomend calling a garage and have them look at it...... you dont wanna goof around too much with trying to get it run yourself if you arent sure whats wrong, leave it to the experts.

[97GTinKC]

My 97GT did the exact same thing last fall, had about 2000 miles on new Bosch wires and Platinum+4 plugs, started it to move it, ran fine, went to move it back 2 hours later, and no start, smoked, smelled fuel. ended up having it towed to the dealer since they had just replaced the computer a few weeks before. they blamed it on the aftermarket wires and plugs, they looked just like yours, black and wet. Said there was too much resistance in the wires,,,I did check the wires when i got home with it and the bosch coil wire has about 11,000 ohms, they say that is way too much,,,whatever, its back to stock wires and plugs, runs great!
I still wonder how it fouled the plugs that bad, I also ran across an article about toyota coil problems while I was looking in to this,,,never did reach any conclusions on that...

[west_minist]

That is normal.

When buying performance parts, it must suite your car unless your are changing everything.

[NEVERSTOP]

if you gonna get plugs go with iridium - period.

Also it sounds like you might have a fuel filter problem. does the car want to turn over but just kinda chokes when you try to give it gas? if your car sits alot and only comes out on the weekends then you have gas that is sitting all week long chemically breaking up and puttin all kinda of deposits on the bottom of your gas tank which then gets pulled through the fuel filter and into you engine - that would explain why your spark plugs look the way they do. I would SERIOUSLY recomned having a mechanic change the fule filter on it as you can really mess your car up if you try and do it urself with out knoledge of how it works, not to metion the gas burns...

[pflau]

oh... YES!!! my car is running again. it WAS the spark plugs..

I wasnt gonna pay $12 per plug for the iridiums.. so I went to pepboy and they were out of stock with the nkg platinums so I went to autozone.. they had denso platinums but they only had TWO in stock.. at which point I gave up and bought a cheapo denso copper four-pack for $7.00.

gapped them and put them in today and the engine ran like new!!!!

cool!!!!!!!!!

[NEVERSTOP]

congrats

[pflau]

YES good suggestion I will change the fuel filter ASAP.. I have the service manual so I might even be able to do it myself..

as far as iridium is concerned... their main selling point is they last 120K miles... but I dont need them to last that long!!! and at $12 a plug....!!!!

[NEVERSTOP]

Thats kinda what I though about them until I got a really good price on a set and now its all I use

[Guest_Matthew_*]

12 dollars/plug really isn't that much

i know that HKS makes them for the 3s-gte for around 80/plug.

[pflau]

WTF???

80 buck a plug!!!! what they're gold plated???

[pflau]

QUOTE (97GTinKC @ Apr 17, 2003 - 9:37 PM)

I did check the wires when i got home with it and the bosch coil wire has about 11,000 ohms, they say that is way too much,,,

according to my service manual the spark plug wires should have a maximum resistance of 25Kohm..

so I doubt if your wires were too much...

[97GTinKC]

Yeah, I know, seem to remember 10k ohm per foot as being in a normal range for plug wires // I'd still like to know what they REALLY did to fix it. or why it decided to foul like that, i find it strange both of ours did it after we had started them and ran them for only a few moments to move them.


"That is normal.

When buying performance parts, it must suite your car unless your are changing everything"

The plugs are listed as replacements for the stock plugs, and the wires also are supposed to be replacements for stock, nothing really modified or performance about it.

[pflau]

the only thing "unusual" was that the week after I moved the car was very rainy and humid..