Beat a 7Gen GT..., WTF just happened??? Options

[JoKeRkId613]

I'm on my way home... I see a blue 7th Gen Celi GT on I-75... So I'm just cruising and I notice it's a young guy and the Celi has a little body kit. So I'm thinking, "let me just see how much that car can beat me by". So I pull up even next to him. Three honks. Beep, beep, beep. GO. I had the guy the whole time, pretty much... He kept up with me for like a second. Mind you I have an automatic ST. WTF just happened??? I thought the new Celis were faster! This is a true story and apparently this guy does not know how to drive. I mean, he honked thrice so this was a race. Maybe he was messing with me? What happened? Lol.

[Blakout16]

lol, well from what i gather the ST celica can beat down the celica GT (00+ models of course) i dunno, i havent had ne problems from ne n/a gt's yet.

[Supersprynt]

Its 140hp.

[946thGenGT]

If the GT was an auto I could maybe believe it, but I don't think an ST could beat a 5spd GT. I can take 7th gen auto GTs no problem but the 5spds are more trouble.

[slipgun]

I dint do too bad myself with my manual ST vs a GT but we where just toying with eachother not a strait race but when we both hit it we where about even.

[darksecret]

I have trouble with GT-S's, GT's have never been a problem, but for and auto ST he had to have been messing with you.

[JoKeRkId613]

That's what I was thinking, but if he did decide to really hit it, I have an extra 75HP behing my seat... just in case

[darksecret]

I ran a couple of GSR's today, one had a VTEC badge and the other had a Honda emblem on it, it was funny the one with the VTEC badge almost took out a median trying to get in the turn lane, I eventually lost the other one, what is it with Honda guys and flat black?

[Supersprynt]

GSRs and GT-Ss will just own the ****ta outta GTs let alone STs enough with this BS.

[playr158]

i've beat'n a GT 7th gen
with an manual st

[macavely]

ok the kid driving the 7th gen GT didn't know what he was doing or wasn't racing ... i have had a fully stock 7gc GT take me by a good 3 car lenth .. they girl driving it was just as good of a driver as me... and trust me i know how to drive and get everything out of my car...

[JoKeRkId613]

macavely, im sorry to say but either that car was hooked up or you really cant drive as good as that girl. i mean, from what i gather, you have a gt. 135 horses. i know thats not everything, but its good enough for this topic. i have 110, and i didnt spray nitrous. so i beat this guy by a good half a car. i dont know how that girl beat you by three cars if she was stock... i dont know if this guys car was stock, but he had the action package so it had the trd bodykit thing. i dont mean to offend you by what i said about your driving. im sure youve been driving for a long time and know what youre doing, it just sounded like you were saying my story wasnt true or something. i mean, i know this was a race for sure, the guy honked three times and we were off. that little 1zz was really kicking. i took my overdrive off, as i do for every race... i dont know if that does much. so i dont know. my st is pretty much stock, just intake, diff spark plugs, lol, and nitrous which i didnt use. so your gt probably had three of the spark plug wires disattached when you raced the 7th gen. thats the only thing i could think of...

[macavely]

macavely, im sorry to say but either that car was hooked up or you really cant drive as good as that girl. i mean, from what i gather, you have a gt. 135 horses. i know thats not everything, but its good enough for this topic. i have 110, and i didnt spray nitrous. so i beat this guy by a good half a car. i dont know how that girl beat you by three cars if she was stock... i dont know if this guys car was stock, but he had the action package so it had the trd bodykit thing. i dont mean to offend you by what i said about your driving. im sure youve been driving for a long time and know what youre doing, it just sounded like you were saying my story wasnt true or something. i mean, i know this was a race for sure, the guy honked three times and we were off. that little 1zz was really kicking. i took my overdrive off, as i do for every race... i dont know if that does much. so i dont know. my st is pretty much stock, just intake, diff spark plugs, lol, and nitrous which i didnt use. so your gt probably had three of the spark plug wires disattached when you raced the 7th gen. thats the only thing i could think of...
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Maybe my driving isn't that good ... and yea she is a damn good driver.. but i alse know that 7th gen GT is fast maybe not off the line.. but faster then a 6gc GT and ST ... from point A to B and around corners.... if the person behined the wheel knows how to drive.. and before i owned my GT i had and ST auto tranny.... so i know how damn slow that thing is... so u taking a 7th gen ... well the other kid just didn't know how to drive ... i belive u took him...but there is a reason behined it and its not that ur auto ST is faster then a GT ...

[darksecret]

GSRs and GT-Ss will just own the ****ta outta GTs let alone STs enough with this BS.
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Dude, I wasn't BSing, I didn't say I busted them I just beat them and they were beaters, the GS-T I have trouble with stock, you give low torque cars too much credit, torque makes better for playing on the highway anyways.
BTW I think i've explained that i'm not stock, I need to update my profile.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Jun 13, 2005 - 8:42 AM

[darksecret]

I think he has you there Mac a stock 7th gen GT beating a stock 6th Gen GT, thats like getting beat by a stock D16 Civic, if that happened to me then I would be checking to see if one of my cylinders is even firing (no B/S it's happened before, I ran a D16 Civic and won by a car length because my #1 was giving a really weak spark, explained my starting problem also, it was the plug wire) I'm going to have to get some video of this stuff, they won't have sound since all I have is a Camera with an XD card but it shoots 1 min. clips, and all I need is 16 or so seconds.

[Kwanza26]

GSRs and GT-Ss will just own the ****ta outta GTs let alone STs enough with this BS.
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Dude, I wasn't BSing, I didn't say I busted them I just beat them and they were beaters, the GS-T I have trouble with stock, you give low torque cars too much credit, torque makes better for playing on the highway anyways.
BTW I think i've explained that i'm not stock, I need to update my profile.
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And you don't give them enough credit. Torque makes a car easier to drive, but horsepower is what keeps a car moving at higher speeds. If you wanna talk torque... you better have a sh!t load cause a majority of engine's torque bands are below 4000 rpms. Try shifting at peak torque during a race and then try doing it at peak horsepower... you'll see who's faster.

Anyway... if you have an AUTO ST... you shouldn't be trying to race it anyway.

[darksecret]

I agree auto ST needs help, I really need a video of this stuff, when you're comparing about 128 whp 156 lbs. ft (well that was a couple of years ago when the previous owner had it, not much has changed since, just an intake) to maybe 145 whp 95 lbs. ft. with about a 200 lbs. weight difference yeah I would say I have enough power to hang with any Honda less than a Prelude VTEC. I figured I would get my a** handed to me when I first ran a '98 Si on I485, I figured I did pretty good seeing he had at least an intake and exhaust, I also learned that the KA20 powered Si's are slow I ran right beside one on I77 and I was in 5th the entire time, the main reason people get beat when they push there Celicas to the redline is that any amount of real power was lost about 1,500 rpm back and now they're wasting speed when they could upshift at about 5,000 and take advantage of the powerband, just because a car has a 9,000 rpm redline doesn't mean it has a lot of power.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Jun 13, 2005 - 9:50 AM

[Rjb23]

I agree auto ST needs help, I really need a video of this stuff, when you're comparing about 128 whp 156 lbs. ft (well that was a couple of years ago when the previous owner had it, not much has changed since, just an intake) to maybe 145 whp 95 lbs. ft. with about a 200 lbs. weight difference yeah I would say I have enough power to hang with any Honda less than a Prelude VTEC. I figured I would get my a** handed to me when I first ran a '98 Si on I485, I figured I did pretty good seeing he had at least an intake and exhaust, I also learned that the KA20 powered Si's are slow I ran right beside one on I77 and I was in 5th the entire time, the main reason people get beat when they push there Celicas to the redline is that any amount of real power was lost about 1,500 rpm back and now they're wasting speed when they could upshift at about 5,000 and take advantage of the powerband, just because a car has a 9,000 rpm redline doesn't mean it has a lot of power.
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Wow a prelude vtec is slow, they are heavy and slow.

Everyone on this board with the exception of the gt-four, the ssi, ssii, ssiii, turbo'd and the 3s guys need to face it your cars are slow. Stock for stock a gt or an st is not going to beat a 7th get gt or gt-s with someone that is actually racing you and knows how to drive, let alone a civic si, the 2k si's have like 165 hp and they are geared great, they are quick little cars. The GT and ST are 16 and 17 second cars, that is not fast.

[darksecret]

97+ Prelude VTEC, only Hondas I know of that are faster is the RSX-S, S2000, NSX. There are other versions of these cars but that's pretty much it. Check the specs of the K20A3 Si, it's a 16 second car also (with a top speed of 118 I think), 16.0 flat based on professional driver facts so 16.5-16.8 with an amatuer. Yeah they are heavy but they aren't really that slow, faster than a Celica GT-S.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Jun 13, 2005 - 5:59 PM

[forkee]

ive beat a 7gc gt-s

[darksecret]

I bet you have, no seriously it wouldn't suprise me with a turbo.

[Rjb23]

97+ Prelude VTEC, only Hodas I know of that are faster is the RSX-S, S2000, NSX. There are other versions of these cars but that's pretty much it. Check the specs of the KA20 Si, it's a 16 second car also (with a top speed of 118 I think), 16.0 flat based on professional driver facts so 16.5-16.8 with an amatuer. Yeah they are heavy but they aren't really that slow, faster than a Celica GT-S.
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A 99 prelude has a 1/4 mile time of 15.4, the 99 civic si has a 1/4 mile time of 15.7 both are faster than celica gt's or st's. The integra type-r which is an acura really a honda does the 1/4 mile in 14.7 stock. A 2000 celica gts has a 1/4 mile time of 15.2s. I couldn't find the 7th gen GT's numbers but I'm guessing its better than 16s.

[darksecret]

Where have you got your times, if it's that site with the huge list of cars and times it's wrong info, I tried to use that place before and it's bogus, go with Car and Driver or Road and Track it's funny that the new KA20 Si is considered faster yet it has slower times than the previous models, a lot of places have wrong info or guesses it's funny how it only takes the GT-S 15.4 to do the quarter yet half that time it's trying to climb a mere 30 mph.

[JoKeRkId613]

ive beat a 7gc gt-s 
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I wonder why?... Lol. Nice bro, that guy must've had his mouth wide open. good s h i t. i totally agree the 6g auto st celis are slow as hell. lol. i cant wait to get my 4agze. coming this summer, hopefully. but yea, i dont know. that guy either let me win or he REALLY couldn't drive. either way, if he was driving well, i would've sprayed that 75 and im pretty sure i woulda had that nitrous is the s h i t!

[darksecret]

Since i'm the one holding the camera (explains why it looks like crap) I couldn't shift so I had to keep it in fifth (which isn't a bad thing after 80 but isn't great at 60) and i don't give any gas until I start shooting so it's from a coast so I go from 60-90 in about 10 seconds from a fifth gear roll, so what is that like 7-8 seconds in fourth, funny thing is the fastest quarter mile times on the few you said was the GT-S (ex. the Type-R, i've never had the pleasure to run one) funny thing is even with a 6 speed almost half that quarter is from 60-90 which is roughly 7-8 seconds, basically that means if a Celica GT-S was to pass me flooring it at 60 and I was cruising in fourth at 60 mph I could floor it and keep up, so basically like I said i'm not king ding-a-ling but I can hold my own with an Si and not much less than a GT-S. If you can see in the video I can handle curves pretty well also, this is the one the AMG about lost it on, ask easternpiro1 he's followed me on it and it's sharper than it looks, I would love to see a stock Si hang with me on it.

BTW like I said before this was done a few months ago and all I was doing was trying to see is if I could film and drive at the same time, if I can concentrate on the driving more I might have given it WOT. I'll try to do another if I can find a passenger to film me.

S-Turn

7.8Mb so it's a slow download and I wish I had sound but this was done on just a 16MB Camera.

[Kwanza26]

97+ Prelude VTEC, only Hodas I know of that are faster is the RSX-S, S2000, NSX. There are other versions of these cars but that's pretty much it. Check the specs of the KA20 Si, it's a 16 second car also (with a top speed of 118 I think), 16.0 flat based on professional driver facts so 16.5-16.8 with an amatuer. Yeah they are heavy but they aren't really that slow, faster than a Celica GT-S.
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You should pay a visit to EPhatch.com. One of my local buddies ran 14.9 with his A3... and when you say K20... you should specify. If you think you know well enough to say such and such Hondas are slow, you better know well enough to specify which Honda engine is which. There's a world of difference between K20A3, K20A2 and K20A...

Also... it's pretty redundant to compare a modded car vs. a stock car. If you do happen to go check out EPhatch.com (which I high reccomend you do)... you'll see how many of those "slow" Civic SI's run 14's with bolt-ons and mild tuning.

As for the H22A ludes... they're not that fast. The H22A is a great motor, but the ludes themselves are pretty heavy (~3000 pounds). I'd say mod for mod, an Integra GSR can outrun an H22 Lude.

Oh... and I really hate people who talk trash about racing and stuff... especially when they just don't know too much, nor have too much experience with different types of cars/engines.

[darksecret]

I'm comparing a modded econo engine (that nobody gives credit since nobody tries to really mod it) to a stock performance engine. My bad I said KA20 didn't I i've been talking about 240's a lot lately, to get technical (since the only person it bothers is Kwanza) K20A3, K20A is the Civic Type R right and the K20A2 is the RSX-S, I said Civic Si though, not Type R or RSX Type S. You're right about the Prelude I went off of the numbers since i've only seen one willing to race and I know he would beat me I don't have first hand experience. I figured you of all people would know that knowledge of motors has nothing to do with driving, look at Nascar that stuff looks easy but they don't have the electronic "driving assistants" that other forms of racing have and you can't find too many Nascar guys that can tell you what a 350 is. Also consider this i'm no Honda expert I go off what I race I know enough about Hondas to know which one I can try and which I need to stay away from, if the Si's are so quick you guys got some bad reps because if an Si w/ intake and exhaust can't beat a weak little Celica with some cams, intake, and exhaust Honda Hell must be freezing over.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Jun 13, 2005 - 6:14 PM

[Kwanza26]

I'm comparing a modded econo engine (that nobody gives credit since nobody tries to really mod it) to a stock performance engine. My bad I said KA20 didn't I i've been talking about 240's a lot lately, to get technical (since the only person it bothers is Kwanza) K20A3, K20A is the Civic Type R right and the K20A2 is the RSX-S, I said Civic Si though, not Type R or RSX Type S. You're right about the Prelude I went off of the numbers since i've only seen one willing to race and I know he would beat me I don't have first hand experience. I figured you of all people would know that knowledge of motors has nothing to do with driving, look at Nascar that stuff looks easy but they don't have the electronic "driving assistants" that other forms of racing have and you can't find too many Nascar guys that can tell you what a 350 is.
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It's not a matter of giving credit... you're comparing apples and oranges based on remote accounts. On average, 6th gen Celicas are 17 second cars between modded GT's and ST's. On average, modded 7th gen GT's and GT-S's are 14-15 second cars. On average, modded EP3 Civic SI's are 14-15 second cars. On average, modded Integra GSR's are 14-15 second cars. 1 second is as much as 2-3 car lengths in the 14-18 second range on the 1/4 mile.

I call it bragging when you run across some random car on the street, pass it, and then go off on how slow they are and such, and how much credit your econo-box engine deserves. If you look at other tuner communities and look at their relative averages, perhaps then you can start to make a guess what would really happen if these two cars really raced. Bench racing based on remote guesses and then bragging about it bugs me...

Also... since we're talking drag racing... it doesn't take much skill, and since it's bench racing, let's assume the drivers are all equal. If you're trying to compare drivers, not engines, a pinto can smoke a ferrai if the driver's a monkey. That makes as much sense as trying to compare drivers you don't know anything about.

[darksecret]

If you want to put it that way then Kwanza, what about an SS-II vs. the K20A3 Civic Si, see I could compare apples to apples but this is america, Toyota lucked out on the good stuff, but if I did a 3SGE swap and started busting all the little Si kids around here they would be crying because i'm not stock, well in most other parts of the world that is what came in my car, I didn't upgrade from a B16 to a B18, I went from a Camry motor back to what was meant to be in this car. So now that I gave myself the right to argue due to being stuck with a motor made for another car, unlike Honda kids who get a decent choice. See I only bench raced one car and that was the Prelude since i've never ran one (97+) and the only one i've driven was an '89 Si, the guy I ran with the '04 Si knew what he was doing he ran a lot, and it felt pretty good to have someone with a car that is suppose to be Oogled over by Honda nuts in the US swear that i'm not stock, and as I told him there is a little done, there was no B/S there is a little done to my car, like a few hundred in mods. It just tires me of all these Honda guys getting on here and claiming that a friggin RSX-S can beat a GT-Four, maybe an old beater Four if the front wheels fell off but that's about it.

[Mr_E]

Everyone on this board with the exception of the gt-four, the ssi, ssii, ssiii, turbo'd and the 3s guys need to face it your cars are slow.

A SS-I is slow. Very slow.

[Kwanza26]

If you want to put it that way then Kwanza, what about an SS-II vs. the K20A3 Civic Si, see I could compare apples to apples but this is america, Toyota lucked out on the good stuff, but if I did a 3SGE swap and started busting all the little Si kids around here they would be crying because i'm not stock, well in most other parts of the world that is what came in my car, I didn't upgrade from a B16 to a B18, I went from a Camry motor back to what was meant to be in this car. So now that I gave myself the right to argue due to being stuck with a motor made for another car, unlike Honda kids who get a decent choice. See I only bench raced one car and that was the Prelude since i've never ran one (97+) and the only one i've driven was an '89 Si, the guy I ran with the '04 Si knew what he was doing he ran a lot, and it felt pretty good to have someone with a car that is suppose to be Oogled over by Honda nuts in the US swear that i'm not stock, and as I told him there is a little done, there was no B/S there is a little done to my car, like a few hundred in mods. It just tires me of all these Honda guys getting on here and claiming that a friggin RSX-S can beat a GT-Four, maybe an old beater Four if the front wheels fell off but that's about it.
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Well in that case... you're just being biased. You're now saying it's not your fault, but the little "SI" kids? It doesn't matter what you have really... when I "spar" with a person, it's all about how they communicate their opinions. You're not willing to agree to the very obvious. If you feel the "SI kids" will cry if you do a swap... shame on them... however, when you start bragging, it makes you no better than them (only in reverse polarity).

Oh... and if you've never driven a GT4 or an RSX-S... who are you to say a RSX-S can't hang with a four? Not stock for stock at least... but I'll tell you it won't be a slaughter...

[OOBE]

STs and GTs are SLOW...end of story. A 7GC GT is definately faster and lighter than a 6GC GT...not by much, but it don't matter if you win by an...muahaha...sorry! Anyway, I beat a I/E/ '94 GSR with my auto ST at 3 PSI with a broken piston, LOL. The funny thing was that I started at a dead stop and he took off revving high...I still catched up before a 16th of a mile! So without turbo or NAWZZZ, an ST and GT are SLOW!

[darksecret]

I know i'm biased, I brag because my car has a few mods on it and can run with "tuner" cars and a lot of people on here want to know what it takes to make the underdog win, this car is by far fast, my Sierra would whale on this car in a race (it actually did when my brother had it) but it would smoke most stock 4 bangers in a straight line (ex. an Evo or STi). I'm comparing my orange to the rest of the apples because I have the sporty equivalent to a D16 powered Civic beating B16 powered Civics and have a short clip showing it can hold it's own even in fifth against some cars on a higher level (I do need to get a better clip though and a cameraman). You tried to flame me over a mistake in a Honda engine and then the rest was just complaining about me bragging, if I was in a Civic nobody would care, but it's a Celica, at least i'm starting to show i'm not B/Sing.

[macavely]

OK for all the little kids on here that don't know ship .... a Stock 6gc ST Auto Can not beat a Stock GT 7gc in a real race ... plan and simple ..

[darksecret]

Uh.. Mac I think we covered that.

[macavely]

Uh.. Mac I think we covered that.
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yea but i felt saying it over again ....

[Kwanza26]

I know i'm biased, I brag because my car has a few mods on it and can run with "tuner" cars and a lot of people on here want to know what it takes to make the underdog win, this car is by far fast, my Sierra would whale on this car in a race (it actually did when my brother had it) but it would smoke most stock 4 bangers in a straight line (ex. an Evo or STi). I'm comparing my orange to the rest of the apples because I have the sporty equivalent to a D16 powered Civic beating B16 powered Civics and have a short clip showing it can hold it's own even in fifth against some cars on a higher level (I do need to get a better clip though and a cameraman). You tried to flame me over a mistake in a Honda engine and then the rest was just complaining about me bragging, if I was in a Civic nobody would care, but it's a Celica, at least i'm starting to show i'm not B/Sing.
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Hehe... talk is cheap buddy... if you want to think your Celica GT is fast... go for it. Maybe your definition of fast is my definition of medicore... but whatever floats your boat and keeps you happy. If you really want people to respect your opinion... talk less... show more. Throw down a timeslip... easy as that. Anyone here that have built their cars and raced elsewhere besides with the kiddies on the street... would know better than to just talk.

[ArizonaRed]

i got my a$$ handed to me from a 7th gen GTS and a 98+ prelude vtec and thats when i was turbocharged but i do have an automatic.

[Consynx]

a manual GT vs a 7th gen Auto GT...that'd be interesting

As for all these fancy Honda codes...damn, there's too many variances of hondas to where i can't follow it...
they should turn into America's Acura, althought im sure each engine in those has different codes because ones detuned, ones not...yadda yadda

[TRD6GC]

Well like it has been said by Mac and others, an ST can not beat a new GT. BUT, i have raced a 7th gen GT with my GT, and i won. I did not just pass it and say its slow. We were at a dead stop and went at it, and i won. The specs for a new GT are 140 horse but only 125 ft lbs torque compared to a 6th gen GT's 135 horse and 145 foot lbs torque. So a 7th gen GT has 5 more horse but 20 less torque. I am not bragging, my car is not fast, but neither are 7th gen GT's. And the new celicas weigh about 100 lbs less our 6gc's. Thats is not enough to make a big difference considering the the weight of the two people driving could make a bigger difference (a 260 lb person in a 7th gen racing a 140 lb person in a 6gc, would give our 6gc 20 lbs LESS, this example is just to show that a 100 lb difference means almost nothing) I only say this because a couple people said a 6th gen GT could not beat a 7th GT. --------OBVIOUSLY this is based stock on stock.

[darksecret]

Kwanza you should know from my other post when we butted heads about horsepower vs. torque, I know my car is slow but I consider an RSX-S and SRT-4 slow a 4.8 second 1/8th mile Chevelle is fast. Your telling a guy that came over from domestic muscle cars he doesn't know the definition of fast, that is like telling a Honda guy he doesn't know the definition of VTEC. I wasn't saying my car was fast I was saying it's as fast as a 7th gen GT-S, which is still slow but faster than a stock 6th gen your the one who got defensive when I compared it to an Si, I would compare it to a D16 Civic but i'm past that level, there are two modded (more than exhaust and intake) D16 Civics in my area and i'm friends with both drivers and yes they can beat a stock GT but the only way they can beat me is when I top out so I move up to Si's and when I mod some more i'll compare my car to even faster cars, just because I singled Honda out doesn't mean you have to go on the defensive it just means they are the most common import on the road and are easy to find someone willing to race.

[Consynx]

TRD, while you are correct, i was referring to an auto GT vs manual 6gc GT because the Auto GT 7th gen supposedly is a LOT slower than the manual(almost 1sec 1/4mile)

[TRD6GC]

TRD, while you are correct, i was referring to an auto GT vs manual 6gc GT because the Auto GT 7th gen supposedly is a LOT slower than the manual(almost 1sec 1/4mile)
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Ok i got ya, so your saying in that scenario the 7GC would lose because of the slowness of an auto? The way you said it i thought you meant it would be a close race. I think either both 5 spd or both auto would be the best race. So would you agree with this.....???

I think it would go like this:
6GC-GT 7GC-GT
\ | /---------\ | /
\|/-----------\|/
AUTO vs AUTO=6GC
AUTO vs 5SPD=7GC
5SPD vs AUTO=6GC
5SPD vs 5SPD=6GC

This post has been edited by TRD6GC: Jun 14, 2005 - 11:07 PM