4agze Nearing completion, Street legal, & a few more vids/pics Options

[FAQdaWorld]

Well the swap is really close to being done now. I got someone to weld the rest of the exhaust up, its a little restrictive but I'll be getting all new exhaust once i go turbo.

I figured i'd post up a video for you gents to look at

I have the greddy cat back on there, and as you can see the celica MOVES!!!

Right click, save as

Whats left to be done:


Install front shocks (kyb gr2's)

FMIC

Hook Up power steering

Body shop to finish up the front.


Overall we should be done within the next week or two.

-FAQ

This post has been edited by FAQdaWorld: Jul 25, 2005 - 1:49 AM

[JoKeRkId613]

hey man. i just want you to know that youre my role model right now bro. im going to be doing the gze swap this summer and i was hoping, when you have time, you could write something up with the problems you encountered along the way and the solutions. just so im prepared. what tranny did u use? and also, what version of the gze is this? ae101? thats the one i want. but i love the vid. keep it up and goodluck!

[FAQdaWorld]

hey man. i just want you to know that youre my role model right now bro. im going to be doing the gze swap this summer and i was hoping, when you have time, you could write something up with the problems you encountered along the way and the solutions. just so im prepared. what tranny did u use? and also, what version of the gze is this? ae101? thats the one i want. but i love the vid. keep it up and goodluck!
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Haha, i dont have time to write THAT book. I'll probably end up putting something together in terms of telling people some of my problems / solutions.

The tranny is the e58, and the engine is the ae101.

Few more pics for the hell of it.









-FAQ

[FallenHero]

what are you using for an EMS?

[FAQdaWorld]

the ecu for an ae101 4agze. I found a guy who does the wiring and he really knows his stuff unlike some other people. I'm sure he'd be happy to do more, its his business. He can also get 4agze parts for all you 7afte'ers out there.

[CheesyLobster]

the video wont work for me, tried dling new codecs with no luck.

[Rjb23]

the video wont work for me, tried dling new codecs with no luck.
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Use quicktime.

[FAQdaWorld]

I did the video in a different format, its only about 1.5 mb now, and it should work in more computers

[FallenHero]

the 101's were distributorless? I see the coil pack...

[FAQdaWorld]

The only ones that werent dli were the aw11's from the mk1 mr2. AE92, and 101 are both dli.

[FallenHero]

you sure the 92's werent?

[FAQdaWorld]

Positive.

club4ag tech ref.

[FallenHero]

hrm. I had no clue. gotta love club4ag

[H8DC3lica94]

im jealous! i am still on the wiring!!!! ahhhhh!
I saw that u ran into the 2-1 downpipe problem too! i need one also. What did u end up doin? i plan on getting the trd headers since they look nice. Do u happen to know if i ccan just use 4age headers or do i really need to go with a 4agze one.

[FAQdaWorld]

You can use the headers from a 4age, but they SUCK compared to the stock gze stuff. Look on club4ag for the downpipe or w/e you want to call it. I found mine from a fellow club4ager and got the header and downpipe for 50 bucks delivered to my door (he lived pretty near me hehe).

Good luck finding the trd headers, they are discontinued, and what is on ebay is hard to find and expensive. I Honestly think you should hold out for someone from club4ag to sell their stuff, they dont use the fwd manifolds anyway.

Good luck, i should be going to the shop very soon, to get her finished up 100%.

[FAQdaWorld]

I thought i'd go ahead and add this today...



Ignore the splooge and concentrate more upon the burnouts



To DO :Still waiting on powersteering, and now we're having some trouble w/ the efi circuit...



-FAQ

[H8DC3lica94]

jealous i am....

[celi_gt_racer]

waiting for a bigger and better video I am~

[Kadett]

What kind of specs has it. Engine size, # Valves, output @ #### Rpm??
And whats the difference with a agze engine and a age engine?

This post has been edited by Kadett: Jul 2, 2005 - 12:22 PM

[lagos]

nice job. post some vids of the engine bay while its running

[FAQdaWorld]

What kind of specs has it. Engine size, # Valves, output @ #### Rpm??
And whats the difference with a agze engine and a age engine?
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This is the ae101 4agze, its a dohc 16v, supercharged 4 banger. It's got 170 hp @ 6400 rpm, and around 170 ft/lb of torque (correct if wrong?)

The main difference between the 4age and the 4agze would be the supercharger, but also the 4agze has lower compression and stronger internals (better for more boost later).


I'll post more vids maybe tonight, or later in the week.

-FAQ

[lagos]

i would consider going to a fmic as soon as u can. that top mount is just going to heatsoak to death where it is now without any type of hood scoop.

[Kwanza26]

This is the ae101 4agze, its a dohc 16v, supercharged 4 banger. It's got 170 hp @ 6400 rpm, and around 170 ft/lb of torque (correct if wrong?)

The main difference between the 4age and the 4agze would be the supercharger, but also the 4agze has lower compression and stronger internals (better for more boost later).
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The torque rating is actually around 150 ft lbs...

Anyway, it's basically the same thing as the later model (42mm crank) 4AGE's except it has lower compression and a supercharger. The rods, crank, etc... are all essentially the same thing between the 42mm models, except for the 20V's...

[OOBE]

Sounds nice...doesn't sound like a puny 1.6l!

[FAQdaWorld]

Yeah, i'm going fmic like next week haha. Its just like that now so i can run it. I am gonna have the fmic welded in when i get some body work done on the car.

I really think the exhaust i have on there is pretty restrictive, i have it going from the dp to a reducer and then into a cat, and then into the greddy sp1 that i've always had. So eventually (after i pass smog) i'm gonna sell that stuff and get all new exhaust.

-FAQ

[lagos]

yeah thats a good idea. the exhaust is a great upgrade for a turbo or super charged motor.

[FAQdaWorld]

Ran the celica through emissions the other day, and failed. Seems I have a faulty o2 sensor, so i've ordered a new one (figures that the gze had to use a 4 wire o2 sensor which is the most expensive kind...). Hopefully I'll replace it and then pass emissions, if not then theres always the good ole rubbing alcohol trick

[H8DC3lica94]

i wish i could fail emmisions ... i wish i had a running car...

Here's the new plan.
GET A STAND ALONE ECU. RUN ONLY THE BASIC COMPONENTS.

Anyone in the San Diego, Southern CAli region that can help me out, Please email me or pm or aim.

Thanks!

And please show some more vids and pics of that 4agze of yours.

[FAQdaWorld]

Well, about 2 or three weeks later or whatever... but we passed!!!!


We used a variety of tricks, ran the engine real hard before going there, put some rubbing alcohol in the gas tank (dont worry i diluted it again immediately after i passed), and then i used the s-afc to lean out the fuel just a bit just in case, we didnt need it tho.


Passed emissions w/ flying colors,

I promised a video, sorry its not much, but i'll compile something nice soon


Shorty

[jgreening]

congrats FAQ! I know you have been waiting a long time to have her ready to hit the streets!

[Coomer]

Congrats! I want to see some video of it on the streets.

[FAQdaWorld]

sadly, we are still pretty far off from there, needs to go to the body shop and get teh front end repaired / fmic setup. Need to have a hybrid axle made for the passenger side still (its kinda shoehorned in there now), and then we gotta pull the motor again and replace the clutch, because there is some kind of contaminant in there making it slip like a mother...., I figure will i have the motor out I'll go ahead and replace the crank pulley for some more boost. So it will be another month or so before we are totally done.


-FAQ

[FAQdaWorld]

Added a video of the boost gauge doing its thing, and of the oil filter relocation we did today.


Dont worry, the engine does maintain boost when under a load, when at idle the ecu knows to let the boost go





Boost gauge vid HERE

Enjoy folks

[celi_gt_racer]

MORE VIDS on the street... i cant wait... lol

[OOBE]

Yeah, I am desperate to see it on the street, haha. It's weird seeing the boost gauge go up in boost...I am not used to that sught. It's not the usual like a turbo that you have spool it up and then see the gauge break vacuum and start showing boost build-up, LOL.

[FAQdaWorld]

Thats whats great about sc'ers... boost ON DEMAND

[jgreening]

Yeah, I am desperate to see it on the street, haha. It's weird seeing the boost gauge go up in boost...I am not used to that sught. It's not the usual like a turbo that you have spool it up and then see the gauge break vacuum and start showing boost build-up, LOL.
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I agree with this. You are getting alot of boost in neutral with no load on the car. I usually get about 1-2psi. I wouldn't guess that a supercharger would be that much different from a turbo in that regard. Makes me wonder if something unusual isn't going on but I am not very knowledgable about this topic.

[Coomer]

Jay, a 4A-GZE supercharger's boost is based strictly on RPM, since the supercharger is hooked to a belt that's hooked to the crank. The faster the crank spins, the faster the supercharger's internals go, producing more boost.

[jgreening]

Jay, a 4A-GZE supercharger's boost is based strictly on RPM, since the supercharger is hooked to a belt that's hooked to the crank. The faster the crank spins, the faster the supercharger's internals go, producing more boost.
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The part that I don't understand is that a turbo requires engine LOAD to create boost in the positive boost system. You can rev the engine higher and make more exhaust gases but the boost at idle remains very low.

It doesn't really make sense to me why a turbo (which simply reroutes pressurized exhaust gases back into the intake) requires engine load to create positive manifold pressure while a supercharger (which pushes ambient air into the intake through a simple compressor spun by the crank) does not. I would appreciate further explanation.

Edit: Here is my guess: I think the extra exhaust gasses at higher RPM's with a turbo are miniscule at idle compared to the exhaust gasses that are created when the engine is under load. In that regard, the turbo isn't really "pushing" the air very fast because the exhaust gases are not as plentiful while in neutral as they are when faster and hotter combustion is required to move the car. On the other hand, the supercharger simply uses RPM's to pressurize the system. It really doesn't make a difference if the engine has more load or not since the compressor is driven by the crank rather than turbine of the turbo.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jul 25, 2005 - 11:59 PM

[FAQdaWorld]

my guess would be that you arent reving long enough to actually build that much boost? I dunno, i get fuzzy around there, an explanation would be great.


-FAQ

[Sev408]

good job bro, i remember it was like a year ago when i talked to you the first time when you started. Time sure flies.

Anyway your sliping problem maybe caused if you bought a new flywheel and you did not clean the face off with brakefluid. Flywheels come with a protective cover on them that needs to be whiped away.

[Coomer]

Edit: Here is my guess: I think the extra exhaust gasses at higher RPM's with a turbo are miniscule at idle compared to the exhaust gasses that are created when the engine is under load.  In that regard, the turbo isn't really "pushing" the air very fast because the exhaust gases are not as plentiful while in neutral as they are when faster and hotter combustion is required to move the car.  On the other hand, the supercharger simply uses RPM's to pressurize the system.  It really doesn't make a difference if the engine has more load or not since the compressor is driven by the crank rather than turbine of the turbo.
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I think that's pretty much right on. Hopefully one of the engine geniuses can chime in and provide a definitive answer though.

[WannabeGT4]

Jay, a 4A-GZE supercharger's boost is based strictly on RPM, since the supercharger is hooked to a belt that's hooked to the crank. The faster the crank spins, the faster the supercharger's internals go, producing more boost.
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The part that I don't understand is that a turbo requires engine LOAD to create boost in the positive boost system. You can rev the engine higher and make more exhaust gases but the boost at idle remains very low.

It doesn't really make sense to me why a turbo (which simply reroutes pressurized exhaust gases back into the intake) requires engine load to create positive manifold pressure while a supercharger (which pushes ambient air into the intake through a simple compressor spun by the crank) does not. I would appreciate further explanation.

Edit: Here is my guess: I think the extra exhaust gasses at higher RPM's with a turbo are miniscule at idle compared to the exhaust gasses that are created when the engine is under load. In that regard, the turbo isn't really "pushing" the air very fast because the exhaust gases are not as plentiful while in neutral as they are when faster and hotter combustion is required to move the car. On the other hand, the supercharger simply uses RPM's to pressurize the system. It really doesn't make a difference if the engine has more load or not since the compressor is driven by the crank rather than turbine of the turbo.
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The turbo doesn't reroute exhaust gasses into the intake. It uses the exhaust gasses to spin the exhaust turbine which is connected by a shaft to the compressor turbine. Super and turbo chargers both suck in and pressurize ambient air. Pressure is created when you're super/turbo charger is forcing more air into the intake than the engine requires. In neutral there is limited resistance to the flow of the intake charge therefore boost will not be generated as much. It is much more difficult to build boost with out resistance when using a turbo. But just like you guys said a Supercharger is driven by the crank which won't require the same type of resistance to build boost since the pulleys can be sized differently to allow for boost when the engine is not under load.

EDIT: Hope that makes sense now.

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Jul 26, 2005 - 10:59 AM

[celicast3sgte]

turbos dont nessecarily use just the exhaust gasses to spin the turbine, its actually 80% of the heat from those gasses is what is spinning the turbo. so if you think about it the engine is much hotter under load that at idle and there you have it. More boost under load

[celi_gt_racer]

I say .. do away w/ the tech talk on Turbo vs. S/C ... AND LETS SEE SOME MORE VIDEOS!!!

[WannabeGT4]

turbos dont nessecarily use just the exhaust gasses to spin the turbine, its actually 80% of the heat from those gasses is what is spinning the turbo. so if you think about it the engine is much hotter under load that at idle and there you have it. More boost under load
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I've heard this said at least twice now (might have been you that said it the first time) but I've never seen it in print. I don't doubt you, but I'd just like to know your source. Maybe it's just assumed that with exhaust gas comes heat so none of the articles I've read mention it playing such a drastic role. I'm simply curious as to were you read this.

[Predator]

turbos dont nessecarily use just the exhaust gasses to spin the turbine, its actually 80% of the heat from those gasses is what is spinning the turbo. so if you think about it the engine is much hotter under load that at idle and there you have it. More boost under load

how can heat be converted into kinetic energy unless you use some kind of steam engine or something like that

[celicast3sgte]

think of it as the heat is assisting the gasses move quicker, you know the physics of heat right? it always tranfers the movement of energy to whats colder than the heated area which would be the end of the exhaust so the hotter the air the more it has a need to reach the end. It made sense to me when i was explained this if im totally wrong its cool i just thought it made sense, as for my source i cant remember anymore.

[Rjb23]

Jet engines use heat to spin a turbine which pushes air so I guess a turbo would work the same way.

And why would steam push a turbine any faster than hot exhaust, its still hot air.

This post has been edited by Rjb23: Jul 26, 2005 - 10:38 PM

[celi_gt_racer]

no my good sir, steam is not air... it is water heated up until it is in vapor form... lol

[Predator]

no my good sir, steam is not air... it is water heated up until it is in vapor form... lol

lol, i know, what I meant was that a steam engine can "pick up" excess heat from a engine etc and convert that heat energy into movement. I can't think of many other things that are able to do that.

think of it as the heat is assisting the gasses move quicker, you know the physics of heat right? it always tranfers the movement of energy to whats colder than the heated area which would be the end of the exhaust so the hotter the air the more it has a need to reach the end. It made sense to me when i was explained this if im totally wrong its cool i just thought it made sense, as for my source i cant remember anymore

Yes, the heat is always transferred from a warmer object to a colder one and not the other way around (unless you add energy to do so), though this doesn't affect the air, just the heat it contains.

Jet engines use heat to spin a turbine which pushes air so I guess a turbo would work the same way.

a turbo and a jet engine isn't working in the exact same way.

As the jet engines fuel is ignited it the air is heated and it expands, the air is then pushed backwards onto the turbine fan, the turbine fan is connected to the compressor in the front which suck more air into the engine and it starts all over again.

but in the turbo the exhausts is already heated as it reaches the turbo and therefore it won't expand more, and this is why it can't work the same way as a jet engine.

[FAQdaWorld]

Me and a buddy down at the shop figured out the axle problem. (we think), so it is very streetable now. Body work starts in a week or two, and then fmic and new clutch / crank pulley. And then there will be some new video's posted

[soulshadow]

Wow that is tottaly Awesome! A 4agze in a 6g, have you got to the part where you can Dyno it yet? I want to see how much power that engine is willing to pull!

[[Freemantle]]

I'd love to see this car launch. I take it from the markings that this thing is LSD equipped?

Heated gas takes up more volume. A quantity of gas at a higher temperature will always attempt to occupy more space than the same quantity of gas at a lower temperature. When there is no new space to occupy, then the heated gas will exert more pressure than the cooler gas.

This is PV=nRT.

In both situations, V, n, and R are constant. Therefore, if T increases, P must increase to balance the equation.

Same applies for your statements of "pressure under load". And engine at 5000 rpms and low load is moving a lower quantity of air than an engine at 5000 rpms in third gear. The inertal force of the clutch, transmission, halfshafts, wheels, and curb load increase the force of the engine's vacuum.

PV=nRT

Volume is the cubic area of the manifold - constant.
R is a theoretical constant - constant.
We could assume temperature to be constant, but the inertal forces listed above will make the piston more resistant to motion change - we will assume it to be higher
n is the number of air molecules - this has increased due to the increase of the engine's inertial force.

Pressure must increase due to the increase in Temperature and Number of Air Molecules.

[/nerd voice]

[tomazws]

O_o

I'd love to see this car launch. I take it from the markings that this thing is LSD equipped?

Heated gas takes up more volume. A quantity of gas at a higher temperature will always attempt to occupy more space than the same quantity of gas at a lower temperature. When there is no new space to occupy, then the heated gas will exert more pressure than the cooler gas.

This is PV=nRT.

In both situations, V, n, and R are constant. Therefore, if T increases, P must increase to balance the equation.

Same applies for your statements of "pressure under load". And engine at 5000 rpms and low load is moving a lower quantity of air than an engine at 5000 rpms in third gear. The inertal force of the clutch, transmission, halfshafts, wheels, and curb load increase the force of the engine's vacuum.
PV=nRT

Volume is the cubic area of the manifold - constant.
R is a theoretical constant - constant.
We could assume temperature to be constant, but the inertal forces listed above will make the piston more resistant to motion change - we will assume it to be higher
n is the number of air molecules - this has increased due to the increase of the engine's inertial force.

Pressure must increase due to the increase in Temperature and Number of Air Molecules.

[/nerd voice]
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