injectors 7afte, will these work? Options

[dans_st]

will these injectors work on my 94 ST 7afte? i know that i need high inpedance, these come with the clips so i figured i could just splice them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...sspagename=WDVW

[lagos]

thats a little too much fuel ... 440s is the most u would ever want

[playr158]

i'm goin to get a set of
RC440 injectors universal....

for my 7afte project and thats goin to run upwards of 12psi or even more then 15psi

[nik]

there are 4age injector that are high impedence that should work and there 2+ times bigger than the stock 7afe ones there 290cc good enough for 200whp max

[dans_st]

I know that these are more fuel than I would need right now but I am also planning on doing stand-alone FMU and in a few months doiing a 4AG big port head with GZE pistons, and I wanted to have enough fuel so that later I could use even with my future mods and won't have to dish out more cash on another set, sorry I didn't include all the details before.
what i don't really know is if the injector in the auction are high or low inpedance? And would these be a problem even after I do my other mods?

[nik]

I know that these are more fuel than I would need right now but I am also planning on doing stand-alone FMU and in a few months doiing a 4AG big port head with GZE pistons, and I wanted to have enough fuel so that later I could use even with my future mods and won't have to dish out more cash on another set, sorry I didn't include all the details before.
what i don't really know is if the injector in the auction are high or low inpedance? And would these be a problem even after I do my other mods?
[right][snapback]311153[/snapback][/right]

i would ask the seller

the 7afe runs high imped

nice to see more people wanting to go the 7agte route

[dans_st]

Thanks for your help guys, i just bought some RC engineering high impedence 550cc injectors for an integra type-R they should work fine I just need to find the clips to wire them in.

[nik]

Thanks for your help guys, i just bought some RC engineering high impedence 550cc injectors for an integra type-R they should work fine I just need to find the clips to wire them in.
[right][snapback]311263[/snapback][/right]

how much? i hope those fit

[playr158]

wow you have tons of balls 550?

i mean crap i'll be running the most PSI on a 6gc 7afte that i know of and i'm only planning on 440s

[nik]

wow you have tons of balls 550?

i mean crap i'll be running the most PSI on a 6gc 7afte that i know of and i'm only planning on 440s
[right][snapback]311303[/snapback][/right]

what psi is that?

[OOBE]

Yeah, what psi is that?

Most I ran on my stock injectors was 12 PSI and even though the EGTs climbed to the max on the gauge, engine survived, haha.

[playr158]

15psi or more

we'll see when i get the turbo on my motor

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 12, 2005 - 1:57 PM

[OOBE]

What are you stuffing the engine with?

[playr158]

all sorts of forged goodies

[OOBE]

Hell yeah!

[nik]

all sorts of forged goodies
[right][snapback]311651[/snapback][/right]

like what puater rods, forged pistons, and .......

thats about all unless your going custom crank

what about the tranny.... guessing stock

i'm all about the details its not good enough for me when someone say something so vag(sp)

[playr158]

not really i workin on tranny options right now.....was thinking about a 4age tranny but not sure about it yet
and there is nothing wrong with the 7afe crank nik it should be able to hold up

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 12, 2005 - 9:48 PM

[nik]

not really i workin on tranny options right now.....was thinking about a 4age tranny but not sure about it yet
and there is nothing wrong with the 7afe crank nik it should be able to hold up
[right][snapback]311759[/snapback][/right]

wow really ....... i know that **** aready but have you seen anyone push the crank pass 300whp and 8500 rpm

how do you even know the crank can hold up. Quit your bs you dont even know yoru just guessing


This post has been edited by nik: Jul 13, 2005 - 10:42 AM

[playr158]

wow since a 7afe can really do that NIK

....... i know that **** aready but have you seen anyone push the crank pass 300whp and 8500 rpm

way to go!

[nik]

wow since a 7afe can really do that NIK

....... i know that **** aready but have you seen anyone push the crank pass 300whp and 8500 rpm

way to go!
[right][snapback]311939[/snapback][/right]

dude you me some times

[playr158]

yea i know lol


ok realistically.....
the crank will be fine.....
the rods and pistons are forged they are fine

a more main concern would be rod and head bolts

[doGGy]

should be able ???

Oh yea..... i can only see how STOCK 115 hp engine crank can take abuse of 15 psi, 250 whp...... and high revs.....

oh yea......

I can imagine..... all the pieces flying around after the big BOOOm.....

not really i workin on tranny options right now.....was thinking about a 4age tranny but not sure about it yet
and there is nothing wrong with the 7afe crank nik it should be able to hold up
[right][snapback]311759[/snapback][/right]

[doGGy]

Ever thought about gaskets? About Valve springs? About main/rod bearings? About piston rings? or you think REALISTICLY they will hold up.... Yea, they will hold up 1000 or another 500 miles but after this?

The main thing on ANY setup is Tune up. You can get HIGH hp's on ANY stock engine with turbo setup, the main key is TUNE UP. Perfect ignition/air fuel mixture - perfect EMS, and you are ready to go.... without this - you can put any forged stuff to your engine and hope they will give ya high HP's, but if your setup wount be running good managment system no forged stuff wil help...

yea i know lol


ok realistically.....
the crank will be fine.....
the rods and pistons are forged they are fine

a more main concern would be rod and head bolts
[right][snapback]311949[/snapback][/right]

[playr158]

"Ever thought about gaskets? About Valve springs? About main/rod bearings? About piston rings? or you think REALISTICLY they will hold up.... Yea, they will hold up 1000 or another 500 miles but after this?"

yes i have and its all already planned out
i'm basically rebuilding this motor with all new stuff ground up (rings come with the pistons doggy

[nik]

yes i have and its all already planned out
i'm basically rebuilding this motor with all new stuff ground up (rings come with the pistons doggy
[right][snapback]311960[/snapback][/right]

no they dont some companies include them on piston purchases but you can change them out to fit your appalication

i know i've seen it before but what are you doing to the motor in detail?

[playr158]

i stand corrected
i'm looking for 525cc injectors or 550cc injectors
from various places....

http://www.sthperformance.com/store/product.php?p=61#

http://www.importparts.com/shop/product_in...7d5996d11652904

http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?p...uel%20Injectors

http://www.forcedinductions.com/product6.htm

[dans_st]

[quote=nik,Jul 11, 2005 - 3:09 PM]
[quote=dans_st,Jul 11, 2005 - 2:39 PM]Thanks for your help guys, i just bought some RC engineering high impedence 550cc injectors for an integra type-R they should work fine I just need to find the clips to wire them in.
[right][snapback]311263[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]



Also I know that this is way too much fuel for a 7AFE my engine also has a turbo so it isn't outrageously too much fuel as it in right now-BUT i can turn it down with an stand-alone EMS and i will be needing more fuel when i get all of my mods done. at which time my engine will be basically a 7AGTE and have more fuel needs.

[dans_st]

[quote=nik,Jul 11, 2005 - 3:09 PM]
[quote=dans_st,Jul 11, 2005 - 2:39 PM]Thanks for your help guys, i just bought some RC engineering high impedence 550cc injectors for an integra type-R they should work fine I just need to find the clips to wire them in.
[right][snapback]311263[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
RC says that the injectors I need are SL9-550's which is the same as an ITR And I don't need a harness or clips


Also I know that this is way too much fuel for a 7AFE my engine also has a turbo so it isn't outrageously too much fuel as it in right now-BUT i can turn it down with an stand-alone EMS and i will be needing more fuel when i get all of my mods done. at which time my engine will be basically a 7AGTE and have more fuel needs.

[nik]

[quote=dans_st,Jul 15, 2005 - 3:09 PM]
[quote=nik,Jul 11, 2005 - 3:09 PM]
[quote=dans_st,Jul 11, 2005 - 2:39 PM]Thanks for your help guys, i just bought some RC engineering high impedence 550cc injectors for an integra type-R they should work fine I just need to find the clips to wire them in.
[right][snapback]311263[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
RC says that the injectors I need are SL9-550's which is the same as an ITR And I don't need a harness or clips


Also I know that this is way too much fuel for a 7AFE my engine also has a turbo so it isn't outrageously too much fuel as it in right now-BUT i can turn it down with an stand-alone EMS and i will be needing more fuel when i get all of my mods done. at which time my engine will be basically a 7AGTE and have more fuel needs.
[right][snapback]312845[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

what? ok so you found the injectors you need to fit your clips

ok so...... those injectors are big time over kill on your stock 7afe also big for a 180whp 7afte what is your power goal again? yes you can control your injectors with a standalone ems you might have some idealing problems but a good tune can take care of most of that ("i will be needing more fuel when i get all of my mods done. at which time my engine will be basically a 7AGTE and have more fuel needs.") what all are you doing are you going 7afte or 7agte because there is no basically the same there those are 2 way differnent heads and flow rates so can you clear some of this up

[lagos]

" my motor will be the fastest out there because i will have forged stuff in it!!!!!!!!!!! and ill be running a lot of PSI !!!!!!!!!! "


thats basically what youve been saying for a few months now.... what i never hear tho, is what kind of hp goal you have for the motor? you know, different turbos make different power. what wheel hp goal do you plan to reach out of an econo motor that can barely hit 100hp in its stock form?

[playr158]

dan your getting SL9-550's
where did you order from?
and did you talk to RC yourself?
what was your crank hp goal for them?

with about a 250-280 crank hp goal
i think i came out with like 525-550cc injectors
via RC's equation

[dans_st]

I spoke to a few honda/acura people I know and found out that the IT-R was a saturated(high imped.) injector , then I called RC and talked to one of thier techs and he said the SL9-550 was hat fit my car as well as the IT-R with no mods to the injectors, I ended up ordering them through racingdimension.com for 305.69 shipped for the set.

NIK-as for my plans for my engine it is currently a 7AFTE I have a set of ford probe turbo injectors right now and I know that I need more fuel therefore I bought the 550's knowing that as soon as I can put it together I am going to go the 7AGTE route- right now I am working on sourcing all of my parts. as far as what mods I am planning I want to do the a 7A forged bottom-end with 84mm 4agze low compression pistons, for the top end I plan on doing a 4AG big port head with full P&P on everything up top, and possibly going with larger valves anh HKS cams. as for turbo I'm not sure the largest while not having too much lag with alchohol injection.

[nik]

I spoke to a few honda/acura people I know and found out that the IT-R was a saturated(high imped.) injector , then I called RC and talked to one of thier techs and he said the SL9-550 was hat fit my car as well as the IT-R with no mods to the injectors, I ended up ordering them through racingdimension.com for 305.69 shipped for the set.

NIK-as for my plans for my engine it is currently a 7AFTE I have a set of ford probe turbo injectors right now and I know that I need more fuel therefore I bought the 550's knowing that as soon as I can put it together I am going to go the 7AGTE route- right now I am working on sourcing all of my parts. as far as what mods I am planning I want to do the a 7A forged bottom-end with 84mm 4agze low compression pistons, for the top end I plan on doing a 4AG big port head with full P&P on everything up top, and possibly going with larger valves anh HKS cams. as for turbo I'm not sure the largest while not having too much lag with alchohol injection.
[right][snapback]313721[/snapback][/right]

wow 84mm that 3mm over stock i would have gone 83mm max but its your car when you get it done tells us how it turns out

[playr158]

"84mm 4agze low compression pistons"

ummmm 83mm is like the barely safe point.................

[dans_st]

my machine shop told me I could do the 84mm ,but i would definetely need a new radiator or it would overheat. I haven't personally seen it done have many6 of you guys seen problems with a 7A block with this size pistons before? I don't want to seem as though I am a know it all if I have that is just what my research on this has led me to believe that I can do this - but any and all help is appreciated.
I rebuilt this engine last year and that is the most I have been in the bottom end I know NIK and Player158 have been into the internals and I am all ears to you guys' advice

[playr158]

i haven't personally done internals yet i'm still researching the most beneficial setup......and i don't think any has ever done 84mm in a 7afe you would be the first person to try that....

so if you try and it works thats really awesome we would know much more about the strength of the block...
if not then we know how much that it can take and how much it can't

[nik]

my machine shop told me I could do the 84mm ,but i would definetely need a new radiator or it would overheat. I haven't personally seen it done have many6 of you guys seen problems with a 7A block with this size pistons before? I don't want to seem as though I am a know it all if I have that is just what my research on this has led me to believe that I can do this - but any and all help is appreciated.
I rebuilt this engine last year and that is the most I have been in the bottom end I know NIK and Player158 have been into the internals and I am all ears to you guys' advice
[right][snapback]314344[/snapback][/right]

Player158 i dont think has touched his bottom end or even started building his motor maybe gathering parts but thats it

As for me i tore my bottom end apart bored the block new custom pauter rods and 4agze 8.0:1 pistons and had it all balanced i have a bunch of new pic on my camra but havent had a sec to download them yet because i'm in the middle of moving.

[nik]

you could probable bore it to 84 mm and running it but theres no telling if 1000 down the road you have problems with it plus if you boost your putting that much more stress on the block or it could be fine no one here knows the limit to the block at least that i know of. the highest hp reported on a 7a bottom end is 300 by ray hall 7agte 20v

I on the other hand i will be pushing for atleast 350 whp or more but i did minium boring i have been told by my shop that its better to have more there (metal) on the block for stress etc preposess i believe them they have a talon awd drag car that pushes 832 whp will just have to find out

whats your power goal again?

[dans_st]

I don 't neccesarily have a power goal, I just plan on using the best parts I can get, with hopefully the best equipment (block/head) i can put together then just put it on the rollers and tune it and try to get the most I can without spending radical amopunts of cash. my only real goal right now is to get into the 13's on the quarter, then if I can do that and there is room for improvement I will try to do better and go faster. I am also trying to build a RB powered 240sx that I will take to the track but as of right now my celica is my car I drive daily and cruise on the weekends and I just want MORE power from it.

As for the 84mm pistons I am going to do some more research o9n how big I can go and keep reliabiltiy- thanks for the advice if not I would probably have jumped roght into alot of problems down the road- so I'll do some more research and see what is possible and best for my needs

[FallenHero]

you could probable bore it to 84 mm and running it but theres no telling if 1000 down the road you have problems with it plus if you boost your putting that much more stress on the block or it could be fine no one here knows the limit to the block at least that i know of. the highest hp reported on a 7a bottom end is 300 by ray hall 7agte 20v

I on the other hand i will be pushing for atleast 350 whp or more but i did minium boring i have been told by my shop that its better to have more there (metal) on the block for stress etc preposess i believe them they have a talon awd drag car that pushes 832 whp will just have to find out

whats your power goal again?
[right][snapback]314358[/snapback][/right]

Which is why I was thinking the other day... Arent 4age cranks stronger than 7a? I know the 7rib block is probably twice the strength... and rods can be had cheaper. Would a built 4a not be safer than a built 7a?

Overall, I am very interested to see how Nik's engine turns out.

[Kwanza26]

Strength of the crank is not and should not be considered a major issue unless you plan on pushing 300+ whp. I'd say the cranks are plenty tough. It's always the stuff around the crank that fails first (bears, rods, pistons, etc).

Also... 84mm is not gonna be OK. Based on rebuild specs alone, they don't reccomend anything over 82.25mm... 83mm is pushing it... 84... I think you'll be overheating, possibly even stress fracturing the cylinder walls especially if you plan on boost. There isn't a whole lot of meat between the cylinder walls and coolant jackets... These closed deck blocks just aren't too keen on being overbored... since they're already "overbored/stroked" versions of much smaller motors (original A series blocks only were 76mm bore)

[Kwanza26]

Which is why I was thinking the other day... Arent 4age cranks stronger than 7a?  I know the 7rib block is probably twice the strength... and rods can be had cheaper.  Would a built 4a not be safer than a built 7a?

Overall, I am very interested to see how Nik's engine turns out.
[right][snapback]314802[/snapback][/right]

The 4A can handle stress because it's an oversquared design (smaller stroke than bore). The crank and rods take less stress, but a result of that is a poorer torque curve. To compensate, the 7A crank has larger journals (48mm rod/crank journals). Tis also a reason why you don't see many undersquared or even squared V blocks...

I too am happy for nik. Work more... talk less. That's how things get done. Much kudos to nik for doing more and talking less... ;]

[van95st]

I was wondering about those 550cc injectors. If you run to big of an injector could you run into a problem with fuel atomization, if you have to "turn down" the fuel output with a management system? Or would it just open for a shorter duration when filling the cylinder?

[FallenHero]

big injectors do generally have trouble putting out such a small amount of fuel. Or so i read and hear.

[nik]

Which is why I was thinking the other day... Arent 4age cranks stronger than 7a?  I know the 7rib block is probably twice the strength... and rods can be had cheaper.  Would a built 4a not be safer than a built 7a?

Overall, I am very interested to see how Nik's engine turns out.
[right][snapback]314802[/snapback][/right]

The 4A can handle stress because it's an oversquared design (smaller stroke than bore). The crank and rods take less stress, but a result of that is a poorer torque curve. To compensate, the 7A crank has larger journals (48mm rod/crank journals). Tis also a reason why you don't see many undersquared or even squared V blocks...

I too am happy for nik. Work more... talk less. That's how things get done. Much kudos to nik for doing more and talking less... ;]
[right][snapback]314862[/snapback][/right]

nice new pics are up inte 7agte diary getting close to installing it but i'm going to HIN so it has to wait for a few weeks

[normality78]

ok, back to injectors

How about using 4EFTE injector? its 295cc high impedance injector. But according to some 4EFTE owners, the injector maxed out on 160whp. (read on pg1, 290cc can support up to 200whp)

Im targetting 180whp but i do not want to use 440 as im only using emanage to control. I do know too big injector do have problem in idling or providing low amount of fuel on closed loop

[presure2]

ok, back to injectors

How about using 4EFTE injector? its 295cc high impedance injector. But according to some 4EFTE owners, the injector maxed out on 160whp. (read on pg1, 290cc can support up to 200whp)

Im targetting 180whp but i do not want to use 440 as im only using emanage to control. I do know too big injector do have problem in idling or providing low amount of fuel on closed loop

actually, 290s will not support 200whp...the supra 315CC injectors are only good for ~190-195..
for a 180whp target i would look for somthing in the range of 360cc

[normality78]

yeah, im using 360cc now which is frm GZE. but god damn it. the guy who done my turbokit doesnt tell me its low impedance until when i go for emanage tuning, found out why issit on close loop i was able to control my fuel at all

[doGGy]

On my old 7AFTE i used Ford Probe Turbo 360cc injectors. pushed 219hp at the crank and injectors where about 70% maxed out (on emanage).