Censorship, Your thoughts? Options

[mr_dude]

I wrote a poll for fun. Some people took it very seriously, and were offended not so much by the poll itself, but by the idea that it might spawn dissenting opinions. Presure closed it. I was pretty amazed given the amount of political flaming and argumentation that took place last year, which, as far as I know didn't result in any serious emotional damage. The unilateral decision to silence the topic was unnerving, but props to Presure for not deleting it altogether.

So here's my serious poll. It's truly out of interest for what people think. I don't care that my topic was closed, I don't need a web forum to crack jokes about things that don't matter. But any intelligent and concise thoughts people have I'd be intrigued to read.

[presure2]

ok, ill be the first one to reply to this.
yes, i closed your topic, not the only one, BTW
there will be PLENTY more too, the way things go 'round here.
EVERYONE needs to take a step back, and just quit the usless bullcrap.
then, there wont be any NEED for closing topics, deleting threads ect.
you wanna bicker and fight, go do it on otug or whatever. no more here.
this site is supossed to be for LEARNING, sharing info and ideas, and helping each other out. not whos got the biggest rack, or whos screwed in theyre car, or any of that BS.
/rant.
carry on
ohh...and BTW
just cause this is off topic, DONT mean you can post whatever you want here.
read the rules, be respectful of them, and everything is cool.

Mr. dude:
i didnt close the topic cause you started it. dont take it as a personal attack, we've have more than one of those types of thread before, and it almost ALWAYS turns ugly, like that one did. so i put a stop to it, end of discussion.

[Consynx]

Darwin rules. . .

[shin]

i support manny's decision. it's about time this forum get a good clean up. but seriously, like me, i'm in this forum mainly to learn, not that i'm not learning, i did, but it could be better without all the useless and unneccessary posts. just my 0.02

[celicaST]

Darwin rules. . .
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yay for darwin! i always just think of him when i see people riding motorcyles or bikes without helmets, its comforting to think their genes might not be passed on to poor children . but seriously, everyone needs to lighten up, mr_dudes poll other day was just for fun, and so is my poll about hats. i hope no ones offended that i hate angled hats. i understand what your saying presure2 and i try to help others with information related to 6gc on the other forums as much as i can, but i think it should be ok to post topics for fun on off topic. just my thoughts on the issue.

edit: i think a bigger problem than the useless bullcrap is the fact that a lot of people post with "facts" that might not be true. for the information to be helpful, people need to either know for sure what their talking about or not post. for example, i posted in a topic regarding the ability of the 4agze to be bolted on to the stock a246e auto tranny in the ST. someone stated it could be done, but as far as i knew the 4agze flywheel was too large. since i havnt actually performed the swap, i wasnt sure though so i said "i believe" when replying. too many times people state information as if they know it firsthand, whereas in actuality its just heresay.

This post has been edited by celicaST: Aug 5, 2005 - 4:23 PM

[mr_dude]

this site is supossed to be for LEARNING, sharing info and ideas, and helping each other out. not whos got the biggest rack, or whos screwed in theyre car, or any of that BS.

Mr. dude:
i didnt close the topic cause you started it. dont take it as a personal attack, we've have more than one of those types of thread before, and it almost ALWAYS turns ugly, like that one did. so i put a stop to it, end of discussion.
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Well to say that 6gc is about learning (and maybe organizing events and buying/selling) might be missing the social circle that formed in Off Topic, which as far as I can tell is the most frequented area. You can only post so much about a line of cars that started more than a decade ago without incessant reposts (i.e. WHAT SPRINGS SHOULD I PUT ON MY CAR???).

I certainly exploit the learning element of 6gc, but the sense of community has much more value. If the site were to become draconian about post subjects I think the number of users would decline substantially.

Without a doubt I didn't take the topic-closing personally. My assertion was that I was one of the 50% of people on that topic that didn't take anything personally. Because, seriously, it's just the internet. We're all at work, taking short breaks the find out what's going on in the cyber6gc world.

My musing is this: where the line is between acceptable and unacceptable (given the bounds provided by off topic rules). At what point does something become too argumentative? Too pointless? How about the wanted/unwanted attention Natalie, Amy and co get? At some point the subject matter is not what makes waves but the overzealous respondant.

Darwin rules. . .
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but seriously, everyone needs to lighten up, mr_dudes poll other day was just for fun, and so is my poll about hats. i hope no ones offended that i hate angled hats.
but i think it should be ok to post topics for fun on off topic.
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Amen.

[presure2]

My musing is this: where the line is between acceptable and unacceptable (given the bounds provided by off topic rules). At what point does something become too argumentative? Too pointless? How about the wanted/unwanted attention Natalie, Amy and co get? At some point the subject matter is not what makes waves but the overzealous respondant.

its like mom always said:
"if you aint got anything good to say, dont say anything at all."
like i said, you wanna rant endlessly about whether a hatch or coupe look better, go somewhere else. as far as "off topic" being the most frequented part of the site, thats a joke...i mean seriously.
commer takes the time to build us a sweet site, to talk about 6TH GEN CELICAS.
not to argue about whos car is best, or who has sex in theyre car, or ANY of these topics here.
off topic is a place where you can post your usless stuff, yes, but all it takes is a little common sense.
as far as nat, and amy and the others go, that crap is gonna stop too. its ALL gonna stop.
and as for the "off-topic" social circle, 99% of the "so-called" circle are usless to the site anyway, never post anything worthwhile, or contribute to the site in anyway, so AFAIC they can all leave, and not come back, that wouldnt be a bad thing in my eyes.

[playr158]

all hail manny! super mod and kick ass dude!

woooooooooooooooooooot

[Cutrara]

Yeah Manny congrats on the mod status.

[ILuvMyCelica95]

all hail manny! super mod and kick ass dude!

woooooooooooooooooooot
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double woooooooooooooooooot!

[SlowCelica94]

think everyone here is mature enough to self-moderate and not read topics that offend them.

I almost voted that one. Then I realize, that was wishful thinking. Very few people on here are mature enough for an unmodded forum.

Maybe we could take baby steps to get there. Example I don't ****ing like it when I see these *

[tin_foil]

I personally believe in an un-censored site. Only because I think people should be able to find whatever they're looking for here. I believe what presure2 said: "this site is supossed to be for LEARNING, sharing info and ideas, and helping each other out." That's honestly what I use it for. I almost never even come to Off Topic. But I think that people who want the social aspect should be able to find it. As far as people to post stupid or spiteful posts, I think they just attract simalir people and they should be able to bicker all they want.

I personally enjoy intelligent arguments. But sometimes, I'll open up and tread that looks interesting, start reading, and realize the posters don't know what they're talking about, or are saying stupid, pointedly spiteful things, so I just close it, and don't post.

Just remember people, when you post a respoce to someone, you are putting yourself on the same level as them. If you want this site to change for the better, you've got to be the one to do it.

[saleeka]

honestly, im all about censoring what needs to be put to a halt when it comes to direct attacks, totally inapropriate subject matter, ect. However, the Body Style poll getting locked based of the off topic forum rules dosent make sense to me... Yes, people disagreed, but no "words" were exchanged, no real direct attacks towards posters, and to cap it off, the subject matter was directly 6GC related... Also, what happened to the "are you attracted to people who also drive 6gc's" thread??? I post in it one night, and the next moring, nowhere to be found?... dont understand why that dissappeared... If the "Body Style" poll was locked down, why wasnt the "i love getting the drop in Acuras" thread locked up? The person who originally poseted it got TOTALLY dished for being a reckless driver- but so what- they were still singled out and driectly ridiculed for stating what they felt... regardless of your feelings on the subject- they were singled out, and in a much more direct fashion then what the 'body style" poll consisted of... I'm not trying to cause conflict here with what i say, but seriously, all of a sudden its like fascist defacto- if its not popular consensus, its being censored... this site was never like that before... closing a topic before non-certain problems errupt?.... i can think of many a topics that lived through direct intention of butting heads, IE "Pirates Vs. Ninjas"... so whats with the all of a sudden switch in attitude?

[presure2]

the sudden swtich in additude is that I am now a mod.
i was just given moderators duty, and I felt the body style topic was going in the wrong direction , like the "body style" posts ALWAYS do. that wasnt the first.
see, alot of you havent been here very long, so this all seems new, but all this junk has been going on since the site started. well, actually, not since the site STARTED cause is DIDNT EVEN HAVE off topic back then.
listen guys, and gals,...things are GONNA change, whether you like it or not.
so, you can either get with the program, jump on board, and try and help make this site what it SHOULD be...or dont.
your choice.
as far as topics that were started before yesterday, i have no explination for you, as i didnt have mod duty before then.
anyone whos got a problem with what i did, or what i DO, feel free to PM me, and ill give you my reasons.

edited for spelling now as not..lol

This post has been edited by presure2: Aug 6, 2005 - 10:27 AM

[jgreening]

the sudden swtich in additude is that I am not a mod.
i was just given moderators duty, and I felt the body style topic was going in the wrong direction , like the "body style" posts ALWAYS do. that wasnt the first.
see, alot of you havent been here very long, so this all seems new, but all this junk has been going on since the site started. well, actually, not since the site STARTED cause is DIDNT EVEN HAVE off topic back then.
listen guys, and gals,...things are GONNA change, whether you like it or not.
so, you can either get with the program, jump on board, and try and help make this site what it SHOULD be...or dont.
your choice.
as far as topics that were started before yesterday, i have no explination for you, as i didnt have mod duty before then.
anyone whos got a problem with what i did, or what i DO, feel free to PM me, and ill give you my reasons.
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I think your point of view is refreshing and I agree with it wholehartedly. I have one point to make that you will likely agree with. Spirited debates about technical 6gc issues have their place. Although "arguments" and "conflict" might occur, threads like this should be kept open because the CONTENT is helpful to the 6gc enthusiast. Here are a couple examples of the types of thread I am referring to:

Thread #1
Thread #2

Obviously, even threads like this can get out of hand (like the one where people were attacking Kwanza about his "tone" about a week ago). However, I think we should be slow to close a thread because someone correctly provides information and then, for whatever reason, someone else gets his feelings hurt over the answer. As tired as I get of all the useless, overly argumentative, and insane topics, I also get tired of making a post that either corrects misinformation, or simply states a fact, and then someone whining because they have feminine sensitivities. There is nothing wrong with people "toughening up a little".

[celicaST]

^ well put, celicatech is a good example of how this site should operate, just 6gc specific

This post has been edited by celicaST: Aug 6, 2005 - 8:43 AM

[presure2]

j, i totally agree with you.
in a situation like the one you pointed out, i (or we) can just remove those posts that are causing the problem, without closing or deleting the whole thread.
the type of "spirited discussion" your talking about is exactly what i personally would like to see MORE of here, without the childish name calling and bickering.

now i know that its impossible to live in a perfect world, eveyone has feelings and theyre own thoughts and minds here, arguments happen, things of that nature, sometimes you just dont like a person for whatever reason, blah blah, BUT,
(and this is not at ALL at you, j, just a genral statement)
we all should be smart enough to know when to just stop the BS.
99% of the threads on the forums wont be touched, guys. im not here to ruin anyones day, or to piss people off.
i just wanna see the site GROW. and not in the way it has been.
i know most of you here visit other forums, and check out stuff from TONS of other sites, so ill ask you to do this.
goto www.mr2oc.com ...have a poke around, its free to join.
check out the performance and repair section, specificly the mkII 3sgte section...
look at ALL the tech talk.
beautiful.
THATS what i'd like to see this forum grow into.
now i know that we'll never be as tech as that, or have the member base they have, BUT i think if we all took the time to learn a little more about our cars, and how they work, we WOULD be able to enrich the site, and make it a much better place to learn, which is the ultimate goal, IMO.
check out the VW fourms, see how detailed ALL theyre info is, SUPER how to's with LOTS of detailed pics, full explinations on everything you wanna do to those cars. why cant WE be the same??
see what im getting at here guys?

[SlowCelica94]

www.indycarz.com for life yo

[SlowCelica94]

Ok I'll expand on my last post a bit. Why that car forum rocks.

Well it's local. So I know a lot of the guys on it. But it's never censored. And we really get into it some times. I've had 3 PMs of people saying they would kick the **** outta me if they ever meet me. But the freedom of expression is great. We even have a section to post porn. We break down section that are not allowed to be whored (serious discussion and car talk) or else your banned.

That's all. Carry on

[Consynx]

i'd love for this forum to have posts like MR2oc but w/ our member count
as much as i LIKE MR2oc, i hate it too...it's a HUGE HUGE forum, and keeping up with it would mean a full-time job.
I MAY have a way to help...
All Swappers and 5S-FTEs and 7A-FTEs...how many IMs/PMs do you get weekly about anything car related?
i know a reason MR2oc has lots of good posts is because you can ONLY get e-mail addresses on there, and can only PM i think if you help promote the site or something
on 6gc we give AIM, which is kewl to chat, BUT all those questions that i could have posted on here, i asked via-AIM

edited to add a summary:
Summary: Force members to post by ridding of AIM names...PMs aren't something that would go away easily

This post has been edited by Consynx: Aug 6, 2005 - 2:17 PM

[mr_dude]

the sudden swtich in additude is that I am now a mod.

Up until this point I thought it was all a pretty reasonable discussion about what people thought was destructive to a site. Now it seems the measuring stick is what is constructive. If people don't directly learn about their car from a post, it gets deleted... just so we can be like mr2oc and company.

First, I think this goes hand in hand with Saleeka comment about it being rather fascist.

Second, I don't think too many people agree with your attitude that "things should change." I guess Coomer doesn't mind because he's not reigned in his loose cannon. But given the poll results and the number of people who LIKE TO BS on off topic, it seems contrary to the wishes of the community. Or at least something that should be discussed and announced.

Third, it doesn't seem reasonable. Determining what is and is not relevant seems slippery, can we talk about racing parts, recent race events, motorcycle racing, whether or not someone should get a bike, the gnarly bike crash someone saw the other day... How do you want to determine where to draw the line? Having strict progressivist standards, you'll find your mailbox full of "why did my post get deleted and not this other guy's?"

Does Coomer get paid (to keep the site up) based on users or hits?

Your self-proclaimed messianic status is noble but seems a bit misguided.

[jgreening]

the sudden swtich in additude is that I am now a mod.

Up until this point I thought it was all a pretty reasonable discussion about what people thought was destructive to a site. Now it seems the measuring stick is what is constructive. If people don't directly learn about their car from a post, it gets deleted... just so we can be like mr2oc and company.

First, I think this goes hand in hand with Saleeka comment about it being rather fascist.

Second, I don't think too many people agree with your attitude that "things should change." I guess Coomer doesn't mind because he's not reigned in his loose cannon. But given the poll results and the number of people who LIKE TO BS on off topic, it seems contrary to the wishes of the community. Or at least something that should be discussed and announced.

Third, it doesn't seem reasonable. Determining what is and is not relevant seems slippery, can we talk about racing parts, recent race events, motorcycle racing, whether or not someone should get a bike, the gnarly bike crash someone saw the other day... How do you want to determine where to draw the line? Having strict progressivist standards, you'll find your mailbox full of "why did my post get deleted and not this other guy's?"

Does Coomer get paid (to keep the site up) based on users or hits?

Your self-proclaimed messianic status is noble but seems a bit misguided.
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Wow...great use of the english language but I think you might be overreacting a little....Manny just wants everyone to stay on-topic a little more.

Anyway, I love the word "messianic".....I plan to use that if you don't mind.

[mr_dude]

Wow...great use of the english language

Thanks, wish my GRE scores reflected that...

but I think you might be overreacting a little....Manny just wants everyone to stay on-topic a little more.

Meh, perhaps I'm misreading the severity of his words. I don't think being on topic is wholly the issue. My poll was closed because it was argumentative, however on topic. I think we're worried about the off topic but harmless posts and the on topic but debatable subjects. If people can get angry over body styles, they can get angry over suspension, three-stage turbo, street racing...

Anyway, I love the word "messianic".....I plan to use that if you don't mind

Haha, by all means. Not too often do you get to use it, but if you're young and live with your parents there are definite opportunities.

[presure2]

Your self-proclaimed messianic status is noble but seems a bit misguided

and i never "procalimed" to be anything, just stating a fact. if i had been a mod all this time, alot more of the usless posts WOULD have been closed, and all the hatefull stuff that has been being said between members would have been deleted.
THAT was my point of this line:

the sudden swtich in additude is that I am now a mod.

you can use all the fancy words you'd like,
however you slice it,
things ARE gonna change.
im not a loose cannon at all, mr dude, i know EXACTLY what im doing.
like i said a few posts ago

99% of the threads on the forums wont be touched, guys. im not here to ruin anyones day, or to piss people off.
i just wanna see the site GROW. and not in the way it has been.

the thread you posted has been disscused to death among most of the members here SEVERAL times, and it ALWAYS has ended the same, with a mod having to delete or close the thread.
THATS why i closed it. i know where it was going.

If people don't directly learn about their car from a post, it gets deleted... just so we can be like mr2oc and company

thats not my point AT ALL.
this is not a mesuring stick of how things should be or whatever, its moving the forum along and stoping the usless nonsense thats been going on the past several months.

First, I think this goes hand in hand with Saleeka comment about it being rather fascist.

see thats the problem. im not being "fascist" or anything OF the sort.
im not saying you guys cant have fun and post your "off topic" stuff here in off topic.
what im saying, is that things DO need to change around here.
and they will. whether you agree with it personally or not really dont matter. and to be honest, what i personally think dont matter either. its WHAT COOMER WANTS, period.
this is a family-oriented site, #1 thats designed to be able to be views be anyone, of any age.
THATS why the filters are there, THATS why theres no porn allowed.
if you signed up to be a member here, you agreed to those terms.

slowceli94: theres a REASON this site isnt "free range, do whatever you want" because THATS HOW COOMER WANTS IT dont you get it?

But it's never censored. And we really get into it some times. I've had 3 PMs of people saying they would kick the **** outta me if they ever meet me. But the freedom of expression is great. We even have a section to post porn. We break down section that are not allowed to be whored (serious discussion and car talk) or else your banned.

this site has had the swear filter on since day ONE of this site, as well as the no porn rule. its always been this way, always will be.

look guys, like i said, im not here to be the bad guy, or anything of the sort.
i just wanna see the site get better, and be more about what it should be, more in focus, more refined.
mr. dude like i initially said in one of my first posts.
i didnt close the topic because of the subject nature,
i closed it because i know exactly where all these coupe vs' hatch topics end up.
if you dont like that fact, im sorry.

If people can get angry over body styles, they can get angry over suspension, three-stage turbo, street racing...

your totally right, and i agree, and when it happens, the idiotic people that want to acutally argue can do so, ill just remove the content of theyre posts, and keep whats acutally usefull.
again just to be clear:

99% of the threads on the forums wont be touched, guys

and i mean that. i agree that we need a place to blow off some steam, BS and all that crap, i agree. but when people start attacking each other, namecalling bickering ect, i WILL close the threads, or delete the posts, or whatever needs to be done.
now, by saying that, im not saying your particular thread was like that, cause it wasnt. yet.
if you'd been around since the beginning of this thing, like myself, j, and some of the others here, i think you'd understand my point of view a little better.
things really need to change. and when i say that i dont neccicerily mean in off topic, i mean the whole site in general. we need to ALL, AS A COMMUNITY try and make this site better.

This post has been edited by presure2: Aug 6, 2005 - 5:03 PM