Another 3s swap problem, driver's side axle pops out Options

[celica3sgte]

For reference, I have a 2nd gen 3sgte with 92 mr2 lsd tranny. I'm using st185/mr2 hybrid axles. I finally put my rear motor mount in yesterday and the motor is sitting very solid now. The problem is, now my driver's side axle keeps popping out, and I lose all the tranny fluid. I know a couple of you had problems with these axles breaking cv joints on this setup. I definetly think that this axle setup is too short now. I always noticed that the outer cv joint is very stretched on both sides. I was doing some research and found out that the mr2 wheel base is 94.5 inches and the 94 celica wheelbase is 99.9 inches. I think this is the problem. Before it wasn't a problem b/c the motor was shaking with the axles and it wouldn't pop out, now with it being solid, the axle can easily shift out of the tranny. Any of your thoughts are welcome.

And one more thing. Does anyone know how long an st205 axle is. The compressed and extended lengths?

This post has been edited by celica3sgte: Aug 17, 2005 - 4:48 PM

[lagos]

not sure if this will help you or not, but the BGB says to use red locktite on the axel bolts and TQ them to spec.

[Rjb23]

not sure if this will help you or not, but the BGB says to use red locktite on the axel bolts and TQ them to spec.
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Do the axles bolt in or are they the kind with the lock rings?

If its the kind with the lock rings maybe your rings are worn out and you need new ones, or they aren't locking.

[lagos]

not sure if this will help you or not, but the BGB says to use red locktite on the axel bolts and TQ them to spec.
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Do the axles bolt in or are they the kind with the lock rings?

If its the kind with the lock rings maybe your rings are worn out and you need new ones, or they aren't locking.
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the mr2 turbo and alltac ones are the bolt in kind. the gt ones have those snaprings

[Rjb23]

Yea my ST has the snap in kind too.

So if the bolts are in there there is no way they are gonna come out right? I mean if they are bolted into the tranny, then they have the nut on the end that holds them to the wheel hub The are not going anywhere unless the bolts come out or break.

BTW here is the wheel base for the st185
Wheelbase: 2525mm

Front track: 1475mm

Rear track: 1445mm

Don't know what that is in inches.

[Defgeph]

are you sure you're using the correct inners ?

DEF

[celica3sgte]

The only thing that bolts in are the outside of the axle to the hub. They are both bolted well, and then have a codder pin on top of that. I'm using the innershafts that came with the tranny and they fit good, so I'm pretty sure they are correct, it's a perfect fit. . I took a pic of how much each cv joint is stretched and wish I would have seen this before.

The first pic is the driver's side which keeps popping out. This side has the snap ring on the part of the axle which goes into the tranny. So this thing isn't just sliding out, it's being forced out.








This post has been edited by celica3sgte: Aug 17, 2005 - 8:28 PM

[97lestyousay]

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This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Apr 4, 2012 - 4:51 AM

[Rjb23]

I would check the pop ring that holds the axles in, it may not be seating right.

What mounts are you using?

[celica3sgte]

I'm using st isulators for front and rear that came with the car's crossmemberwith mr2 rear mount(bolted to tranny) and gt front mount. An mr2 driver's side mount and Gt passenger side mount. I'm pretty sure that this hybrid axle setup that everyone is using is about 3" short on the driver's side. Where as if it wasn't short it would have no problems b/c it wouldn't be stretched like you see in the picture.

This post has been edited by celica3sgte: Aug 18, 2005 - 4:58 AM

[celica3sgte]

I just thought of something. The Mr2 tranny, v-6 camry tranny, and solara tranny all have the e153 tranny code, correct? The solara and camry both have a wheel base of 105 inches. Does anyone know what the inner shaft of these two vehicles looks like? Would the inner shaft fit into my mr2 tranny? B/c it would have to be longer than the mr2 inner shaft. Someone who owns a 99 solara is gonna catch me under their car today taking pictures and wonder what the hell i'm doing.

[Rjb23]

I'm just wondering why your having problems with it and sphinx has the same set up but not the same problems.

Yeah they are all e153 trannies, the st185 tranny is also the e153 but it is e153p, different differential, the differentials may be different on the others too.

My mounts I have the st185 mounts all the way around and a custom mount for the front mount.

[Rjb23]

Didn't you have the 91 camry v6 axle shafts and they were the same as the st185 ones?

Are you using the st185 hubs?

[ems3s]

Its got nothing to do with mounts, hubs or that type thing it. I've mentioned this before. The mr2 inner shafts come in many diffent configs. I had this same prob.

The circlip on the end can be various lenghts from the end. The rumour (not comfirmed 100%) that it can be 5mm or 12mm from the end. The circlip must not be sitting correctly.

If you can pop the shaft in and their is still a gap and it won't go any further than the clip is too close to the end of the shaft.

Try to find another shaft but if you can't you'll hace to cut a groove in it to put the circlip in the right spot like i had to do.

[ems3s]

Rjb23 i don't understand how you could be using a st185 mounnt on the rear, it doesn't fit period.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, as i really curios how this is possible.

[Rjb23]

Its got nothing to do with mounts, hubs or that type thing it. I've mentioned this before. The mr2 inner shafts come in many diffent configs. I had this same prob.

The circlip on the end can be various lenghts from the end. The rumour (not comfirmed 100%) that it can be 5mm or 12mm from the end.  The circlip must not be sitting correctly.

If you can pop the shaft in and their is still a gap and it won't go any further than the clip is too close to the end of the shaft.

Try to find another shaft but if you can't you'll hace to cut a groove in it to put the circlip in the right spot like i had to do.
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Did you get the same year axles as the tranny? Thats kind along the lines of what I was thinking earlier, but I thought maybe the clip was bad and not holding the axle in.

How long did it take you guys to get your mr2 axles, I had mine on order from autozone for 2 weeks canceled that (it was supposed to take 5 days) ordered them from advance auto monday and payed extra for 2nd day shipping and still nothing.

They are the only things I'm waiting on before I can drive the car.

3s did this happen while you were driving it or when you let it off of the jack?

[ems3s]

It happened to me when i was just trying to trial fit the shafts.

I had a feeling it would happen as i was warned that there are many different shaft configs.

None of the wreckers in australia can confirm what size shaft or circlip location matches what year. In fact not even toyota were aware of the differnces.

Is the luck of the draw, with mr2 shafts. Maybe the mr2 gurus know but i'm tired of researching this matter, that's why i gave up and took the shaft to shop to modify.

[Rjb23]

I may be doing that if mine don't fit right. I'm not waiting another month just for axles.

[ems3s]

As long as the shaft diameter is right,the clip location can be modified.

I'm still curious as to how you used an st185 mount on the rear and crossmember if i read correctly.

[Rjb23]

I used all st185 mounts and the cross member. I did a custom mount for the front one.

I put the crossmember in before the engine and it bolted right up.

[ems3s]

Are you sure? I tried a st185 x-member and the damn thing wasn't even close. I still have the thing and a rear 185 mount.

I used the orig cross-member (same part n# as 205) with 205 rear mount and bracket.

For the front and right i used gt mounts and bracket (same parts but different n#'s as 205)

For the left i used 205 mount and was lucky enough to have found a 205 bracket.

185 mounts would be fine, for right and left but not front and rear. I thoroughly went thru this on the parts finder program at the toyota dealer confriming this.

[Rjb23]

Yeah I'm sure the engine is in my car now with the st185 mounts and crossmember, its from a 91 clip, I don't think that makes a difference. All I had to do for the front mount was get a custom one made that was shorter.

[sphinx]

I'm just wondering why your having problems with it and sphinx has the same set up but not the same problems.

Yeah they are all e153 trannies, the st185 tranny is also the e153 but it is e153p, different differential, the differentials may be different on the others too.

My mounts I have the st185 mounts all the way around and a custom mount for the front mount.
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Sup everyone. Here's my input.

Just to clarify, he's using MR2 inner shafts and ST185 outer shafts.
I'm using MR2 inner shafts and Camry V6 outer shafts.

I had the same problem. My axels would pop out because they seemed too short. That's exactly what's happening with your car. At first i thought i had the wrong outer shaft, so returned it and got another one, but it was exactly the same. Put it on and the axel still popped out. Then i thought it was the safety clip at the tip of the MR2 inner shaft. Took it off and it seemed a little loose and I could squeeze it easily with my fingers. So i ordered a new one from Toyota, slapped it on, put in the axel, and it still popped out. I gave up that day, and decided to try again the next day. The next morning, i popped the axel back in, and it didn't pop out anymore.

Everything worked fine, but i notice that i was still leaking tranny oil. And now the problem that I'm having is that the axel doesn't pop out of the tranny, but it seems like it wants to. It looks like someone is pulling the !@#$ out of it. When i get under the car, i'm left with a 1/8 of an inch gap between the axel seal and the axel, hence where my oil is leaking from.

The only solution that I can think of is to fabricate some sort of spacer to insert between the inner shaft and outer shaft. Have it be like about 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch thick.

I'm going to try and attemp this within the next couple of weeks when i get a chance.

Let me know if you guys don't understand any of this. I tend not to make any sense sometimes.

sphinx

[Rjb23]

Are the solara inners the same I wonder?

[Rjb23]

Ok I looked it up and the 92-96 camry wheel base is 103", solara 105", Where ours are 99.9", where the mr2 is 94.5.

Now will the 92-96 camry axles seperate into to peices and bolt up to the mr2 turbo axles? And if they do what will the length of them be?

Also how different are the st185 axles from the mr2 axles?

This post has been edited by Rjb23: Aug 20, 2005 - 12:41 AM

[Rjb23]

I just got off the phone with the mechanic at XAT and they said they use the mr2 inners, alltrac outers.

Sphinx your problem sounds like what ems was talking about, the pop ring not being in the correct position.

[celica3sgte]

The first time this happened, I pulled the axle out myself on accident when putting the suspension back on. The second time it happened I hit a bump and it came out. We might be able to shed some light on all this if someone has access to solara axles. We need to compare the length from different inner shafts for hte e153 trannies. I think it's definetely too short with the setup I have. It didn't pop out before b/c w/o a rear mount the motor sat over an inch towards the driver's side. I had to force the motor over a little to fit into the mount. So,,, does anyone have access to a bunch of inner shafts?

[DG_Performance]

steve,
i got alltrac complete hubs & axles so if you need something give me a ring....you got my #
why dont you go with the gt axles?
dg

[celica3sgte]

Thanks Dave, I'll give you a ring this weekend. Sphinx that is the exact same idea that i had. I may make a custom mount and that spacer. Here is how my motor sit. Comfortably the rear mount is about 2" toward the driver's side away from the crossmember. I will be making a plate that will be welded to the bottom of the insulator, and also bolted to the crossmember. It is gonna have 3 nuts welded to it so that 3 bolts will bolt to it through the crossmember. This should let the motor sit where it wants and also give it support. I think the passenger mount may be in the wrong place. Something has to be out of alignment. Here are the pics of the st185 and camry outers. They are identical to each other

[sphinx]

Yeah, i'm gonna have to make a spaces for them too.

[Rjb23]

My problem is I can't find mr2 axles. I've tried every where. I have some on order hopefully this place comes through for me.

[ems3s]

celica3sgte the custom mount for the rear that you talking about is exactly what the 205 rear mount is. It is offset to the drivers side like required. remember 205 and 204 crossmembers are one and the same, 205 mounts are direct bolt on. Only difference between the two series is in the rear and drivers side mounts. ie the timing belt side mounts are the same. so it can't be out of whack.

Once you get the correct mounts loosen all of them slightly and then retension when all are lined up. This what i had to do, it now sits dead straight.
You can still get these mounts from toyota japan.

[ZoomZoom]

what year camry outers is that from.
Im using a mr2 inners and alltrac outers and so far so good,
it hasn't pop out yet.
let me know what year camry is that coz im thinking of changing my outers to camry coz I know that the passenger side of mine is little bit short.
Thanks

[celica3sgte]

I believe it's the 92-95 camry outers, but they are the same length as what you have so it won't help you. Wow, ems I didn't know that. Are you able to take a pic for me?

[ems3s]

celica3sgte, I wish I could take some pics of the mount right now but my car is at the workshop 60miles away. Take my word on it though. Cos i tried all sorts of other things like 185 x-member and 185 rear mounts with no luck.

I'll get my car back some time during the next week. I'll take some pics then if your not in a hurry you can see what I mean then, But yeah it is what you need. Here i found this pic on the forum.

You may just be able to work it out the offset on the bottom left mount in the pic.
205 mounts pic

Don't worry about the prices quoted there. He got majorly ripped and they were trd mounts anyway. 205 mounts cost exactly the same as 204's from toyota dealers here in oz so they shouldn't cost much more on special order in N.America.

Hope all this helps, I'll post pics of the mounts on my car as soon as i get it back.

This post has been edited by ems3s: Aug 26, 2005 - 7:31 PM

[celica3sgte]

Awesome work ems. I'll order that thing soon.