our ST's are just slow!, even with the 4age swap its still slow.. Options

[soulshadow]

Went to a racing meet today In faytteville. I saw some really nice cars and a crazy hot looking chic flash for us . I went racing against an nissan (old school car forgot what it was called), and B16 JDM type civic swap. Unfort. lets just say that my car is slow. Lost to both cars. My car is completely stock + stock 4age ST engine (stock) too.

Im at the point where drag racing is out of the question, cause my car is so slow and furthure engine mods are somewhat useless cause Im so poor.

I was thinking somewhere that I might get a GTS and swap it out with a BEAMS motor. I want NA, cause its just less maintence.

Any comments.. (yes! im stupid cause I race on the streets)

[purplegt4]

how bout u put a lil elbow grease into that motor.

[blu94gt]

Duh, I coulda told you an ST was slow lol.

Try some Autocrossing, a little better suited for our cars.

[Dr_Tweak]

Do you have the 1st or 2nd gen silvertop? (Show me a pic of your engine bay and I can tell you).

You don't need to get a GTS to swap in a Beams engine.

[Hanyo]

did you buy that car with that motor in it already? how come you haven't modified it at all?

[Coomer]

My car doesn't seem slow...is it maybe that yours isn't running right due to not using the 4A-GE AFM and a damaged ECU?

Was this Nissan a B13 Sentra SE-R or something? And a B16-powered Civic is lighter and has a more powerful engine.

[rlan214]

if the civic was a hatch you lost cuz our celi is heavier
and if it was old nissan sentra se-r probably had a jdm sr20 swap

[lagos]

even with the 4age swap its still slow

well yeah, its only 40hp more then a normal st. so its a little quicker then a gt, but thats about it. i got a ride in a 4age that was in a 5th gen, it was "quick", but not fast in any way. ... throw a 3s in there and its a whole new car with well over 100HP gain then what you get stock. any 4cly NA car becomes no problem at all to beat.

[Coomer]

even with the 4age swap its still slow

well yeah, its only 40hp more then a normal st. so its a little quicker then a gt, but thats about it. i got a ride in a 4age that was in a 5th gen, it was "quick", but not fast in any way. ... throw a 3s in there and its a whole new car with well over 100HP gain then what you get stock. any 4cly NA car becomes no problem at all to beat.
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I can think of so many N/A 4-cylinder cars that would beat a 3S-GTE-powered sixth gen.

[97sccelica]

even with the 4age swap its still slow

well yeah, its only 40hp more then a normal st. so its a little quicker then a gt, but thats about it. i got a ride in a 4age that was in a 5th gen, it was "quick", but not fast in any way. ... throw a 3s in there and its a whole new car with well over 100HP gain then what you get stock. any 4cly NA car becomes no problem at all to beat.
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I can think of so many N/A 4-cylinder cars that would beat a 3S-GTE-powered sixth gen.
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yeah, those stupid gutted civic hatch backs with a JDM H22 and bolt ons

its just not fair oh well, my car has AC, take that!

honestly if you want your celica to be fast, and do it realativly cheaply, it has to be turboed.

[JoKeRkId613]

slap a turbo on that 4a and some low comp pistons and you're good to go.

[Coomer]

slap a turbo on that 4a and some low comp pistons and you're good to go.
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You don't even necessarily need low compression pistons. Lots of people turbocharge their internally-stock silvertop 4A-GEs...I've seen 190-215 whp dyno graphs at 5-6 PSI with T25s and T28s on silvertop 4A-GEs. The key is proper tuning.

[Mike]

buy a mustang 5.0

[Celica_Fan]

H22A VTEC honda prelude jdm motors 2.2 they go alright what you should do is get rid of the 4A-GE and put a 3S-GE engine in complete with extractors and a straight through and an engine chip it will be bloody fast. Make sure it's the 200 hp beams version.

[sakara]

a normal 4age isn't gonna make much diff in a 6th gen... the car is heavy... now sticking it in my rolla and the rolla will FLY but yea... 3sgte swap is a better choice for the N/A celis, or turbo the 4age... u also gotta remember that the 4age is a high rev engine, so if ur shifting at 6k then ur not getting the full potential... REDLINE THAT BEYOTCH!!

This post has been edited by sakara: Oct 23, 2005 - 9:26 PM

[SSJChar]

just curious, but what were your times, or was this done not at a race strip? itd be good to get a database of times of swaps and mods, to see what mods and swaps make big differences.

[soulshadow]

Its a 4age Silvertop, and yes it is running correctly with a different AFM and damaged (repaired now) ecu. It idles good, runs smooth- a few things I yet have to change (fuel filter) and pulls hard. It tops off at 7.5 and won't go any futher.

Its just that the car is so heavy that with the engine swapped in, it doesn't really make much of a difference. I got my ass kiked by a JDM civic and that was a major let down (swapped), cause I got my ass kiked before by a turbo eclipse GST(when I still had the 7A engine) [even more of a let down]. I feel like without the 3s engines our 6G cars are like crap compared to others and the thing is with the GT models, U don't have to go out and spend a crap load on motor mounts and shift cables, cause thats the only major difference in engine reqs.

Sure motor X is awesome and I could probbaly win. But who the heck is going to challenge me outside of the tracks? Down here everybody is a wimp, and they only do drags. A friend of mine owns an SI 2004 model and when he wanted to race corners. I agreed. Then he saw my engine and said He wants to wait untill he gets his K-pro or some crap thingy for his civic!

Plain and simple, no matter what we do ST's are just SLOW~

I want a good MPG car, not some gas guzzling muscle car that runs low 12's but at the same time eats your paycheck at fill ups.

[Coomer]

It tops off at 7.5 and won't go any futher.

Are you saying you hit fuel cut at 7500 RPM?

[Dr_Tweak]

Turbo it.

[soulshadow]

Yah coomer it tops off at 7.5. But I think I know Y tho. There were like 3-4 wires that I didn't hook up. SPD, Brake, Electrical Idle load, and something else I think.

Its probbaly due to the SPD wire not hooked up to the ECU, cause I thought I might need to do some 120+++ MPH driving.

Turbo, is great but Im too poooor and in debt now. I have to work with whatever I got and improve from a cheap por-ass view.

I have a 3sge AFM, and I am about to go and install it on tuesday.
I just need the rubber piping for the intake cause this is a much bigger AFM. All the wires and the connector does match with it tho, So im thinking that since this thing is much larger it can suck up more air and tell the ECU all at once. I'll wait and see what happens. HIGH-PER. Spark plugs really don't do **** tho.

[nik]

I feel like without the 3s engines our 6G cars are like crap compared to others and the thing is with the GT models, U don't have to go out and spend a crap load on motor mounts and shift cables, cause thats the only major difference in engine reqs.

Plain and simple, no matter what we do ST's are just SLOW~

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we will see not all ST are slow my old turbo 7afte was quick nothing to write home about but beat alot of cars around me 98 GSX, acura rsx type S to name 2 but once the car is finished with the 7agte this st wont be slow at all

This post has been edited by nik: Oct 27, 2005 - 3:15 PM

[Drew-887]

I feel like without the 3s engines our 6G cars are like crap compared to others and the thing is with the GT models, U don't have to go out and spend a crap load on motor mounts and shift cables, cause thats the only major difference in engine reqs.

Plain and simple, no matter what we do ST's are just SLOW~

[right][snapback]348280[/snapback][/right]

we will see not all ST are slow my old turbo 7afte was quick nothing to right home about but beat alot of cars around me 98 GSX, acura rsx type S to name 2 but once the car is finished with the 7agte this st wont be slow at all
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Damn soulshadow you make me feel bad about my ST. That is until I remember Nik's ST. What exactly is a 7agte. Im a newbie so i dont understand what that is. Would soulshadows ST be alot faster if it had a 4agze swap instead?

[jdg371]

Damn soulshadow you make me feel bad about my ST. That is until I remember Nik's ST. What exactly is a 7agte. Im a newbie so i dont understand what that is. Would soulshadows ST be alot faster if it had a 4agze swap instead?
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Yea it would be quicker with the GZE

a 7AGTE is a 7A block mated to a 4AGE Head with 4A internals(not sure) with a turbo for the extra umph

[nik]

Damn soulshadow you make me feel bad about my ST. That is until I remember Nik's ST. What exactly is a 7agte. Im a newbie so i dont understand what that is. Would soulshadows ST be alot faster if it had a 4agze swap instead?
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GO HERE http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=21831

its a big port 4agze head on the 7afe block
the head is fully built 272 cam trd valve train (springs retainer etc)
Stage 2 port and polish with port match 5 angle valve job
block is bored .5 over (81.5mm) with 4agze 8.0:1 pistons that have been coated
pauter 4340 chromoly rods everything balanced and blue printed
6 puck act clutch
sds stand alone with a digi 7 + more
custom intercooler piping 2.5 one side 2.75 other side
custom turbo manifold
innovative turbo capable of 450 horse
phantom grip lsd with upgraded springs
and the list goes on

looking for 350whp to 400whp at about 15 psi-20 psi on 92 pump gas

[nik]

Damn soulshadow you make me feel bad about my ST. That is until I remember Nik's ST. What exactly is a 7agte. Im a newbie so i dont understand what that is. Would soulshadows ST be alot faster if it had a 4agze swap instead?
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Yea it would be quicker with the GZE

a 7AGTE is a 7A block mated to a 4AGE Head with 4A internals(not sure) with a turbo for the extra umph
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just to clean things up
internals are 7afe spec crank, rods (pautor or stock), but pistons are 4ag spec or custom
and yes the head of a 4ag be it 20v st or bt, 4ag 16v red or blue or supercharged big or small port

than N/A or turbo or supercharged

[soulshadow]

I was thinking that in the future when im out in the world and working Im gonna upgrade my 4age engine. Going to put in some toda parts and Atlantic parts to see if the engine can rev all the way to the 11,000 RPM line. I'll still keep it NA though.

[shin]

ya going all Initial D on your 4age soulshadow? lol.

[Smlogg]

The celica was never built or intended for drag, the ones you see in official races are usually in rally courses. It's a heavy car built for looks and comfort, and the st version is built around economy. To convert it for drag is going to take a lot of money resources and time. The easiest method is of course going the turbo route, and then gutting out parts of the car (backseats, ac, sound proofing, etc). As has been said by many people who have done it, its not worth it. And keep in mind when you race, there is always someone faster than you.

[RedSunCelica]

buy a mustang 5.0
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Best reply and most accurate.


celica was not meant to be fast especially USDM celicas. drag racing is more then power what are your 60'ft are you spinning off the line. dont expect to hit low 13;s with this car youll be lucky to even break in the low 14s. also since you want to drag look into some gear work.

This post has been edited by RedSunCelica: Oct 27, 2005 - 3:35 PM

[blu94gt]

buy a mustang 5.0
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Best reply and most accurate.


celica was not meant to be fast especially USDM celicas. drag racing is more then power what are your 60'ft are you spinning off the line. dont expect to hit low 13;s with this car youll be lucky to even break in the low 14s. also since you want to drag look into some gear work.
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5.0's are great. Used to own one, lots of potential for cheap. I want to get another convertible 5.0, strip the interior to the basics, cage it, put an eibach suspension in it and make it an autoX monster since everyone always builds those cars to drag.