after swap, not turning over ?!!?!?!, advise Options

[Batman722]

here is the situation...a 94 5s went into a 96. The 96 harness was used and everything matched up except a few things (they were then swapped over from the 96 motor to the 94, i.e. distributer, OBDII, ect. ). Now after everything is all hooked up and put together, it doesn't start up. It cranks, the starter is good, but no vroom.

anything that I should check for specifically ?

any ideas ?

wtf ?

thanks

[Dr_Tweak]

Are you getting spark? Is the fuel pump running? Do you have fuel pressure?

[Batman722]

the problem is I am not at the engine to find out, just hearing about from a friend but i am gonna call him in the morn.

story...I sold my 94 (non cali) 5s (ran great) to a local guy who blew a hole in his block we (Manny and I) helped him pull his old 5s and he needed to use his 96 (cali) harness on the 94. He said he swapped everything he needed with his harness but had one problem with a sensor on the side of the TB. He said he rigged it and things should be fine.

I know this is limited info here but what would cause it to not turn over ?

[Dr_Tweak]

Well, first off, "turn over" = cranking, so don't use that term for not starting. The problem is it turns over, but doesn't start, right?

Which distributor is he using? There's a ton of things that could cause a no start, probably it's something very simple.

[Batman722]

you are correct, turning over, yes, starting, no.

I think it has to be simple too. I told him to swap his 96 distributor, he should be using it.

[Dr_Tweak]

Yeap, that's probably his problem right there.

[presure2]

he prolly forgot somthing dustin, did he tell you about what he did with the crank sensor thingy?

[Batman722]

he swaped the cover and his dad did the timing belt

[Agent21]

There are supposidly some differences between cali and fed distributors. Also make sure he uses the exhaust off the cali car. How does the coil look? I know that also has cali/fed issues.

[nightryder]

ok guys, ill step forward, its my car.

alright...

I used the exaust from the other engine...
I changed over the distributor
I changed over the wire harness
I swapped over a crank sensor
I swapped the egr

Now, I am getting spark, the fuel pump is working, the fuses are fine, and there is fuel getting to the fuel filter. I tryed using some starter fluid, i got it to studder a little but didnt run. I am now going to take a look at the hoses and the fuel rail to see if there is maybe a blockage. This is the last thing i can think of. is there a way to see if the injectors are firing?

[lagos]

ok guys, ill step forward, its my car.

alright...

I used the exaust from the other engine...
I changed over the distributor
I changed over the wire harness
I swapped over a crank sensor
I swapped the egr

Now, I am getting spark, the fuel pump is working, the fuses are fine, and there is fuel getting to the fuel filter. I tryed using some starter fluid, i got it to studder a little but didnt run. I am now going to take a look at the hoses and the fuel rail to see if there is maybe a blockage. This is the last thing i can think of. is there a way to see if the injectors are firing?

if you got it to fire up with the starter fluid, then your problem must be fuel related, since you verified that the car and fire on its own.

[nightryder]

OK i have an update and an apology for my last post. I AM NOT GETTING SPARK. Thought i was, guess not, i checked again today. Distributor maybe?

[Sr_Ric]

i know on some cars if your using diffrent wiring you have to change keys/modules for the imobiliser?

sorry if this is totally of the mark

[lagos]

OK i have an update and an apology for my last post. I AM NOT GETTING SPARK. Thought i was, guess not, i checked again today. Distributor maybe?

make sure you are using your coil, ignitor, distributor, harness and ecu from your old motor. you also have to make sure the iginitor and coil and grounded to the car, and that you didnt forget to hook up your tranny and chasis grounds from your battery .... its always something dumb like that that causes problems.

[nightryder]

Ive been doing some trouble shooting and i think it could be my ignitor coil. I have power going in the coil, and none coming out the ignitor. I figure this might be it, either that or a crossed wire somewhere. and yes i am using the harness ecu, distributor, ignitor and coil from the old engine.

This post has been edited by nightryder: Jan 24, 2006 - 6:24 PM

[Agent21]

Take a multimeter on the positive pole and the little loop on the side of the coil on near the bottom. If it is between 10K and 14K you are fine. anything else it is SHOT! My money is on it.

[nightryder]

Take a multimeter on the positive pole and the little loop on the side of the coil on near the bottom. If it is between 10K and 14K you are fine. anything else it is SHOT! My money is on it.

I got a hold of a multimeter, checked the power going into the coil-(12.45) then i checked it going from the coil to the ignitor-(0) then i checked the distributor cord from the coil and i got no power either, i think you are right on the money Agent. Im haveing a buddy who works at a local dealership as a diagnostic manager to come over and have a looksee, we will know later on today.

[Agent21]

I only know this because mine blew out of no where. Pulled the alternator and waited a week for the new one, put in the alternator and no spark at all.

[rjbibeau]

i now too have the same prob as doggy. i swapped from a 96 5sfe motor to a 98 5sfe motor cuz i blew the old one. and i have fuel but no spark. when i put my ear up to the coil it makes a whine sound very faint though even when the car is on the off position. i'm thinking this is draining my battery. i'm gonna check into it more tonight but i think my coil is shot. did you ever get yours to work doggy?

[Agent21]

Could be the ignition control module as well. It is on the firewall right above the master cylinder.

[Batman722]

The problem is most likely getting corrected right now.

Manny (presure2) had an idea about what it could be and we are now very sure it is the cause.

Damn 96+...we found another difference between the 94-95 5s and the 96+ 5s. If this doesn't work out, I will feel even worse about this situation...

[rjbibeau]

i'll check and see. i checked all fuses and all are good. how do you go about testing the ignition control module?

[Agent21]

Well the ugly way is to buy one with a return policy. Other then that I dunno.

[nightryder]

ok a break in the case! I had a buddy come down from toyota of dartmouth, me helped me look through the car, we traced the power problem all the way back to the ecu, so its either a short in the harness, or a burnt out ecu. which is highly possible because when putting the whole ting back together, my wonderful "wrangler enthusiast" buddy decided to put the ground of the battery under the starter bolt. so im pretty sure that messed some stuff up, we'll see.

[nightryder]

The problem is most likely getting corrected right now.

Manny (presure2) had an idea about what it could be and we are now very sure it is the cause.

Damn 96+...we found another difference between the 94-95 5s and the 96+ 5s. If this doesn't work out, I will feel even worse about this situation...

its cool, the diff is the crank sensor, all you have to do is pull the plate holding the sensor off of the block and transplant that along with the crank into the new engine, very simple, very effective as long as you use the same harness. So dont worry about it, its a minor setback, Thanks again guys!

[lagos]

ok a break in the case! I had a buddy come down from toyota of dartmouth, me helped me look through the car, we traced the power problem all the way back to the ecu, so its either a short in the harness, or a burnt out ecu. which is highly possible because when putting the whole ting back together, my wonderful "wrangler enthusiast" buddy decided to put the ground of the battery under the starter bolt. so im pretty sure that messed some stuff up, we'll see.

check all your fuses, they are there to prevent such things. you can buy a little test light to make sure they work. there is one fuse box in the engine bay, and 2 on the inside of the car

[nightryder]

ok a break in the case! I had a buddy come down from toyota of dartmouth, me helped me look through the car, we traced the power problem all the way back to the ecu, so its either a short in the harness, or a burnt out ecu. which is highly possible because when putting the whole ting back together, my wonderful "wrangler enthusiast" buddy decided to put the ground of the battery under the starter bolt. so im pretty sure that messed some stuff up, we'll see.

check all your fuses, they are there to prevent such things. you can buy a little test light to make sure they work. there is one fuse box in the engine bay, and 2 on the inside of the car

I did use such a light today, but the power is all screwy, my grounds in my ecu have power and such, so im thinking its a crossed line in my harness, its all thats really left, im having a new harness brought in tomorrow to do a quick swap and see if we can get my baby alive again.

[lagos]

ok a break in the case! I had a buddy come down from toyota of dartmouth, me helped me look through the car, we traced the power problem all the way back to the ecu, so its either a short in the harness, or a burnt out ecu. which is highly possible because when putting the whole ting back together, my wonderful "wrangler enthusiast" buddy decided to put the ground of the battery under the starter bolt. so im pretty sure that messed some stuff up, we'll see.

check all your fuses, they are there to prevent such things. you can buy a little test light to make sure they work. there is one fuse box in the engine bay, and 2 on the inside of the car

I did use such a light today, but the power is all screwy, my grounds in my ecu have power and such, so im thinking its a crossed line in my harness, its all thats really left, im having a new harness brought in tomorrow to do a quick swap and see if we can get my baby alive again.

but its an oem harness that has never been modified. if it ran before, there shouldnt be anythhing wrong with it. fuses are there to prevent any type of burn outs happening inside of the wires. are you sure you didnt forget to plug a sensor in somewhere?

[nightryder]

ok a break in the case! I had a buddy come down from toyota of dartmouth, me helped me look through the car, we traced the power problem all the way back to the ecu, so its either a short in the harness, or a burnt out ecu. which is highly possible because when putting the whole ting back together, my wonderful "wrangler enthusiast" buddy decided to put the ground of the battery under the starter bolt. so im pretty sure that messed some stuff up, we'll see.

check all your fuses, they are there to prevent such things. you can buy a little test light to make sure they work. there is one fuse box in the engine bay, and 2 on the inside of the car

I did use such a light today, but the power is all screwy, my grounds in my ecu have power and such, so im thinking its a crossed line in my harness, its all thats really left, im having a new harness brought in tomorrow to do a quick swap and see if we can get my baby alive again.

but its an oem harness that has never been modified. if it ran before, there shouldnt be anythhing wrong with it. fuses are there to prevent any type of burn outs happening inside of the wires. are you sure you didnt forget to plug a sensor in somewhere?

That was the first thing i thought of, and i checked and checked and had my buddy from the dealership check, so i dont think that is the problem. The only reason i still belive it could be a melted wire or something of the sort, is because when we tryed to connect the battery with the ground and power crossed on the starter like i said, the little black clip on the timing belt side of the engine the grounds the head to the body got so hot it melted the inside and caused the wire to fall right out! so i figured if i happened over here, maybe it could have happened somewhere inside that i couldnt see, that would explain my power problems and why even when my key is out, my check engine light stays dimly lit. and why im getting minimal power to my coil and ignitor. better updates tomorrow after class.

[Batman722]

Nate, I am free tomorrow after 7ish...give me a call, I want to help any way I can. Also, I have the 94 ECU if you want it.

[Agent21]

"my wonderful "wrangler enthusiast" buddy decided" famous last words. For some reason those guys think since their cars haven't changed since the 1940's that today's cars can be man handled like theirs.

[nightryder]

"my wonderful "wrangler enthusiast" buddy decided" famous last words. For some reason those guys think since their cars haven't changed since the 1940's that today's cars can be man handled like theirs.

Amen

[nightryder]

And the clouds opened up and god said "Let it live!"... oh yeah, shes running again, roughly. but running and driving. Thanks guys, it turned out to be a fryed ground on the back of the block, just re-spliced it and she started right up! Now i just gotta figure out why she keeps stalling out on me

[rjbibeau]

there's a ground on the back of the block?.....where

[presure2]

it attaches to the back of the intake manifold.

[rjbibeau]

sweet deal maybe that's my problem. where does the other end attach to?.

This post has been edited by rjbibeau: Feb 3, 2006 - 10:57 AM

[nightryder]

sweet deal maybe that's my problem. where does the other end attach to?.

It comes out of the harness, if you have a cali emissions engine, there will be two sensors with it, if its not cali, it'll be only one sensor. But either or, they all plug into the back of the block and if you are having the same problems as me, i wont feel like such a moron!

[Batman722]

Glad to hear the beast is running again Nate

get the idle prob figured out yet ?

[nightryder]

it idles at like 2000 rpms now, its a lil high... I have an idea of how to adjust it, but i dont wanna mess w/ anything ya know? and p.s. , I dont have heat either...

This post has been edited by nightryder: Feb 4, 2006 - 6:06 PM

[rjbibeau]

good news guys my engine is alive. it runs smooth. the problem was that ground wire on the back of the intake manifold. just got some leaks in the axle seals. any tricks on getting those suckers in besides a big socket. and an extension. i ruined both seals by using a 30 mm socket. it just wasn't quite small enough. thanks guys for all your help.

This post has been edited by rjbibeau: Feb 4, 2006 - 6:44 PM

[Batman722]

Just to let you all know, Nate's (nightryder) car is all set I went to his place tonight after work and dropped some knowledge

this was the situation : after everything was 100% there was one last problem...the car would just stall out and not start up.

hey, Art can you guess what it was

[Dr_Tweak]

He didn't buy a clip?

[lagos]

He didn't buy a clip?

lamo .. no

i had a very odd ignitor problem, where the harness plug would loose contact and cause the car to stall out at random times. it took me a good 2 weeks of sifting through every wire in my harness to track the problem down..lol. glad my pain helped someone out .

[nightryder]

He didn't buy a clip?

lamo .. no

i had a very odd ignitor problem, where the harness plug would loose contact and cause the car to stall out at random times. it took me a good 2 weeks of sifting through every wire in my harness to track the problem down..lol. glad my pain helped someone out .

lol yeah thanks a lot bro. And a special thanks to "The Colonel" (Batman) and Manny, you guys are what this site is all about! You'll have to excuse me now, I'm going to go drive my car.