3sge engines, just wondering? Options

[qmoney10457]

Hey, I was just wondering how much hp does the 3sge engines come stock(not the "Beams" engines but the ones found in the early SSII's)? I'm just asking because I seen one for sale and I was just curious how fast they were. Thanx.

Quincy V.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Wow, finally someone interested in a non-BEAMS 3S-GE. Anywho, SS-II's came with 180PS (~177HP) 3rd gen 3S-GE's. Torque output will be similar to a 5S-FE. But HP output will go all the way to redline unlike the 5S-FE. How fast? I've been able to mess around with lightly modded RSX-S', heavily modded N/A 240SX's, Civic's with B-series swaps, and IS300's to name a few.

[celi94]

I've done a 7AFE to a 3gen 3SGE swap and that's the best thing i did on the car! The car is much faster and better to drive...

@BLADDER_MASTER: Did you modified your engine?

[Kadett]

Hey, I was just wondering how much hp does the 3sge engines come stock(not the "Beams" engines but the ones found in the early SSII's)? I'm just asking because I seen one for sale and I was just curious how fast they were. Thanx.

Quincy V.

Well
0-60 in 7.6 seconds
Top speed of 142 mph

There are different HP specs given for the 3rd gen 3S-GE
169 in the UK
175 here in Holland
177 in Japan.

But overall i dont think you could feel the difference, if there is any.
But the real question is not how fast the are from a stop or what there topspeed is. Just drive it above 5000 RPM and its a real beast. Pulling until 7200 RPM with everything its got is NICE

[Heytalktoryan]

well my car just came out of the shop (wrecked it ..hit and run) but yeha i was considering doing this swap..i wa s wondering how much money it initally cost you and how much you think it would cost to go into an 94 st? i know the tranny is fwd so will it bolt on into my celica?and cna i use the 3sge transmission?also, i was considering buying this engine....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-CELICA-CAMRY-MR2-ENGINE-DOHC-3SGE_W0QQitemZ4630365050QQcategoryZ6755QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem..so what do you guys think lmk asap ..thanks

[qmoney10457]

I was thinking about swapping this engine? Do they come vvt or vvti? View this page:3sge

[qmoney10457]

Also, is this one I posted up a 2nd or 3rd Gen.?

This post has been edited by qmoney10457: Apr 14, 2006 - 1:06 PM

[Kadett]

The one posted in your ebay link is a 3rd gen 3S-GE same as sitting in my engine bay right now!

[BLADDER_MASTER]

@BLADDER_MASTER: Did you modified your engine?

Only has intake and exhaust.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Hey, I was just wondering how much hp does the 3sge engines come stock(not the "Beams" engines but the ones found in the early SSII's)? I'm just asking because I seen one for sale and I was just curious how fast they were. Thanx.

Quincy V.

Well
0-60 in 7.6 seconds
Top speed of 142 mph

There are different HP specs given for the 3rd gen 3S-GE
169 in the UK
175 here in Holland
177 in Japan.

Early model UK Celica's were rated at 173BHP, then after '96 they were rated at 168BHP.

Oh and I just wanted to add that a UK magazine did 0-60 in 7.2 seconds with a top speed of 128.6 MPH on a UK Celica GT.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

well my car just came out of the shop (wrecked it ..hit and run) but yeha i was considering doing this swap..i wa s wondering how much money it initally cost you and how much you think it would cost to go into an 94 st? i know the tranny is fwd so will it bolt on into my celica?and cna i use the 3sge transmission?also, i was considering buying this engine....http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-CELICA-CAMRY-MR2-ENGINE-DOHC-3SGE_W0QQitemZ4630365050QQcategoryZ6755QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem..so what do you guys think lmk asap ..thanks

The engine in that eBay auction is a 160PS 2nd gen 3S-GE. It's not worth getting because you're still missing components needed to do the swap like the ECU. To swap a 3S-GE into your ST, look at how others have swapped 3S-GTE's into their ST's. Practically the same procedure but with some differences.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

I was thinking about swapping this engine? Do they come vvt or vvti? View this page:3sge

3rd gen 3S-GE's never came with VVT or VVT-i. About the eBay auction, if the seller is selling just the engine, it's not worth it. Unless you're comfortable with sourcing parts.

[Heytalktoryan]

I was thinking about swapping this engine? Do they come vvt or vvti? View this page:3sge

3rd gen 3S-GE's never came with VVT or VVT-i. About the eBay auction, if the seller is selling just the engine, it's not worth it. Unless you're comfortable with sourcing parts.

in that case, know anywhere where i can find a 3sge engine?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

I was thinking about swapping this engine? Do they come vvt or vvti? View this page:3sge

3rd gen 3S-GE's never came with VVT or VVT-i. About the eBay auction, if the seller is selling just the engine, it's not worth it. Unless you're comfortable with sourcing parts.

in that case, know anywhere where i can find a 3sge engine?

http://www.justjapsimports.com/home.htm

Thats where I got my 3S-GE.

[Kadett]

Hey, I was just wondering how much hp does the 3sge engines come stock(not the "Beams" engines but the ones found in the early SSII's)? I'm just asking because I seen one for sale and I was just curious how fast they were. Thanx.

Quincy V.

Well
0-60 in 7.6 seconds
Top speed of 142 mph

There are different HP specs given for the 3rd gen 3S-GE
169 in the UK
175 here in Holland
177 in Japan.

Early model UK Celica's were rated at 173BHP, then after '96 they were rated at 168BHP.

Oh and I just wanted to add that a UK magazine did 0-60 in 7.2 seconds with a top speed of 128.6 MPH on a UK Celica GT.

Sorry that I had a full sound system in the car and 17 inch rims........ when driving that time :D

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Hey, I was just wondering how much hp does the 3sge engines come stock(not the "Beams" engines but the ones found in the early SSII's)? I'm just asking because I seen one for sale and I was just curious how fast they were. Thanx.

Quincy V.

Well
0-60 in 7.6 seconds
Top speed of 142 mph

There are different HP specs given for the 3rd gen 3S-GE
169 in the UK
175 here in Holland
177 in Japan.

Early model UK Celica's were rated at 173BHP, then after '96 they were rated at 168BHP.

Oh and I just wanted to add that a UK magazine did 0-60 in 7.2 seconds with a top speed of 128.6 MPH on a UK Celica GT.

Sorry that I had a full sound system in the car and 17 inch rims........ when driving that time :D

Oh ok. Gotcha!

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

BLADDER_MASTER, I have a few questions I'd like to ask since this is already shedding light on a pretty unknown subject, the 3rd gen 3SGE and you're the man to ask.

1.) What sort of setup did you start with, a full clip or just motor, ECU, harness, etc?

2.) What sort of wiring situation did you face?, i.e. a custom harness wired up or was alot of it plug and play with the chassis??

3.) Part availability? Maintainence issues of any kind?

Last but not least I'd love to see some videos in action, or I could just settle for some pics i suppose. Whatever you have I'd love to see it.


I'd appreciate any knowledge you can impart upon me. Thanks.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

BLADDER_MASTER, I have a few questions I'd like to ask since this is already shedding light on a pretty unknown subject, the 3rd gen 3SGE and you're the man to ask.

1.) What sort of setup did you start with, a full clip or just motor, ECU, harness, etc?

2.) What sort of wiring situation did you face?, i.e. a custom harness wired up or was alot of it plug and play with the chassis??

3.) Part availability? Maintainence issues of any kind?

Last but not least I'd love to see some videos in action, or I could just settle for some pics i suppose. Whatever you have I'd love to see it.


I'd appreciate any knowledge you can impart upon me. Thanks.

To begin with, I feel it's unknown because most people on this forum choose to fixate themselves to the BEAMS and 3S-GTE engines. I've been posting info on the 3rd gen 3S-GE for a long while. Look back at my posts and you'll see what I'm talking about. I keep trying to tell people to consider this engine, but yet the majority still go for the BEAMS. Yeah the BEAMS has the latest technology with the highest HP compared to previous 3S-GE's, but that comes with a price. Also, most people are HP and 1/4 mile freaks. So what engine is going to give them what they want? A 3S-GTE. I agree with Toyota and feel that the 3S-GTE should be left in an AWD or RWD platform and not in a FWD. You mix high HP on a FWD platform and all you're going to get is traction issues. Non-BEAMS 3S-GE's have also become unknown because of peoples failure to research. A lot of people don't bother doing research. You can't just go with what people say because most will tell you to get a 3S-GTE. Anywho, I just had to let that out since I've been holding it in for a while. If anyone feels different with what I said, feel free to comment. Now to answer your questions:

1. Basically I got the engine which included everything I needed to do the swap. People will tell you that you need a front clip, this is false. You can do this swap without a front clip, but if you want to play it safe, get a front clip. I've mentioned this before months ago I believe.

2. I took a 6GC engine and dropped it into a 5GC chassis. So I don't know if you could imagine the wiring nightmare I had to go through. But when looking at a USDM 6GC wiring harness, I noticed that a lot of the wiring colors matched the 3S-GE's harness. If you have a 6GC GT, swapping in the engine shouldn't be much hassle. You're still going to have to extend the harness. And I wouldn't be surprised if you have to re-wire a couple of wires. Get together with friends who are knowledgeable with wiring. Thats what I did. I got two of my Honda friends who have done numerous engine swaps and wiring to help me out with my mess.

3. Go to MR2OC.com. They have a thread where they list the part numbers for 3rd gen 3S-GTE and 3S-GE replacement parts. For Toyota oil filters, I just ask for a 95 MR2 Turbo's filter. For the O2 sensor, which you'll need to get for the swap, ask for a 95 MR2 Turbo's O2 sensor. Don't get the Bosch OEM O2 sensor, get the Bosch universal O2 sensor. When you see the price difference, you'll understand why.

I haven't taken any vids or pics lately. Right now the car isn't in the best condition. But you are free to ask me anymore questions you might have.

[qmoney10457]

I just wanna know where I can get a 3rd gen. 3sge with everything(tranny, harness, cpu and etc.) And I also wanna know how hard of a job will it be to get it into my 94 st? My boy does Civic/Integra swaps so will it be kinda similar or way harder 2 do?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

I just wanna know where I can get a 3rd gen. 3sge with everything(tranny, harness, cpu and etc.)

Again, this is where I got my engine from:

http://www.justjapsimports.com/home.htm

And I also wanna know how hard of a job will it be to get it into my 94 st?

Ask celi94 for help on that since he's done it.

My boy does Civic/Integra swaps so will it be kinda similar or way harder 2 do?

I couldn't tell you, but I do remember my Honda buddies complaining on how much of a pain in the ass my swap was. But keep in mind that my swap is different from yours.

This post has been edited by BLADDER_MASTER: Apr 15, 2006 - 3:13 PM

[GT4WRC]

I'm looking at installing a 3SGE motor into my rally car and have no intention of going down the BEAMS or turbo route.
After some research, it appears that the Gen II is a better option if you want more power due to the smaller inlet ports on the head. Saying that, the plan is to completely rebuilld the engine with uprated everything and aim for a higher CR and a rev limit around 9k. I'll also be looking at a decent set of throttle bodies too (which will require some ingenious firewall modifications!) See no reason why a flywheel figure of around 230bhp should be achievable. And with a Quaife straight cut gear set, the @ wheels figure should be over 200 given the reduced transmission losses. Not to shabby in a 1000kg (approx 2200lb) car
Another reason for chosing the 3S motor is that due to it's 15 deg inclination, it will actually allow me to position the engine so that there is more weight directly over the front wheels and it will also give better weight distribution than most 4 pots. Just a shame that it doesn't have an alloy block. And before anyone says it, the 2ZZ motor won't fit as it is too long.
The 3SGE does have quite a lot of potential, especially if you throw a lot of $ at it. However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box. But for racing purposes, I'd rather have a heavily worked 3SGE than a BEAMS for the simple reason that there is less to go wrong.
Gary

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Thanks BLADDER_MASTER for a great reply. I totally agree with what you said about N/A being better suited for FWD platforms though, I've been in and driven several really sweet N/A setups and I think i prefer that sort of motor over a turbo in a FWD. AWD tends to lend itself very well to the power output of a turbo and FWD to N/A for sure.

I appreciate all your help though, and I might be seriously looking into getting my hands on a 3rd gen 3SGE soon. Do you mind me asking how much you spent on your motor?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box.

If thats the reason why people aren't going the non-BEAMS route, then they're stupid. Obviously they haven't done their homework. If they did, they would know that the 3rd gen 3S-GE would be cheaper to get and less hassle to install than a BEAMS 3S-GE. The installation part only applies to a 6GC GT of course. So what surprises me is how people are not going the non-BEAMS 3S-GE route. They complain that they want something better but they can't spend the money on a 3S-GTE or a BEAMS 3S-GE.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Thanks BLADDER_MASTER for a great reply. I totally agree with what you said about N/A being better suited for FWD platforms though, I've been in and driven several really sweet N/A setups and I think i prefer that sort of motor over a turbo in a FWD. AWD tends to lend itself very well to the power output of a turbo and FWD to N/A for sure.

I appreciate all your help though, and I might be seriously looking into getting my hands on a 3rd gen 3SGE soon. Do you mind me asking how much you spent on your motor?

$650 to get the motor with everything needed to do the swap. That included engine, tranny, ecu, full un-cut wiring harness, and the extra accessories (a/c compressor, alternator, ps pump, etc.). Even though I paid that much by winning a bid on eBay, I looked around and I saw other 3S-GE's going around the same price range. One of these days I'll try to pass by the place I got my engine from and ask them how much he sells 3rd gen 3S-GE's for.

[GT4WRC]

However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box.

If thats the reason why people aren't going the non-BEAMS route, then they're stupid. Obviously they haven't done their homework. If they did, they would know that the 3rd gen 3S-GE would be cheaper to get and less hassle to install than a BEAMS 3S-GE.

You obviously haven't understood a word of what I said have you?

Sure, a 'standard' 3SGE motor is cheaper to buy than a BEAMS. But, a 3SGE makes less power out of the box and you need to start spending extra $ to get it up to the power level of a BEAMS. For that reason, a BEAMS conversion has the potential to work out cheaper in the end.
Gary

[BLADDER_MASTER]

However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box.

If thats the reason why people aren't going the non-BEAMS route, then they're stupid. Obviously they haven't done their homework. If they did, they would know that the 3rd gen 3S-GE would be cheaper to get and less hassle to install than a BEAMS 3S-GE.

You obviously haven't understood a word of what I said have you?

Sure, a 'standard' 3SGE motor is cheaper to buy than a BEAMS. But, a 3SGE makes less power out of the box and you need to start spending extra $ to get it up to the power level of a BEAMS. For that reason, a BEAMS conversion has the potential to work out cheaper in the end.
Gary

Oh, I get it now. My mistake. Sorry.

For me, the non-BEAMS 3S-GE came out to be cheaper since I wasn't planning on getting to the same level as the BEAMS.

This post has been edited by BLADDER_MASTER: Apr 17, 2006 - 9:59 AM

[Kwanza26]

You obviously haven't understood a word of what I said have you?

Sure, a 'standard' 3SGE motor is cheaper to buy than a BEAMS. But, a 3SGE makes less power out of the box and you need to start spending extra $ to get it up to the power level of a BEAMS. For that reason, a BEAMS conversion has the potential to work out cheaper in the end.
Gary

I'm a little late into this debate... but I'd argue the BEAMS isn't worth the extra grand or two. The major powermaker differences between the BEAMS and a 3rd gen 3SGE are quite small, so I would argue you can build a 3rd gen to meet and surpass the BEAMS for the price of simply throwing in a BEAMS. VVTi is overrated from a horsepower performance standpoint, cause if you're gonna tune upwards of 240+hp n/a anyway, chances are you're gonna want to manually tune the cam timing. From a mechanical standpoint... they are very very similar (pretty much the same)... the BEAMS only has slightly more compression and a different head. I still hate the intake manifolds on those 3SGE's... but based on your other topic... that doesn't matter anyways... =D

That pretty red valve cover is pretty neat though...

[blu94gt]

Since I've been making a lot of money with my new job, I've also been looking into doing a non-BEAMS 3sge swap. I had looked at buying a new car or another project or something, but have decided I would rather spend a few thousand on the Celica.

The 3sge would give me the NA power I want for driving every day without being very expensive or becoming a maintenance nightmare.

To the guy who said he got everything for $650, did that include shipping? That is a lot cheaper than I thought it would be.

I've been thinking that I want to get the engine and ECU etc off of ebay or something, then install it with my stock transmission, put in a new clutch at the time, and just keep everythign else in there stock.

What are you guys doing for exhaust?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Since I've been making a lot of money with my new job, I've also been looking into doing a non-BEAMS 3sge swap. I had looked at buying a new car or another project or something, but have decided I would rather spend a few thousand on the Celica.

The 3sge would give me the NA power I want for driving every day without being very expensive or becoming a maintenance nightmare.

To the guy who said he got everything for $650, did that include shipping? That is a lot cheaper than I thought it would be.

I've been thinking that I want to get the engine and ECU etc off of ebay or something, then install it with my stock transmission, put in a new clutch at the time, and just keep everythign else in there stock.

What are you guys doing for exhaust?

I didn't have to pay for shipping because I picked up the engine myself. For exhaust I went custom.

[Predator]

how many horses do you think i can pick by having the head ported and polished ?