Controlling boost for better traction, and other means of improving grip Options

[CilverSeliST205]

For a while i was considering buying myself a new toy, Turbosmart E-Boost 2, an EBC with a variety of features, one of them being the capability to map boost against time, rpm or GEAR. Now, I have noticed that breaking the traction on street tires is likely to occur not only on a hard launch from a dead stop, but also at WOT in 1st and 2nd gear short time after going over 10psi. Since this unit can control boost depending on gear i guess we could use it to stay within limits of traction in those gears! yes? no? suggestions? comments?

Since im still on internal WG and my actuator is on 13-14 psi, the EBC itself wouldn't help... Is there a way to lower WG actuaction pressure?? That is without welding the flapper shut and going external.

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: May 23, 2006 - 12:13 AM

[Supersprynt]

The AVCR has that feature also. You have to teach the computer what gear is what. I am thinking about doing that as soon as I get more familiar with the controller though because setting it up to prevent initial over/under boost is kinda complicated.

[brianforster]

i cant wait for this topic to be more developed this is something i was toying with posting but never got around to it, it seems like it could optimize your boost for launches and get the swapped guys times down by a bunch..

i know jeff ran a 13.9 at 12 psi cause 1st/2nd gear traction at 15 psi was giving him slower times

[phattyduck]

Since im still on internal WG and my actuator is on 13-14 psi, the EBC itself wouldn't help... Is there a way to lower WG actuaction pressure?? That is without welding the flapper shut and going external.

What turbo are you running? The stock ST185 wastegate is set around 7psi and the ST205 wastegate is around 9-10psi... The extra boost then comes from the TVSV bleeding some boost from the wastegate actuator.

-Charlie

[jgreening]

Its a good idea. It is a topic that I have thought alot about. Here is a list of ways to address traction issues:

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

I think you should do #1 before #2 or #3 because it is allows you to harness more power. The same might be said for #4 but its really uncharted territory for the 6gc.

[lagos]

its all about the tires. running less boost might give you more grip, but will also make less power. the best thing to do is to do is to get some slicks when you go to the track.

as far as gear based boost control, all your really need is any ebc. the greddy typ-s i have has low and high boost settings. you can change the low boost to whatever you want in 1st gear, and then press the button to high boost when you are ready to go all out. they even sell a remote switch for your steering wheel so that you can press the button while driving.

for daily driving or street fun, all you need is a good pair of tires. im running kumho asx, and while they are not the best tire in the world, they seem to do a good job griping on a dry road. with 225-45-17s that i have, you can feel the car starting to want to break loose, but still keeping traction most of the time.

the last thing to remember is that its still a fwd car. you cant lauch at 5k and floor it in 1st gear like you can with an awd car.

This post has been edited by lagos: May 22, 2006 - 10:41 PM

[Defgeph]

As noted above, a wide pair of stickies would do the job. Traction bars are something I havent thought about. I could try making a pair for my car.

[brianforster]

could you guys explain what a traction bar is?

[Defgeph]

Edit : Bolts up to the front.

[brianforster]

so youd have to remove them to street drive it?

[Defgeph]

so youd have to remove them to street drive it?

These can be left in all the time.

[CilverSeliST205]

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

5. Stiffer motor mounts
6. Stiffer suspension
7. Wastegate/spool-up control - progressive opening of the wastegate could be used to bring the boost up at slower rate - staying within traction limits
8. Limited slip diffrentials

[brianforster]

then in my opinion traction bars for our car should definitly be made, if jeff cant do it maybe we could contact a company for a group buy

[CilverSeliST205]

What turbo are you running? The stock ST185 wastegate is set around 7psi and the ST205 wastegate is around 9-10psi... The extra boost then comes from the TVSV bleeding some boost from the wastegate actuator.

-Charlie

its from '95 jdm sw20
i know i know my screename is misleading

its all about the tires. running less boost might give you more grip, but will also make less power. the best thing to do is to do is to get some slicks when you go to the track.

You can't just drive around in slicks all the time

as far as gear based boost control, all your really need is any ebc. the greddy typ-s i have has low and high boost settings. you can change the low boost to whatever you want in 1st gear, and then press the button to high boost when you are ready to go all out. they even sell a remote switch for your steering wheel so that you can press the button while driving.

Two settings isn't going to bring you to the limits of traction in each gear... but pretty close

for daily driving or street fun, all you need is a good pair of tires. im running kumho asx, and while they are not the best tire in the world, they seem to do a good job griping on a dry road. with 225-45-17s that i have, you can feel the car starting to want to break loose, but still keeping traction most of the time.

the last thing to remember is that its still a fwd car. you cant lauch at 5k and floor it in 1st gear like you can with an awd car.

I have noticed that breaking the traction on street tires is likely to occur not only on a hard launch from a dead stop, but also at WOT in 1st and 2nd gear short time after going over 10psi.

[jgreening]

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

5. Stiffer motor mounts
6. Stiffer suspension
7. Wastegate/spool-up control - progressive opening of the wastegate could be used to bring the boost up at slower rate - staying within traction limits
8. Limited slip diffrentials

I am not sure that 5 or 6 would help with traction
7 is the same as 3
8 is one I forgot because I already have it

[CilverSeliST205]

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

5. Stiffer motor mounts
6. Stiffer suspension
7. Wastegate/spool-up control - progressive opening of the wastegate could be used to bring the boost up at slower rate - staying within traction limits
8. Limited slip diffrentials

I am not sure that 5 or 6 would help with traction
7 is the same as 3
8 is one I forgot because I already have it

5. Stiffer motor mounts help reduce wheel hop caused by motor vibration, but that is only an issue with a hard launch...
6. Stiffer suspension does help to keep grip on corners and also on launch, i know that from my own experience
7. Full wastegate control, like a device which you can plug into computer and see the graph of boost vs rpm vs angle of the gate, yes any ebc has an option which lets you set the point of opening the wastegate prior to reaching max allowable boost, and that is used to fine tune for best compromise between laggy spoolup and boost spike. A device/feature in ebc that I am talking about is opening a wastegate at a chosen angle at a chosen boost/rpm/time and therefore modifying the output of a turbo to produce power slower/less torque in lower gears, not necessarily just stoping boost increase at preselected level (any ebc), but allowing the boost to rise at slower rate can help stay in grip. With such device you could fine-tune power level to meet the margin of your tires' grip...
8. I'm jealous

[jgreening]

7. Full wastegate control, like a device which you can plug into computer and see the graph of boost vs rpm vs angle of the gate, yes any ebc has an option which lets you set the point of opening the wastegate prior to reaching max allowable boost, and that is used to fine tune for best compromise between laggy spoolup and boost spike. A device/feature in ebc that I am talking about is opening a wastegate at a chosen angle at a chosen boost/rpm/time and therefore modifying the output of a turbo to produce power slower/less torque in lower gears, not necessarily just stoping boost increase at preselected level (any ebc), but allowing the boost to rise at slower rate can help stay in grip. With such device you could fine-tune power level to meet the margin of your tires' grip...

I have never heard of such a thing. Do you have a link I could look at?

[jgreening]

Edit : Bolts up to the front.

Maybe I will see if Carl wants to produce a set for a group buy....

[CilverSeliST205]

I have never heard of such a thing. Do you have a link I could look at?

Nope, never heard of it either but such device SHOULD exist, I mean it would be too beneficial for turbo FWD cars to be able to manipulate power output is such way. Well I hope that in today's era of SRT4 someone will surely will see a great value to such device/feature, and some performance parts producer will surely relase a product capable of such WG control.

About them traction control computers, what are our options and on what principle do they work?

Maybe I will see if Carl wants to produce a set for a group buy....

Please do! I would certainly be down to get one of these

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: May 23, 2006 - 9:32 AM

[jgreening]

Nope, never heard of it either but such device SHOULD exist, I mean it would be too beneficial for turbo FWD cars to be able to manipulate power output is such way. Well I hope that in today's era of SRT4 someone will surely will see a great value to such device/feature, and some performance parts producer will surely relase a product capable of such WG control.

About them traction control computers, what are our options and on what principle do they work?

Maybe I will see if Carl wants to produce a set for a group buy....

Please do! I would certainly be down to get one of these

Racelogic Traction Control - the Supra guys swear by it.

Racelogic Traction Control

As for your wastegate device, in application, I do not think that it would work any differently from RPM dependent boost control since its not the onset of boost that causes problem but a boost point that the wheels spin at a given gear and RPM. Also, the list I created was one of realistic options - not pipedreams. j/k

I will put a feeler group buy thread together for the traction bars to see if there is sufficient interest before contacting Carl - he is just like any other business man - he will do it if there is money to be made.

[CilverSeliST205]

Racelogic Traction Control - the Supra guys swear by it.
Racelogic Traction Control

As for your wastegate device, in application, I do not think that it would work any differently from RPM dependent boost control since its not the onset of boost that causes problem but a boost point that the wheels spin at a given gear and RPM. Also, the list I created was one of realistic options - not pipedreams. j/k

Oh in my pipedream list of grip improvers i forgot to mention filling the tire tread grooves with superglue+egg yolk mixture that gives unlimited grip and positive tread wear

But all in all, you'r right, rpm dependent boost control... well apex'i avcr can do that right?? if it has sufficient memory for at least a two boost vs rpm maps then i will get the avcr instead of eboost2 since its cheaper.

I will put a feeler group buy thread together for the traction bars to see if there is sufficient interest before contacting Carl - he is just like any other business man - he will do it if there is money to be made.

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: May 23, 2006 - 11:10 AM

[jgreening]

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

5. Stiffer motor mounts
6. Stiffer suspension
7. Wastegate/spool-up control - progressive opening of the wastegate could be used to bring the boost up at slower rate - staying within traction limits
8. Limited slip diffrentials

9. Superglue and egg yolk tread application

[lagos]

You can't just drive around in slicks all the time kindasad.gif

are you saying that your traction problems are SO bad that you need something for everday use? i find that a little hard to belive. all you need is a good set of street tires and a little driver skill and you should have pretty good traction for anything you need to do on the street. most of the hard driving i do on the street starts out from a 2nd gear roll and i try to control the car with my right foot.


how exactly do traction bars work and where do they bolt on to? i always thought of them as something that sticks out from the back of the car to help reduce weight transfer.

[jgreening]

You can't just drive around in slicks all the time kindasad.gif

are you saying that your traction problems are SO bad that you need something for everday use? i find that a little hard to belive. all you need is a good set of street tires and a little driver skill and you should have pretty good traction for anything you need to do on the street. most of the hard driving i do on the street starts out from a 2nd gear roll and i try to control the car with my right foot.


how exactly do traction bars work and where do they bolt on to? i always thought of them as something that sticks out from the back of the car to help reduce weight transfer.

Art, its not that he has no choice but to spin the tires. He is saying that he cannot harness all of the power for quicker accelleration on the street. Frankly, I have this problem every time I get in my car. Its frustrating to dump all this money in a car and then not be able to use the power.

This is an excellent thread. Keep the info coming guys....no more pipe dreams though.

[presure2]

thing is art...you never really drive your car hard enough...lol j/k
you know what i mean tho...most guys that swap dont baby the car as much as you do, especially in the lower gears...
i know for me..anytime i get on it in 1st, or 2nd, traction IS a problem.
i think the idea of gear dependant boost control is a VERY viable option for guys like us.

[CilverSeliST205]

You can't just drive around in slicks all the time kindasad.gif

are you saying that your traction problems are SO bad that you need something for everday use? i find that a little hard to belive. all you need is a good set of street tires and a little driver skill and you should have pretty good traction for anything you need to do on the street. most of the hard driving i do on the street starts out from a 2nd gear roll and i try to control the car with my right foot.

Art, its not that he has no choice but to spin the tires. He is saying that he cannot harness all of the power for quicker accelleration on the street. Frankly, I have this problem every time I get in my car. Its frustrating to dump all this money in a car and then not be able to use the power.

Exactly !

how exactly do traction bars work and where do they bolt on to? i always thought of them as something that sticks out from the back of the car to help reduce weight transfer.

I started researching traction bars right after posting this topic and i found this info [Credits to John Pajak, Mike Bloomer for this information.]

Traction / No Hop Bars
The coil spring traction bars are actually upper control arm positioners. You don't see 'em unless you crawl under the car and actually look way up there.

They do make slapper-style bars for the GM coil spring A-bodies. I've heard they work great but would prefer the stealth of the upper control arm relocation type of traction device.

Traction bars are only for leaf spring cars because a leaf spring car the springs control the "bounce" and locate the axle. In a high hp car, the spring will twist between the axle and the front spring eye. What the traction bar does is make a solid link between the axle and frame when the axle tries to twist.

As far as coil spring cars, traction bars wouldn't do anything since you already have solid suspension links. Equivalents would run the gammut from ladder bars to lift bars and hop stop bars. Ladder bars are just that though I haven't seen them around for years. Basically they worked just like on a drag car but they didn't work all that great.

Lift bars and/or hop stop bars or upper bar relocators all work by revising the stock 4 link geometry. All the upper echelon drag cars with tube frames run 4 links and the GM 4 link can be made to work just as well. The lift bars usually replace the bottom bars and are popular for 5.0's (different susp design) but I think I have seen them for 64-78 A bodies.

The hop stop kits and upper bar relocators move the axle mount for the upper bar higher moving the instant center of the 4 link closer to the center of gravity of the car. With proper tuning, the factory 4 link can get enough traction to launch very hard (pull front wheels off the ground w/10" slicks) but to do so, it usually requires strip only modifications to soften up the suspension for wieght transfer. As far as looking good, most cars I've seen with traction bars look riduculous because it is actually rare to see one that's adjusted right.

[Kadett]

Racelogic Traction Control - the Supra guys swear by it.

Racelogic Traction Control

I will put a feeler group buy thread together for the traction bars to see if there is sufficient interest before contacting Carl - he is just like any other business man - he will do it if there is money to be made.

My car will be finished by the end of this week I hope. So from then on I can experience of I also have a lot of traction issues. If its are unbearable I will go for the Racelogic TCS rightaway. 18" tires cost a fortune here (the good one's)Not that thats the reason I want TC, the real reason is for the winter/rain period. Already had it with the 3S-GE engine on a Incline slippery conditions+worn tyres going backwards, what an ackward moment was that!

Biggest problem for me will be fitting the wheel sensors. since my car does not have ABS.
Maybe when the time comes, I will get a TRD/Kaaz 1,5 LSD. But I think to much mechanical grip will destroy the tranny in the long run. And spare/junkyard trannies are rare here.

About traction bars, if they are a direct fit for EU GT (which i think they will) I'am also interested but shipping would be a PITA.

[lagos]

thing is art...you never really drive your car hard enough...lol j/k
you know what i mean tho...most guys that swap dont baby the car as much as you do, especially in the lower gears...
i know for me..anytime i get on it in 1st, or 2nd, traction IS a problem.
i think the idea of gear dependant boost control is a VERY viable option for guys like us.

dont get me wrong, its a problem for me too, but i just think back at all the hard acceleration/racing that i have done and 80% of it was always from a roll. i would break loose for a few seconds but was alwasy able to regain the lost traction, by controling the throttle. i think most of it is all about the tires you put on the car. lets face it, most of us have tons of money thrown into our cars but alwasy cheap out on tire choice. i laugh when i see stock civics with better tires then i have..lol

This post has been edited by lagos: May 23, 2006 - 12:57 PM

[CilverSeliST205]

so, you launch the car at ever stop light and floor it all the way through 1st and 2nd when daily driving the car? lol

No the issue is not only launch, even on a roll at any rpm point in 1st and 2nd gear stompin WOT will make my wheels spin after i reach higher boost level

dont get me wrong, its a problem for me too, but i just think back at all the hard acceleration/racing that i have done and 80% of it was always from a roll. i would break loose for a few seconds but was alwasy able to regain the lost traction. i think most of it is all about the tires you put on the car. lets face it, most of us have tons of money thrown into our cars but alwasy cheap out on tire choice. i laugh when i see stock civics with better tires then i have..lol

Your right, but when i got my brand new yokahama parada spec2 (im not saying they are great or anything like that, but they are not bad either), I still had the same issue, and it feels as no street tires can handle that power...

[lagos]

what tire do they put on the stock SRT-4's?

No the issue is not only launch, even on a roll at any rpm point in 1st and 2nd gear stompin WOT will make my wheels spin after i reach higher boost level kindasad.gif

yeah, mine does the same thing... but i have a feeling that even if you turn the boost down to 7psi, it will still be enough to break you loose.

This post has been edited by lagos: May 23, 2006 - 1:24 PM

[CilverSeliST205]

what tire do they put on the stock SRT-4's?

BF Goodrich gForce-KDW, i think.

yeah, mine does the same thing... but i have a feeling that even if you turn the boost down to 7psi, it will still be enough to break you loose.

If so then the max boost is not the problem, but rather the speed of boost increase. And if so, then rpm dependent boost controllers should make a big difference...

[jgreening]

I nominate this thread for sticky.

[CilverSeliST205]

I nominate this thread for sticky.

Cool Lets keep the good info coming (traction related that is...)

A few great links for people who want to know about everything about differentials

http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pa...rential_101.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential6.htm

Boost controllers with rpm/tps/speed inputs :

TurboSmart E-Boost - http://www.turbosmart.com.au/index.php?id=42
A'PEXi AVCR - http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electroni...d=200&pageNum=1
Blitz SBC-iColor - http://www.blitz-performance.com/Blitz_SBC_iColor.htm
Greddy Profec E-01 - http://www.greddy.com/prod_profecE01.htm

And link to the group buy feeler, join in if you would be seriously interested so Jay's buddy can start making those
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...=0&#entry437529

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: May 24, 2006 - 3:04 PM

[jgreening]

Here is the Full-Race Article on traction bars:

Traction Bar Article

[presure2]

interesting reading, guys.
jay, how will this bolt to our cars?
im very interested to see where exactly this will bolt to, and how it will sit in the car.

[swerve]

Racelogic Traction Control - the Supra guys swear by it.

In regards to the racelogic traction control.

I spoke with the local distributor in Australia. Parts + Fitting = AUD$2900 (approx US$2150)

These things sound HOT!

The unit works by reading the wheel speeds sensors in the ABS setup (very easy to add the sonsor if you don't have ABS). It reads in 1/1000 second intervals so it is very responsive. When it detects a slip from the wheels speed sonsor, it skips an injector cycle (for all intents let just say this is like a misfire, but without the fuel).

The greatest thing about the unit is not only do you have 0% slip, 10% slip, 20% slip etc settings for the traction control buts you also get 2 other awesome features thrown in.

1. Launch Control (check out the racelogic site for the supra drag vid) Maintains a preset rev level for rising of boost prior to launch.

2. Flat shifting. a switch on the clutch pedal recognises the clutch is depressed, and limits the rev to a preset level with your foot still flat on the throttle (maintaining boost)

So whilst it seams pretty bloddy expensive, all 3 features make it a solution worth saving for, for my setup.

[CilverSeliST205]

Torque Damper (AKA Engine Damper) - I read somewhere that it is a way better alternative to stiffening motor mounts, because it has all the positives without the negatives (excessive vibration). I also read somewhere that kids in japan with budget fwd project cars will use just about any damper (for ex. bicycle or hatch) and custom fit it with little fabrication skill. Anyways here is short description of what torque damper is and what benefits it provides, from Ingalls website:

A self-contained elastomeric shock that mounts on brackets between the engine and the chassis. It reduces extreme engine movement and dampens the motion, providing many benefits. The “Stiffy” was originally intended for the sport compact market, but can be used for some Hot Rod applications if it is applied correctly.
Benefits
Greatly improved off-the-line acceleration
Reduced wheel hop
Improved vehicle stability
Reduced shock loads on driveline components
Smoother shifting
Reduced wear on exhaust system joints
Less vibration transmission to the driver compared to polyurethane motor mounts.
Less shock load, compared to torque straps and chains.
Drifting – helps reduce shock loads when wheels gain traction.
Reduces motor movement – decreases the chance of motor parts rubbing against
the hood and frame.

As far as I know there is no dampers for 6gc but I would love to see someone attempt to custom make one.

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: Jun 12, 2006 - 1:10 PM

[playr158]

those "stiffy's" are pretty universal...all you need is a bit of common sense and some sheet metal/bolt and you can mount it...probably a pretty easy application

[presure2]

Torque Damper (AKA Engine Damper) - I read somewhere that it is a way better alternative to stiffening motor mounts, because it has all the positives without the negatives (excessive vibration). I also read somewhere that kids in japan with budget fwd project cars will use just about any damper (for ex. bicycle or hatch) and custom fit it with little fabrication skill. Anyways here is short description of what torque damper is and what benefits it provides, from Ingalls website:

A self-contained elastomeric shock that mounts on brackets between the engine and the chassis. It reduces extreme engine movement and dampens the motion, providing many benefits. The “Stiffy” was originally intended for the sport compact market, but can be used for some Hot Rod applications if it is applied correctly.
Benefits
Greatly improved off-the-line acceleration
Reduced wheel hop
Improved vehicle stability
Reduced shock loads on driveline components
Smoother shifting
Reduced wear on exhaust system joints
Less vibration transmission to the driver compared to polyurethane motor mounts.
Less shock load, compared to torque straps and chains.
Drifting – helps reduce shock loads when wheels gain traction.
Reduces motor movement – decreases the chance of motor parts rubbing against
the hood and frame.

As far as I know there is no dampers for 6gc but I would love to see someone attempt to custom make one.

hrmmm...imma look into this somemore.. good stuff guys! keep it coming!
thinking about this abit more...(and after seeing the price..340$!!!) in the alltrac, it basicly has a torque bar going from the engine to the frame on the passanger side of the engine...i wonder how much somthing like that would help..that wouldnt be too hard to fabricate either....
JEFFFFFFF?????!?!?!

[lagos]

ive been thinking about adding an alltrac like torque bar to my motor, forever now.


you guys remember that really nice blue supra from the meets? he added one of those torque bars onto his car (similar to the pic above). he said he used something really cheap that he found on ebay and just had to custom fit it to work. ill have to ask him some more details about it next time i see him.

[playr158]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/INFINITI-AL...072718885QQrdZ1

[lagos]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PROJECTSILV...bayphotohosting

here is antoher one that might work . we would just need to figure out the measurements to make sure it will work for us

[playr158]

well with pretty much any shock...given a few hours i could come up with a bracket to place it in the right spot depends where you want to mount it though...firewall, strut housing?

[jgreening]

well with pretty much any shock...given a few hours i could come up with a bracket to place it in the right spot depends where you want to mount it though...firewall, strut housing?

I wouldn't mount a torque bar to the strut housing...LOL.

[lagos]

the bar should go in the same factory location as the stock alltrac one does. seeing as how the factory one is just a solid piece of metal, this would be a cool project/product for jeff, DG, or anyone else that can weld. it would also be a lot cheaper then anything on ebay.

fyi ... we cant use the factory alltrac one because its too short for our 6th gens.

you can see it in this pic. its connected to the top of the altinator bracket.



This post has been edited by lagos: Jun 12, 2006 - 2:39 PM

[Kadett]

What I find strange is that there isn't one on the ST205 engine. You should expect if they further evolve the engine a part like that is taken into consideration?!

[jgreening]

I think it would be better to mount a torque bar underneath the car and near the center of the engine. BTW, if you have poly mounts, I doubt that the addition of a torque bar is going to show any material improvement.

A torque bar serves the same purpose as poly mounts. Traction bars, which will be made by Speed Source for our cars, are different.

[CilverSeliST205]

For you guys with filled mounts, is there a significant increase in vibration over standard? Noticeable reduction of wheel hop? I was thinking about getting mine filled...

[Defgeph]

For you guys with filled mounts, is there a significant increase in vibration over standard? Noticeable reduction of wheel hop? I was thinking about getting mine filled...

I had alot of vibration when I first put them in, now its almost normal. I still get wheel hop with the new mounts, just at the track though. Maybe its the VHT.

[presure2]

ive noticed my filled mount starting to "chunk" out...wheelhop was still there, even with the mount, just not as bad...
it is getting worse again tho, maybe its time for another mount swap..i think i may try a diffrent filler this time.
the black roofing stuff dustin bought that one time seems to work really well..i think imma give one of those mounts a shot, see how it is.

[CilverSeliST205]

I think it would be better to mount a torque bar underneath the car and near the center of the engine. BTW, if you have poly mounts, I doubt that the addition of a torque bar is going to show any material improvement.

A torque bar serves the same purpose as poly mounts. Traction bars, which will be made by Speed Source for our cars, are different.

I read on rsxclub forums that quite a bit of people do torque damper + mounts combo saying that it decreases the wear on mount inserts and allows them to go on softer filler to maintain comfortable ride while still greatly reducing the wheel hop. Maybe you guys' inserts wouldn't need to be replaced so often with the use of that damper ?

[playr158]

well with pretty much any shock...given a few hours i could come up with a bracket to place it in the right spot depends where you want to mount it though...firewall, strut housing?

I wouldn't mount a torque bar to the strut housing...LOL.

sorry i was brain farting on terminology....i ment the same place where we mount the strut bar too....the frame/shell watever you want to call it is strong enough and i've seen on a few cars placed there...

but the way i see it is that the torque bars are ment to stop forward and backward movement so why not mount 1/2 on the back firewall that attach on each side of the motor? or sumthing of that nature

[phattyduck]

the bar should go in the same factory location as the stock alltrac one does. seeing as how the factory one is just a solid piece of metal, this would be a cool project/product for jeff, DG, or anyone else that can weld. it would also be a lot cheaper then anything on ebay.

fyi ... we cant use the factory alltrac one because its too short for our 6th gens.

you can see it in this pic. its connected to the top of the altinator bracket.

The factory all-trac piece just stiffens the mount on that side of the motor, it doesn't actually reduce engine movement, as far as I've seen. Are you sure you are correct that the part you pointed out actually is an engine damper?

-Charlie

[eggman40]

Its funny you guys mention the engine damper because i was thinking about yesterday. But what do you guys think about running a turbo xs dual stage boost controller? heres their description: Turbo xs dual stage - Its somewhere in the middle

"Dual Stage Boost Controller (BC-DSBC) US$249.00
The Dual Stage Boost Controller allows you to switch between two preset boost levels with the flip of a switch from inside the car. Got a high horsepower Front Wheel Drive turbocharged car that can't get off the line? Use the BC-DSBC to launch the car with low boost than switch to the second stage higher boost level for maximum top end power. "




I got mine in yesterday so ill post about my experience with it once installed. i paid 190 shipped for mine

This post has been edited by eggman40: Jun 13, 2006 - 3:23 PM

[jgreening]

Its funny you guys mention the engine damper because i was thinking about yesterday. But what do you guys think about running a turbo xs dual stage boost controller? heres their description: Turbo xs dual stage - Its somewhere in the middle

"Dual Stage Boost Controller (BC-DSBC) US$249.00
The Dual Stage Boost Controller allows you to switch between two preset boost levels with the flip of a switch from inside the car. Got a high horsepower Front Wheel Drive turbocharged car that can't get off the line? Use the BC-DSBC to launch the car with low boost than switch to the second stage higher boost level for maximum top end power. "




I got mine in yesterday so ill post about my experience with it once installed. i paid 190 shipped for mine

Unless the button is on the steering wheel, it will not help to have a dual stage boost controller if you are looking to use the first stage to reduce wheel spin on a WOT pull. Everything happens too fast. I have the Greddy Profec B Type I which has dual settings but the unit is dash mounted. There is NO WAY I could change settings in the middle of a WOT pull - it flat out would not be safe.

[lagos]

ive noticed my filled mount starting to "chunk" out...wheelhop was still there, even with the mount, just not as bad...
it is getting worse again tho, maybe its time for another mount swap..i think i may try a diffrent filler this time.
the black roofing stuff dustin bought that one time seems to work really well..i think imma give one of those mounts a shot, see how it is.

mine chunked out too. seems filling them last about 1 yr and then you have to redo them .

just wait a few weeks. we are going to have some proper poly inserts made for our cars. my motor mounts are being used as a prototype, but its going to take a few more week for them to start being made and sold.

[eggman40]

ive noticed my filled mount starting to "chunk" out...wheelhop was still there, even with the mount, just not as bad...
it is getting worse again tho, maybe its time for another mount swap..i think i may try a diffrent filler this time.
the black roofing stuff dustin bought that one time seems to work really well..i think imma give one of those mounts a shot, see how it is.

mine chunked out too. seems filling them last about 1 yr and then you have to redo them .

just wait a few weeks. we are going to have some proper poly inserts made for our cars. my motor mounts are being used as a prototype, but its going to take a few more week for them to start being made and sold.

do you think that insert will work with a JDM rear mount?

[lagos]

it will work for any car using GT front and rear mounts.

he also has alltrac inserts and ones for the mr2. so when its all done, i bet you can mix and match what you need.

[CilverSeliST205]

This 500whp SRT4 uses AVCR to control boost per RPM for better traction, no wheel spin in first on hard launch, little chirp in 2nd and 3rd :

SRT4 Forums

Lots of people on these forums are ignorant as hell so the thread is informationless other than this:

"constanly monitor tire spin anywhere through the RPM range in each gear , and dial it a little up or down either way , to find the exact spot where traction was present without tire spin."

"need to retune AVCR every time tire wears out to give in for more slip"

Just FYI

[jgreening]

This 500whp SRT4 uses AVCR to control boost per RPM for better traction, no wheel spin in first on hard launch, little chirp in 2nd and 3rd :

SRT4 Forums

Lots of people on these forums are ignorant as hell so the thread is informationless other than this:

"constanly monitor tire spin anywhere through the RPM range in each gear , and dial it a little up or down either way , to find the exact spot where traction was present without tire spin."

"need to retune AVCR every time tire wears out to give in for more slip"

Just FYI

Reading that thread makes me appreciate the 6gc community even more. A$$holes.

[Kadett]

This 500whp SRT4 uses AVCR to control boost per RPM for better traction, no wheel spin in first on hard launch, little chirp in 2nd and 3rd :

SRT4 Forums

Lots of people on these forums are ignorant as hell so the thread is informationless other than this:

"constanly monitor tire spin anywhere through the RPM range in each gear , and dial it a little up or down either way , to find the exact spot where traction was present without tire spin."

"need to retune AVCR every time tire wears out to give in for more slip"

Just FYI

Reading that thread makes me appreciate the 6gc community even more. A$$holes.

+1
BTW is it common on some US forums to have BIG Signatures damnz..