Keep warping rotors, im really frustrated!, Getting warped for the 3rd time Options

[eliaz]

Ok, so having replaced my front discs for the third time I can notice that the rotors is being warped again. I have only driven 250 miles with my new set and I can now feel that they (or maybe just one of them) are slightly warped. I replaced the new discs with OEM toyota discs and EBC greenstuff pads. I have noticed that the right disc is much warmer that the left one. Ok, so I thought that the caliper is stuck somehow. I have overhauled all four calipers about 6 months ago. Today I took out the caliper and both sylinders, all seems fine and the slide without any prob. I can push them into the caliper body with just my fingers! I tried a testrun without no braking at all and I can say for sure that the right disk are warm (let's say about 115F), so the caliper are not retreating fully? Not working 100%? I have no more ideas, I really hope someone can help me. I am getting really frustrated

Edit: Oh, I've been really careful when braking.

This post has been edited by eliaz: Jun 4, 2006 - 7:01 AM

[vsideboy]

make sure the hub is entirely flat and clean when you mount the rotor onto it. If it is not then it would feel like it is warped when it is just not sat flat. Get a dial test indicator and fasten the magnet part onto your strutt, then put the dial against the rotor so it is just touching, when you spin the rotor the needle on the dial shouldn't move very much, if it is moving then take off the rotor and put it on a different way, then try again. I can't push my pistons in by hand yet they work ok so your calipers sound fine.
OR
the master cylinder should slightly pull the pistons back into the caliper when you let off the brake so possibly the master cyclinder has a problem.

hope it helps.

[Bitter]

are your wheels torqued to the correct specs with the right pattern?
are all the mating surfaces flat?
did you bed the pads and burnish the rotors properly?
is the caliper piston sticking in its bore?
is the retracting seal worn out and not retracting?

do your brakes feel soft or mushy or do they feel normally firm?

[eliaz]

I've cleaned the hub before installing the new discs, but I don't know if it is entirely flat. Where can i get a dial test indicator?

are your wheels torqued to the correct specs with the right pattern?

Yes

are all the mating surfaces flat?

That I'm not 100% sure of

did you bed the pads and burnish the rotors properly?

Yup

is the caliper piston sticking in its bore?

Slides fine

is the retracting seal worn out and not retracting?

retracting seal? When I overhauled my calipers I bought OEM rebuild kits with gommets and new seals.


My brakes don't feel soft at all, they are really good exept from the vibrations caused by warped rotors.
My guess is the master cylinder Is it possible to get a rebuild kit for it?
Are there one piston per caliper in the master cylinder? My guess is that the master cylinder is not retracting the right caliper pistons like it should, because the disc on that side is getting warm without braking. Does that sound likely?

This post has been edited by eliaz: Jun 4, 2006 - 12:01 PM

[LewFX]

sounds like you got a bad wheel bearing causing this.

[eliaz]

How come the disc getting warm?

[celica101]

Dude check your brake hoses, mine did the same thing. turned out the brake hoses were hardened and falling apart from the inside out, and not releasing the fluid properly. they are like 80 bux for both sides

[eliaz]

Dude check your brake hoses, mine did the same thing. turned out the brake hoses were hardened and falling apart from the inside out, and not releasing the fluid properly. they are like 80 bux for both sides

Oh man! I thought of the same thing, but I somehow overlooked that for a possibility. How much of the brake hoses did you replace?
Just the ones from the wheelwell to the caliper?

Btw, I checked my wheel bearing just now, seems fine.

[LewFX]

seems like a seized up or (locked) hub and bearing because of the vibrations. any prob with that can cause the rotor to rotate at a slight angle. take off the wheel, use the lugs to keep rotor on, spin it and see if the rotor is moving straigh or if its crook'ed whens the last time you bleed the brakes? i also dont think toyota discs dont like ceramics i tried ceramics with oem and it didnt work, got brembos and ceramics was okay, now slotted and drilled rotors with ceramics and like it allot.

This post has been edited by LewFX: Jun 4, 2006 - 4:34 PM

[eliaz]

Bleed them about a week ago when I checked the caliper. Well, the stopping power is awsome, really good breaking. It is just the damn rotors beeing warped over and over again..! Last time the rotors got warped I used OEM pads and rotors

[soulshadow]

Stop drinking too much and quit dopping ! (im just kidding). Do not expect the celicas to have perfect braking capabilites, they were meant to be economy cars especially the ST USA versions.

All brakes and rotors will eventually become warped over the usage of braking left and right.
I suggest that when you put on new rotors and brakes you should step very hard on them every now and then to break them in. Also its most likely that your brake pads are one of the reasons that your rotors are warping a lot faster then usual.

[celica101]

yeah just the wheel well to the caliper

[purplegt4]

I suggest that when you put on new rotors and brakes you should step very hard on them every now and then to break them in.

i've heard the opposite.

[vsideboy]

I wouldn't step on them hard, I would just drive with my foot on the brake (light to medium pressure) for a few hundred yards, that should be enough to get rid of any coatings, I just replaced my front discs and found that the pads were only braking on the outside half inch of the disc, this caused alot of vibration but now they are worn to use most of the disc the vibration has gone, can you see if the pads are using all the disc?

Sorry, I could borrow a Dial Indicator from work, not sure where you could get hold of one, most engineering companies would have them if you knew someone that works in that kind of business? Or a less accurate way is to remove the caliper, but not the bracket the caliper fastens to, keep a couple of nuts on to hold the disc firmly against the hub and spin it whilst looking at the gaps between the caliper bracket and the disc, this should show you where it is moving, then you can take the disc off and have a check underneath it at the high point for any debris or if the hub looks slightly bent?

[eliaz]

All brakes and rotors will eventually become warped over the usage of braking left and right.

Not after 250 miles?

Do not expect the celicas to have perfect braking capabilites, they were meant to be economy cars especially the ST USA versions.

I have the 3S-GE powered GT

I suggest that when you put on new rotors and brakes you should step very hard on them every now and then to break them in.

i've heard the opposite.

I was really careful with my new set, braked very light in the brake-in period of the pads.

I just replaced my front discs and found that the pads were only braking on the outside half inch of the disc, this caused alot of vibration but now they are worn to use most of the disc the vibration has gone, can you see if the pads are using all the disc?

I think I had the same issue with my last set.

yeah just the wheel well to the caliper

I'll try to replace the brake hoses on both sides with some performance ones and see if I get a good result.
I'll also try the less accurte way to find out if the hub is bent somehow.

[SinisterWhisper]

I can't say I am having all that much luck with toyota's brakes either. I got my brakes checked about 6 months after I got my car and the dealership said I had 3/4 of my pads left. Mind you they had been squeeling so I thought it was the brake wear indicator, but they said it was just aftermarket pads. Well sure enough a few months later I go in again and they say all my brakes are ruined (I drive an st for christs sake). So 500 dollars later I had new yota oem brakes. That was in december and yesterday I noticed my brakes were squeeling slightly

[eliaz]

Did you put copper grease on back of the pads? Helps alot on squeeling

[eliaz]

So I called Toyota today and they said they had some problems with brake hoses not releasing the fluid properly. They aslo said that when this happened the caliper wouldn't suck back the cylinder properly. So I'm replacing my brake hoses, should I get some performance ones or just regular OEM?

[bindertch]

Go performance. You know you want to. Also If you have larger rims than stock you can also increase the chance that you will warp the rotors. Exact thing happened to my truck when I went up to 33" tires.

[DomGT]

If you go with aftermarket brake lines please let me know which product you choose. Thanks.

[eliaz]

Okay, I have talked to a couple mechanics and they drove my car a bit. They tell me it is the hub that is bent/warped. What do you thinK?

[LewFX]

sounds like i was right about the hub and bearing...mr. suspension knows allot

did u ever get in an accident and hit the side of the car or was it ever in an accident before you owned it? i had a similar case where i hit a curb, mechanics fixed what they saw, in the end they forgot the hub, it was bent and caused squeeking brakes and warped rotors..a simple test i did to make sure of this problem is:
1) jack that side
2) take off tire
3) put lugs on the spindle
4) hold a pencil up to rotor with a spare jack stand
5) have someone hold pencil
6) rotate the rotor
7) if the pencil marking skips during the rotation its bent
8) replace hub and bearing
9) do the happy joy joy dance and a sigh of relief

[eliaz]

mr. suspension knows allot

Lol!

Is it necessary to replace the wheelbearing too? It costs $ 360!
Thanks for the help, I'll try the pencil ting afterwards
Dunno if the car was in a accident before I owned it, but someone told me that if
the brakes got really hot just one time, the heat could warp the hub.

[LewFX]

most dealerships wont sell just a bearing without a hub

[Bitter]

you can get timken bearings from autozone. thats whats in my front wheels and they roll just fine. ive not really heard anything bad about them.

[eliaz]

Did the pencil trick on the rotor and hub, look what the result was:



So this is ..But I'm more like because now I know what
the problem is, but can it be something else than the hub/bearing?

most dealerships wont sell just a bearing without a hub

You were right again LewFX, I called Toyota today and they are going to replace both the hub and the bearing. No separate parts. Oh well, best to have it fixed right away.

[playr158]

if you keep warping rotors....are you sure your not just unknowingly riding your brakes?

[LewFX]

looks almost like mine before i got it fixed, trim the rotors again, sand the pads down a lil (or replace) and replace the hub and bearing

did you do a happy dance?

This post has been edited by LewFX: Jun 20, 2006 - 12:58 PM

[eliaz]

did you do a happy dance?

Not yet, I have to save step 9. I'll do one when the machanics have replaced hub and bearing. I'll even tape the dance for you,
good enough?

Oh, btw thanks for all the help!

[cheeco]

one other quick check you can do is check pedal free height and free play. if the pedal is over adjusted
it can cause the brakes to drag. free height is checked using a ruler, held next to and perpendicular to the
part you put your foot on, measure to the highest point on the ruler that the pedal reaches (without touching the pedal), try to make sure the ruler is touching the metal behind the carpet. here is a picture, look at page six of the br section.
note the specs are for a g35. i seem to have lost my dam chilton, so if anyone can post the specs thatd be great

http://www.g35frenzy.com/downloads/2004/04...manual/F/br.pdf

pedal free play is checked using the same set up, but wiggle the pedal up and down WITHOUT pushing
the brake booster. if there is no free play then the pedal is overadjusted.

[soulshadow]

have u checked to make sure that your Rims are not bent?

[eliaz]

Rims not bent. I haven't checked the pedal freeplay but I think it is fine. I can
move it a little before it starts braking.

[eliaz]

So today I have been really pissed of since i picked up my Celica at Toyota. They were going to replace hub and bearing. First thing when i came there they said that they had broke my abs sensor at the right wheel. Damn, that thing costs $184!! And guess who gotta pay??! Me!! I took the Celi out for a test drive and it feels a bit better, but i was not happy. I drove right back to the dealer and said that i was not very happy now. One mechanic came with me in the car, he drove and i think he liked it Anyway, he said the rotor was warped so there goes $92 again! I'm getting a new abs sensor and a new rotor on monday so i'll se how the Celi will be after that..

[WannabeGT4]

If they broke your ABS sensor make them pay for it. If they give you any trouble tell the manager that you should not have to pay for their mechanics incompetence, and that you could have done it yourself without breaking it. That is B.S. that they would make you pay for that.

BTW nopi has Brembo rotors for $21 ea. for the rears and $27 ea. for the fronts.

[eliaz]

They are not paying for it, they said that they had to remove the sensor and it was impossible to take it out without breaking it..Are brembos good?

[LewFX]

the only thing with nooopi is their shipping is realllllll slow. but yeah 21 bux is a hella deal and brembos are solid

[LewFX]

you always get them trimmed, find the cheapest place. no higher than $30 a side.

[cheeco]

They are not paying for it, they said that they had to remove the sensor and it was impossible to take it out without breaking it..Are brembos good?

this is a load of crap, DO NOT pay for the sensor, all the tech had to do was remove 3 10mm bolts and
unplug the sensor from up top to avoid breaking it.

[vsideboy]

I agree, if they broke it they pay!

[LewFX]

show them the removal process from a manual and argue that they didnt follow it and did it their way...if you got proof that it can be removed without breaking it then they should be liable.