adjustable cam gear for the 5sfe, anyone interested? Options

[presure2]

hey guys.

im working on having an adjustable cam gear made for the 5sfe, figured i'd throw it out there, see if anyone else is interested.

basicly, it will be a modifyed 5sfe cam gear, much like the ATS racing adjustable cam gears for the 3s.
heres a pic of the 3s gears.


aaron from ATS has agreed to make me a gear, for 110$.
im thinking if we can get 5 or more, we may be able to get a bit of a price break, but i cant garantee it.
i am 100% guessing here, but im thinking a 5-10whp gain from it.

lets discuss!

[AllTrac96]

IN IN IN!

[rzanology]

count me in....Will this help or hurt a turbo set up?

[DeW_H0e_GT]

in!!!!

[presure2]

glad to see there is some interest in this.
we will need to source some extra cam gears for this.
i will be taking a ride up to the local junkyard to pull a 5th gen gear, to see if they are the same.
if that is the case, extra gears will be as easy as taking a hammer 17mm wrench and a pair of snips to the junkyard.
the adjustable gear should be even more beneficial to a turbo application, with bigger gains up top.

[Starcraftjunkie]

So what kind of real life improvements will a regular GT or ST have?
And how hard is it to change the gears?

[presure2]

So what kind of real life improvements will a regular GT or ST have?
And how hard is it to change the gears?

this is not being made for the ST.
im guessing a 5-10whp gain.
the install is basicly part of a timing belt job, since the timing belt has to come off to get to it.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Im in Manny.

[freakyre33c]

ill buy too from u

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

What are the advantages in this over adjusting the timing? I don't have the cash to buy one from you, but I will attempt to make my own, and I garintee that. I'll make it even if there isn't much a difference. By the way, which direction is it that I turn the distibuter to advance time, clock or counter clock? Great job on the inovations btw.

[Batman722]

What are the advantages in this over adjusting the timing? I don't have the cash to buy one from you, but I will attempt to make my own, and I garintee that. I'll make it even if there isn't much a difference. By the way, which direction is it that I turn the distibuter to advance time, clock or counter clock? Great job on the inovations btw.

turning the distributor to the right (towards the back of the car) will advance the timing

I'm in

[lagos]

What are the advantages in this over adjusting the timing? I don't have the cash to buy one from you, but I will attempt to make my own, and I garintee that. I'll make it even if there isn't much a difference. By the way, which direction is it that I turn the distibuter to advance time, clock or counter clock? Great job on the inovations btw.

dont do it without a timing light.

[presure2]

What are the advantages in this over adjusting the timing? I don't have the cash to buy one from you, but I will attempt to make my own, and I garintee that. I'll make it even if there isn't much a difference. By the way, which direction is it that I turn the distibuter to advance time, clock or counter clock? Great job on the inovations btw.

well gee, thanks.
for the rest of you guys,
we have confirmed that the 5th gen and 6th gen cam gears are the same.
that makes getting a spare gear very easy.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I've already messed with the timing some. I thought it was clockwise that I needed to turn it, but it's nice to be sure. I still don't understand what could be gained out of a cam adjustment of a twist in the distributer.

[presure2]

because adjusting cam timing is diffrent than just turning the distributor.
google cam gear. there is plenty of info out there.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

because adjusting cam timing is diffrent than just turning the distributor.
google cam gear. there is plenty of info out there.

I can look else ware easily, but I thought it might help your selling them if you explained what exactly it is that they do. And this is in the engine/transmission/maintenance forum, and I'm asking an engine related questions. I don't know if you were really trying to be rude with that. I kind of took it that way. If I was new and seen that, it would have driven me off. This is supposed to be a place where we share info.

[presure2]

because adjusting cam timing is diffrent than just turning the distributor.
google cam gear. there is plenty of info out there.

I can look else ware easily, but I thought it might help your selling them if you explained what exactly it is that they do. And this is in the engine/transmission/maintenance forum, and I'm asking an engine related questions. I don't know if you were really trying to be rude with that. I kind of took it that way. If I was new and seen that, it would have driven me off. This is supposed to be a place where we share info.

naa, not trying to be rude...there is much more detailed info than what i can give you if you search google...im still learning just like you guys every day.
i know your not a noob, so i assumed youd understand what i meant.

[Rayme]

I've already messed with the timing some. I thought it was clockwise that I needed to turn it, but it's nice to be sure. I still don't understand what could be gained out of a cam adjustment of a twist in the distributer.

I think you are mistaking ignition timing with cam timing here? Is it possible?

[Hanyo]

Cam gear timing affects the way the exhaust and intake valves open and close. Ignition timing has nothing to do with this. Adjusting your distributor will not affect cam timing.

What adjustable cam gears do, are they allow you to delay or advance the opening or closing of the intake/exhaust valves. What they do allow you to do is delay the exhaust valves from closing to allow more engine scavanging. They will not affect how long the valves stay open.

First generation toyota VVt ( NOT VVTI-L) utilized cam advancements to increase performance of the N/a engines.

Cam adjustment alter the stock cam timing to get the most from modifications like upgraded camshafts, headwork, or alterations to compression ratios.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

With the exhaust being a slave cam, would I be able to adjust the single intake cam to maximize scavenging? I didn't really understand the reasoning behind ajusting the slave cam thing. If they were apart, you could delay the exhaust from closing. So distributer would adjust my spark and the cams adjust my fuel. Sounds like I would need at least a timing light if not a dyno run or 2 to maximize performance out of these things. I don't know how to go about it free hand, except for timing. Just adjust upward a small bit at a time.

[presure2]

With the exhaust being a slave cam, would I be able to adjust the single intake cam to maximize scavenging? I didn't really understand the reasoning behind ajusting the slave cam thing. If they were apart, you could delay the exhaust from closing. So distributer would adjust my spark and the cams adjust my fuel. Sounds like I would need at least a timing light if not a dyno run or 2 to maximize performance out of these things. I don't know how to go about it free hand, except for timing. Just adjust upward a small bit at a time.

cam timing is somthing you adjust on a dyno.
nuke from celicatech explained it pretty basicly like this :
basically you'll be able to tune the car like you would a single over had cam car... camshaft retard = more optimized for top end power, camshaft advance = more optimized for low end power
the timing light has nothing to do with cam timing.

[kenjamatic]

hey presure cams for the 5sfe is a great idea...i'm in...just keep us updated with the post..

This post has been edited by kenjamatic: Jun 9, 2006 - 5:26 PM

[Kwanza26]

I personally think the best way to do true cam timing is to make adjustable slave gears. That's all I'm gonna say on that topic.

[presure2]

I personally think the best way to do true cam timing is to make adjustable slave gears. That's all I'm gonna say on that topic.

dont leave me hangin on a thread, bee.
fill me IN!

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I personally think the best way to do true cam timing is to make adjustable slave gears. That's all I'm gonna say on that topic.

dont leave me hangin on a thread, bee.
fill me IN!

To make the slave adjustable, you'd have to cut off the gear, extend it, and make a lock for it. It's very possible if you had a machine that could cut that deep into it, and even. I think it might be easier to get two slave cams, cut the gear off of one, and cut the center out of another. Get an engraving tool and mark a few degrees. You could elongate the gear so you could put a few locker pins in it to hold it in place. It would be some real work. I’m not sure it would be worth it. The signal is a good bit less work.

[frosty]

you know, I wanted the ge head for control over both the intake and exhaust cams, but if you guys are devising a way to control the slave cam........

very nice.

[pimped6gen]

in in...order me one!

[celicak]

definately interrested. how difficult would this be for a novice? i mean i would have someone there to help me but just for a little guidance would i be able to do it myself? also would it be possable for a detailed install guide? i don't know how detailed that could be but just a thought.

[presure2]

definately interrested. how difficult would this be for a novice? i mean i would have someone there to help me but just for a little guidance would i be able to do it myself? also would it be possable for a detailed install guide? i don't know how detailed that could be but just a thought.

installing one of these will include removing the timing belt.
so think of it as a timing belt job, plus 1.
not exactly a "easy" job, but with some help, and the BGB, its not that difficult.
also, i spoke with ken from ATS yesterday, and aaron will make as many as we need.
i believe the price will be the same.
so, everyone who is "interested" or "in" needs to find a spare cam gear, so that we'll have them to send to aaron to make them.
im prolly gonna have 2 made to start with, one for myself, and one for Dustin (batman722) so that we can do some testing, and see what we can get in Turbo and N/A form.
ill update you guys as soon as i get my gear, and things progress.

[DeW_H0e_GT]

ok...do we need one cam gear for them to make one..or a pair????

[presure2]

ok...do we need one cam gear for them to make one..or a pair????

since we only have one gear, we only need one.
however, if you dont want to disassemble your car and wait for ATS to do the work and send it back to you, you can get a 5th or 6th gen gear from the junkyard. they are the same.

[soulshadow]

Adjustable Cam on a False DOHC (2 camshaft, single cam driven) is really out of the question. You could only generate so much power before everything is wasted on that single belt driven cam. In a way, its great for simple boost/ bolt on power which is great for many people cause that route is the simplest way to go, but if you guys really want power do a 3s swap. At least It won't backfire down the road and you won't regret dishing out $$ on that 5s engine.

[presure2]

Adjustable Cam on a False DOHC (2 camshaft, single cam driven) is really out of the question. You could only generate so much power before everything is wasted on that single belt driven cam. In a way, its great for simple boost/ bolt on power which is great for many people cause that route is the simplest way to go, but if you guys really want power do a 3s swap. At least It won't backfire down the road and you won't regret dishing out $$ on that 5s engine.

get out of my thread with your USLESS comments.

[AllTrac96]

totally agreed. here we have a member going out of his way to get something made for us 5s guys and your shutting him down.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

definately interrested. how difficult would this be for a novice? i mean i would have someone there to help me but just for a little guidance would i be able to do it myself? also would it be possable for a detailed install guide? i don't know how detailed that could be but just a thought.

I think the install would be fairly easy, but tune would be a 3-4 on a 1-5 scale. I'm considdering this a good bit, but the tuning is what I'm worried about.

Manny, I'd like to wate to see what you guys can get out of a NA 5sfe, and the specs for tuning one. Man, if you could get a good esimate on NA hp, and a tuning guide, you could really go big with this idea. Well, as long as it's a good gain and actually tunable.

[presure2]

definately interrested. how difficult would this be for a novice? i mean i would have someone there to help me but just for a little guidance would i be able to do it myself? also would it be possable for a detailed install guide? i don't know how detailed that could be but just a thought.

I think the install would be fairly easy, but tune would be a 3-4 on a 1-5 scale. I'm considdering this a good bit, but the tuning is what I'm worried about.

Manny, I'd like to wate to see what you guys can get out of a NA 5sfe, and the specs for tuning one. Man, if you could get a good esimate on NA hp, and a tuning guide, you could really go big with this idea. Well, as long as it's a good gain and actually tunable.

thats exactly what the plan is.
we'll be testing 2 of them to start with, one on my car and one on Dustins car.
we'll prolly try tuning dustins first, then mine.
once we do that, we will have solid before and after dynos, on back to back runs, with detailed info, so that there is no questions about what works and what doesnt.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

count another person in manny...not technically me but a friend of mine who has a 5th gen celica. when will all this go down? because me and my friend still have to pull the cam gear from my other friend's crashed 5th gen.

bboy

[frosty]

thats exactly what the plan is.
we'll be testing 2 of them to start with, one on my car and one on Dustins car.
we'll prolly try tuning dustins first, then mine.
once we do that, we will have solid before and after dynos, on back to back runs, with detailed info, so that there is no questions about what works and what doesnt.

Oy, I'm loving this.

[Kwanza26]

I personally think the best way to do true cam timing is to make adjustable slave gears. That's all I'm gonna say on that topic.

dont leave me hangin on a thread, bee.
fill me IN!

Nothin else to say really... cam gears are pretty subjective when it comes to making power. It's just a tuning tool after all... and what you get out of it is what you put in.

[rzanology]

im a lil scared of the rough idle i keep hearing about....but im all for the extra power.

any updates presure? Im like a a fat kid standing outside the candy shop looking in!

[presure2]

nope, not really. this, like most of my projects, is somthing thats gonna take time..lack of funds..lol

[rzanology]

oooh no we can't have that. what funds are needed? Im sure we can all put togeather to get this rolling. Send me a PM if you have to!

come on guys....this is for all of us!

[presure2]

na, man...this thing is not gonna be for your average guy..99% of the guys on this site will have no use for this.
in fact, I myself may not...after looking at the available gains with cams.
the cam-gear idea is somthing i decided to try, as a "hmmm, i wonder" kinda thing..
the more i research it, the more im finding out that it may be more work that its really worth. we will more than likely still give it a shot, just to say its somthing we explored, and to see what happens..but like i said, a cam gear on the 5s is not somthing thats a normal plug and play thing, its an involved process just to install it, never mind tuning it.
we'll see what happens over the summer. depending on how work goes, things could get REALLY interesting here over the coming months

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

we'll see what happens over the summer. depending on how work goes, things could get REALLY interesting here over the coming months

Uh oh, looks like Manny and Jenn are up to more 5SFTE trickery. Again I wish you luck with the project whatever you guys choose to do.

[rzanology]

moooonths??

i was hoping to get this thing installed tomorrow lol j/k

okay well...just keep us posted! This is the sort of stuff that makes toyota people known for the madness they do. Im sure you're not going to disappoint.

[presure2]

moooonths??

i was hoping to get this thing installed tomorrow lol j/k

okay well...just keep us posted! This is the sort of stuff that makes toyota people known for the madness they do. Im sure you're not going to disappoint.

if you really want one that bad, you can call or email aaron or ken from ATS racing, they'll do it for you, you just need to send them a core.

[TheStreetzKing]

i can grab some cams from the junkyard, got like 6 celica (5th and 6th included) if u need em

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

i can grab some cams from the junkyard, got like 6 celica (5th and 6th included) if u need em

I'd like to get one of those from you. I'll work independently from Manny, but will share all the info I acquire, if that's okay. I've been trying to find a cam gear so I can get started on this thing since I first saw this post.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Jun 20, 2006 - 10:42 PM