3sgte recirculated, Now with PICS! Options

[jgreening]

Today Carl at Speed Source made me a new intake so I could recirculate my Greddy BOV. Here are the results:

1. No more backfires
2. No more puffs of black smoke out my tail pipe
3. No more ricey BOV sound
4. Better response after shifting

All in all, a great mod - unless you like the sound (which I don't).

Here are the pics:





This post has been edited by jgreening: Jul 15, 2006 - 2:09 PM

[CheesyLobster]

wow. if i swap a 3s i will definately have to do this.

[zipstrips]

ive been wondering if any swappers were going to do this,, what BOV are you using?

[jgreening]

Greddy type RS

[lagos]

post pics...NOW!

ask him to make one for me! ive been wanting to do this for a while now.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 7, 2006 - 10:59 PM

[brianforster]

yes i too want a new intake, DO I SMELL GROUP BUY?

[lagos]

greening.... get us pics.... setup a group buy. get us a good deal!

[CelicaSTX02]

Yeah dude, I am down.....see if you could help us out. PLEASEEEE

[jgreening]

greening.... get us pics.... setup a group buy. get us a good deal!

I took some pics last night but haven't downloaded them from my camera. I will try to post them in the next day or two. I will not be setting up a group buy on intakes since I already have one. Also, this is a piece that might be better off made as a one-off since configurations could differ (battery relocation, other components, etc.).

[brianforster]

frowny face i just bought a stock mr2 intake so that i could route my pcv and IAC into the intake but its SO DAMN UNSIGHTLY

well.. atleast post pics so we cna try and replicate it, haha

This post has been edited by brianforster: Jul 12, 2006 - 12:18 PM

[lagos]

its cool ..ill just make my own. i got a spare section of 3in piping from my exhaust i can use. just wish i had a welder and a drill press at home

[brianforster]

i just wanna find out exactly how big the outlet of the turbo is and my car is in the shop

[Defgeph]

Nice Jay, can wait to see some pics.

[qatar11]

Is this different than the recirculation that already occurs in the 3rd gen 3SGTE?

[presure2]

Is this different than the recirculation that already occurs in the 3rd gen 3SGTE?

it works the same way mike.
the BPV on the 3rd gen, and jays recurclated BOV both just vent the air that gets released by the BPV/BOV bake into the intake stream, pre-turbo.

[qatar11]

Ah yes... now that you told me on IM that he has a 2nd gen.... it makes more sense..

[jgreening]

Is this different than the recirculation that already occurs in the 3rd gen 3SGTE?

it works the same way mike.
the BPV on the 3rd gen, and jays recurclated BOV both just vent the air that gets released by the BPV/BOV bake into the intake stream, pre-turbo.

My understanding is that 3rd gens do not have bpvs. They are speed density systems. The 2nd gen has a bpv stock in the MR2. Alltracs dont use one.

[Kadett]

Uhm so what do I have recirculating in my stock airbox??

[jgreening]

oops. I made a mistake. The difference in the speed density system is that BPV doesnt need to be recirculated to avoid the problems with an open BOV in a second gen. My apologies for the confusion.

[easternpiro1]

im really trying to keep up and learn something....but alas...once again...im confused! mr lagos? if you would? please?

[lagos]

so um yeah.... get off your ass and post some pics greening. its been 7 days! hahaha

[CelicaSTX02]

so um yeah.... get off your ass and post some pics greening. its been 7 days! hahaha

yeah Jgreen, stop denying us pictures

[jgreening]

Perhaps you guys missed this:

I will try to post them in the next day or two.

I still have 10 hours to make my self-imposed deadline

[playr158]

im really trying to keep up and learn something....but alas...once again...im confused! mr lagos? if you would? please?

BPV = by pass valve
BOV = blow off valve

these two things to inherently the exact same thing...the get rid of the air in the intercooler piping that is inbetween the throttle body and turbo between shifts and when you let off the gas
the difference is a BOV lets the air out into the atmosphere..this mean you will run rich for a very slight moment in time as the computer thinks it has more air then it really does and inserts too much fuel into the cylinders..
a BPV (stock version on Mr2 and so forth) does the exact same thing except when it releases the air out of the piping it shoots it down a pipe and back into the intake PRE turbo...this keeps the same amount of air in the system keeping your Air/Fuel at a consistent measure and improving throttle response..

when they refer to "recirculation kit" its basically an adaptor to the outlet of a blow off to connect it to a pipe and run it into the intake such as the stock BPV

hope your cleared up a little!

[jgreening]

bump for pics.

[playr158]

very nice and clean looking

[Kadett]

Nice... almost looks stock

[Defgeph]

sweet, looks great Jay

[brianforster]

now im even more jealous that you cant get these made.. that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV froownn

[lagos]

looks nice

[snapshotgt]

Clean.

[jgreening]

that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV

Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.

[jcbass7]

nice mod, how much does this kill the bov sound?



out of curiosity, what is that red thing behind your cruise control actuator, in front of your driver side strut tower

[jgreening]

nice mod, how much does this kill the bov sound?



out of curiosity, what is that red thing behind your cruise control actuator, in front of your driver side strut tower

1. completely
2. adjustable fuel pressure regulator

[brianforster]

that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV

Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.

lagos yelled at me when i said i wanted to vent mine to atmosphere!


well that and he linked me to an mr2oc thread and another thread, and he also made a good point that if it aint broke dont fix it.

plus im pretty sure your engine bay gets dirtier with it vented

[jgreening]

that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV

Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.

lagos yelled at me when i said i wanted to vent mine to atmosphere!


well that and he linked me to an mr2oc thread and another thread, and he also made a good point that if it aint broke dont fix it.

plus im pretty sure your engine bay gets dirtier with it vented

My general understanding is that the only benefit of connecting that to the intake is emissions related. I am not an expert on it though.

[lagos]

that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV

Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.

having the pcv system hooked up to the intake helps it work correctly, because the sucktion from the intake helps vent the pcv system correctly. here is some great info on how it all works.
http://autoshop101.com/forms/h63.pdf



This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 16, 2006 - 9:17 PM

[jgreening]

I read the info and the link and have some questions. I also want to talk theory for a bit but I am not challenging your knowledge in this area.

We know the blowby is mostly a gas / air mixture. We also know the AFM is designed to measure how much air is coming through the intake so the proper amount of fuel can be injected. Adding the blowby back into the post AFM metered air should essentially make a "richer" (i.e. air that contains some fuel) prior to going into the engine. Why would a plugged PCV (i.e. open to atmosphere / not allowing blowby back into the intake) make you have a rich condition as the information in the link indicates?

[phattyduck]

Why would a plugged PCV (i.e. open to atmosphere / not allowing blowby back into the intake) make you have a rich condition as the information in the link indicates?

The extra air that is escaping to atmosphere has been metered by the AFM... Therefore, the car thinks there is more air in the cylinders than there actually is. Any AFM/MAF car should have a completely closed intake (including PCV). This problem dissapears on MAP based ECUs (ie, high horsepower cars, 3rd gen 3s-gte, Hondas, etc).

-Charlie

[jgreening]

I don't understand. We are talking blowby here. The intake charge has already been ingested by the engine correct? The blowby is an air / fuel mixture.

I can tell you that my bogging, smoking, and backfires have all stopped despite my PCV vented to atmosphere.

From the information I have read tonight, it seems Art is correct that the rerouting back into the intake (or exhaust for that matter) serves as a vacuum source for the PCV to help the blowby exit. Another thing I don't understand is why a vacuum source is needed. I don't undertand why that air doesnt just escape without the vacuum source.

[lagos]

I don't understand. We are talking blowby here. The intake charge has already been ingested by the engine correct? The blowby is an air / fuel mixture.

I can tell you that my bogging, smoking, and backfires have all stopped despite my PCV vented to atmosphere.

From the information I have read tonight, it seems Art is correct that the rerouting back into the intake (or exhaust for that matter) serves as a vacuum source for the PCV to help the blowby exit. Another thing I don't understand is why a vacuum source is needed. I don't undertand why that air doesnt just escape without the vacuum source.

it does escape on its own... but the vac just assists it to let it do the job better and faster.

[jgreening]

I am not an expert on these things but I would be willing to bet that the "performance difference" in these options amounts to "mice nuts". I think the PCV system is installed for emissions purposes and there is little to no difference in performance if its vented or recirculated back into the intake. Maybe we should race and find out

[lagos]

I am not an expert on these things but I would be willing to bet that the "performance difference" in these options amounts to "mice nuts". I think the PCV system is installed for emissions purposes and there is little to no difference in performance if its vented or recirculated back into the intake. Maybe we should race and find out

yeah, this topic alwasy comes back to somone trying to justify their cool breather filter.



This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 17, 2006 - 1:29 AM

[jgreening]

I am not an expert on these things but I would be willing to bet that the "performance difference" in these options amounts to "mice nuts". I think the PCV system is installed for emissions purposes and there is little to no difference in performance if its vented or recirculated back into the intake. Maybe we should race and find out

yeah, this topic alwasy comes back to somone trying to justify their cool breather filter.

LOL. You ought to know me better than that. Show me some proof that it helps performance then maybe I will change my mind.

[lagos]

whats the benefit of venting it?


read the first two paragraphs about how those gases are bad for your engine. that alone would make me want to have mine hooked up the right way.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 17, 2006 - 1:28 AM

[jgreening]

whats the benefit of venting it?


read the first two paragraphs about how those gases are bad for your engine. that alone would make me want to have mine hooked up the right way.

The PCV system needs a vent. The only benefit over a rerouted line is cleaning up the engine bay and possibly avoiding a clog in the system (assuming that the filter is kept clean).

As for the first two paragraphs, keep in mind that the potential damage occurs if the blowby is not released - not if it isn't routed into the intake path.

[jgreening]

One other big advantage to the filter - less oil in your intake tract and going into your turbo.

[CilverSeliST205]

One other big advantage to the filter - less oil in your intake tract and going into your turbo.

Yea despite factory catch can i still need to clean my intercooler at least twice a year

[lagos]

this is one of those things people always debate about, no matter what the facts are.

ive had mine conected the factory way and never saw any negative issues with it. my ic piping and intercooler stay clean. so i dont know.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 17, 2006 - 2:01 PM

[jgreening]

this is one of those things people always debate about, no matter what the facts are.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't debate something "no matter what the facts are". I think the facts (at least to any performance or reliability differences) are not entirely clear here.

[playr158]

just so you guys can bicker more

"the negatives of PCV filters"

prt 1
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?p=1616409

prt 2
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=159457

have fun

[lagos]

this is one of those things people always debate about, no matter what the facts are.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't debate something "no matter what the facts are". I think the facts (at least to any performance or reliability differences) are not entirely clear here.

well. .. i didnt really mean it like that. what i ment was that you can show me some proof...but ill argue my point and vice versa. its one of those things that people never agree on.

[phattyduck]

I don't understand. We are talking blowby here. The intake charge has already been ingested by the engine correct? The blowby is an air / fuel mixture.

I can tell you that my bogging, smoking, and backfires have all stopped despite my PCV vented to atmosphere.

From the information I have read tonight, it seems Art is correct that the rerouting back into the intake (or exhaust for that matter) serves as a vacuum source for the PCV to help the blowby exit. Another thing I don't understand is why a vacuum source is needed. I don't undertand why that air doesnt just escape without the vacuum source.

The BOV is much more important that the PCV when it comes to how the car runs.

As a quick note, if you route the PCV to the exhaust, this only works on N/A cars with a fast-acting one way valve inline. The negative half of each exhaust pulse creates the vacuum. Turbo cars generally have pressurized exhaust (pre-turbo) or non-pulsing exhaust (post turbo) and thus cannot use that method.

The more vacuum there is in the crankcase, the better. The pistons actually have somewhat significant pumping losses moving the air around inside the motor. Big V8 drag cars often have specific vacuum pumps to keep the crankcase at a reasonable vacuum (and gain 10s of HP from it).

-Charlie

[jgreening]

Here's some good information with testing.

PCV Thread

I have only read the initial post so far but the results were interesting.

[celicast3sgte]

i cant help but want to play with your turbo... hehe im looking into a gt30r but its just really expensive. i mean i can afford it but the cheapest i found one was almost 1000$ new. ouchie

[99GT]

Bumping to read later...