7afte or 4agze? Options

[hashmaster52]

ok. i have an st and i dont have the $ or skills to do the 3s, so i want to either swap in a 4agze or turbo my 7a. i just wanted everyones input or opinions on wut to do. also, would a 4agze swap have the same hp as a 7afte? thx.

This post has been edited by hashmaster52: Sep 3, 2006 - 7:24 PM

[uberschall]

7afte is going to be as much work or more (rebuilt bottom end, custom header/downpipe, piping for tmic or fmic, a/f management, oil and water lines, etc.) than a 4agze. there is a good amount of aftermarket support for the 4a, and you'll probably get more reliable hp out of it.

as for hp, how close the numbers would be depends on too many turbo variables (what kind, boost pressure, eng managment, etc) to say. if you were to go big and run 9-10 lbs you could put up big numbers, but you'll need a huge amount of other engine upgrades too.

i vote 4agze.

[nik]

7afte is going to be as much work or more (rebuilt bottom end, custom header/downpipe, piping for tmic or fmic, a/f management, oil and water lines, etc.) than a 4agze. there is a good amount of aftermarket support for the 4a, and you'll probably get more reliable hp out of it.

as for hp, how close the numbers would be depends on too many turbo variables (what kind, boost pressure, eng managment, etc) to say. if you were to go big and run 9-10 lbs you could put up big numbers, but you'll need a huge amount of other engine upgrades too.

i vote 4agze.

ok doing a 7afte is no where near as hard a a full swap

for one you can run stock internals on 7afe and boost go look at the how to sections is covers a 7afte build you are right on the fact that the 4agze is more reiable for boost application but thats exactly what it was built for.

ive done the 7afte and a 7agte builds

in the end it comes down to your hp goals and what the car is used for track,drag or just DD

[hashmaster52]

well when i was searching, i read that the pistons of the 7a would handle boost fine and it was the rods that would break/go out. if thats true, then are there any aftermarket rods for the 7a?

[j0e_p3t]

what kinda condition is your 7a in?

[hashmaster52]

what kinda condition is your 7a in?

it runs hella good but it has 139k miles.....is that too much?

[Bitter]

as long as you take it easy and make sure your oil and oil pressure are good it should be ok. ideally you'd want a fresh engine, but it shouldnt be a huge issue at 140K miles. if its done right it'll last as long as it normally would have.

[hashmaster52]

how long u think the motor will last with the turbo? and also, i cant seem to find a good 4agze clip. i looked on ebay and found the engine and some other parts, but i dont know wut exactly i need for the swap.

[ExSane]

7afte is going to be as much work or more (rebuilt bottom end, custom header/downpipe, piping for tmic or fmic, a/f management, oil and water lines, etc.) than a 4agze. there is a good amount of aftermarket support for the 4a, and you'll probably get more reliable hp out of it.

as for hp, how close the numbers would be depends on too many turbo variables (what kind, boost pressure, eng managment, etc) to say. if you were to go big and run 9-10 lbs you could put up big numbers, but you'll need a huge amount of other engine upgrades too.

i vote 4agze.

ok doing a 7afte is no where near as hard a a full swap

for one you can run stock internals on 7afe and boost go look at the how to sections is covers a 7afte build you are right on the fact that the 4agze is more reiable for boost application but thats exactly what it was built for.

ive done the 7afte and a 7agte builds

in the end it comes down to your hp goals and what the car is used for track,drag or just DD

So Nik, can I run a custom built turbo setup for my 7AFE without changing out the pistons? I would love to add the Venom Fuel Pump and Venom Fuel Injectors as well as the Venom 400 with the turbo. I will also be using a 4AGE turbo header from ebay and running that with a t3/t4 turbo. Hhahahahah.

[airfron]

how long u think the motor will last with the turbo? and also, i cant seem to find a good 4agze clip. i looked on ebay and found the engine and some other parts, but i dont know wut exactly i need for the swap.

depending on your hp goals and the use you have in mind for your car the engine could last a week or longer than you want the car... depends on what you want


i think you should research a lot more if you are planning to swap... everything that you are asking has been asked before.. try doing a search and looking at posts that others have already asked...are you planning on doing it yourself or paying someone to do it for you

[j0e_p3t]

here's a site that someone posted a while back, if you've got the money.... 7afte

This post has been edited by j0e_p3t: Sep 4, 2006 - 2:02 AM

[ExSane]

here's a site that someone posted a while back, if you've got the money.... 7afte

That turbo manifold in that kit is such a bad design for exhaust flow. I'd rather stick with the 4AGE turbo manifold idea. The bolt patterns pretty much bolt up. In my opinion you are better off buying the parts seperately the way you want it and save more money that way.

Pic of 4AGE turbo manifold.


This post has been edited by ExSane: Sep 4, 2006 - 2:11 AM

[FallenHero]

7afte is going to be as much work or more (rebuilt bottom end, custom header/downpipe, piping for tmic or fmic, a/f management, oil and water lines, etc.) than a 4agze. there is a good amount of aftermarket support for the 4a, and you'll probably get more reliable hp out of it.

as for hp, how close the numbers would be depends on too many turbo variables (what kind, boost pressure, eng managment, etc) to say. if you were to go big and run 9-10 lbs you could put up big numbers, but you'll need a huge amount of other engine upgrades too.

i vote 4agze.

ok doing a 7afte is no where near as hard a a full swap

for one you can run stock internals on 7afe and boost go look at the how to sections is covers a 7afte build you are right on the fact that the 4agze is more reiable for boost application but thats exactly what it was built for.

ive done the 7afte and a 7agte builds

in the end it comes down to your hp goals and what the car is used for track,drag or just DD

So Nik, can I run a custom built turbo setup for my 7AFE without changing out the pistons? I would love to add the Venom Fuel Pump and Venom Fuel Injectors as well as the Venom 400 with the turbo. I will also be using a 4AGE turbo header from ebay and running that with a t3/t4 turbo. Hhahahahah.

Too much E-bay.

In terms of manifold, do what you wish. I personally will be running a log style unit.

T3\t4= too big for a 7afe. T3 is ok.

Most people run 8-9 psi on a stock 7a,,, which is all I would reccomend for a 139k mile 7a. with a fresh 7a, however, I hear 11 psi is streetable.

get a walbro supra fuel pump= just as good if not better and cheaper.

There are lots of injectors out there to use, the venom are the most expensive

The venom 400 unit is totally useless. get a FMU like a greddy unit or a apexi SAFC.

*** I also say you need a wide band 02 set up to tune the engine, to do otherwise is reckless ***

[nik]

here's a site that someone posted a while back, if you've got the money.... 7afte

Thats a kit for a 93-97 corolla which doesnt fit 100% on the celica so modification will be needed for it to fit correct

here's a site that someone posted a while back, if you've got the money.... 7afte

That turbo manifold in that kit is such a bad design for exhaust flow. I'd rather stick with the 4AGE turbo manifold idea. The bolt patterns pretty much bolt up. In my opinion you are better off buying the parts seperately the way you want it and save more money that way.

Pic of 4AGE turbo manifold.

the 4age manifold the outter pipes have to be cut and reweld to fit a 7afe flange also if you buy an ssauto one redo the welds than jet coat it

7afte is going to be as much work or more (rebuilt bottom end, custom header/downpipe, piping for tmic or fmic, a/f management, oil and water lines, etc.) than a 4agze. there is a good amount of aftermarket support for the 4a, and you'll probably get more reliable hp out of it.

as for hp, how close the numbers would be depends on too many turbo variables (what kind, boost pressure, eng managment, etc) to say. if you were to go big and run 9-10 lbs you could put up big numbers, but you'll need a huge amount of other engine upgrades too.

i vote 4agze.

ok doing a 7afte is no where near as hard a a full swap

for one you can run stock internals on 7afe and boost go look at the how to sections is covers a 7afte build you are right on the fact that the 4agze is more reiable for boost application but thats exactly what it was built for.

ive done the 7afte and a 7agte builds

in the end it comes down to your hp goals and what the car is used for track,drag or just DD

So Nik, can I run a custom built turbo setup for my 7AFE without changing out the pistons? I would love to add the Venom Fuel Pump and Venom Fuel Injectors as well as the Venom 400 with the turbo. I will also be using a 4AGE turbo header from ebay and running that with a t3/t4 turbo. Hhahahahah.

Too much E-bay.

In terms of manifold, do what you wish. I personally will be running a log style unit.

T3\t4= too big for a 7afe. T3 is ok.

Most people run 8-9 psi on a stock 7a,,, which is all I would reccomend for a 139k mile 7a. with a fresh 7a, however, I hear 11 psi is streetable.

get a walbro supra fuel pump= just as good if not better and cheaper.

There are lots of injectors out there to use, the venom are the most expensive

The venom 400 unit is totally useless. get a FMU like a greddy unit or a apexi SAFC.

*** I also say you need a wide band 02 set up to tune the engine, to do otherwise is reckless ***

as fallen stated i would go the fmu route or a FPR with 3 bar map sensor and bigger injectors

venom is overpriced

on the 7afte a t3 is better matched for how much the motor displaces a few of use have had good results with 50 trims and 60/super 60 trims in the t3 size

i would recommend a catch can also and start at 6 psi and go from there also go to the dyno to tune it if possible

This post has been edited by nik: Sep 5, 2006 - 2:25 PM

[uberschall]

if you're experienced, you could turbo a vespa reliably. if you're not, you either f#ck it up and it will never run right (or worse yet, never run), or you pay someone else to do it. anyone who has enough $$$ to have a 7afe turboed by a pro that doesn't go for a better engine instead, well....there's nothing anyone could have said that would have helped.

i gather that the candidate, while enthusiastic, is much like the rest of us: limited on cash, facilities, and experience in this venue, but looking for more hp.

you're never going to get reliability and power out of a turboed 7a unless you really know what you're doing, or have a way to get all the custom work and tuning done right. period. yes, it can be done...but not without some serious work. no, you technically never have to crack the head to bung a turbo setup on a car. seen it done, hell, i helped. never ran well and ate sh#t a month after completion.

sorry, i just don't think putting a turbo on a 140k motor that was never designed for boost is a good idea. there's no sense investing in a turbo setup if you're not going to rebuild the engine. which, if you were willing to do, is an undertaking at least on par with a full swap.

i didn't mean to piss anybody off.

This post has been edited by uberschall: Sep 6, 2006 - 9:45 AM

[hashmaster52]

if you're experienced, you could turbo a vespa reliably. if you're not, you either f#ck it up and it will never run right (or worse yet, never run), or you pay someone else to do it. anyone who has enough $$$ to have a 7afe turboed by a pro that doesn't go for a better engine instead, well....there's nothing anyone could have said that would have helped.

i gather that the candidate, while enthusiastic, is much like the rest of us: limited on cash, facilities, and experience in this venue, but looking for more hp.

you're never going to get reliability and power out of a turboed 7a unless you really know what you're doing, or have a way to get all the custom work and tuning done right. period. yes, it can be done...but not without some serious work. no, you technically never have to crack the head to bung a turbo setup on a car. seen it done, hell, i helped. never ran well and ate sh#t a month after completion.

sorry, i just don't think putting a turbo on a 140k motor that was never designed for boost is a bad idea. there's no sense investing in a turbo setup if you're not going to rebuild the engine. which, if you were willing to do, is an undertaking at least on par with a full swap.

i didn't mean to piss anybody off.

its koo. so should i just forget about getting high hp #s and jus get some bolt ons like a header and some pulleys, etc.? it would b a lil quicker right? and more reliable than if i turbo it. well thx for the input guys.

[NuclearHappineS]

if u want a spirited street car 4agze
if u want more power potential ... 7afte.

don't do headers and pullies
do turbo and pullies

-nuke

[celica3000]

check my celica is turbo kit (tsi) for corrola
you have to make modification
oil filter recolation kit by perma cool
gearbox valve put in other position
the turbo kit come with injector interface 2 injectors and injection control unit, maps (black box) conect to map sensor
etc ,etc

[FallenHero]

if u want a spirited street car 4agze
if u want more power potential ... 7afte.

don't do headers and pullies
do turbo and pullies

-nuke

well, not really.

Turbo 7afe has more whp than the majority of the 4ag dyno's I've seen. Most i see range from 160-180 whp with equally impressive torque numbers. That, allong side the full boost at 2k rpm that most 7afte's see makes for a very quick car. the 4ag (depending on generation) still has impressive power, but can make Vastly more power reliably than can a 7afe stock for stock (block wise).

They're just totally different engines.

amazingly, the 7a takes to boost like a 3 year old to candy.

[NuclearHappineS]

'stock for stock (block wise). '

I never said anything about a stock bottom end... I'm just talking about displacement and power potential

-nuke

[OOBE]

Too much E-bay.

In terms of manifold, do what you wish. I personally will be running a log style unit.

T3\t4= too big for a 7afe. T3 is ok.

Most people run 8-9 psi on a stock 7a,,, which is all I would reccomend for a 139k mile 7a. with a fresh 7a, however, I hear 11 psi is streetable.

get a walbro supra fuel pump= just as good if not better and cheaper.

There are lots of injectors out there to use, the venom are the most expensive

The venom 400 unit is totally useless. get a FMU like a greddy unit or a apexi SAFC.

*** I also say you need a wide band 02 set up to tune the engine, to do otherwise is reckless ***


Have you run a T3/TO4B (or E) in a 7A-FE to get to that conclusion? I have and both turbos spooled-up just fine and felt right at home with this crappy econo-engine. I am running 15 PSI on stock internals and as much as I try to break this engine, it won't happen...with turbo MX-6 injectors and a Walbro 255lph...and NO fuel management or tuning of any kind. People need to have experience on their own before just randomly spouting mis-information. Does anyone remember the old "7A-FE won't hold more than 7 PSI?" myth a few years ago when only two or three cats and me from celica.net were starting to mess with the 7A-FTE? LOL.


Oh, this T3/TO4B is too damn big for my 7A-FE.
http://media.putfile.com/Celica-Boosting-H...ega-Flow-Intake

If it's too big, how come it boosts 5 PSI by me just caressing the gas pedal with my foot? I was doing there what? Like 15-20 MPH? Hmmm.

[WH95TE]

What kind of numbers do you put down? and how much did it cost you.

My 7a has about a bit less then 95k

[OOBE]

I have never dynoed it or tuned it...the cost was about $6,000 in parts...maybe more...but it's because I had to re-do things, llike the turbo, piping, etc. But I tested with a low 14s Integra GS-R and beat it in less than an 1/8th of a mile...from a deadstop at 10 PSI IIRC. Also I tested against my buddy's Hyundai Accent with Tiburon 2.0L engine and a 75 shot of n/o...I pulled him very good. And a few stock WRXs...obviously pulled away before the quarter mile. Hardest was against a turbo Mazda3 SP5...couldn't pull on it until after 80 MPH or so...IIRC...he nailed it first and turbo lag got me...I was on O/D.

EDIT: So, obviously I am standing somewhere in the 14s...I wouldn't mind dyno-tuning it good and safe and leaving it at that...feels great the way it is...I mean, it's not my old 600HP Supra but it's still nice.

This post has been edited by OOBE: Sep 12, 2006 - 12:21 AM

[WH95TE]

Get it on a dyno! Im interested

[Kwanza26]

4AGZE because it's stronger and more buildable...

[OOBE]

^WORD. [/END OF THREAD].