Listen up Toyota... Options

[creamed_corn]

Get up off your conservative butts and make something fun. Right now you're the only car company out there with nothing even remotely sporty in your lineup.

There's a huge HUGE gap in the fun category between the $15,000 tC and the $35,000 IS.

What they need:

-proper two door, rear wheel drive sports car
-starting around $25,500
-2GR-FE plant to the tune of 300-320 horsepower (they'll wanna stay a little bit ahead of the Z and Mustang, knowing them).
-six speed close ratio gearbox, LSD standard, TCS optional
-Keep the weight reasonable at around 3300-3400lbs.
-I'd like to see gas mileage at around 22 city/30 highway. I'm gonna have a hard enough time keeping my foot off the gas as it is.

This is well within their reach and they need to do it. I've been living off my celica for too long. Ever since I got my new job I've been saving my money, just waiting for a car like this. I just can't bring myself to defect to another company, and if this doesn't happen soon, I'm going to be picking up an MR Sypder next summer.

[creamed_corn]

Oh, and no "Toyota only makes family cars" bullplop. Toyota is a automotive giant that needs to fill every market niche possible, and they know it.

Hell, bring back the Supra name even. That'll make it sell like wildfire. You don't make a monster V6 like the 2GR and then not put it in a sports car. Do we really need a 6-second camry and avalon right now? Imagine what it could do in a sports car...

[devilsden97]

end rant?


toyota has made more sales now more then EVER. End of story. Capitol is capitol no matter what your making. Toyota evaluated there standings in certain markets, and relized it wasnt WORTH the time, and (most importantly) the money.

edit: Proving my point, in the last month (i believe) Toyota has moved up to the #2 car manufacturer in the world. (only behind GM)

This post has been edited by devilsden97: Sep 10, 2006 - 6:25 PM

[purplegt4]

get a mr-s, drop a 2zz-ge.

[jdg371]

get a mr-s, drop a 2zz-ge.

and call it a cheap man's elise lol

[block]

i have to agree with creamed_corn...toyota needs a sports car...rwd...i mean they just dropped the celica and mr2 spyder...now they have nothin' but boring cars...i understand where they're going but they need to be more like honda and nissan...build one sport car! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

btw, putting a trd supercharger on a camry doesn't cut it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by block: Sep 10, 2006 - 6:41 PM

[netrata]

Toyota needs to bring back a vvt-i 3sge/3sgte-powered rear wheel drive "CELICA"!!!

[easternpiro1]

i totally agree. i called toyota one day and got the run around so i gave up. but there are rumors that there will be a new supra coming out! i heard it on THIS site... somebody remember what im talking about?

TOYOTA NEEDS TO STOP THE BULL@#$% the scion is their attempt at somethign sporty LOOKING. they just use it ot shut up the younger crowd who only want sho and no go. F#^@ THAT!!!

I SAY MUTINY!!! Coup de ta or however you say it!!!
sorry...creamed corn got me at a sore spot....

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Sep 10, 2006 - 6:46 PM

[Manta5x]

Toyota's current lack of sporty cars makes our Celicas more special.

[creamed_corn]

i totally agree. i called toyota one day and got the run around so i gave up. but there are rumors that there will be a new supra coming out! i heard it on THIS site... somebody remember what im talking about?

TOYOTA NEEDS TO STOP THE BULL@#$% the scion is their attempt at somethign sporty LOOKING. they just use it ot shut up the younger crowd who only want sho and no go. F#^@ THAT!!!

I SAY MUTINY!!! Coup de ta or however you say it!!!
sorry...creamed corn got me at a sore spot....

New Supra rumours have been circulating ever since the old one was discontinued here.

Plus I don't think Toyota is naive enough to consider Scions sporty. It's just their attempt to draw younger buyers to the company. Scions give you a lot of car for not a whole lot of money (as long as you don't care about power).

They should develop a 3S-GE with VVTL-i. It'd make Honda's F20C look like a child's toy.

[burneeed]

lol.... you can pipe dream and assume all you want but in all reality they will manufacture whatever makes them money. Right now its with sedans / scion crap.

When is the new supra comming out?

[easternpiro1]

good point. sedans are where the money is at toyota IS smart but still...i would like to meet the monkey(s) in a suit that decides what cars to put out....give em 2 pieces of my mind and a good swift kick in the arse...

[nixxx]

A second generation of desire....*sigh*

Supra 5th Generation


Should be powered by a V8 - 450bhp

[creamed_corn]

A second generation of desire....*sigh*

Supra 5th Generation


Should be powered by a V8 - 450bhp

As nice as a 450HP V8 would be, it would never realisitcally happen. Unless, perhaps, they cross-platformed it with Lexus as a new SC (lord knows they need one), but then where would that leave the LF-A?

And there are plenty of sales to be had in this segment. Ford sells over 150,000 Mustangs every year alone, and lets face it, they sell on name alone. There's a huge market out there, and I bet a Supra replacement could easily push 40,000 units annually. The 350Z, S2000, BMW Z roaders, Audi TT, etc... all these cars have been around a long time in one guise or another. Now Chevy is bringing back the Camaro and Dodge the Challenger. There is lasting power in the market. Toyota never learned effective sales management with sporty cars in north america, but boy... could they build them. They dreamt too big; now, with the market thriving and them poised to become the number one manufactureer in the world.... now is the time to do things right.

[team_omega]

somethings wrong with toyota....they be bringing back these sport cars and the more uglyier they get...look at it mr2 and celica.....toyota brought it back with a ugly ass body(MR-s,00 Celica)but some nice technology,IMO...and now they want to bring back the supra that looks almost like the Aston Martin Vantage....come on...i would prefer they not bring it back..

Edit: At least bring back the beast motors that we know of

This post has been edited by team_omega: Sep 10, 2006 - 7:38 PM

[sinner96ST]

You can thank the SUV's and gas prices for toyota's current direction.

Right now, they are catering to an older, more adult crowd. Back in the 90's there was a race to see who could produce a decent sports car, now that race is over, and obviously Toyota wasnt the winner.

I'm sick of the current line-up from Toyota, either you buy a tC or you buy an expensive $50,000 Lexus. There isn't any competition, they don't care, they want to keep pushing their best selling models because they know it 'works'. I was excited for the Scion line when I first heard it, but have any of you honestly looked at Scion accessories?

OMG! A NEON CUP HOLDER! A BLING BLANGING METAL GRILL FOOTREST! Neons = hp!

They tried to embrace the tuner culture with the Scion line, but actually exposed it's biggest faults : Gaudy aftermarket junk that only highlights the cheapness of the people who put it on their car.

Bottom line is : If you want a sports car in the next 5 years, you will not be buying one from Toyota.

[sinner96ST]

This is well within their reach and they need to do it. I've been living off my celica for too long. Ever since I got my new job I've been saving my money, just waiting for a car like this. I just can't bring myself to defect to another company, and if this doesn't happen soon, I'm going to be picking up an MR Sypder next summer.

I wouldn't even waste my time with one of them, to be quite honest.

Here's what you do if you really, really need to have a Toyota sports car (this is my plan if I ever get enough money to do it):

Buy yourself a used 91-93 MR-2 Turbo or N/A model somewhere. Doesn't matter where, just make sure it's cheap. Check for frame integrity, check for rust, make sure it's in somewhat decent condition. Expect to pay around 5 grand or so, depending on the condition.

Swap a Turbo motor in (it really is pretty much plug & play, way easier than our 6gc swaps), replace almost every single thing in the car. Suspension, brakes, wheels, body panels, etc. The hardest part about the swap is lifting the car off the ground to put the new engine & trans in.

Total cost would probably be around 10 grand, and you've got yourself a 225hp turbo'd beast of a mid engine rear wheel drive car. If you wasted your money on a newer MR-S, you'd still be stuck at 130hp and probably deeper in debt.


This post has been edited by sinner96ST: Sep 10, 2006 - 8:15 PM

[spolski07]

from the rumors i have read on the new "supra"
its gonna cost a pretty penny
its susposed to compete with the new GT-R coming out
price and everything
so its still not what toyota needs...


toyota: BRING BACK THE CELICA
and go back to the celica roots we all know and love!

[block]

that better not be the new supra...s2k and carrera combined lookalike...doesn't cut it...it has to be unique...oh well at least toyota is making money...haha that money better be used to built a super car!

[easternpiro1]

A second generation of desire....*sigh*

Supra 5th Generation


Should be powered by a V8 - 450bhp

that did NOT cheer me up.... sigh.....im glad im getting my swap... time for a sedan as a daily...

[block]

A second generation of desire....*sigh*

Supra 5th Generation


Should be powered by a V8 - 450bhp

that did NOT cheer me up.... sigh.....im glad im getting my swap... time for a sedan as a daily...

yeah same here.

02' 4runner - my family car

91' mr2 turbo - my fun car

94' celica gt - my cruising car

99' celica gt - my everyday car

i guess ill have to wait a long time...

[burneeed]

yes that is the same supra we have all been waiting for for god knows how long the rumors on all the toyota boards have been around. I thought it was suppost to be around this this month this year that car was going to make its comeback?

[nixxx]

well this is the pic of the last prototype i know of and in my opinion it looks pretty good. Will still have nice and sexy curves. I was afraid of a gap like the 6gen celicas to the 7gc...

Anyway rumors says that this next supra could cost between 50000$ and 70000$.....so ill stick with my 6gc for a while ;P

This post has been edited by nixxx: Sep 10, 2006 - 8:46 PM

[creamed_corn]

This is well within their reach and they need to do it. I've been living off my celica for too long. Ever since I got my new job I've been saving my money, just waiting for a car like this. I just can't bring myself to defect to another company, and if this doesn't happen soon, I'm going to be picking up an MR Sypder next summer.

I wouldn't even waste my time with one of them, to be quite honest.

Here's what you do if you really, really need to have a Toyota sports car (this is my plan if I ever get enough money to do it):

Buy yourself a used 91-93 MR-2 Turbo or N/A model somewhere. Doesn't matter where, just make sure it's cheap. Check for frame integrity, check for rust, make sure it's in somewhat decent condition. Expect to pay around 5 grand or so, depending on the condition.

Swap a Turbo motor in (it really is pretty much plug & play, way easier than our 6gc swaps), replace almost every single thing in the car. Suspension, brakes, wheels, body panels, etc. The hardest part about the swap is lifting the car off the ground to put the new engine & trans in.

Total cost would probably be around 10 grand, and you've got yourself a 225hp turbo'd beast of a mid engine rear wheel drive car. If you wasted your money on a newer MR-S, you'd still be stuck at 130hp and probably deeper in debt.

I used to have the same mentality, until I finally got to test an MRS and compare it to an MR2, and despite being the same in context, they are two COMPLETELY different cars. It's going to be a long time until there's something out there that is as balanced out-of-the-box as an MRS for your dollar. Anyone who doubts this needs to get past the looks and go drive one.

[slvr_celica_GT_8...]

they should have continued the celica line, instead of stopping it in '05

[uberschall]

as much as i love toyota, i can't really hand them the torch for a sportscar. the 7th gen celica was the best they've done in the US market since they axed the supra. and i hate 7th gens.

as much as i'd like to hope that they would build something like the supra concept on the link above, they'll never do it. it's far too hedonistic and expensive. toyota does not do stuff like that anymore. unlike the big three, they don't build cars as an all-or-nothing effort to save their a$$ in these tortured automotive times. (scoff...camaro? charger?) and besides, i'm not in, nor will i be in the near future, the position to buy a car that commands the price i think that car would.

IF they were to do anything...it would make the most sense to use a platform they already have...like the latest IS/altezza platform. the only reason they made THAT rwd, manual trans monstah is because they're interested in pulling sales out from under the germans. competing with ford, chevy, and chrysler is soooo low on their list...i mean, they've already proved that they build better cars. right now the japanese companies are ALL focusing on usurping the germans. and american trucks, but who cares?

anyway, i don't think they need to compete with the likes of the GT-R, either. people who know that they want that car would never buy a toyota instead anyway. that market is fickle...the $50-100K sports-coupe club is also densely poulated with cars you simply can't expect toyota to outdo, namely the porsche cayman, bmw m-coupe, and the corvette (like it or not!). they'd never take that risk.

they SHOULD tackle the sub-35k market though...which is well within their reach. take the IS platform, like i mentioned before.....and finesse it. shorter wheelbase, wider track. two doors. use the same powerplants. no sense tuning them for 10-15 more bhp to differentiate them from the sedans...anyone who wants more power is going to get it themselves anyway. keep the costs down. they could aim squarely for the entry-level sports-coupe segment, where the 350z, crossfire, tt, and 3-series hang out. they could do it.

will they?

probably not.

[Rayme]

Toyota is a business, business is to make money, they are currently VERY good at it...they don't NEED a sports car..and they damn well know it!!!

(the most sporty car toyota has now would be the corolla xr-s)

Though, we cann all dream of something to really compete with the good 4 cylinders right now

This post has been edited by Rayme: Sep 10, 2006 - 11:36 PM

[j0e_p3t]

they should have brought the gt-four to america. i'd buy that over an evo or sti, or even the almighty mkiv supra. i try to be faithful to toyota, but its hard when all they have are boring family cars with too much hp that soccer moms will never need.

[Zimluura]

2nded on "toyota should've brought the 6th gen gt4 to america"
6gc is a sexy car. way sexier than sti or evo. imo supra is less sexy too, it's rear quarter window is nice (exactly like a 5gc actually), but it doesn't have the 4 eyes, and wide hips that the 6gc has.

hoping for my engine swap + awd conversion someday.

[neoklis]

Most of the opinions above are correct. The thing is how many of you would buy a brand new Celica for around $30k or so? I would buy a used Toyo or Lexus any day but to shed all that dough for a new car, it really has to be something special.
My question is why toyota is spending so many millions in F1 and so many other racing events when they do not have a line up of sports cars. I have read somewher that they will be selling a tuners version of the TC as they have finally understood that for most of us the dealer options do not quite cut it. I think this is good because plenty of us would like to buy a car as stock as possible at a fairly low price but with great potential. Wheels is the first thing that gets changed and then the sound system. the car alarm is also one area where i would prefer to chose my self.

[block]

Toyota is a business, business is to make money, they are currently VERY good at it...they don't NEED a sports car..and they damn well know it!!!

(the most sporty car toyota has now would be the corolla xr-s)

Though, we cann all dream of something to really compete with the good 4 cylinders right now

sory to burst your bubble but XRS is discontinued. sad but true! only about 1500 were made. now its just a damn rare car! ugh

[rzanology]

well....maybe its just me...but i look at lexus and scion as a toyota much like any other toyota. And when you look at them as a whole i dont think they need a sports car. Like the TC or not...that thing is doing a good job....people are pulling 500hp out of those things now...and thats something to brag about! Then you have the IS....i love the IS...i've always loved them. if i were to get another car it would be an IS....sure its a sedan...but damn thats a sexy sporty car. as far as 2 door...i dont think the TC is too bad at all.

[uberschall]

ha, i hate to continue, but....

i did some thinking. toyota's current catchphrase is "moving forward" and i think that says everything we need to know. thats what they do at toyota. move forward. constantly. they don't re-draft old ideas, reinvent old models, or do something they stopped a second time. with the exception of the fj cruiser (the only retro-themed car i think they've ever made), when toyota stops making a car, they stop making that car.

unlike the big three, who continually rename and reinvent cars to try and find new audiences (ex: escort into focus, old mustang look onto new mustang, charger from 2-dr muscle to 4-dr flab, etc.), toyota, honda, and all their peers stick with things that work. the camry, corolla, 4runner, accord, civic, and plenty of others have remained unchanged (in name and category) for decades.

toyota continues to make the camry, for example, because it makes them money, keeps with their reputation for quality and somber performance, and solid sales. they axed the celica because it wasn't the car they wanted it to be anymore. i don't think they'll ever try to reinvent it because they're "moving forward."

i have to say though, neoklis has a really good point about the racing thing....they really don't have a flagship sportscar to ride the coattails of a successful racing team. i suppose it's mostly the truck market they're trying to take.

good talk, guys. what a thread jack, though. sorry about that.

[block]

they brought back the mr2...but non turbo/slow/spyder/etc etc...claimed it to be a 6 sec car but actually its an 8 sec car...heheh silly toyota...!....but yeah im done..

[TomPoz]

Yeah, yeah. We all want new Celica. Preferably AWD with at least 2.0 turbocharged engine. But there will not be one. Accept this. With such requirements we are doomed to Imprezas and Lancers EVO, damn sedans (on Saturday I experienced 94 GT4 making 13,8 sec 1/4 mile run with power below 300 bhp, while brand new EVO IX powered up to 340 bhp was hitting low 13s, pffft).

I've heard that spirit of Celica is to be brought back by some new Scion, do not remember the name - coupe with 2.4 n/a 165 bhp engine. Looks like Chrysler Crossfire on steroids. Disaster.

[Mynzeyes]

this thread is useless.

[Akimbo]

if it ain't broke...

[Mynzeyes]

this thread is useless.

you all also realize they have the TRD blower for the tC, right?

Toyota = smarter than anyone on this board. period.

[uberschall]

mynzeyes = a god amongst insects

[jess_i_74]

Woohoo, a TRD blower for a FWD car! Woo! 200 hp! Woo!

I'm so excited! Woo!

</sarcasm>

[SinisterWhisper]

This is a pointless thread. A bunch of diehards whinning because their car got axed. Seriously who cares what toyota makes? We own 6th gens if we didn't we wouldn't be on this forum. Love your car and if you don't get one that you will.

[rzanology]

nothing wrong with this thread. when we bought a Toyota we earned the right to speculate and criticize. The man is just expressing how he feels about a company that he helps drive forward.

I don't think we'll see anything like the celica under the Toyota name any time soon. If they do they'd have to match the power of the rsx and other cars in that category. I think the TC is doing a good job at this. Besides...it would be too expensive....I thought that's the reason the gt4 was never brought over to the states.

[celica47]

How can that be? Is it that people in Japan and other European countries make more money than people in America?

[saleeka]

Emissions, cough, emissions...

That and the very unfavorable exchange rate at the time

This post has been edited by saleeka: Sep 11, 2006 - 2:29 PM

[Mynzeyes]

nothing wrong with this thread. when we bought a Toyota we earned the right to speculate and criticize. The man is just expressing how he feels about a company that he helps drive forward.

I don't think we'll see anything like the celica under the Toyota name any time soon. If they do they'd have to match the power of the rsx and other cars in that category. I think the TC is doing a good job at this. Besides...it would be too expensive....I thought that's the reason the gt4 was never brought over to the states.

you didn't buy stock. you bought a consumer good. that's like me saying that sony isn't being intelligent about the electronics they are coming out with. the right to speculate and criticizie is inherent in everyone, no matter what they own. only when you own a substantial portion of the company does it actually matter, however.

i.e. this thread is useless.

[saleeka]

The "moving forward" concept is right in line with their actions, I must say. When Toyota DID have a sportscar lineup, nobody bought the cars... All-Tracs, MR2 Turbos, Supras... None registered anything more than a blip on the sales charts compared to other Toyotas... and that brings us to here, and the 100,000+ a year selling Prius...

[rzanology]

sony is killing the ps3 because they are pushing the blue ray technology. share holders are saying "great we'll shock the world with this...gamers are saying "600? f'k that!"

point? consumer or share holder....your rants and raves should be heard all the same way....you're all speaking for the good on one thing...the product!

again...the thread is not useless....it was posted in the General Discussion section and it is a good discussion for a dead day of posting any way. if you're not interested then just don't read it my friend.

[Mynzeyes]

sony is killing the ps3 because they are pushing the blue ray technology. share holders are saying "great we'll shock the world with this...gamers are saying "600? f'k that!"

point? consumer or share holder....your rants and raves should be heard all the same way....you're all speaking for the good on one thing...the product!

again...the thread is not useless....it was posted in the General Discussion section and it is a good discussion for a dead day of posting any way. if you're not interested then just don't read it my friend.

people on this board do not make up anywhere near toyota's target consumer. the majority of this board is a bunch of 16 to 20 year old dreamers. should they produce a car that fits all of the aforementioned criteria, very very few people in this community would even be able to afford it. even then, not everyone would be satisfied. toyota cannot please everyone all of the time. they can only please the majority of people, the majority of the time. they are better at business than anyone on this board. they know what they are doing. that is my argument as to why this thread is useless. i don't think a thread with 40 replies on a board of 6000+ members will make toyota rethink their business model.

[fastgt]

toyota was smart to pull their sports cars...they know they werent selling well so they put efforts into their econo boxes that ARE selling well....its not that they cant a develope a great sports car (we know they can) but they know the market better than us...and they will only make what sells.


but nowadays sports cars are coming back...i would love to see toyota put out a sports car that would make nissan sh*t bricks....

i love my Z and its been one of the 10 best selling sports cars for the last 4 years....but toyota needs to step up

[saleeka]

i love my Z and its been one of the 10 best selling sports cars for the last 4 years....

what are the other 9? Theres the rest of the sportscar marketplace

[Mynzeyes]

i love my Z and its been one of the 10 best selling sports cars for the last 4 years....

what are the other 9? Theres the rest of the sportscar marketplace

Not in the $25k price range.

[fastgt]

off the top of my head i remember the corvette, 911....cant remember anymore....the z is in the 27-40k market you wont find any cars under that price on that list

[WH95TE]

that's like me saying that sony isn't being intelligent about the electronics they are coming out with.

Well that much is true They dont know what Europe is... http://www.thisiswaiting.com/

[hitcachi]

I figure that i might add a comment here also.
Take a look at the time period in which the MK4 supra and 6th/7th gen celicas were around. What was happening? The SUV craze of the mid to late 90's. Some very good tuner cars died at that time. Although being extremely popular the first 5 generations, the celica began to lose ground from 93 on up, because there was little intrest in cars of its nature due to the rise of the gas guzzling SUV. Supra sales also slowly melted away. And as for the 7th gen, despite the 2ZZ being a fantastic and (as dan put it) a real high revving performance engine, it was to overpriced and to underpowered. I do believe that right now, we are seeing a resurgence of higher performance cars again. (Mustang, Camaro, Charger, Challenger, 350Z) I think that this COULD have an affect on some decisions being made by car compaines (i.e. Toyota) Now, am I saying that, "By me saying this, Toyota will look at it and make different choices!" No. I am saying that, if you take a look at some recent events, like oil prices now climbing higher then ever thus makin larger vehicles even more impractical, you would see that Toyota, being as smart as they are, definitly sees this also. Now, its just time to be patient.

[fastgt]

i think toyota really shot themselves in the feet by overpricing the supra/celica/mr2

[tomazws]

One simple solution, just bring the turboed AWD Corolla hatchback rally car to America...

[fastgt]

One simple solution, just bring the turboed AWD Corolla hatchback rally car to America...

no the rolla is widely known as an econo box here in the states there are only a few that know its rally heritage....the car wouldnt sell here

[laff09]

I am saying that, if you take a look at some recent events, like oil prices now climbing higher then ever thus makin larger vehicles even more impractical, you would see that Toyota, being as smart as they are, definitly sees this also. Now, its just time to be patient.

Uhh gas is down at least 75 cents in the last 3 months...... and expected to continue decreasing...

[creamed_corn]

Uh, yea, I started this thread, and I wasn't whining about how the Celica got axed and how I want it back so badly.

I just am brand loyal to a company that dissapoints me increasingly, and I wish they'd bring something out to get excited voer for a change. I have a friend who put it best: "A part of you feels better about buying a car from a company when you know they have a kick-ass sports car to be associated with it that you can brag up. Like I'm sure Chevy has sold a few more cars because they're associated with the Corvette."

Yea, toyota needs that car.

And I'd gladly pay damn good money for it. I'm not in the 16-21 high school/college demographic on this board. If they made what I wanted, I'd be the first guy in line at the dealership putting a deposit down.

Bottom line: sports cars DO sell when done right and the sales expecations are modulated correctly; AND they don't have to be gas guzzlers to be fun and fast.

[celica47]

^enuf said

[easternpiro1]

sony is killing the ps3 because they are pushing the blue ray technology. share holders are saying "great we'll shock the world with this...gamers are saying "600? f'k that!"

point? consumer or share holder....your rants and raves should be heard all the same way....you're all speaking for the good on one thing...the product!

again...the thread is not useless....it was posted in the General Discussion section and it is a good discussion for a dead day of posting any way. if you're not interested then just don't read it my friend.

^^^^AMEN!


so... this is a forum...and this forum is to post opinions...saying a thread is usless is like saying someone's opinion dosent matter...not true. lets continue the bitching and whining gentlemen!

no hard feelings to the naysayers...

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Sep 11, 2006 - 10:27 PM

[hitcachi]

I am saying that, if you take a look at some recent events, like oil prices now climbing higher then ever thus makin larger vehicles even more impractical, you would see that Toyota, being as smart as they are, definitly sees this also. Now, its just time to be patient.

Uhh gas is down at least 75 cents in the last 3 months...... and expected to continue decreasing...

yes..... becasue thats going to continue for a significant amount of time.... Bring this thread back at this time next year and tell me whats going on. You cant design a brand new car in a couple months.

[fastgt]

if people have such a big problem with the high oil prices why not just invest in the oil companies and stop worrying about it

[Kwanza26]

No point in arguing over this. There's simply not enough money nor incentive for Toyota to pursue competing in this market... at least not here in the US. Frankly... I personally could care less either way. So long as the car looks good and drives alright... yay! It doesn't have to have a Toyota badge for it to be a good sports car... so try a different maker if you want that sporty feel eh?

[rzanology]

very good points made. maybe we're really in the era of sedans....from Toyota at lease. but we can all agree that it was a hell of a run. and for what it is worth our old celis along with all over performance Toyotas still stand high in the performance scene. Those rumors of the new supra is good news to us all...BUT!!!....at a price. that’s okay. why is it ok? you're asking Michael Jordan to come back out one more time and do that dunk that has been logoed on every last one of his shoes....so you could expect to pay a price for that. Like some one said before in the post.....this makes our celies even THAT much more valuable. Let enjoy them and ride these fkers to the wheels fall off!!! good day people!

[OOBE]

Toyota is getting loaded on Prius and Camry cars. They are not even thinking about the MKV Supra anymore. They are making money...instead of catering to sports car fans, they get more revenue selling comfortable grocery getters and fuel-efficient hybrids. They're playing it right. We are just a little portion of Toyota's pie...hell...we're not, because most of us bought our cars used...we didn't even make them money.

[sinner96ST]

This thread does matter, it shows that Toyota does indeed have a dedicated base to the 'last' of the sports cars that they produced.

If you sit here and tell me there isnt traffic on any Celica, MR2, or Supra sites, you'd be a god damned liar. We're all customers, whether or not you believe it. The majority of us are all potential buyers of a new sports car if they were to release one.

The problem is, that they haven't released anything *in comparison* to other car manufacturers. Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subrau, they've all got their powerful little sports cars, while Toyota is stuck with the 2k Celica & MR-S.

Nobody is whining in this thread. I like Toyota, I believe in their craftsmanship & dependability. I want to see more of the same like we had back in the 90's. End of story. I'm not whining, I'm not wishing, I'm simply stating that I'm disappointed that Toyota isn't producing anything worthy of every single one of my paychecks.

I'm a 26 year old guy, and I like speed. I don't like sedan's or SUV's, but I like Toyota. So, what do I do? The tC does not deliver, netiher does anything else that they have in the market. So, this means i'm starting to look to other car manufacturers, potentially losing Toyota a sale on a car that they *SHOULD* be selling.

That's what this thread is all about. We want more, they aren't giving it to us. So, in the future, when we're all ready to get rid of the 6th gen's, we will be looking at other manufacturers for a sports car. That's the reality of it.

This post has been edited by sinner96ST: Sep 12, 2006 - 1:08 PM

[OOBE]

They could care less about how many "Toyota fans" frequent online forums. All they care is about the real people going to dealerships and buying their cars, my brother. Words or intentions mean nothing, they want to see something concrete...like $$$.

[sinner96ST]

Well, we're still Toyota drivers whether or not that matters. I think it does.

If we're all fans of Toyota, chances are we'd buy something from them in the future. Surely I still make Toyota money by purchasing genuine parts from them, which I've done plenty of times.

I love the brand, I just don't like where it's going. I do agree with you though, money talks.

[boosted_K2]

seriously good god, how many of you could and would ACTUALLY have the available funds to go out and puchase a new sports car tomorrow if toyota put one out? how bout within 6 months? they arent going to cater to dreamers and an unrealist illusion of what most of us think is a "reasonable" price for the type of vehicle. toyota has no intrest sinking funds into projects that wont net much gain. they will just continue to facelift their current product just like cher and madonna until sales begin to decline then they will start over with new product (IE: celica/mrs to scion products). i love the looks of all the new toyotas out there, i think the camry, solara, corolla, hell even the new avalon look fantastic. its the age of the revamping of the midsized family sedan... they missed the boat on the sports car revolution that is likely to begin fading again. however they along with nissan are ahead of the game on the midsized sedans and it shows, skip one fad to be ahead on the next, and if you are looking at profitability theres a lot more of it available in the midsized sedan segment then there is in sports cars.

yaawn... just bored and taking my swing at it.

[boosted_K2]

for anyone who want to argue: fact (from autonews.com)

Best selling vehicles from 2005:

1. Ford F-Series (includes F-150, F-250 Super Duty and F-350 Super Duty) — 901,463


2. Chevrolet Silverado (includes 1500, 1500 Classic, 1500 SS, 1500 SS Classic, 1500HD, 1500HD Classic, 2500HD, 2500HD Classic, 3500, 3500 Classic) — 705,891


3. Toyota Camry, Camry Hybrid and Camry Solara — 433,703


4. Dodge Ram (includes 1500, 1500 SRT-10, 2500 and 3500) — 400,453


5. Honda Accord — 369,293


6. Honda Civic — 308,415


7. Nissan Altima — 255,371


8. Chevrolet Impala — 246,481


9. Chevrolet Malibu — 245,861


10. Chevrolet TrailBlazer and TrailBlazer EXT — 244,150

to me that kinda looks like: truck, truck, midsize family sedan, truck, midsize family sedan, economy coupe, midsize family sedan, midsize family sedan, midsize family sedan, SUV


also wanted to add i cant really agree with the statement of "where its going"... im pretty sure its already there, the discontinuation of the celica and MRS was kinda the final piece, the rest of the toyota sports cars have been long phased out, even the celica and MRS have been cremepuffs since the alltrac was discontinued in 93 and the mr2turbo was discontinued in 94. its not like this is a recent development.

[BlackCelicaGT94]

I read this recently that its all about hybrid now and this may take place of the MR2 and Celica

Toyota considering hybrid sports car

Toyota is hoping to transfer its sales momentum to the sports car segment, Toyota executives told Dow Jones Newswires Monday. And a new hybrid model will be at the center of that movement, the sources said. The new model is "going to be global project, not one aimed at one region more than another. The concept is a hybrid," said Tokuo Fukuichi, the head of Toyota's ED2 design center. "We made a proposal to head office for a hybrid sports car. We're not sure that we're going to proceed with that but every time we develop a new car we consider a hybrid system. We have limited resources," he said.

Recent rumors have suggested a hybrid car could fill the gap left by the discontinuation of the Celica and MR2, and Fukuichi's comments seem to confirm that this is a strong possibility. "The sports car will come, but I don't know exactly when. Since we stopped production of the Celica and the MR2, there's a gap in that end of our range where we don't get the full impact of our participation in Formula 1," he said.

In February, we noted an Autocar report that suggested the Celica replacement will feature hybrid powertrain. The 2007/2008 model is said to be mid-engined, with four seats and all-wheel-drive. The car is also said to feature a folding metal hardtop — something that has never been seen before in a mid-engine car. It will take some inspiration from the CS+S Concept (shown right), the report said.

Fukuichi said Toyota has received a high volume of request for a sports car from dealers and customers. He said such a car would have to be affordable but also offer a lot of advanced technology. He said the target will be young, affluent buyers.

In April, Toyota's luxury division Lexus unveiled the Lexus LS 600h L — a powerful hybrid sedan with an impressive 430 horsepower and a SULEV (Super Low Emissions) rating.

[boosted_K2]

toyota has been pushing hybrid sports cars for a long time now but nothing has really seemed like it was anywhere close to production... no target dates, no solid production level thinking... its all been press releases and speculation and such for so long now its getting a bit redundant. not saying your info isnt real or substantial or anything, its obvious toyota is taking a big lunge in this direction and will eventually reach it. it just seems this stuff is still a few good years off and they have no plans on filling the gap until then. but ya, good info and definatly a promising direction.

[fastgt]

if the supra were to come out next week, i would have to problem parting with my Z....but that probably will never happen

[boosted_K2]

chances are a new supra wouldnt be in the same price bracket as a Z

[boosted_K2]

doesnt take much searching to find what you are looking for.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...041/PROMOBLOG01

"Supra: Not going to happen - all the rumors of the two-passenger sports car's return are false."

found this interesting too:
"Matrix: The redesign will come at the same time as the Corolla's, meaning the 2009 model year. Toyota wants the Matrix to be a destination vehicle for Scion owners."

funny... talking about scions not being daily drivers and apparently marketed towards people who can afford two cars... :scratches head:

"Camry Solara: Underachieving sales mean Toyota will kill the coupe and convertible after the 2008 model year. There is a chance a coupe could make a comeback in 2010."

killing the last convertible too... wow, we are on a roll.

[fastgt]

boosted k2 im sure the supra would cost at least 10k more than the Z...but i was just saying i would trade my Z up for a supra

[creamed_corn]

Man, some people in this thread talking like Toyota hasn't had a true sports car since the 5th gen altrac and MKII MR2 turbo. Too many people here talking up 16 year old technology in cars they've probably never even driven. Would you call the Miata a dud because it only makes 140hp? If you were around in 1995 would you be talking about how your 1979 Corolla definied "sporty"? Get with the times. There's more to what makes a car great than a 200hp 3S-GTE. Technology has come a long way; most of you kids are just too young for a dealer to even let you touch it.

And again, Toyota, make me the car and I'll be first in line with the suitcase of cash.

[Kwanza26]

Man, some people in this thread talking like Toyota hasn't had a true sports car since the 5th gen altrac and MKII MR2 turbo. Too many people here talking up 16 year old technology in cars they've probably never even driven. Would you call the Miata a dud because it only makes 140hp? If you were around in 1995 would you be talking about how your 1979 Corolla definied "sporty"? Get with the times. There's more to what makes a car great than a 200hp 3S-GTE. Technology has come a long way; most of you kids are just too young for a dealer to even let you touch it.

And again, Toyota, make me the car and I'll be first in line with the suitcase of cash.

Toyota's last sporty car was the 7th gen GTS, which 6th gen folk seem to NOT like because of its "honda-like" qualities. Toyota's last "true" sports car was the Supra in 98. Just so happens a lot of people here don't like the 7th gen because it's a rice car that has no torque or whatever... but these VERY SAME people can't afford a Supra. Why complain then? Hahah. If you're willing to spend 20-25K for a true toyota sports car... go buy a mkiv. Toyota isn't gonna build a sports car comparable to a BMW M3 and price it at around 1/2 that because a small enthusiast group *might* buy it.

Assuming Toyota makes a new sports car... it isn't gonna be in the price range of a V6 camry... which is anywhere from 22-28K. Expect at least 10K more than that. If you can afford that right now and are so disgruntled about having a sports car... you woulda went out and got a 350Z or WRX or something...

[soulshadow]

Lets just face it. Toyota was made for the older generation of people. Young guys or Young G's like us were never the target of fast sporty cars made from Toyota. Sure the Supra was twin turbo or turbo charged somewhere along the line, but it would cost us Young G's an Arm, a leg, and even a kidney or two.
Lets face it, if toyota was so popular we would be seeing them left and right and all riced up.
Even the newer ford mustangs are way less than a used $30K supra. Heck all new sporty cars are way less than a Supra sometimes.

Sometimes I'm just Glad that im the only one with a 20V 4age JDM motor at car meets.

[easternpiro1]

Well, we're still Toyota drivers whether or not that matters. I think it does.

If we're all fans of Toyota, chances are we'd buy something from them in the future. Surely I still make Toyota money by purchasing genuine parts from them, which I've done plenty of times.

I love the brand, I just don't like where it's going. I do agree with you though, money talks.

yeah...if money is talking...u know whats walking....and we as sports car lovers are smelling it big time!

Man, some people in this thread talking like Toyota hasn't had a true sports car since the 5th gen altrac and MKII MR2 turbo. Too many people here talking up 16 year old technology in cars they've probably never even driven. Would you call the Miata a dud because it only makes 140hp? If you were around in 1995 would you be talking about how your 1979 Corolla definied "sporty"? Get with the times. There's more to what makes a car great than a 200hp 3S-GTE. Technology has come a long way; most of you kids are just too young for a dealer to even let you touch it.


And again, Toyota, make me the car and I'll be first in line with the suitcase of cash.

thats what co-signers are for behbe!!! lol (according to my younger cousin)

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Sep 12, 2006 - 9:18 PM

[neoklis]

Why be in F1 if they do not want to have a sports car or be in that market anyway? Why are they so keen on the sporty look and performance of the lexus and try to attack the BMWs. How difficult would it be to offer a coupe IS or GS?

Why do they offer a sport package for Prius now?

No Company ever made money from sports cars. Not Ferreari (now FIAT) not Porche (now VW) not Jaguar (now ford) etc. The sports cars are more an R&D thing and also a way of promotion. Will BMW make money on the M6. I dont think so.

And What about Subaru. The majority of their cars is sports cars. And Mitsubishi, their high selling items are the Montero/Pajero with the a history of winning in Paris/Dakar Rally and the Lancers (EVO anyone)

And what about Nissan. Their latest models are all crap. They have made though the Z and survive.

In my opinion, Toyota has replaced its image making activities from the making of sports car to sponsoring tennis and track events for promotion and there may be a time in the near future when Toyos become cars with no identity. As long as the Europeans and Americans cannot make dependable cars due to shortcommings in Electronics Toyota will have no problems. But what will happen when they catch up? And dont forget the competion from the Chinese and korean manufactures. There will be a time when quality will not be an issue. I know for sure that in Greece Hyunday and Scoda (Cheh subsidiary of VW) is making extraordinary high sales as the price is attractive and the started not having serious issues with quality. And they have excellent service for when such troubles arise.

Being in the Financial analysis business for quite some time I have only one thing to tell you. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Toyota consider your self warned.

[neoklis]

"Corolla: Toyota has delayed the redesign for the United States by one year until spring 2008. A Toyota official blames this on engineering resources being stretched too thin. But sources say the original design and packaging were too plain compared to the Mazda3 and the Honda Civic; it was sent back to the drawing board."

My point exactly.

[TomPoz]

Sad but true...

Also, Toyota is actually loosing "quality" image in Europe. Majority of UK-assembled Toyotas are way behind old Japanese-origin ones.