3SGTE head and 3SGE Block Options

[Alan]

Dose any body know if the 3SGTE Head will fit the 3SGE engine Block. I own both of these motors but for some Reason I prefer the 3SGE Block !!! and i forgot to try the head before I fitted the 3SGTE into my Celica :s could some one help thanks

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Yes.

[Alan]

Yes.

Are you 100% sure about this because I wanted to buy new pistons crank ect and just change the head when the block is complete so I have to be sure, do you have any info :s

This post has been edited by Alan: Sep 14, 2006 - 3:01 PM

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Yes i'm sure. But if you still have doubts, go ahead and do some research yourself.

[roman]

Gen 2 3SGE block doesnt have oilsquirters, gen 3+ blocks do.

If you use a gen 2 3SGE block 'just because' then there is something wrong with your head.

[Supersprynt]

This would be a detrimental mod.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

This would be a detrimental mod.

How so?

[Punch]

what are you planing to do????

[Alan]

what are you planing to do????

I was thinking seriously of blue printing the block boring checking clearences ect and buying aftermarket pistons and a crank or astroker kit, so then at the end of the day I could just, take the head off the 3SGTE and put it on the 3SGE block, and for some reason I prefer the 3SGE block it looks more durable and I whant to use the sump of the 3SGE as it hold the gearbox better than the 3SGTE

What do You guys think Good idea?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Not a bad idea IMO.

[Punch]

Ok any plans for boost???
stroker kit =5s crank, 3s rods,87mm pistions, bored block...
You can do it your self or buy that kit from ATS racing in TX

[Alan]

Ok any plans for boost???
stroker kit =5s crank, 3s rods,87mm pistions, bored block...
You can do it your self or buy that kit from ATS racing in TX

No idea what so ever at the moment as i have to finish up my first project on the normal 3sgte but planning for big boost with the next project want to do things seriously like blue printing crank case polishing ceramic coat for the pistons and everything to race standards. I have never heard of ATS racing but i will check it out thanks a lot guys

[Supersprynt]

This would be a detrimental mod.

How so?

3sge heads are sometimes put on 3sgte blocks because of the lift duration & cams which have increased airflow.

[Alan]

This would be a detrimental mod.

How so?

3sge heads are sometimes put on 3sgte blocks because of the lift duration & cams which have increased airflow.

Really cool but my 3SGTE head is also gonna be modified thanks for the pointer though

This would be a detrimental mod.

How so?

What do you mean by detrimental mod ???

[Supersprynt]

I mean if your 3sg head is already flowing better than a 3sgt head, it would be detrimental to performance to switch them. I'm talking stock for stock. Why not just put aftermarket 3sge camshafts in?

[Alan]

I mean if your 3sg head is already flowing better than a 3sgt head, it would be detrimental to performance to switch them. I'm talking stock for stock. Why not just put aftermarket 3sge camshafts in?

I dont think You understood what I said before I said I want to use the Block of the 3SGE and the Head of the 3SGTE. I wanted to know If the head fits exactly and If it is a good idea ???

[scothaniel]

Which gen 3SGE or 3SGTE block?

The 3rd gen 3SGE blocks suffer the same thin wall problems as the 3rd gen 3SGTE blocks (same castings), so the 2nd gen blocks are actually stronger. The rods and crank are the same for all generations of 3S motors, so there's no advantages there.

The 3rd gens do have a nicer lubrication system - better oil pan/baffles and relocated oil filter, but aftermarket parts can accomplish the same thing.

The 3SGE doesn't have the stock oil lines for the turbo to use, so you'll need to make some lines - though I personnally like tee'ing off the head better then the stock hard pipes. Much easier to remove.

and I whant to use the sump of the 3SGE as it hold the gearbox better than the 3SGTE

Little confused by this comment. Both blocks are made from the same casting - physically no difference.

[Alan]

Which gen 3SGE or 3SGTE block?

The 3rd gen 3SGE blocks suffer the same thin wall problems as the 3rd gen 3SGTE blocks (same castings), so the 2nd gen blocks are actually stronger. The rods and crank are the same for all generations of 3S motors, so there's no advantages there.

The 3rd gens do have a nicer lubrication system - better oil pan/baffles and relocated oil filter, but aftermarket parts can accomplish the same thing.

The 3SGE doesn't have the stock oil lines for the turbo to use, so you'll need to make some lines - though I personnally like tee'ing off the head better then the stock hard pipes. Much easier to remove.

and I whant to use the sump of the 3SGE as it hold the gearbox better than the 3SGTE

Little confused by this comment. Both blocks are made from the same casting - physically no difference.

Nice one bro thanks the Blocks are both 3rd gen ,

As for the Sump the 3SGE sump has an aluminum flange which is part of the sumps cast unlike the 3SGTE of the MR2 . I think ill use the 3SGE block as my ony consern was the oil turbo pips, but I will not be needing them as I bought a Ball bearing turbo thanks for the help,ohh and another thing the diff. between the 2nd an the 3rd gen appart from the oil jets in the crank case are what? exacly

[scothaniel]

I have a 3rd gen 3SGTE motor and 2 x 3rd gen 3SGE motors at my house right now. They all have the same oil setup - cast aluminum upper pan and a pressed steel lower pan (sump).

I'm a firm believer in using the 3SGE for a motor buildup. No demand, so prices are very cheap. Same block and head - just need to swap out the pistons , add fuel add a turbo kit. And I love the 3GE's intake manifold - I'm working on a sheet-metal inake manifold to bolt to the stock lower runners.

[Alan]

I have a 3rd gen 3SGTE motor and 2 x 3rd gen 3SGE motors at my house right now. They all have the same oil setup - cast aluminum upper pan and a pressed steel lower pan (sump).

I'm a firm believer in using the 3SGE for a motor buildup. No demand, so prices are very cheap. Same block and head - just need to swap out the pistons , add fuel add a turbo kit. And I love the 3GE's intake manifold - I'm working on a sheet-metal inake manifold to bolt to the stock lower runners.

my 3SGTE has a fully Cast iron sump if it is a 3rd gen it is supposed to be because it has oil jets in the crank case

[Alan]

Ok so my ride is ready, see profile .

SO the Block of the 3rd gen 3SGTE does fit the 3SGTE 2nd gen Head as I am going to get JG to do all the head work for me but I need a comfirmation as I dont have th ehead in my hands

I am estimating 600bhp for my next poject but I must be 100% sure that the oil ports water jackets all line up !!

Any help plz

[scothaniel]

I have a 2nd gen block w/ 3rd gen head, using an HKS 3rd gen head gasket. No problems. You would probably want to use the 2nd gen head gasket with a 2nd gen head.

The 2nd and 3rd gen blocks have identical water and oil ports, the only differences are in the heads.

The 2nd gen blocks are stronger then most 3rd gens. You'll find a few old posts in the UK and internationl forums from poeple who have cracked 3rd gen blocks over and over again. The wall thickness is said to be thinner w/ the 3rd gens.

On the other hand, 3rd gen heads flow better then 2nd gen's. A performance shop in Chicago flow tested both heads and a stock 3rd gen out flowed a 2nd gen w/ mild porting. Though with a full race port job, both heads would probably flow the same.

[Alan]

great info buddy thnaks alot for the pointers it was of great help

[funnys_tears]

yeah i just wanna ask about the camshaft,
are they different size or the same size
i just wondering what differen't between both camshaft..cuz i just like to switch for more airflow

[scothaniel]

The GE camshafts have a slightly longer duration, so you'll gain a little power. Very minor compared to a set of aftermarket cams.

[trd_chik]

hi hi .

ive got a similar question but in reverse....

throwing ideas around for projects and am wondering if anyone can tell me...

a) if a 2nd gen 3sge head will fit a 2nd gen 3sgte block.

b) if it does what are the difference etc and will it make any major difference to the performance of the engine.

blonde out.

comments please

[scothaniel]

For the most part, the 3SGE head is the same as the 3SGTE head, with the GE cams being slightly higher duration. You can swap parts from the same generation heads without issues:
2nd gen 3SGE <==> 2nd gen 3SGTE
3rd gen 3SGE <==> 3rd gen 3SGTE

You'll get a slight boost from the GE cams, and I personally like the GE intake manifolds as they have a side-feed plenum, which matches my intercooler setup. Otherwise, there's no real difference.

[trd_chik]

For the most part, the 3SGE head is the same as the 3SGTE head, with the GE cams being slightly higher duration. You can swap parts from the same generation heads without issues:
2nd gen 3SGE <==> 2nd gen 3SGTE
3rd gen 3SGE <==> 3rd gen 3SGTE

You'll get a slight boost from the GE cams, and I personally like the GE intake manifolds as they have a side-feed plenum, which matches my intercooler setup. Otherwise, there's no real difference.

cool cool and headset wise... one would assume i use the 3sge set.
i wouldnt have thought there would be much difference between the sets but the girl at th parts store says they are a different part number and 3sgte set obviously a lot dearer.
although if im running the 3sgte block it may be advisable to use the 3sgte headset aye as the head gasket will be thicker etc wont it

[scothaniel]

The head gaskets are different, the GTE has more water ports due to the additional heat from the turbo.

[ST-Autosport]

Gen 2 3SGE block doesnt have oilsquirters, gen 3+ blocks do.

this is NOT correct, gen2 3S-GE block also have oil squirters!
i always use 2gen 3s-ge blocks in my builds because they are cheap and strong cores.

[3WayStunna]

For the most part, the 3SGE head is the same as the 3SGTE head, with the GE cams being slightly higher duration. You can swap parts from the same generation heads without issues:
2nd gen 3SGE <==> 2nd gen 3SGTE
3rd gen 3SGE <==> 3rd gen 3SGTE

You'll get a slight boost from the GE cams, and I personally like the GE intake manifolds as they have a side-feed plenum, which matches my intercooler setup. Otherwise, there's no real difference.

And to add to this, if you can, try to swap in a SET of intake cams from a 3rd gen 3sge. If you can get them on the cheap, it is a cheap ass cam upgrade on the fly, and it makes the motor sound very nice ^_^