6-speed trannys???, anyone droppin 6-speed trannys into their car, or have... Options

[mneal2_92788]

has anyone dropped a 6-speed into their celica or if not can you??? if so on either, how much does it cost and where do i find it???

[Kwanza26]

No and no...

The ONLY toyota FWD 6 speed is the C60/C160 traannies and those only bolt up to the A series engines. They are also useless on anything that doesn't peak power past 6000 rpms.

[mneal2_92788]

my peak power is 6300, plus i want to switch to rear whel drive

[runningaddict6]

better put on your flame suit

[x_itchy_b_x]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42969

maybe it could be done ^

[Kwanza26]

my peak power is 6300, plus i want to switch to rear whel drive

Heheheheh... ok buddy. Go do it it and come back here and tell me I was a dumbass for being wrong.

[3WayStunna]

Flame suit, bah......dont ask me how, but a 6spd tranny/engine combo in the 6th gen would work......its just that someone has to do it.....that link'd thread might be the best bet for info into it......

[Kwanza26]

Flame suit, bah......dont ask me how, but a 6spd tranny/engine combo in the 6th gen would work......its just that someone has to do it.....that link'd thread might be the best bet for info into it......

Have you read the linked thread? I believe I had some things to say in that thread...

C'mon guys... Hypothesizing is one thing... but this is a crapshoot IDEA with no real logic behind it. First off... what would be the advantage be? Mated to what engine? How are you gonna do it? What do you know about drivetrain? Fabrication?

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Nov 27, 2006 - 11:13 AM

[x_itchy_b_x]

Flame suit, bah......dont ask me how, but a 6spd tranny/engine combo in the 6th gen would work......its just that someone has to do it.....that link'd thread might be the best bet for info into it......

Have you read the linked thread? I believe I had some things to say in that thread...

C'mon guys... Hypothesizing is one thing... but this is a crapshoot IDEA with no real logic behind it. First off... what would be the advantage be? Mated to what engine? How are you gonna do it? What do you know about drivetrain? Fabrication?

its true. for the money you might as well just buy a custom tranny from c-one or have a tranny shop make you different gears for a different power ratio.

[Dr_Tweak]

It would make perfect sense.





















Along with a 4AGE 20v Blacktop or 2ZZGE swap!

[Fastbird]

It would make perfect sense.


Along with a 4AGE 20v Blacktop or 2ZZGE swap!

Come on Doc, you can't magically make a six speed fit a 3S???? I thought you had skills!

[3WayStunna]

yah, i love to revitalize dead topics, but anywho, isnt the beams altezza engine 6spd......couldnt u use the tranny from that with another 3s series engine??....with the right fabrication i believe it can be done...true i have nothing to back that up, but after reading of ppl doing v6 swaps, supercharged 3sfe
s and many other things, it could be possible right?? or am i jsut talking nonsense??

[InfamousChappy]

I think it's all nonsense.Isn't 5 gears enough shifting already? That and the fact you would probably never use the 6th gear.

Celicas werent engineered with 6 gears in mind. Like most sport compacts, 5spd is the staple.
6 spd trannys are suited more for high power 6,8,10,12 super cars. Where 6 gears is necessary.

Ok so it could be done..But..Why?

[Kwanza26]

yah, i love to revitalize dead topics, but anywho, isnt the beams altezza engine 6spd......couldnt u use the tranny from that with another 3s series engine??....with the right fabrication i believe it can be done...true i have nothing to back that up, but after reading of ppl doing v6 swaps, supercharged 3sfe
s and many other things, it could be possible right?? or am i jsut talking nonsense??

You're talking nonsense because the Altezza is RWD...

[Fastbird]

I think it's all nonsense.Isn't 5 gears enough shifting already? That and the fact you would probably never use the 6th gear.

Celicas werent engineered with 6 gears in mind. Like most sport compacts, 5spd is the staple.
6 spd trannys are suited more for high power 6,8,10,12 super cars. Where 6 gears is necessary.

Ok so it could be done..But..Why?

That makes no sense at all. Look at the S2000, Civic, RSX, 7th Gen Celica, new MR2 (SMT6 tranny), and a handfull of others. All with six speed transmissions (or at least available). It's not a matter of how many times you shift, it's a matter of gearing. With a stock motor (5S or 7A), sure, the Celica needs the steep gearing and final drive ratio as stock to keep it from being too much of a burden to get moving in traffic without impeding others. But, for some of us who do a lot of highway cruising or have upgraded to a 3S-GTE, we don't need that steep gearing. And personally, I HATE driving the celica on the highway for extended periods of time because at 80 MPH, turning 4K rpm's with the custom exhaust droning away is flat out tiring. It would be MUCH nicer to have the same 1-5 gears (or close) with a more overdriven 6th gear for those highway cruising period.

Six speed transmissions aren't just reserved for high power "super cars" like you think. The main reason the six speed came into prominence is the extra overdrive gear for improved fuel economy, be it on a 4, 6, 8, 10, or 12 cylinder engine.

[laff09]

yah, i love to revitalize dead topics, but anywho, isnt the beams altezza engine 6spd......couldnt u use the tranny from that with another 3s series engine??....with the right fabrication i believe it can be done...true i have nothing to back that up, but after reading of ppl doing v6 swaps, supercharged 3sfe
s and many other things, it could be possible right?? or am i jsut talking nonsense??

You're talking nonsense because the Altezza is RWD...

He said he was going with a RWD setup...

[K-ESD]

yah, i love to revitalize dead topics, but anywho, isnt the beams altezza engine 6spd......couldnt u use the tranny from that with another 3s series engine??....with the right fabrication i believe it can be done...true i have nothing to back that up, but after reading of ppl doing v6 swaps, supercharged 3sfe
s and many other things, it could be possible right?? or am i jsut talking nonsense??

You're talking nonsense because the Altezza is RWD...

He said he was going with a RWD setup...

yay, annother one of those topics

Thats right, he SAID, he did NOT do it nor explain by any means how it will be done. People need to get realistic, you need a foundation for a project of that magnitude, not just hopes and dreams. Talking about it and not backing it up will make you look like an idiot. no offence intended.

[uberschall]

yeah, rwd. nice.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I can't believe I just read through this thread. I'm so ashamed of myself. Can some modderater check the IP address of the orginial poster and see if it matches an existing member? This has to be someone just try to start something for the fun of it.

[x_itchy_b_x]

yeah im doing and AWD track conversion

[3WayStunna]

hmm, anywho i was just trying to support someone with the hopes of maybe doing something, not trying to incite anything else......but if ppl think these kind of threads are staretd by ppl who are just typing words, then oh wells.......i always take it as a perosn asking for an opinion on something, dont really care if they are or are not going to do something.....anyways, it would stil be nice to see a rwd celica, with a beams engine in it.....got me thinkin of things i could do to my other cars....

[InfamousChappy]

Yea I know its not just for "super" cars...I vaguely used "super" as an adjective. Sorrrry

There's a word that's not being used. Engineering. So those cars have it..They were engineered for it when they were just blue lines on paper. IF you want reengineer a gearbox so that it can hold six gears you go right on with it...and good luck. I dont have the brains to anything like that nor do I have that kind of money/time .So whats the point of arguing about that something that probably wont ever happen.




Yea I know its not just for "super" cars...I vaguely used "super" as an adjective. Sorrrry

There's a word that's not being used. Engineering. So those cars have it..They were engineered for it when they were just blue lines on paper. IF you want reengineer a gearbox so that it can hold six gears you go right on with it...and good luck. I dont have the brains to anything like that nor do I have that kind of money/time .So whats the point of arguing about that something that probably wont ever happen.

[Kwanza26]

hopes of maybe doing something... these kind of threads are staretd by ppl who are just typing words.......it would stil be nice to see a rwd celica, with a beams engine in it.....got me thinkin of things i could do to my other cars....

Those are the highlights of your response. In otherwords... "what if" scenario. Turn it into an "I'm gonna" scenario and explain how... then maybe you'll get some significant responses.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Nov 29, 2006 - 2:04 AM

[Kwanza26]

That makes no sense at all. Look at the S2000, Civic, RSX, 7th Gen Celica, new MR2 (SMT6 tranny), and a handfull of others. All with six speed transmissions (or at least available). It's not a matter of how many times you shift, it's a matter of gearing. With a stock motor (5S or 7A), sure, the Celica needs the steep gearing and final drive ratio as stock to keep it from being too much of a burden to get moving in traffic without impeding others. But, for some of us who do a lot of highway cruising or have upgraded to a 3S-GTE, we don't need that steep gearing. And personally, I HATE driving the celica on the highway for extended periods of time because at 80 MPH, turning 4K rpm's with the custom exhaust droning away is flat out tiring. It would be MUCH nicer to have the same 1-5 gears (or close) with a more overdriven 6th gear for those highway cruising period.

Six speed transmissions aren't just reserved for high power "super cars" like you think. The main reason the six speed came into prominence is the extra overdrive gear for improved fuel economy, be it on a 4, 6, 8, 10, or 12 cylinder engine.

*sigh*

Lemme explain a few things. A LOT of new cars are now coming with 6 speeds and 7 speeds... why? Sporty feel and fuel economy. The issue? Well... those trannies were DESIGNED for those engines... therefore the gearing is perfect (or damn near perfect). This topic talks about 'bolting' up a 6 speed... without any understanding of gearing and how it affects performance. Let me give you a good example of BAD BAD gearing. 7th gen Celica GTS. Potentially a 15 FLAT stock car... yet when mated to an older POORLY geared tranny (stock auto)... the car turns into a 17 second slug. 15 seconds versus 17 seconds is like... 5-7 car lengths. While potentially having a 6th gear can be done correctly... can anyone afford a custom gearset? Who wants to pay up for a custom tranny that's gonna cost almost as much as the car itself?

[lazzyboy121]

yet another noob post...............

[K-ESD]

yet another noob post...............

This is very disrespectful. n00bs, as you call them, need our guidance/support, not this kind of comment. If you don't have anything constructive to say, please keep your comments to yourself.

[Fastbird]

That makes no sense at all. Look at the S2000, Civic, RSX, 7th Gen Celica, new MR2 (SMT6 tranny), and a handfull of others. All with six speed transmissions (or at least available). It's not a matter of how many times you shift, it's a matter of gearing. With a stock motor (5S or 7A), sure, the Celica needs the steep gearing and final drive ratio as stock to keep it from being too much of a burden to get moving in traffic without impeding others. But, for some of us who do a lot of highway cruising or have upgraded to a 3S-GTE, we don't need that steep gearing. And personally, I HATE driving the celica on the highway for extended periods of time because at 80 MPH, turning 4K rpm's with the custom exhaust droning away is flat out tiring. It would be MUCH nicer to have the same 1-5 gears (or close) with a more overdriven 6th gear for those highway cruising period.

Six speed transmissions aren't just reserved for high power "super cars" like you think. The main reason the six speed came into prominence is the extra overdrive gear for improved fuel economy, be it on a 4, 6, 8, 10, or 12 cylinder engine.

*sigh*

Lemme explain a few things. A LOT of new cars are now coming with 6 speeds and 7 speeds... why? Sporty feel and fuel economy. The issue? Well... those trannies were DESIGNED for those engines... therefore the gearing is perfect (or damn near perfect). This topic talks about 'bolting' up a 6 speed... without any understanding of gearing and how it affects performance. Let me give you a good example of BAD BAD gearing. 7th gen Celica GTS. Potentially a 15 FLAT stock car... yet when mated to an older POORLY geared tranny (stock auto)... the car turns into a 17 second slug. 15 seconds versus 17 seconds is like... 5-7 car lengths. While potentially having a 6th gear can be done correctly... can anyone afford a custom gearset? Who wants to pay up for a custom tranny that's gonna cost almost as much as the car itself?

You don't have to explain anything to me. I fully realize what I said. What you missed was the fact that my rant was based on the fact that I'm running a 3S-GTE and have no need or desire to turn 4K RPM's on the highway and certainly don't need such steep gearing to get the car moving in a timely fashion now. Your statement is flawed also, and I'm going to step out of the Celica world and into the GM world for a second to say why: Take the 4th Gen 93-02 F-Body and the 92-96 LT1 C4 and 98+ C5 and C6 Corvette's. I own Two 93 F-Body's and a 99 C5 Vette so I speak from personal experience as well as loads of practical experience. Those cars mentioned, save for the 92-96 Vette (ZF6 6 Speed) run Borg Warner T-56 6 Speeds. The F-body's got 3.23 or 2.73 rear end gears in 93 and 3.42 rear end gears in 94-02 and the Vette's got 3.42 rear end gears in 97 to current. This is NOT optimal gearing for the car, this was specifically a way for gm to overdrive the car more and cut down on the gas guzzler taxes while at the same time providing a stronger transmission than what was previously available. If you've never ridden in any of the above stock and then with a set of 3.73, 3.90, or 4.10 gears out back, then you don't realize how low geared they really are from the factory. Stepping back into the celica/import world now.

I fully realize that a certain amount of engineering goes into why cars get six speeds, and will admit that the import world is more engineered because is HAS to be given the inability of some of the cars to get moving quickly enough. Not a bash, just a reality. Close gears and steep gearing/final drive ratio is an absolute necessity. But another flaw in your example above is when you used the example of an auto tranny. Too bad we're not talking auto's. I bet if you compared the gearing of the six speeds (i believe there was just a thread on here talking about a rare six speed from a Curren or something) you'd find that the gear ratio's are probably quite close and wouldn't harm acceleration as much as you'd think while still providing a more reasonable cruise gear. Given the Celica's relatively high final drive ratio with the 5 speed, moving to a six speed probably wouldn't have much of an impact at all. Sadly though, without some major engineering or a stroke of genius somewhere, we probably won't find out.

My point in making my orignal post was simply that for the motor swap guys, you could potentially increase fuel economy and reduce the engine speed at highway cruise without hurting acceleration (possibly increasing it because of a less steep 1st and 2nd gear allowing better power transfer to the ground via less torque multiplication from the lower gearing) and givng the car some longer legs for the top end (should the need arise) at the same time.

[Kwanza26]

You don't have to explain anything to me. I fully realize what I said. What you missed was the fact that my rant was based on the fact that I'm running a 3S-GTE and have no need or desire to turn 4K RPM's on the highway and certainly don't need such steep gearing to get the car moving in a timely fashion now. Your statement is flawed also, and I'm going to step out of the Celica world and into the GM world for a second to say why: Take the 4th Gen 93-02 F-Body and the 92-96 LT1 C4 and 98+ C5 and C6 Corvette's. I own Two 93 F-Body's and a 99 C5 Vette so I speak from personal experience as well as loads of practical experience. Those cars mentioned, save for the 92-96 Vette (ZF6 6 Speed) run Borg Warner T-56 6 Speeds. The F-body's got 3.23 or 2.73 rear end gears in 93 and 3.42 rear end gears in 94-02 and the Vette's got 3.42 rear end gears in 97 to current. This is NOT optimal gearing for the car, this was specifically a way for gm to overdrive the car more and cut down on the gas guzzler taxes while at the same time providing a stronger transmission than what was previously available. If you've never ridden in any of the above stock and then with a set of 3.73, 3.90, or 4.10 gears out back, then you don't realize how low geared they really are from the factory. Stepping back into the celica/import world now.

While that may be the case with Corvette and other big V8's... there's a flaw in your argument. You CANNOT compare muscle cars to imports... why? Muscle cars can run fine with taller gears... in many cases much faster with taller gears when compared to imports. TORQUE. Back to my example... the difference between a well matched 5 speed and a poorly matched 6 speed can be HUGE. GM understands that many Corvette buyers aren't gonna buy a corvette specifically to race... so the need for shorter sporty gearing that can hurt fuel economy isn't neccesary, so they have the taller finaldrives to attract the not so performance oriented buyers.

I fully realize that a certain amount of engineering goes into why cars get six speeds, and will admit that the import world is more engineered because is HAS to be given the inability of some of the cars to get moving quickly enough. Not a bash, just a reality. Close gears and steep gearing/final drive ratio is an absolute necessity. But another flaw in your example above is when you used the example of an auto tranny. Too bad we're not talking auto's.

Why is it flawed? We're talking about gearing... not whether a driver or tranny can perform shifts better. You're from the domestic world right? Which is preffered in a drag race?

I bet if you compared the gearing of the six speeds (i believe there was just a thread on here talking about a rare six speed from a Curren or something) you'd find that the gear ratio's are probably quite close and wouldn't harm acceleration as much as you'd think while still providing a more reasonable cruise gear. Given the Celica's relatively high final drive ratio with the 5 speed, moving to a six speed probably wouldn't have much of an impact at all. Sadly though, without some major engineering or a stroke of genius somewhere, we probably won't find out.

Unfortunately as myself and many others have pointed out OVER and OVER... there is ONLY one toyota 6 speed transaxle... mated to engines that both peak power near 8000 rpms. Besides... how often has someone come in here asking about 6 gears with even a remote idea of what gearing is?

My point in making my orignal post was simply that for the motor swap guys, you could potentially increase fuel economy and reduce the engine speed at highway cruise without hurting acceleration (possibly increasing it because of a less steep 1st and 2nd gear allowing better power transfer to the ground via less torque multiplication from the lower gearing) and givng the car some longer legs for the top end (should the need arise) at the same time.

This last part sounds like something muscle car guys would say. Just remember... we're talking 4 cylinders here... but as I've mentioned already... there are 5 speed trannies available that mate up to the 3SGTE that DO have taller final drives. The need for a 6th gear is purely asthetic...

[Fastbird]

While that may be the case with Corvette and other big V8's... there's a flaw in your argument. You CANNOT compare muscle cars to imports... why? Muscle cars can run fine with taller gears... in many cases much faster with taller gears when compared to imports. TORQUE. Back to my example... the difference between a well matched 5 speed and a poorly matched 6 speed can be HUGE. GM understands that many Corvette buyers aren't gonna buy a corvette specifically to race... so the need for shorter sporty gearing that can hurt fuel economy isn't neccesary, so they have the taller finaldrives to attract the not so performance oriented buyers.

I fully realize that which is why I mentioned in the next paragraph that I concede that the import engines need the taller gearing. But, my point with the v8 stuff was that even those are undergeared intentionally for economy reasons. They respond magnificently to steeper gears and feel like they should with them.

Why is it flawed? We're talking about gearing... not whether a driver or tranny can perform shifts better. You're from the domestic world right? Which is preffered in a drag race?

Auto's are preferred in drag racing for consistency, plain and simple. The flaw was that when comparing gearing you can't compare an auto to a manual because of how they operate. Auto's with the torque converter have a different torque multiplication effect from slippage than a manual does. It really makes a big difference.

Unfortunately as myself and many others have pointed out OVER and OVER... there is ONLY one toyota 6 speed transaxle... mated to engines that both peak power near 8000 rpms. Besides... how often has someone come in here asking about 6 gears with even a remote idea of what gearing is?

I wasn't aware of there only being 1 toyota 6 speed and had no clue that they were set up for high revving engines. Actually, in the thread I mentioned, I do remember seeing the gearing and thinking "man, that's really steep and really wouldn't accomplish what I'd want anyway." So I'll own up to not putting two and two together there.

My point in making my orignal post was simply that for the motor swap guys, you could potentially increase fuel economy and reduce the engine speed at highway cruise without hurting acceleration (possibly increasing it because of a less steep 1st and 2nd gear allowing better power transfer to the ground via less torque multiplication from the lower gearing) and givng the car some longer legs for the top end (should the need arise) at the same time.

------------------------
This last part sounds like something muscle car guys would say. Just remember... we're talking 4 cylinders here... but as I've mentioned already... there are 5 speed trannies available that mate up to the 3SGTE that DO have taller final drives. The need for a 6th gear is purely asthetic...

I left that original quote of mine above because I'm curious how that sounds like something a muscle car guy would say. If you haven't driven a 3S swapped 6GC with a 5 speed yet, come up and I'll let you drive mine and experience how almost utterly useless 1st gear is. You blink and you bounce off the rev limiter, it really goes by that quickly (not saying it's a bad thing cause it's dang fun, but it would benefit a little from holding on longer). Now, I do realize that there ARE 5 speeds that mate up to the 3S and have the taller gearing, but of those the only one I'm familiar with is the E153 and it's only good for a marginal difference that I can tell (although I do NOT know what the final drive ratio is with the LSD, the MR2 setup essentially). I wouldn't go so far as to call the need for a 6th gear purely aesthetic though. With the shorter gearing even in other 5 speeds, you have essentially mechanically limited the top speed of the car to your rev limiter in 5th gear. This is just a personal opinion that some may share with me, but I'd rather know that I'm not mechanically limited to a top speed and that I'm only limited by the power output and drag coefficient of the car. Texas mile or salt flats anyone???

You make marked points, no doubt. I think we're just looking at things in different perspectives is all. Cheers!

This post has been edited by Fastbird: Nov 29, 2006 - 10:51 AM

[Kwanza26]

You don't have to explain anything to me. I fully realize what I said. What you missed was the fact that my rant was based on the fact that I'm running a 3S-GTE and have no need or desire to turn 4K RPM's on the highway and certainly don't need such steep gearing to get the car moving in a timely fashion now. Your statement is flawed also, and I'm going to step out of the Celica world and into the GM world for a second to say why: Take the 4th Gen 93-02 F-Body and the 92-96 LT1 C4 and 98+ C5 and C6 Corvette's. I own Two 93 F-Body's and a 99 C5 Vette so I speak from personal experience as well as loads of practical experience. Those cars mentioned, save for the 92-96 Vette (ZF6 6 Speed) run Borg Warner T-56 6 Speeds. The F-body's got 3.23 or 2.73 rear end gears in 93 and 3.42 rear end gears in 94-02 and the Vette's got 3.42 rear end gears in 97 to current. This is NOT optimal gearing for the car, this was specifically a way for gm to overdrive the car more and cut down on the gas guzzler taxes while at the same time providing a stronger transmission than what was previously available. If you've never ridden in any of the above stock and then with a set of 3.73, 3.90, or 4.10 gears out back, then you don't realize how low geared they really are from the factory. Stepping back into the celica/import world now.

While that may be the case with Corvette and other big V8's... there's a flaw in your argument. You CANNOT compare muscle cars to imports... why? Muscle cars can run fine with taller gears... in many cases much faster with taller gears when compared to imports. TORQUE. Back to my example... the difference between a well matched 5 speed and a poorly matched 6 speed can be HUGE. GM understands that many Corvette buyers aren't gonna buy a corvette specifically to race... so the need for shorter sporty gearing that can hurt fuel economy isn't neccesary, so they have the taller finaldrives to attract the not so performance oriented buyers.

I fully realize that a certain amount of engineering goes into why cars get six speeds, and will admit that the import world is more engineered because is HAS to be given the inability of some of the cars to get moving quickly enough. Not a bash, just a reality. Close gears and steep gearing/final drive ratio is an absolute necessity. But another flaw in your example above is when you used the example of an auto tranny. Too bad we're not talking auto's.

Why is it flawed? We're talking about gearing... not whether a driver or tranny can perform shifts better. You're from the domestic world right? Which is preffered in a drag race?

I bet if you compared the gearing of the six speeds (i believe there was just a thread on here talking about a rare six speed from a Curren or something) you'd find that the gear ratio's are probably quite close and wouldn't harm acceleration as much as you'd think while still providing a more reasonable cruise gear. Given the Celica's relatively high final drive ratio with the 5 speed, moving to a six speed probably wouldn't have much of an impact at all. Sadly though, without some major engineering or a stroke of genius somewhere, we probably won't find out.

Unfortunately as myself and many others have pointed out OVER and OVER... there is ONLY one toyota 6 speed transaxle... mated to engines that both peak power near 8000 rpms. Besides... how often has someone come in here asking about 6 gears with even a remote idea of what gearing is?

My point in making my orignal post was simply that for the motor swap guys, you could potentially increase fuel economy and reduce the engine speed at highway cruise without hurting acceleration (possibly increasing it because of a less steep 1st and 2nd gear allowing better power transfer to the ground via less torque multiplication from the lower gearing) and givng the car some longer legs for the top end (should the need arise) at the same time.

This last part sounds like something muscle car guys would say. Just remember... we're talking 4 cylinders here... but as I've mentioned already... there are 5 speed trannies available that mate up to the 3SGTE that DO have taller final drives. The need for a 6th gear is purely asthetic...

[BLADDER_MASTER]

.

This post has been edited by BLADDER_MASTER: Nov 13, 2012 - 2:53 PM

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

The need for a 6th gear is purely asthetic...

Amen to that. Just buy a 6 speed shift knob tell all the chickies you've got a 6speed. Heck, why not considder reverse? Just say, "I've got a 6 geared transmission?" All the players will think you are the bomb yoe.

[baddisintegra]

6-speeds can be converted, and like previous posters have said, it would be for highway driving if done so, but there are other advantages.

first off if a 1uz v8 swapped into a IS can use be used with a 2jzge straight six tranny, then i believe its possible to mate the 6spd tranny onto 6gc motor. and on the other hand a 6spd tranny could do a world of wonders for 3sgte/3sge motor if the rite 6spd tranny was acquired.

i know for a fact that the tiburon/celica/maxima/sentra 6spd tranny's are all the same but differ in gear ratios. now some gear ratios would be more suitable for a N/A motor and really only one (the 04-06 spec-V) would do well under boost applications

to do the swap, maybe an adaptor plate along with a different bellhousings, master cylinder if the 6gc is cable, special moutning bracket for the tranny...maybe a couple other things as well

i've seen the 6spd tranny's being used for both n/a and boost applications on older engines for:

1. stronger transmission
2. better highway fuel mileage
3. there could be better clutch selections
4. also colud be less chance of thrust bearing failure because of less clamping force by clutch


now this is just my speculation on the swap of a 6spd tranny...i am not to familiar with the 5sfe/3sge/3sgte motors (as yet--i plan to pick up a 6gc in the next few weeks )

This post has been edited by baddisintegra: Nov 30, 2006 - 5:30 PM

[3WayStunna]

Hey KWANZA, before you try to jump down someones throat, realize i am not the original poster for this thread....im only supporting what someone may or may not due, in the hope s they may do it......and also dont pick my post apart and only quote one line or two line to make yourself "look" smarter...once again i am only trying to be a supporter of a person who might do something.....at the same time im sure that i said, that this post has given me some ideas as to what i might do to some of my cars, nothing more......ad to be honest, its flame happy ppl like you on this site that usually pushes ppl away from wanting to try new things, so please, back off....thank you and good luck to the original poster of this thread...

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Hey KWANZA, before you try to jump down someones throat, realize i am not the original poster for this thread....im only supporting what someone may or may not due, in the hope s they may do it......and also dont pick my post apart and only quote one line or two line to make yourself "look" smarter...once again i am only trying to be a supporter of a person who might do something.....at the same time im sure that i said, that this post has given me some ideas as to what i might do to some of my cars, nothing more......ad to be honest, its flame happy ppl like you on this site that usually pushes ppl away from wanting to try new things, so please, back off....thank you and good luck to the original poster of this thread...

You've been here since June of 06, what can you really know about the history of this site, the knowledge of the members, and projects that do and don't come true. Yeah, we as a community need to push for the advancement of technology in/for the 6gc. New ideas are always great. But, guys like Kwanza know because they've done there own projects and have experience. There is practical and there are just fanciful ideas for what a 6gc could use most productively and cost efficiently. A 6 speed to a 5s,7s, or 3sgte is just not a great idea. I still think the 7afe holds the best potential with one, but it's still not worth it because it's so expensive. The 4age, 7age, and 3sge could maybe use a properly geared one.

[3WayStunna]

no offense but ive been on this site since early 05.....and i know well enough what ppl have done here and there......and btw, ive done my own little "projects" here and there, and dont really appreciate someone like kawanza picking apart one thread in a post, to suit his own little thread....anywho, i agree with you ti dosent make much sense to try something along the way of a 6spd, but reagardless, this guy could still go for it, actually make it work, or if not then he dosent....erhem, oh wells.....still, i see that i am not contributing much to this thread, so no worrie,s i wont be doing anymore posting.....peace

This post has been edited by 3WayStunna: Nov 30, 2006 - 6:32 PM

[SinisterWhisper]

There is a site floating around somewhere showing the 6spd from a 7th gen having its bellhousing swapped with a c52 to work on an A series motor. That I believe is the only cost effective way of getting a 6spd in a celica. However the problem with doing this is while Ive seen that it works I do not have any kind of instructions on how to do it and dont know what type of tools would be required.

[baddisintegra]

There is a site floating around somewhere showing the 6spd from a 7th gen having its bellhousing swapped with a c52 to work on an A series motor. That I believe is the only cost effective way of getting a 6spd in a celica. However the problem with doing this is while Ive seen that it works I do not have any kind of instructions on how to do it and dont know what type of tools would be required.

yeha like i said, the bellhousing, adaptor plate (if necessary), and mounts for the tranny would be the main things to accomplish...if you could somehow find that website, i know it would be truly appreciated here

[spke719]

guys some one on here already has a 3sgte motor with a 6 speed toyota tranny in it.

[baddisintegra]

which guy..share the secret

[K-ESD]

there is a fine line between frankenstiening a car ala "monster garage" and the mix and match bolt ons. This is what seperates certain engine and tranny combos from the rest. What I mean is we (non-jessy james people) have to work with what FITS !!

If the tranny doesn't bolt to: (refering to only the 6th gen)
a)engines (3SGTE, 7AFE, 5SFE)
b)tranny mounts
c)axle set (right length, right splines+spline lenght)
d)compatible shifter cables

you can forget about it, you will not make it fit without extensive custom work and expensive custom parts. Go back to the drawing board and pick something else.

[baddisintegra]

there is a fine line between frankenstiening a car ala "monster garage" and the mix and match bolt ons. This is what seperates certain engine and tranny combos from the rest. What I mean is we (non-jessy james people) have to work with what FITS !!

If the tranny doesn't bolt to: (refering to only the 6th gen)
a)engines (3SGTE, 7AFE, 5SFE)
b)tranny mounts
c)axle set (right length, right splines+spline lenght)
d)compatible shifter cables

you can forget about it, you will not make it fit without extensive custom work and expensive custom parts. Go back to the drawing board and pick something else.

not nescessarily...for some this is pretty much easily accomplished once the foreground is set for them---the hardest thing honestly would be welding a mounting position(s) into the engine bay...even that can be had for mere bucks also.

once thats done its pretty much dropping basics on installing a tranny but with the addition of an adaptor plate if need be

[Fastbird]

The problem is that when using a bell-housing adapter plate, you run the risk of tne input shaft not seating all the way into the clutch assembly. You'd probably need a custom length input shaft which is going to cost you probably more than the tranny is worth. If you have the money, go for it. But like stated above, for 99.9% of people if it doesn't fit it's not going to be worth the hassle.

[97lestyousay]

has anyone dropped a 6-speed into their celica or if not can you??? if so on either, how much does it cost and where do i find it???

this guy

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Nov 30, 2006 - 11:15 PM

[K-ESD]

there is a fine line between frankenstiening a car ala "monster garage" and the mix and match bolt ons. This is what seperates certain engine and tranny combos from the rest. What I mean is we (non-jessy james people) have to work with what FITS !!

If the tranny doesn't bolt to: (refering to only the 6th gen)
a)engines (3SGTE, 7AFE, 5SFE)
b)tranny mounts
c)axle set (right length, right splines+spline lenght)
d)compatible shifter cables

you can forget about it, you will not make it fit without extensive custom work and expensive custom parts. Go back to the drawing board and pick something else.

not nescessarily...for some this is pretty much easily accomplished once the foreground is set for them---the hardest thing honestly would be welding a mounting position(s) into the engine bay...even that can be had for mere bucks also.

once thats done its pretty much dropping basics on installing a tranny but with the addition of an adaptor plate if need be

if you think it's so easy, i think you should try it.
if you think an "adaptor plate" is the solution and it will work then easily weld in some mounts, all you're missing is a set of axles and shifter cables

seriously tho, try it and come back to us with results. I'm all about new things in the Celica

[Kwanza26]

Auto's are preferred in drag racing for consistency, plain and simple. The flaw was that when comparing gearing you can't compare an auto to a manual because of how they operate. Auto's with the torque converter have a different torque multiplication effect from slippage than a manual does. It really makes a big difference.

... but... I'm not comparing how they operate or even how they shift. I'm comparing gearing. Too tall of gearing drops an engine out of the powerband... too short of gearing negates low-midrange powerband.

My point in making my orignal post was simply that for the motor swap guys, you could potentially increase fuel economy and reduce the engine speed at highway cruise without hurting acceleration (possibly increasing it because of a less steep 1st and 2nd gear allowing better power transfer to the ground via less torque multiplication from the lower gearing) and givng the car some longer legs for the top end (should the need arise) at the same time.
------------------------

I left that original quote of mine above because I'm curious how that sounds like something a muscle car guy would say. If you haven't driven a 3S swapped 6GC with a 5 speed yet, come up and I'll let you drive mine and experience how almost utterly useless 1st gear is. You blink and you bounce off the rev limiter, it really goes by that quickly (not saying it's a bad thing cause it's dang fun, but it would benefit a little from holding on longer). Now, I do realize that there ARE 5 speeds that mate up to the 3S and have the taller gearing, but of those the only one I'm familiar with is the E153 and it's only good for a marginal difference that I can tell (although I do NOT know what the final drive ratio is with the LSD, the MR2 setup essentially). I wouldn't go so far as to call the need for a 6th gear purely aesthetic though. With the shorter gearing even in other 5 speeds, you have essentially mechanically limited the top speed of the car to your rev limiter in 5th gear. This is just a personal opinion that some may share with me, but I'd rather know that I'm not mechanically limited to a top speed and that I'm only limited by the power output and drag coefficient of the car. Texas mile or salt flats anyone???

You make marked points, no doubt. I think we're just looking at things in different perspectives is all. Cheers!

I've driven plenty of all... not specifically a 6th gen... But a 5th, 4th and more MR2 turbos than I can count. I say it sounds like something muscle car guys say because one... in the import world... if you're swapped... fuel economy typically isn't a worry. Gearing alone is gonna improve fuel economy by much, cause if you look at the fuel curves... the difference isn't that big between a few hundred rpms. I've said this before also... if you're worried about fuel economy... turn down the boost and drive like an old lady...

A few notes on trannies... The Camry/Solara e153 does have a taller final drive... should drop about 500 rpms off 5th gear cruise... but you're gonna have to rediff the bastard for LSD. The S51 from the Camry and S52 from older Celicas both too have taller final drives... and taller overall gearing in the S51. There are a few options out there if you're seriously worried about gearing.

[Kwanza26]

6-speeds can be converted, and like previous posters have said, it would be for highway driving if done so, but there are other advantages.

first off if a 1uz v8 swapped into a IS can use be used with a 2jzge straight six tranny, then i believe its possible to mate the 6spd tranny onto 6gc motor. and on the other hand a 6spd tranny could do a world of wonders for 3sgte/3sge motor if the rite 6spd tranny was acquired.

What sort of wonders? Having six gears doesn't make a car magically faster. ALSO... you can't compare RWD trannies to FWD trannies. Why? Toyota has been using the same FWD trannies for the better part of 20 years.

i know for a fact that the tiburon/celica/maxima/sentra 6spd tranny's are all the same but differ in gear ratios. now some gear ratios would be more suitable for a N/A motor and really only one (the 04-06 spec-V) would do well under boost applications

A FACT!? really? Where? Where does it say Toyota, Hyundai, and Nissan all use the same 6 speed tranny?

to do the swap, maybe an adaptor plate along with a different bellhousings, master cylinder if the 6gc is cable, special moutning bracket for the tranny...maybe a couple other things as well

very technically sound advice here.

i've seen the 6spd tranny's being used for both n/a and boost applications on older engines for:

1. stronger transmission
2. better highway fuel mileage
3. there could be better clutch selections
4. also colud be less chance of thrust bearing failure because of less clamping force by clutch

now this is just my speculation on the swap of a 6spd tranny...i am not to familiar with the 5sfe/3sge/3sgte motors (as yet--i plan to pick up a 6gc in the next few weeks )

Insightful!

Ok... seriously now... if you don't know these cars... just stop right there. Do research and come back when you're ready. You gotta read the posts before you make assumptions like these. There are OBVIOUSLY smarter more experienced guys chiming in here... so what makes you... a guy who is "speculating" and "not familiar" qualified?

[Kwanza26]

Hey KWANZA, before you try to jump down someones throat, realize i am not the original poster for this thread....im only supporting what someone may or may not due, in the hope s they may do it......and also dont pick my post apart and only quote one line or two line to make yourself "look" smarter...once again i am only trying to be a supporter of a person who might do something.....at the same time im sure that i said, that this post has given me some ideas as to what i might do to some of my cars, nothing more......ad to be honest, its flame happy ppl like you on this site that usually pushes ppl away from wanting to try new things, so please, back off....thank you and good luck to the original poster of this thread...

Sorry... but I thought you had your flame suit on...

[K-ESD]

there is a fine line between frankenstiening a car ala "monster garage" and the mix and match bolt ons. This is what seperates certain engine and tranny combos from the rest. What I mean is we (non-jessy james people) have to work with what FITS !!

If the tranny doesn't bolt to: (refering to only the 6th gen)
a)engines (3SGTE, 7AFE, 5SFE)
b)tranny mounts
c)axle set (right length, right splines+spline lenght)
d)compatible shifter cables

you can forget about it, you will not make it fit without extensive custom work and expensive custom parts. Go back to the drawing board and pick something else.

not nescessarily...for some this is pretty much easily accomplished once the foreground is set for them---the hardest thing honestly would be welding a mounting position(s) into the engine bay...even that can be had for mere bucks also.

once thats done its pretty much dropping basics on installing a tranny but with the addition of an adaptor plate if need be

reply revisited

this is a bellhousing



it cannot be swapped out for annother one, it is part of the transmission casing
an adaptor plate cannot be used as previously discussed

The problem is that when using a bell-housing adapter plate, you run the risk of tne input shaft not seating all the way into the clutch assembly. You'd probably need a custom length input shaft which is going to cost you probably more than the tranny is worth. If you have the money, go for it. But like stated above, for 99.9% of people if it doesn't fit it's not going to be worth the hassle.

and you're still missing a mega critical part, a set of compatible axles


and shifter cables

so.... what you said is just jibber, go back to the drawing board, no offense intended

[baddisintegra]

What sort of wonders? Having six gears doesn't make a car magically faster. ALSO... you can't compare RWD trannies to FWD trannies. Why? Toyota has been using the same FWD trannies for the better part of 20 years.

well thats just goes to tell you why fix something that isnt broke...and the wonders a 6spd tranny can do:

-7gen celica/matrix tranny--good for n/a applications
-tiburon tranny--good for n/a appl
-05 maxima hlsd tranny--good nor n/a appl
-04-06 specV tranny--good for boost (almost identical gear ratios to EVO MR)

i'll post the gear ratios in another reply

A FACT!? really? Where? Where does it say Toyota, Hyundai, and Nissan all use the same 6 speed tranny?

well i am still on the verge of getting pictures to prove my claim, but i know (from the nissan world) that these tranny's were all able to fit to the sr20 fwd engine w/out adaptor plates and also on various engines--both n/a and boost

very technically sound advice here

well its not brain surgery, its just takes a little knowledge and know how around an engine bay--i am not able to give exact discriptions to actually donig this yet, but i gave the basics--i knowits not good enough information to do the swap rite now, but some people can acquire a feel for the swap from basics

Insightful!

Ok... seriously now... if you don't know these cars... just stop right there. Do research and come back when you're ready. You gotta read the posts before you make assumptions like these. There are OBVIOUSLY smarter more experienced guys chiming in here... so what makes you... a guy who is "speculating" and "not familiar" qualified?

well i have been around toyota's for a little while, mostly 2jz's/7m's--i have never had the oppurtunity to actually sit and study the vehicle as i did others...but that doesnt stop me from knowing what is common for vehicles in general--if a v6 1mz can be fitted into a 6gc that means there is enough room to play in the engine--its why i've made my assumptions---whether they are wrong or rite is still yet to be proven, but as of now you or no one else on this board can say that this swap cant be done...a few threads up has a member with a 6spd box mated to a 3sge--just waiting to see which six speed it actually is

This post has been edited by baddisintegra: Dec 1, 2006 - 5:40 PM

[baddisintegra]

Spec-v 02-03 (n/a)

1 : 3.417:1______36.3 _____1-2 4551
2 : 1.944:1______63.7______2-3 5176
3 : 1.258:1______98.6______3-4 6022
4 : 0.947:1______130.9_____4-5 6530
5 : 0.773:1______160.4_____5-6 6520
6 : 0.630:1______196.8
Final drive : 4.429:1
2439rpm @ 60mph

spec v 04-06 (boost)

1st: 3.153_______42.1_______1-2 4932
2nd: 1.944_______68.3_______2-3 5728
3rd: 1.392 _______95.4_______3-4 6063
4th: 1.055_______125.9______4-5 6134
5th: 0.809 _______164.2______5-6 6655
6th: 0.673_______197.4
Reverse: 3.002
Final drive 4.133
2431rpm @ 60mph

05 Maxima HLSD (n/a)

1st 3.153 = 13.031___42.36mph
2nd 1.944 = 8.034____68.71
3rd 1.392 = 5.753____95.95
4th 1.055 = 4.360____126.6
5th 0.809 = 3.343____165.13
6th 0.630 = 2.604____211.98
Reverse 3.002
Final Gear 4.133_______2264rpm @ 60 mph

Toyota Celica GTS/ Matrix XRS (n/a)

1 : 3.166:1 = 14.333____38.51mph__5181rpm
2 : 2.050:1 = 9.284_____59.46_____5779
3 : 1.481:1 = 6.707_____82.30_____6299
4 : 1.166:1 = 5.281_____104.53____6283
5 : 0.916:1 = 4.148_____133.08____6522
6 : 0.725:1 = 3.382_____163.22
Final drive : 4.529:1________2941rpm @ 60 mph

Tibiron gear ratios (n/a)

1. 3.153 = 13.961_____39.54mph___4932
2. 1.944 = 8.608______64.13______5485
3. 1.333 = 5.902______93.53______6331
4. 1.055 = 4.671______118.18_____6499
5. 0.857 = 3.795______145.46_____6570
6. 0.704 = 3.117______177.10
Reverse 3.002
Final gear ratio 4.428_______2711mph @ 60 mph

[baddisintegra]

reply revisited

this is a bellhousing



it cannot be swapped out for annother one, it is part of the transmission casing
an adaptor plate cannot be used as previously discussed

The problem is that when using a bell-housing adapter plate, you run the risk of tne input shaft not seating all the way into the clutch assembly. You'd probably need a custom length input shaft which is going to cost you probably more than the tranny is worth. If you have the money, go for it. But like stated above, for 99.9% of people if it doesn't fit it's not going to be worth the hassle.


and you're still missing a mega critical part, a set of compatible axles


and shifter cables

so.... what you said is just jibber, go back to the drawing board, no offense intended

bellhousings can be replaced...i know a specV bellhousing is $300 in cost and like i said earlier an adaptor plate may not be needed

axles--dont know if the axles from a 7gc would work as of yet....that still is to be determined but axles can be designed and made to fit (raxles is a company that does it)

shifter cables/shift linkage--i havent seen a problem with to the swap with the sr20's and thats on a similar size motor and also in a smaller chassis--so i doubt the linkage would play a problem, u may also need to use the shifter as well from the gts to complete

This post has been edited by baddisintegra: Dec 1, 2006 - 6:09 PM

[K-ESD]

no, 7th gen axles don't fit, diffrent length, splines and spindels, it's from a diffrent chassis.

replacing the bellhousing would involve rebuilding the whole transmission and for which bellhousing?? a specV?
since when does a nissan sentra specV transmission bellhousing fit a S series or E series toyota transmission? wtf???

custom axles are very expensive - therefor makes this conversion a waste of cash (because as discussed, there are better things to do with excessive money).

You're just spitting out useless information, you barely know anything about the 6GC !!
You don't have any valid information or anything to back up what you say. Please stop this "because this fits in this car and i can do that, then it should be the same in this car" non-sense.


Sorry for being rude but i'm doing this for the comunity, for the sake of good information.

p.s. it's not a 1MZFE, it's a 3MZFE that has been fitted in the 6GC, it's mine !

[Fastbird]

Auto's are preferred in drag racing for consistency, plain and simple. The flaw was that when comparing gearing you can't compare an auto to a manual because of how they operate. Auto's with the torque converter have a different torque multiplication effect from slippage than a manual does. It really makes a big difference.

... but... I'm not comparing how they operate or even how they shift. I'm comparing gearing. Too tall of gearing drops an engine out of the powerband... too short of gearing negates low-midrange powerband.

There's soooo much more to it than just transmission gearing though. Tire heigh and differential gearing (Ok, not so much on the transaxle setups) being the two easiest ways to counteract less than optimal transmission gearing. This is actually the most common way to go about it because it's just not practical to have custom gears made for a tranny. My fuel economy concern isn't that big, but my concern (and primarily annoyance) is with cruising at 4K RPM on the highway for extended periods of time. I just don't like it, and with the custom exhaust, it's a little obnoxious after a while.

reply revisited
and you're still missing a mega critical part, a set of compatible axles


and shifter cables

so.... what you said is just jibber, go back to the drawing board, no offense intended

That is just amusing. You tell me to go back to the drawing board when you're talking about parts to finish the installation, and I'm talking about parts needed to even install the thing!! How is needing a custom length input shaft jibberish is the custom axles and shifter cables won't do anything because the tranny won't engage the clutch?? Thanks for the laugh though.

Oh, and FYI, bellhousings are interchangeable. The bellhousing is not an integral part of the transmission casing and is simply bolted on in most cases.

[K-ESD]

That is just amusing. You tell me to go back to the drawing board when you're talking about parts to finish the installation, and I'm talking about parts needed to even install the thing!! How is needing a custom length input shaft jibberish is the custom axles and shifter cables won't do anything because the tranny won't engage the clutch?? Thanks for the laugh though.

no no, what is amusing is I was backing up the thing about the input shaft using your quote and you think i was talking to you.

go back and read again

ok, now i'm quoting you and talking to you

Oh, and FYI, bellhousings are interchangeable. The bellhousing is not an integral part of the transmission casing and is simply bolted on in most cases.

ok, that may or may not be true for a C160 (the 4AGE black top tranny). I never seen one, however I have a E-153 and a S54 and the bellhousing is as in the pict, part of the gearbox. That being said, we are still going nowhere. Lets pretend a bellhousing can be swapped out on a C160, which bellhousing fits the S block and bolts to a C160? Thats the question we need to find the answer to !! No sense in arguing "yeah this can be done to make it work" without real parts with real results. Lets just work together and GET information, not sh!) information (aka bullsh!). Lets hit the european corolla forums !!

(there we will most likely find out if the bellhousing is a bolt-on deal or not)

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Dec 1, 2006 - 7:56 PM

[Kwanza26]

well thats just goes to tell you why fix something that isnt broke...and the wonders a 6spd tranny can do:

-7gen celica/matrix tranny--good for n/a applications
-tiburon tranny--good for n/a appl
-05 maxima hlsd tranny--good nor n/a appl
-04-06 specV tranny--good for boost (almost identical gear ratios to EVO MR)

i'll post the gear ratios in another reply

That's not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about "OTHER" cars and their 6 speed trannies... we're talking about reasoning behind wanting to put a 6 speed into a 6th Gen Celica and what options are available.

well i am still on the verge of getting pictures to prove my claim, but i know (from the nissan world) that these tranny's were all able to fit to the sr20 fwd engine w/out adaptor plates and also on various engines--both n/a and boost

Prove your claim by listing tranny codes. You're not about to tell me I can pick and choose whatever brand 6 speed tranny and just 'bolt-on' with an adaptor plate. If that's what you're telling me... well... you need to go back to school.

well its not brain surgery, its just takes a little knowledge and know how around an engine bay--i am not able to give exact discriptions to actually donig this yet, but i gave the basics--i knowits not good enough information to do the swap rite now, but some people can acquire a feel for the swap from basics

Note my sarcasm. You're basically saying you don't know and are not sure... but it can be done! Well... yeah... but we're not talking about whether or not it can/cannot be done. We're talking about whether it's worthwhile and HOW and WHAT it needs to be done.

well i have been around toyota's for a little while, mostly 2jz's/7m's--i have never had the oppurtunity to actually sit and study the vehicle as i did others...but that doesnt stop me from knowing what is common for vehicles in general--if a v6 1mz can be fitted into a 6gc that means there is enough room to play in the engine--its why i've made my assumptions---whether they are wrong or rite is still yet to be proven, but as of now you or no one else on this board can say that this swap cant be done...a few threads up has a member with a 6spd box mated to a 3sge--just waiting to see which six speed it actually is

Hahaha... ok... ok... I give up. It's useless to knock sense into someone who just doesn't understand. First off... that picture posted was a 4AGE blacktop 20V... and it came STOCK with that 6 speed tranny. THERE ARE NO STOCK FWD 6 SPEED TRANNIES FOR THE S SERIES MOTORS! PERIOD! The MZ series can be fitted because they share the same tranny as the 3S series... in turn mounts and axles are similar enough to NOT be a headache. Your assumptions have already been PROVEN wrong. You may not think so... but do a search!

Spec-v 02-03 (n/a)

1 : 3.417:1______36.3 _____1-2 4551
2 : 1.944:1______63.7______2-3 5176
3 : 1.258:1______98.6______3-4 6022
4 : 0.947:1______130.9_____4-5 6530
5 : 0.773:1______160.4_____5-6 6520
6 : 0.630:1______196.8
Final drive : 4.429:1
2439rpm @ 60mph

spec v 04-06 (boost)

1st: 3.153_______42.1_______1-2 4932
2nd: 1.944_______68.3_______2-3 5728
3rd: 1.392 _______95.4_______3-4 6063
4th: 1.055_______125.9______4-5 6134
5th: 0.809 _______164.2______5-6 6655
6th: 0.673_______197.4
Reverse: 3.002
Final drive 4.133
2431rpm @ 60mph

05 Maxima HLSD (n/a)

1st 3.153 = 13.031___42.36mph
2nd 1.944 = 8.034____68.71
3rd 1.392 = 5.753____95.95
4th 1.055 = 4.360____126.6
5th 0.809 = 3.343____165.13
6th 0.630 = 2.604____211.98
Reverse 3.002
Final Gear 4.133_______2264rpm @ 60 mph

Toyota Celica GTS/ Matrix XRS (n/a)

1 : 3.166:1 = 14.333____38.51mph__5181rpm
2 : 2.050:1 = 9.284_____59.46_____5779
3 : 1.481:1 = 6.707_____82.30_____6299
4 : 1.166:1 = 5.281_____104.53____6283
5 : 0.916:1 = 4.148_____133.08____6522
6 : 0.725:1 = 3.382_____163.22
Final drive : 4.529:1________2941rpm @ 60 mph

Tibiron gear ratios (n/a)

1. 3.153 = 13.961_____39.54mph___4932
2. 1.944 = 8.608______64.13______5485
3. 1.333 = 5.902______93.53______6331
4. 1.055 = 4.671______118.18_____6499
5. 0.857 = 3.795______145.46_____6570
6. 0.704 = 3.117______177.10
Reverse 3.002
Final gear ratio 4.428_______2711mph @ 60 mph

Wanna know a secret? ALL CARS HAVE GEAR RATIOS!

Posting that a car with 6 gears actually has 6 gears is pointless.

[97lestyousay]

I would like Kwanzas opinion on the black top with the 6 sp.
Right now a black top is my top pick for a swap and was curious
if there would be an advantage to a 6 spd over a 5.

[Kwanza26]

I would like Kwanzas opinion on the black top with the 6 sp.
Right now a black top is my top pick for a swap and was curious
if there would be an advantage to a 6 spd over a 5.

In this specific case... there isn't any real huge advantage... but a 6 speed gets you shorter gears which can help with acceleration. The negative side... 20V's are pretty inconsistant motors. Some blacktops are dyno beasts putting down 140-150 whp... while others barely break 120-130whp.

[Fastbird]

no no, what is amusing is I was backing up the thing about the input shaft using your quote and you think i was talking to you.

go back and read again

My bad man. I looked at it the wrong way. I see what you were saying now. I owe ya one.

[K-ESD]

no no, what is amusing is I was backing up the thing about the input shaft using your quote and you think i was talking to you.

go back and read again

My bad man. I looked at it the wrong way. I see what you were saying now. I owe ya one.

it's cool

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

If someone really wants a 6 speed, the only practical way I see is to put in a 2zzge with the 6 speed manual. Consumer Reports rates that 7th gen at 2425lbs, and the 6th gen at 2395lbs for coupe and 2415lbs for hatch back. With the similar wieght, it would be a worth while swap with 6 speed if you planned on a nice medium powered NA car.

[spke719]

when i was gonna do my engine swap.....(v6 camry motor) my uncle (who runs john brown auto parts) told me i would have to measure my axels to get napa to send the order out to get them made. so it is possible to make custom axels. and the guy that has the 6speed 3sgte is blckgt94 or blck94gt. one of those.

[BDCollard]

No and no...

The ONLY toyota FWD 6 speed is the C60/C160 traannies and those only bolt up to the A series engines. They are also useless on anything that doesn't peak power past 6000 rpms.

I am new to all this but does that mean I could take that tranny and hook it up to my '96 ST 7-AFE engine and have it work? Because I have always wondered if it were possible. If so, do you think it is worth the effort to do it?

[Kwanza26]

I am new to all this but does that mean I could take that tranny and hook it up to my '96 ST 7-AFE engine and have it work? Because I have always wondered if it were possible. If so, do you think it is worth the effort to do it?

Yes... the C60 from the 4AG blacktop can be fitted to a 7AFE... but... it'll be pretty useless cause the gearing is very short. There might be other issues with the tranny mounts and/or the shifter linkages and stuff... but those should be very small.

[Punisher]

Use an e153 and you will have more gearing than you will ever use.. The only time I get over 4K RPM in 5th is when I'm a bit over 100mph... Like around 120mph... a 6spd is just nonsense fan boy dreaming.

[jason]

note to self: use an e153, and if ever want to be amuzed, put on flame suit and post a message to kwanza that i wanna swap in a 6speed, very informative thread here, but i also laughed my a** off at all the bickering goin on here

[95st-celica]

has anyone dropped a 6-speed into their celica or if not can you??? if so on either, how much does it cost and where do i find it???

heres an idea for everyone...why doesnt someone just throw a 6-speend in a celi so we can call it a day and say it CAN be done..like fastbird said its for HIGHWAY USE and i agree with him 110%...im driving on the turnpike every friday and sunday and at 4k at only 80 mph is redicilous..when that damn honda pulls up next to you and your runnin at 70-80 miles an hour you wanna kill that bastard so an extra gear would be superb i cant stand runnin my car at 4200 for over an hour not to mention i can watch my gas gauge steadily drop ....the fact of the matter is..is that a 6th gear would make all the difference...lets get it done men!!!

[K-ESD]

"" Lets it get it done ""

thats the main problem, everyone is saying it, talking about it and not actually getting into the grits of it. No one will ever get a 6 speed in a Celica by just talking. If it would make your driving experience that much better, then it might just be time to sit down and do some research/planing/engineering and get it done !

no offense intended. i'm just pointing out that this thread has been all and only all about opinions and mostly useless information... and thats probably why this thread was buried for almost 4 months.


big props to the one that actually does it.