help with electrical issues (battery draining, battery light on, etc) Options

[brianforster]

ok so i currently have no freaking clue whats wrong with my electrical system.

after the swap , the first time i tried to "daily drive" The car, the car would die after about 3 days of sitting, i figured it was the ****ty walmart battery so my friend lent me a battery and that worked great for like 3 weeks.

fast forward to winter (during the fall i pretty much let the car sit, id drive it prolly once every 2 weeks) i thought all of my electrical problems were over because with this new battery my friend gave me , the car would start fine even after sitting for like 2 weeks.

now winter and my car did not get along, when i went to drive home for thanksgiving, it was freezing out, and i had to jumpstart the car, i noticed that when i was stopped at a light, the battery light would come on, i have learned that this means there is a problem with the charging system (or so i thought?? someone care to clarify this)

so i revved the car up and the light turned off, i made the 2 hour trip home safely because the car never really idled again, woke up the next morning and it was dead (Battery didnt hold charge because it definitly should have charged after a 2 hour ride home)

so , i say SCREW THIS, i drop 150 bucks on an optima red top, i decide i dont wanna have any more battery troubles.. WRONG.

take the car home and i put it in, the car wont crank at full speed? (Wtf?) eventually it seems to go from slow cranking to normal cranking and stay at a normal cranking speed.. but the car will not start.

so, i figure its the alternator, replace that, doesnt fix it.. so i have both the battery and the alternator tested, both are fine.. so it must be a short, right?

well i find that my MAIN battery cable, going to the starter, is frayed and ripped, so i soldered it all up, and electrical taped it real nice.. got the battery fully charged, assembled it all, and it started right up the next morning for me to go back to school.

2 hour drive back to school, park car, due to finals and stuff i dont end up driving the car for 3 weeks.

go to start the car and it needs a jump start, after talking to a few people, most say it is probably normal for a battery to need a jump (it wasnt completely dead, just cranking slowly) after 3 weeks, so i write it off, drive home for a christmas party, drive back, park car, this was saturday.

fast forward to today, thursday, i go to drive the car again (so its been like 5 days, and the battery should theoretically be fully charged since i drove it 2 hours straight) and it needs a jump, well i jump it and all is well.. except when it started to get darker and i turned my lights on, the battery light came on! turned lights off, battery light goes off!

so i drive around for a bit trying to get the battery charged, but after about 20 minutes of driving, i got to the point where the battery light wouldnt come on when i turn the lights on, but would when i turn the highbeams on.

is this just my battery very slowly being charged up by the alternator? i dont udnerstand why the battery light comes on when i use an accessory, if someone could please explain to me how the battery light works perhaps this could enlighten me to my problem.

so now i have two theories, one, when i went to get my battery charged at autozone they charged it but the machine kept reading not charged, so they charged it like 3 times, when they gave my battery back there was acid all over it and it was really really hot, so maybe they overcharged it and damaged it.

second, i have another short somewhere, this battery light problem is weird, maybe the alternator isnt big enough to keep charging this heavy duty red top?

i need your input guys, i think i will probably end up taking it to like a mr tire and having them do a whole electrical system test.

thanks
-brian

[trdproven]

usually when the battery is not charging is because something is drawing power from it directly or was not powered enough from the alternator. Try finding another alternator from the junkyard. This looks like the problem.

[brianforster]

i had the alternator tested like 2 weeks ago and ive only run the car once since then, and that was a 2 hour drive home and a 2 hour drive back to school all in the same day.

[brianforster]

well after letting it sit for like 3 hours , it started right back up and now the lights are on and its idling and no battery light, i guess the battery was just dead and the alternator wasnt charging it fast enough to have all of the accessories running?

either way tomorrow im gonna have both the alternator and battery tested again, and probably exchange the red top since i think autozone damaged it by over charging it.

[brianforster]

had my alternator tested while it was on the car.. the guy said it was charging at 13.9 volts, he had me hold it at 2000 rpm but i dont know if the 13.9 was at idle or at 2000 rpms.. he said its supposed to be 14.6, but my friend said his car charges at 13.2-13.7 and he never once had a problem

he also thinks that since the alternator tested fine out of the car 3 weeks ago, and bad on the car now, that there is probably a short somewhere

what do you guys think

[K-ESD]

the alternator, from my experience, charges at 14.x volts when "cold" and drops to about 13.8 aprox. after a good drive.

things to look for is, like you've found before, bad cables. Double check if the cable on your alternator is damaged or corroded. Check the ground cables also. Make sure all terminals on both ends are in good condition, ie: not corroded. I would also have a shop do a load test on your battery and a parasitic draw test.

[K-ESD]

interesting piece of information about the alternator charging. from toyota EWB

Voltage should be between 13.9V - 15.1V when cold (25*c @ 2000 RPM)
13.5V - 14.3V when warm (115*c @ 5000 RPM)

[brianforster]

well the test was definitly done when the car was warm.. so it seems like my alternator is good

but it doesnt explain why my lights get way brighter when i rev the car up, not like normal, but like, way way brighter.

[K-ESD]

what kind of alternator did you put in?
looks like it can't keep up with a load, either the alternator is malfunctioning or there is a problem in the charging system (ie: all wires, terminals and grounds)

whenever you can, check every little detail of the charging system like i mentioned above. Get in your hands in there and make sure you see every terminal end, wiggle them to see if they are loose. Pay attention to every little detail.

check tightness, damage and corrosion on:
-positive battery cable + terminal
-alternator power cable (white) + terminal
-ground cable, terminal (supposed to be screwed down in two spots near the fuse box on the driver side)
even go and check inside the fuse box to make sure the small terminal ends are tight and corrosion free (you will have to lift the yellow plastic fuse holder piece inside the fuse box)

If everything looks fine, go to autozone where you got your battery to do a load test on it. Have them do a current test on your alternator.

read this post again, get the details

print this off for reference

http://www.celicatech.com/vfewdsou/1995/95...ic/charging.pdf

[brianforster]

i went to the store and purchased a nice digital multimeter and heres what i know:

my battery with the car off was giving like 10.9 volts

with the car on, at idle, fully warmed up, the alternator was putting out 11.2 volts

revved up, the alternator put out 14.2 volts, but the battery was only seeing 13.7 volts of it, is this normal?

also i bought a test light, and sure enough the light lit up when i wired it in series with the positive terminal, now i wonder, do things like the ecu, clock, radio, etc, pull enough juice to light the light? what fuses do i need to pull in order to see if there is a short somewhere.

also, is one of the wires that go to the alternator (one of the three) a reference voltage wire? maybe i could wire in a resister that would allow a jump in voltage? my friend with a grand prix did this because of his smaller pulleys (also i have an underdrive pulley)

thanks everyone for your input

[K-ESD]

10.9 volts is pretty much a dead battery
the voltage loss between the alternator and the battery is not very high but still higher than normal, it is fine tho.

since you bought a meter, you should use it to check for parasitic draw

make sure nothing is on
set you meter on 10A DC and wire it up in series with your terminal clamp and the battery. you should see 0.01A or less anything more is parasitic draw. A test light is not the tool to check for draw.

your underdrive pulley might cause some idle charging problems since it's spinning the alternator at a slower rate than normal but it's charging normaly when you rev it up. this is more than likely the cause of your head light dimming issue. From what I can see the alternator is doing it's job right. It's either you have parasitic draw or you have a bad battery

[soven]

should really read around 12v with the car off. start pulling fuses and see if it brings it back to the normal voltage

[brianforster]

thanks kesd, i totally forgot about the underdrive pulley, this would explain why the off the car test tested the alternator good and the on the car test tested the alternator bad (well he said "its charging at 13.9 which is low")

im going to have the battery charged and tested, as well as try to find this parasitic draw

[brianforster]

ok, update.. today i had the battery tested and replaced because it was faulty, i took the alternator off the car and it tested fine again in the store.

i have not as of yet gotten to test for shorts, but i remember that the other day the car was pulling 0.03 amps when off, which is .02 amps more than what k-esd said it should pull. this leads me to believe there is a small short.

with the tested alternator, and the brand new battery reading 12.6 volts, i tested the voltage on the battery off the car, 12.6, then i put the battery on the car and let it warm up, it would range anywhere from 12.5 to 12.6 volts.

at the alternator it is reading about 12.8 volts now, which i believe to be because of the underdrive pulley.

k-esd, i await your reply (you seem to be the most knowledgeable about this subject lol)

[K-ESD]

The reason you might be getting 0.03 is because the system is reset. I forgot to mention this. You may want to try the test again to see if it will go in some sort of "sleep mode". Door locks ECU, engine ECU, clock, radio, headlight ECU and some other devices all draw a small amount of current for memory and/or for functioning. The ones that are functioning have a timer on them to turn off after a certain amount of time.


The next step is critical, read carefully or you will not get the results you want.

Make sure NOTHING is on or else you will burn the wire.
Do this after leaving the car sitting for 45mins to an hour. (to make sure all the timers are up)

If during any of the step you break the contact between the battery and the clamp (ie no more path from clamp to terminal) you will have to start over again leaving the car for 45m-1hr.

Loosen the clamp bolt but don't break the contact.

Take a piece of wire (16g to 12g), with the clamp still on the terminal, tie the wire to the terminal of the battery and tie the other end to the clamp. Make sure it's secure/long enough not to slip off when you take off the clamp.

Carefully take off the clamp (the wire should make contact between the clamp and the terminal).

Take your meter and attach it to the battery terminal and the clamp (like you've done before to test for draw).

Carefully remove the wire and note the draw.

*for extra safety, you should use a fuse holder w/ 10A fuse instead of a wire. but a wire should work fine, you just have to watch yourself.

also, could you test the battery voltage while running cold and reving 2-3k
you should see 14.x Volts, that means it's charging alright.

[brianforster]

does my idle charging volts seem alright for someone with an underdrive pulley?

also how much of a voltage drop would most cars see after sitting overnight? on the battery that is.

thanks again k-esd, i will try that test asap

also this morning i got a stable 0.02 amps of draw doing the test you first told me, i checked it a few times to make sure, and i held it there for a while to make sure it was stable, and it was.

edit: is it ok to turn my multimeter to 10MA?during these tests, or does it have to be 10A, i think my multimeter finds the correct reading for you, because im pretty sure i get the same 0.0X reading no matter if its on 10A or 10MA

This post has been edited by brianforster: Dec 28, 2006 - 2:18 PM

[AudioFreak]

Realize that with the underdrive pulley you aren't getting full charging ability from the alternator. You have less available power to run the car and even less to recharge the battery.

Something to try. Put the stock pulley back on the alternator and see if your problems go away. It sounds like you eliminated the possibility of a short, bad alternator and you've got a new battery.

Also check your ground wires again the one's by the battery fuse box and the one from the engine to the frame. A bad ground can also cause charging problems.

[K-ESD]

does my idle charging volts seem alright for someone with an underdrive pulley?

also how much of a voltage drop would most cars see after sitting overnight? on the battery that is.

thanks again k-esd, i will try that test asap

also this morning i got a stable 0.02 amps of draw doing the test you first told me, i checked it a few times to make sure, and i held it there for a while to make sure it was stable, and it was.

edit: is it ok to turn my multimeter to 10MA?during these tests, or does it have to be 10A, i think my multimeter finds the correct reading for you, because im pretty sure i get the same 0.0X reading no matter if its on 10A or 10MA

You're welcome

Your idle charging is nothing to not much, you will have to drive (rev) to actually get some charge. You need at least 13volts minimum to have a decent charge. At least you will not loose charge idling, it can still keep up to a bare minimum. If you have amps for subs and/or speakers, you might have charging problems (in the case that you used more power than you produced to a point where the battery gets drained). I'm still curious about what you mentioned earlier in the thread, about someone you know having a resistor to fool the regulator so that it frees up more voltage. However I would be careful not to overcharge when reving.

Your battery should be 12.x to 13 volts after sitting overnight, the .x varies by temperature and condition of charge when you last ran the car.

0.02A is acceptable, it's pretty much where it should be.
you can set your meter to see 100mA range (or 20mA if you have that range) that way you will see more accurately the exact number, not a rounded out number.

you might have the same number on different ranges, only the decimal place changes.
hope this clears things up for you

it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a volt gauge in your car, just to monitor how your alt. is charging.

[brianforster]

is it possible to do a parasitic draw test by going top post to side terminal (i have side terminals now, the thing is, they are hard to get on and off)

[brianforster]

and do you happen to know an acceptable voltage drop overnight? mine dropped from 12.6 to 11.9 last night.. i *think* ill take another reading this morning

[K-ESD]

Your battery should be 12.x to 13 volts after sitting overnight, the .x varies by temperature and condition of charge when you last ran the car.

11.9V I would say, is acceptable but 12V batteries are suppose to keep a 12V charge. There are too many factors that can cause that .1V loss, I wouldn't worry about it.
However, keep track of it to make sure it's not going down even further in the near future. If you can afford it, get a good automatic (preferably digitally controlled) battery charger, nothing fancy, just a 10 to 15A auto charger. It will help you regain the charge your car didn't get with the underdrive pulley.

is it possible to do a parasitic draw test by going top post to side terminal (i have side terminals now, the thing is, they are hard to get on and off)

if you mean "from terminal (side) clamp to top post (battery)" yes you can do that.

[brianforster]

even at idle as soon as i start it up i see the voltage begin to increase on the battery, and it always stops at 12.6 volts

k-esd, can i leave the side terminal clamp connected? and do a parasitic draw test?

[brianforster]

haha well guess what, i decided to start pulling fuses one by one and when i pulled the 10A dome fuse in my engine bay the parasitic draw went from .038 amps to .008! now to figure out what is controlled by that fuse

might i add that it was the first fuse i pulled! hah

im hoping someone has some good news cause i have no idea where to begin when searching for this short.

This post has been edited by brianforster: Dec 29, 2006 - 12:55 PM

[brianforster]

im new to reading wiring diagrams, but according to
http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgb...ewd/circuit.htm

(click on interior light)

the lights around the ignition/cigarette lighter, all interior lights, the hatch light, and the open door lights, are all controlled by this circuit.

[brianforster]

more importantly, there is a fuse on my fuse box cover that has an X over it, but when i remove the fuse the parasitic draw drops just the same as if i remove the 10 amp dome fuses.

i think on my cover it has an X over it cause i might have used an ST fuse box cover on a GT fuse box.. chucky is coming over now with his gt so ill post back in a sec.

[brianforster]

i was wrong, the wiring diagram shows it as a "short pin" which is defined as

"Used to provide an unbroken
connection within a junction block." in mine there is a 20amp fuse, and i remember when a bunch of my electronics didnt work this fuse was blown

[brianforster]

well it had nothign to do with the short pin.. the amps also do not drop when disconneting the keyring light, the cigarette lighter, were now testing the glove box, luggage light...


is it possible for a circuit to be shorted and the light still light up?

[x_itchy_b_x]

for the longest time my car would do crazy crap like this. turns out the wire that bolts to the stud on the alternator was so corrodes it never charged the system. so I had to cut back the wire till i got to good wire an re-solder nice 4 gauge wire on it. fixed my problems.

[brianforster]

k-esd, i see that you are posting, maybe since your on we could chat on aim real quick.. i dont wanna play forum tag anymore and i have a few questions ahah! my aim name is sortafamous

[K-ESD]

k-esd, i see that you are posting, maybe since your on we could chat on aim real quick.. i dont wanna play forum tag anymore and i have a few questions ahah! my aim name is sortafamous

PM'ed

[Jaws4God]

for the longest time my car would do crazy crap like this. turns out the wire that bolts to the stud on the alternator was so corrodes it never charged the system. so I had to cut back the wire till i got to good wire an re-solder nice 4 gauge wire on it. fixed my problems.

do you have a pic?

[jcbass7]

for the longest time my car would do crazy crap like this. turns out the wire that bolts to the stud on the alternator was so corrodes it never charged the system. so I had to cut back the wire till i got to good wire an re-solder nice 4 gauge wire on it. fixed my problems.

^ I had a simillair problem