the v6 swap information thread, UPDATED 3/1/07 Options

[celicaST]

why am i making this thread? after seeing K-ESD's completed v6 swap, i started looking into it as an option. the v6 swap has been a popular swap in mk1 and mk2 mr2's for a while now. v6 swap information is relatively sparse for the celica community, and i want to help change that. seems to me that too many people here jump on the 3sgte bandwagon without really exploring their options. there is a reason that owners of mk2 mr2 turbos are swapping out there 3sgte in favor of a v6. a v6 (by nature of its increased displacement) will give more low rpm torque than a 3sgte will stock for stock, and such, it makes a great daily driver. with relatively moderate modifications, a v6 can be made to produce huge hp with a wide powerband. and the best part, these engine are a dime a dozen. use www.car-part.com to find them locally in salvage yards for cheap. now there are a lot of options for a swap: 3vzfe, 5vzfe, 1mzfe, 3mzfe being the most popular. i myself plan on doing this swap either summer 07 or summer 08. i will be updating this thread with lots of info ive gathered, and it will be regularly checked checked for accuracy and clarity.

purpose of this post is to generate interest in the v6 swap and to provide a one-stop place to compile general and 6gc-specific v6 swap information.

Engine Information:

3VZ-FE:
-3.0L
-cast iron block
-factory engine girdle
-overbuilt internals
-OBD 1
-return type fuel system
-non interference
-distributor ignition
-engine hp/trq
*185hp @ 5200rpm / 195ftlb @ 4400rpm
-found in USDM
*92-93 Toyota Camry
*92-93 Lexus ES 300

1MZ-FE:
-3.0L
-aluminum alloy block
-lightweight internals
-OBD 2
-returnless fuel system 97+
-non interference for non-VVTi, interference for VVTi
-COP ignition
-multiport fuel injection
-forged powdered metal fracture split connecting rod
-drive by wire certain models/years
-engine hp/trq (several revisions)
*94-96: 188hp @ 5200rpm / 203ftlb @ 4400rpm
*97+: 192hp @ 5300rpm / 209ftlb @ 4400rpm
*97+ (solara specific): 200hp @ 5200rpm / 214lbft @ 4400rpm (gains from improved exhaust/intake plumbing)
*99+ with VVTi: 210hp @ 5800rpm / 220ftlb @ 4400rpm
-found in USDM
*94-06 Toyota Camry
*99-03 Toyota Solara
*97-01 Lexus ES 300
*99-03 Lexus RX 300
*95-04 Toyota Avalon
*98-03 Toyota Sienna
-vehicles with VVTi 1mzfe
*03-06 Toyota Camry
*00-04 Toyota Avalon
*01-03 Toyota Highlander
*99-01 Lexus ES 300
*99-03 Lexus RX 300
*01-03 Toyota Sienna

3MZ-FE:
-3.3L
-aluminum alloy block
-VVTi equipped
-shares many components with 1MZ-FE
-sequential fuel injection
-forged steel connecting rod
-drive by wire
-engine hp/trq
*225hp @ 5600rpm / 240ftlb @ 3600rpm
-found in USDM
*04-06 Toyota Camry SE V6
*04- Toyota Camry Solara
*04-06 Toyota Sienna
*03- Toyota Highlander
*03-06 Lexus RX 330
*06- Lexus RX 400h
*04-06 Lexus ES 330

Transmission Information:

Manual Transmissions:

S-54: 3.285, 1.960, 1.322, 1.028, 0.820 / FD: 3.944, 4.176
-3.944 diff found in JDM/UK 2nd and 3rd gen 3S-GE
-4.176 diff found in MK2 MR2 NA and 6gc GT
S-51: 3.538, 1.960, 1.250, 0.945, 0.731 / FD: 3.944
- found in I4 Camry
E-153: 3.230, 1.913, 1.258, 0.918, 0.731 / FD: 3.933, 4.285
-3.933 diff found in V6 Camry
-4.285 diff found in MK2 MR2 turbo
-V6 E-153 upgraded from 2 to 3 synchros 93+

Automatic Transmissions:

A-541E:
A-140E:

Swap Troubleshooting and Guides: to come

Dynos and Engine Specifications:
3VZ-FE vs 1MZ-FE

94 1MZ-FE vs 97 1MZ-FE


97 1MZ-FE vs 99 1MZ-FE with VVTi

VVTi 1MZ-FE vs 3MZ-FE



V6 Discussion Forums:
-mr2boards
-mr2oc (membership required)

6gc V6 Swaps:
-K-ESD with 3MZ-FE
-1MZ-FE swap (pics only)

Pictures
3VZ-FE vs Eagle 22R vs 1MZ-FE


This post has been edited by celicaST: Mar 1, 2007 - 8:03 AM

[My2Celi]

I've researched a bit and I leaning toward the 3vz.

[celicaST]

I've researched a bit and I leaning toward the 3vz.

im going back and forth, havnt decided yet. hard to pass up the 3vzfe because you can find them so cheap. here are some pros and cons of each.

3vz pros: heavily built, wide powerband down low, cheap, easier to wire with obd1, great engine for FI, receptive to tuning cons: heavy, older engine, less power up top, illegal

1mz pros: lighter with aluminum block, great for NA, newer engine (presumably more fuel efficient), available with vvti, available trd supercharger, legal swap cons: more expensive, weaker internals, knock sensor problems, sludge problems pre-03, harder to tune

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 6, 2007 - 12:55 AM

[j0e_p3t]

man, forget my beams swap. i now want a 99+ 1mzfe.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Seems a no brainer to me to go with a 04+ 1mzfe. Lighter is better. Tuning will be harder at first, but there is more potiential to make it not only a powerful motor but a reliable one too.

[Rayme]

Seems a no brainer to me to go with a 04+ 1mzfe. Lighter is better. Tuning will be harder at first, but there is more potiential to make it not only a powerful motor but a reliable one too.

I've seen K-ESD’s swap, its not for the light hearthed ! the 04+ 3mzfe features tons of electronic, just on top of my head, you need to get misc parts like the immobilizer and the whole plastic pedal assembly as its a drive by wire engine. If you somebody is willing to sacrifice a little HP to for easier swap, go a little older. But hey, what do I know

This post has been edited by Rayme: Feb 6, 2007 - 10:52 AM

[FORGMANN]

hmm .. a few notes ..

i highly reccommend getting a manual ecu 1mz or at least 94-95 1mz due to less wiring and will blend better with 94-99 celica ..

auto tranny for v6 may work if you have a auto but front and rear mounts may be an issue have not confirmed for all you auto 6gc's

some 1mz ecu's have immobilizer and some dont .. you have no way of knowing until it is plugged in but they are out there .. if you buy a motor get the vin from car and dealer can run a check on it to see if it have immobilizer ..

if you are not good with wiring then forget this swap .. 10-15 hours of wiring work or more ..

here are some things to note ..

custom y-pipe must be made and dont waste time using oem gt/st exhaust ..

forget about using 5sfe tranny .. mr2 guys breaking these trannies and it is half ass anyway.. just get a proper solara tranny with rear 205 mount .. all 205 if possible .. use poly mounts as well as motor torque will make engine move and hit rad .. uise 205 cable as well ..

have to use a ST throttle cable as it will bolt right to t/b but will need to mod bracket a bit ..

there is a lot more... full write up with pix coming in next few weeks . i am 33 and been working on toyota engine for years so any info i give is coming from my experience working on this swap and others and will be a complete as possible .. i will say done right this motor looks like oem install .. fool just about anyone .

NOTE .. ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SAVE TIME AND MONEY PM I HAVE 1MZ AND 3MZ PASS SIDE ADPATER PLATE FOR SALE .. .. YOU USE PASS SIDE FRAME MOUNT AND PART OF 5SFE MOUNT AND THEN MY PLATE BOLTED TO 1MZ/3MZ .. $20 SHIPPED .. MAKES ENGINE A BOLT IN AFFAIR WITH 205 MOUNTS ON SOLARA TRANNY ..

This post has been edited by FORGMANN: Feb 6, 2007 - 3:16 PM

[jdg371]

the V series engine is best for Forced Induction. 3VZFE and 5VZFE
The M series are great if you plan on staying NA although TRD has a supercharger for the. 1MZFE and 3MZFE

Wiring for the newer engines might be the biggest problem for these swaps. Don't worry so much about will it fit.. theres room.

MR2OC has a huge collection of V6 MR2s and very good articles about them. This type of build would be a great track car.


I believe there are 2 accounts recorded for V6 Celicas.. Adrian with his 1MZFE [MKV] 5gc and K-ESD with his 3MZFE [MKVI] 6gc

[FORGMANN]

correction make that 3 .. and btw there is just enough room not a lot of room front to back

details by end of month.. here is a teaser pix..




This post has been edited by FORGMANN: Feb 6, 2007 - 3:44 PM

[azian_advanced]

^nice.

[Batman722]

correction make that 3 .. and btw there is just enough room not a lot of room front to back

details by end of month.. here is a teaser pix..

OH SNAP !!!

[j0e_p3t]

more pics!

[Chanh55]

Nice write up.

This post has been edited by Chanh55: Feb 8, 2007 - 11:36 AM

[FORGMANN]

here is y pipe .. you have to run something similar to this pipe due to fact oem or anything resembling it will not work do to front to rear brace ..

this pipe is made for solara so it will be modded slightly as well as headers to clear brace and rear crossmember to mount just a like a 5sfe pipe .. using this pipe i had to cut zero on chassis and everything mounts like oem

you can't buy these pipes anymore but if you do swap just have shop do something simlar .. 2.5" and we are using like new v6 cat and mates right to greddy SP after modding the extra test pipe included with y pipe.. no cutting or modding needed of SP ..





This post has been edited by FORGMANN: Feb 8, 2007 - 1:36 PM

[laff09]

isnt 13 an unlucky number?

[celicaST]

new and revised info added

[j0e_p3t]

bump

[Punch]

nice you should do one on boost , there a afew solora's turobed ....

This post has been edited by Punch: Apr 8, 2007 - 3:05 PM

[Kwanza26]

If it were me doing this swap... 1/3MZ or nothing. There is no advantage going for the 3VZ... and no... an iron block is not an advantage.

[snapshotgt]

nice you should do one on boost , there a afew solora's turobed ....

It would have to be older V6, VVT-i engines do not like boost to my knowledge.

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Apr 10, 2007 - 4:13 PM

[stephen_lee]

I'm planning on swapping in a 5VZ-FE into my 94 ST. Are there any major fitment issues? i know i'll have to change motor mounts. but thats expected for any non "A" block. And since the 3vz in the Camry comes with the e-153 tranny, the e-153 should then bolt up to the engine, right?

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Apr 10, 2007 - 5:16 PM

[FORGMANN]

the one issue you may have is the height of motor in relation to height clearance you have for hood ..

the front bank on a 3mz/1mz is 1/2" or so from hitting in front..

i would reccomend a 94-95 1mz with return fuel set up so you wont need to mod fuel lines just toss in a

walbro ..

the 1mz is a failry easy install (engine /tranny bolted in with adapter plate and using st205 mounts)

i personally like the 1mz-3mz motors over 3vz/5vz motors even though wiring is more involved ..

[stephen_lee]

Hmm, okay. i was leaning towards the 3MZ at first, but its harder to find. How complicated would the fuel situation be for the 3MZ? What tranny would be best?? and the wiring, i don't exactly understand why/how this is done..

[My2Celi]

How did you fabricate your adapter plate? Will it be like the guys on the mr2oc forum? and what did you do with the axle?

[Celicaguy13]

Awesome! more v6 celicas. I'm planning to do this in the future forsure. The more info the marryier!

[celicaST]

If it were me doing this swap... 1/3MZ or nothing. There is no advantage going for the 3VZ... and no... an iron block is not an advantage.

not true. if you plan on turbocharging (although a turbo v6 isnt the greatest idea in a fwd car), the 3vz is a much better option. it is cheaper on average, easier to wire, easier to tune, no sludge problem. then there is this thread. a little biased, but the general consensus is FI=vz and NA=mz. considering most on here would swap a v6 and leave it stock, the mz is the better choice i agree, but that doesnt mean the vz has no advantages.

stephen, yes the 5vz will bolt up to the e-153, and you shouldnt have any fitment issues. its been done in an sw20. great motor with lots of low end torque. there is a manual 5vz 5 miles from me with only 70k i can get for cheap. tempting, but i myself am leaning towards the 3sgte again instead of the v6. been driving lots of cars at my new job, and i must say i love boost. i live at a mile in elevation, and a boosted car is the only way to go up here. im sure ill change my mind several more times before i commit to buying an engine (if i even do).

[Kwanza26]

If it were me doing this swap... 1/3MZ or nothing. There is no advantage going for the 3VZ... and no... an iron block is not an advantage.

not true. if you plan on turbocharging (although a turbo v6 isnt the greatest idea in a fwd car), the 3vz is a much better option. it is cheaper on average, easier to wire, easier to tune, no sludge problem. then there is this thread. a little biased, but the general consensus is FI=vz and NA=mz. considering most on here would swap a v6 and leave it stock, the mz is the better choice i agree, but that doesnt mean the vz has no advantages.

A bunch of opinion. Kinda like when Freud came up with the super ego "theory" to justify his "love" for his mother... heh. j/k... but you get what i'm saying? I've been around engines for too long, highly modded, ones, stock one, doesn't matter... and having an iron block doesn't automatically make that engine stronger for boost. Take the Sr20 for example. Is it any weaker than the 3SG? most would argue no. Easy question... when boosted engines blow up... is it ever because the the "BLOCK" gave out? No... never. The block sometimes takes a beating, but that's always because a rod broke and punched a hole through it, or a piston flew apart or something. It's never.... oh just because it's alluminum it's gonna break while the rods and pistons are intact. The alluminum block itself actually feels very little friction, aside from heat... but that's the same as an iron block... however, the iron block, most of which are closed deck, do feel from friction. I still say... go with the newer engine. There's absolutely no reason to go with the VZ forced induction or otherwise... besides maybe a money matter. Even still... they're not that different. Anyway... i'll be slowing tearing down a 5VZFE at the shop and I'll be sure to save the rods just to make a comparison in the future.

And... some those MR2 guys are noobs. A mirror polish on the intake ports = Bad for performance... not to mention he bothered to do the polish job and not clean the head... =O lol... each to his own I suppose.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Apr 11, 2007 - 10:14 AM

[FORGMANN]

guys i will tell you the absolute best set up is a 94-96 1mz or 97-99 1mz if you cant find other years ..

why .. wiring, return fuel set up, similar functions to 6g compared to later camry's etc.. and you have a lot

less emissions components to deal with and most of all they are cheap .. will save a ton of $$$$

On 3vz/5vz why put a older motor in car ? ..80's designed motor .i should point out packaging a turbo in

v6 celica can be done but very very tight space . will have to place where battery goes .. twin turbo ? forget

it .. use 2 small turbo's but lot of work to make fit and still have oem feel ..

[FORGMANN]

btw

here is a 4g swap .. overall most info can be used for 6g ..wiring is diff of course as well as engine mount

on pass side

http://www.st162.com/forums/viewtopic.php?...;highlight=swap

[celicaST]

guys i will tell you the absolute best set up is a 94-96 1mz or 97-99 1mz if you cant find other years ..

why .. wiring, return fuel set up, similar functions to 6g compared to later camry's etc.. and you have a lot

less emissions components to deal with and most of all they are cheap .. will save a ton of $$$$

On 3vz/5vz why put a older motor in car ? ..80's designed motor .i should point out packaging a turbo in

v6 celica can be done but very very tight space . will have to place where battery goes .. twin turbo ? forget

it .. use 2 small turbo's but lot of work to make fit and still have oem feel ..

woulndt a 97+ 1mz be better for 96-99 celicas since they are obd2 and returnless i believe?

[FORGMANN]

yes and no ..

96-98 would be "better" for later spec celicas if you live in a nazi emission testing state ..


you can adapt return style set up to this motor as well just need to add a fpr like mr2's guy have done


94-02 non vvt-i 1mz parts will interchange through out years .. need return fuel set up .. find a 94-95 and

all you need is fuel rail and parts bolted to it ... i would use injectors if you can get them ..

when i go to yards(been to some any i lost count ) i always scope out core motor pile as well .. you can find dumb parts like

fuel rails and get them for super cheap or free ..

[stephen_lee]

Well, i've decided on the 3VZ-FE. Does anyone know how much trouble I'll have w/ the motor mounts, since i habe ab AT200 chassis??

[snapshotgt]

I think we need another teaser pic bwahahaha

[Jeremiah]

Okay, as a newb and as someone that lives in the NAZI smog capitol of California...

* What are my OBDI options? (I have a 95)
* What's this fuel return / returnless stuff?
* Looks like the V6 is a tight squeeze. How easy is it to service the different V6's? For example, is there easier access to plugs / oil filters on one engine over another?
* Does anyone know the weight difference between the cast and aluminum blocks? Would I have to purchase stiffer springs up front to correct ride height?
* Can I keep A/C with any of these, or do I have to ditch it to make room?
* Dare I ask what the MPG will be after a swap like this?
* If I get an engine that's known for sludge issues - how do I combat it?

(I have a 95). In California, you can swap any passenger car engine in the Celica as long as 1) It comes from same year or newer doner car 2) all original smog equipment is installed. Take it over to CHP, and they check it out - and blue sticker it. In other words, I CAN do OBDII legally, but it'd be a wiring nightmare right?

This post has been edited by Jeremiah: Apr 23, 2007 - 10:30 PM

[Celicaguy13]

wow due your getting your info from an old site... You don't take it to CHP, you make an appointment to see a Smog check Referee. There the inspection will be performed which is basically a regular smog check but also to make sure it's connected as the donner vehicle. After that is done and completed, a BAR Label will be issued and you will be able to smog your vehicle in the regular manor.

And in regards to an OBDII swap, these are a bit more complex but feasable. OBDII comes with a lot of self testing monitors that you have to make sure work. The easiest way to do a obdII swap is to start off with an OBDII but it's still workable. You can do a 95 V6 MT, it's just going to be hard to get the right PCM for it. As i recall a 95 v6 mt camry was very very rare. But if you have any other questions PM me as i can go quite in depth on this.

[j0e_p3t]

^ so that's all i have to do after the swap is done? and then i'd have a completely street legal 200++ hp celica in california?!

edit: bump for more info

This post has been edited by j0e_p3t: May 1, 2007 - 12:06 AM

[Jeremiah]

Can anyone tell me which V6's had the sludge problems, and what can be done (if anything) to correct the sludge issues?

[stephen_lee]

im not sure which engines had the problem, but its due to the fact that toyota found that if the head is hotter, it would get slightly more power && better economy. which, to an extent, is true. but it cooked the oil that went through the head, and caused it to "sludge up". they skimped on the cooling channels in the head. so as far as i know, its not correctable.

[My2Celi]

Well it doesn't matter just get either a 3vz, 5vz, 1mz, 3mz and get it in our car. Better than a 5s wouldn't you say? If the majority of mr2oc community is doing it, it's not a big deal. It's not even an issue.

[Celicaguy13]

^ so that's all i have to do after the swap is done? and then i'd have a completely street legal 200++ hp celica in california?!

edit: bump for more info

After looking up some info on this swap. It is a close call to get a v6 OBDI legal in a 94-95 celica. Because, no vehicle camry/es300 came with a manual transaxle option in those years. The reason that's important is because we have to make sure timing specs are available for Engine/Tranny/Year. Although further research in our books reviels that "Motor Emission control systems application 2006 Edition" has the 94-95 camry with a v6 5 speed option. So It's a go. However some referees may not have the book and some may. We have it so it's been cleared.

[j0e_p3t]

but obd2 should be no prob right? i'm planning on a 99+ imz in a couple years... hopefully.

[celicaST]

Can anyone tell me which V6's had the sludge problems, and what can be done (if anything) to correct the sludge issues?

sludge, there you go. problem was fixed in 03+ 1mz's

[Celicaguy13]

but obd2 should be no prob right? i'm planning on a 99+ imz in a couple years... hopefully.

obd2 just has a lot more wiring/sensors you have to deal with. However on one of the mr2 sites, there's actually a Complete writeup on how to do a obd2 1mz swap into a obd1 vehicle. Even though it's a mr2, the basic parts needed are there.

[undasighted]

correction make that 3 .. and btw there is just enough room not a lot of room front to back

details by end of month.. here is a teaser pix..

Are you by any chance considering performing this swap for local 6gc owners?


I love the feel of V6. Just immediate and ballsy pickup regardless of what speed you're at.

Seriously, if it's something you would consider, let me know.

[CelicaST_CALI]

Ok im also in cali and u say that all of the engine swaps metioned are legal..sweet!!!What is the gas milage like far all the engines for a 1994 ST coupe,cause we all know gas will hit over at least 5$ within 2 years,at least in california and i dont wanna have a car under 20 mpg.

[Kwanza26]

After looking up some info on this swap. It is a close call to get a v6 OBDI legal in a 94-95 celica. Because, no vehicle camry/es300 came with a manual transaxle option in those years. The reason that's important is because we have to make sure timing specs are available for Engine/Tranny/Year. Although further research in our books reviels that "Motor Emission control systems application 2006 Edition" has the 94-95 camry with a v6 5 speed option. So It's a go. However some referees may not have the book and some may. We have it so it's been cleared.

Generally speaking I don't think they care what tranny you run so long as emission and performance related parts haven't been tampered with.

[j0e_p3t]

but obd2 should be no prob right? i'm planning on a 99+ imz in a couple years... hopefully.

obd2 just has a lot more wiring/sensors you have to deal with. However on one of the mr2 sites, there's actually a Complete writeup on how to do a obd2 1mz swap into a obd1 vehicle. Even though it's a mr2, the basic parts needed are there.

okay off topic, but you seem to know a lot about cali vehicle emmission laws and what-not. so do you know what i would have to do to import and register a st205 and make it street legal?

[Celicaguy13]

I don't know how to actually import the car. However when you do so you have to get Federal safety certified. And in order to get it legal In cali, the proceedure is actually quite simple as long as you import a 94-95 st205. Since the 3sgte was offered in those years, all you have to do is pretty much put all required emission equipment that was required in the 94-95 mr2 turbo, as well as routing all vacuum lines. The only custom work you would have to do is get the EGR system installed and operational. Since it's a AWD, a TSI (Two Speed) test is going to be performed. And when that is done, the egr valve is manually tested with a vacuum pump. However, when it comes down to it, i think that's the easier part when it comes to importing a vehicle. And yes you would have to make an appointment with a State Referee to get "Emission certified".

This post has been edited by Celicaguy13: May 8, 2007 - 4:02 AM

[Celicaguy13]

After looking up some info on this swap. It is a close call to get a v6 OBDI legal in a 94-95 celica. Because, no vehicle camry/es300 came with a manual transaxle option in those years. The reason that's important is because we have to make sure timing specs are available for Engine/Tranny/Year. Although further research in our books reviels that "Motor Emission control systems application 2006 Edition" has the 94-95 camry with a v6 5 speed option. So It's a go. However some referees may not have the book and some may. We have it so it's been cleared.

Generally speaking I don't think they care what tranny you run so long as emission and performance related parts haven't been tampered with.

And the tranny does matter. Because of timing specs. Even though most cars timing specs are the same, whether it's a manual or auto. There needs to be official specs in the books for the engine/tranny combo being tested.

Now that i think about it, i'll ask what the rules are for non adjustable engine swaps. hence vvti v6's. because those weren't offered with a manual trans. but I don't want to get your hopes up.

This post has been edited by Celicaguy13: May 8, 2007 - 4:01 AM

[Jeremiah]

Look - Hit up the DMV web site, or go to the DMV for all information regarding the law on engine swaps. Since California is one of the strictest places on the planet when it comes to SMOG regulations - GO TO THE SOURCE. If you don't read it, and you spend thousands of $$$ and your time to do a swap, and the ONLY research you did depend on this thread, I will mock you later when you can't get your blue sticker.


That said - I plan on going with an automatic when I do the swap anyway. I've driven auto V6's in yotas before, and I'm very pleased with how they function.

I'm still not sure what direction I want to go in. I was sold on the OBDI because of ease of install wiring, and the engine is supposed to be mechanically easier to work on. However, sounds like they have sludge issues in those years, and I'm not sure how to combat / correct for that

[Celicaguy13]

Look - Hit up the DMV web site, or go to the DMV for all information regarding the law on engine swaps. Since California is one of the strictest places on the planet when it comes to SMOG regulations - GO TO THE SOURCE. If you don't read it, and you spend thousands of $$$ and your time to do a swap, and the ONLY research you did depend on this thread, I will mock you later when you can't get your blue sticker.


That said - I plan on going with an automatic when I do the swap anyway. I've driven auto V6's in yotas before, and I'm very pleased with how they function.

I'm still not sure what direction I want to go in. I was sold on the OBDI because of ease of install wiring, and the engine is supposed to be mechanically easier to work on. However, sounds like they have sludge issues in those years, and I'm not sure how to combat / correct for that

Well it's a good idea to go to the right source if you directed people to the right site. You want to go to www.arb.ca.gov. Also I don't know where you hear it's called a blue sticker. It's a bar label and it's white.

Anyways, I don't post information that I dont know what the heck i'm talking about. All the information i post is what i know is FACT. And if i'm not sure about something, i'll say it up front. It's people like you that cause people to back off from projects when you don't know what is correct.

P.S. It's not nice to mock people... we'll be mocking you when your driving an auto v6 and we're driving our legal v6 mt's

[CelicaST_CALI]

lol amen to the mocking of the auto!!!!And no one answered me, wat is it Gas milage of these engines?

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: May 9, 2007 - 5:24 PM

[Kwanza26]

Anyways, I don't post information that I dont know what the heck i'm talking about. All the information i post is what i know is FACT. And if i'm not sure about something, i'll say it up front. It's people like you that cause people to back off from projects when you don't know what is correct.

You don't know for a FACT you have to keep the AUTO. You shouldn't say you know for sure because even smog techs and BAR refs don't know for sure. It's subjective and depends on the tech, but in the end the ONLY reason the tranny may be a concern is to check stock timing specs, which is sometimes different between a manual and auto. Take for example, some Honda engines run around 20 degrees BTDC with the auto, while the manual is around 15 degrees BTDC. Still, this should NOT be a problem because the engine itself runs base timing between 8-12 degrees BTDC regardless of auto/manual trans... not to mention a later versions were availiable with a factory 5 speed. Again... so long as the emissions and performance related parts/specs are intact and functional, along with all of the stock wiring related thereof... you'll be OK for BAR. How do I know? Well... I kinda sorta do run a smog shop.

and... the 1MZFE motors typically get around 20mpg city and 25-28mpg highway.

[Jeremiah]

All the information i post is what i know is FACT. And if i'm not sure about something, i'll say it up front.

Good for you. Here's a cookie:

It's people like you that cause people to back off from projects when you don't know what is correct.

Wait, so you didn't say "I don't know about this." so... it must be FACT right? Can you provide evidence of this FACT? Because it seems more like conjecture and opinion to me.

It's not nice to mock people... we'll be mocking you when your driving an auto v6 and we're driving our legal v6 mt's

The irony in that statement is astounding. And, I don't care if you mock me in my V6. If you think you're superior because of a slightly quicker vehicle, I'll be immature too and point out I own a Kawasaki Ninja. I'll gladly race you for pinks if you want to man up.

Or... you can realize I was emphasizing a point with sarcasm. California really is one of the strictest places on the planet for SMOG. It's would behoove anyone in Cali who's intersted in this swap to be comfortable with the law regarding engine swaps - if that statement discourages anyone from doing the swap - GOOD. I probably saved them time, money and frustration. Research first - THEN do swap.

PS - I called it a blue sticker, because back in the day when you did swaps CHP would inspect your vehicle and give you a blue sticker. It's a legacy term. When I tell you to "Dial" a number, that's a legacy term to. They exist. Go take your prozac and relax.

[celicaST]

That said - I plan on going with an automatic when I do the swap anyway. I've driven auto V6's in yotas before, and I'm very pleased with how they function.

I'm still not sure what direction I want to go in. I was sold on the OBDI because of ease of install wiring, and the engine is supposed to be mechanically easier to work on. However, sounds like they have sludge issues in those years, and I'm not sure how to combat / correct for that

i looked into the automatic option a little bit. i *think* the mounts are the same for the e-153 and the a541e. issue would be coming up with a solution for axels. forgmann sent me a pm of what might work with axels but i deleted it.

only the 3vzfe is obd1 and those do not have the sludge problem. the pre 03 1mzs are the ones with the sludge problem. its oil passageways through the head that cause the problem, but i doubt its a huge issue. if you change your oil regularly and run seafoam through it occasionally you should be fine.

[Jeremiah]

i looked into the automatic option a little bit. i *think* the mounts are the same for the e-153 and the a541e. issue would be coming up with a solution for axels. forgmann sent me a pm of what might work with axels but i deleted it.

Yeah, the axles in any application are what puzzles me. I'd really really like to do an auto, as I spend too much time in stop & go traffic these days The auto is vastly superior in those conditions. And, I've driven several V6 w/ auto's... they're much Much MUCH better than people give them credit for. The auto's on our little 4 bangers suck... but the V6 is a totally different animal.

only the 3vzfe is obd1 and those do not have the sludge problem.

Good to know 'cause I'm really leaning towards that motor. It's supposed to be much easier to swap / maintain and the weight difference isn't that significant - not when I'll have 200 HP on tap. The bottom end power is just AMAZINGLY better compared to a turbo setup, and being NA it'll last much longer. I can always add an illegal turbo if I want more vroom

[FORGMANN]

if you guys noticed that 1mz swap done in Uk was a AUTO SWAP ... pix were in a diff thread


easiest way to do axles is just like manual .. need 90-93 all-trac axles and find auto rear jackshaft from
a 94+ es300, 96+ avalon, and camry from mid 90's ...i cant confirm all years but i have see 6 bolt cv joints
on all these models at yards .. also need inner axle from same car for dr side and then bolt to all trac axle..

btw this info is for v6 auto tranny ..not 5sfe tranny

you will also need spacer like 3sgte guys use ....

another way could be to just build some hybrid axles if you can't find all trac axles (6 bolt) .. might just try
to stick in camry ,etc as is and see how they fit and adjust mod as needed ..

i will say if on budget do not get a 3.3L or even 02 or newer just stick with older late 90's 1mz and rebuild with new bearings etc... and save some money .. just so much more to deal with on later motors ..

[Eds94GT]

I found the engine I want in by 6gc!!! What a bad a## swap it would make! This guy has made alot of engine mods and it would look great under the hood of a celica!! What do you all think?


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/378213/2

[snapshotgt]

Teaser video

[stephen_lee]

I'm definitely going with the 3VZ-FE, for a few reasons.
7200 rpm fuel cut! (thatts higher than my 7A)
no speed limiter...(ST is somewhere between 110-115)
strong from the factory
the most torque-y engine i've heard of.
mm, turbo anyone?

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Jun 3, 2007 - 2:47 PM

[stephen_lee]

Quoted $7500 from the Doc.
a little more than the 3s. but i think it'll be worth it?

[My2Celi]

My input would be

You need:
Motor: 3vzfe, 4vzfe, 5vzfe, 1mzfe, 3mzfe
Transmission: V6 Camry, V6 Solora, Turbo Mr2, ES300 (E153 or auto)
Motor mounts: altrac mounts on all side except for front GT motor mount ill work, passenger side will need to have an adapter plate
ECU: best to use a Camry, Solara, or ES300 ECU or use a EMS
Engine harness
Misc: Custom Y pipe as said already on the thread, metal HG for 3vz users,
Axle: ??? <-- havent got there yet.

I know i'm missing more stuff but I will keep updated with my project.

[stephen_lee]

My input would be

You need:
Motor: 3vzfe, 4vzfe, 5vzfe, 1mzfe, 3mzfe
Transmission: V6 Camry, V6 Solora, Turbo Mr2, ES300 (E153 or auto)
Motor mounts: altrac mounts on all side except for front GT motor mount ill work, passenger side will need to have an adapter plate
ECU: best to use a Camry, Solara, or ES300 ECU or use a EMS
Engine harness
Misc: Custom Y pipe as said already on the thread, metal HG for 3vz users,
Axle: ??? <-- havent got there yet.

I know i'm missing more stuff but I will keep updated with my project.

i have an AT200, would the alltrac mounts work w/ the 3VZ still?

[My2Celi]

yup. Who else on here is doing the swap or planning to?

[stephen_lee]

i really think the swaps are worth it.
yes 4cyl are fun and sporty, but so are the right V6s
make sure they have a decent redline (3VZ !! )
and they'll have a much smoother feel,
a lot more power,
much more rewarding to mods,
all in all, the celica should come w/ one.
but then it'd be a supra

edit: i know supras are I6

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Jun 4, 2007 - 12:10 PM

[Jeremiah]

As long as the total cost of the project is under a couple grand I think it's worth it. If it's too costly, I'll just buy a sportier car to begin with.

[praetor]

My input would be

You need:
Motor: 3vzfe, 4vzfe, 5vzfe, 1mzfe, 3mzfe
Transmission: V6 Camry, V6 Solora, Turbo Mr2, ES300 (E153 or auto)
Motor mounts: altrac mounts on all side except for front GT motor mount ill work, passenger side will need to have an adapter plate
ECU: best to use a Camry, Solara, or ES300 ECU or use a EMS
Engine harness
Misc: Custom Y pipe as said already on the thread, metal HG for 3vz users,
Axle: ??? <-- havent got there yet.

I know i'm missing more stuff but I will keep updated with my project.

i have an AT200, would the alltrac mounts work w/ the 3VZ still?

I'm also going to do this conversion... probably early next year the way things are looking at the moment

all this talk of different engines is confusing... im sure i'll work it out slowly

questions -

Is there a reason you have to use GT4 mounts? Or is just because they are stronger?
Does the stock gearbox mount up? I know it's going to be weaker, just wondering if it would fit at all
Any word on what needs to be done with axle's?
People are saying that ODBCII is harder to wire, but wouldn't all the sensors come with the engine? What extra stuff does it have that is so hard to wire?
How does drive by wire work? I'm assuming you need different pedals that wire into the ECU?

[6strngs]

So, if you got a 1mzfe from a 94-97camry, it'll bolt up to the stock tranny and you can use stock axles, right? Then you just need an ECU from a manual transmission, a harness, and one ST205/185 engine mount, and the cutom y-pipe thing, right? other than that, it would go in with no problems?

I know the S54 isn't optimal, but that's what people say about using it with a 3sgte, and people still do it. I would get an E-153 down the road, but to cut cost substantially so I could have it done sooner, an S54 could still be used, right?

This post has been edited by 6strngs: Aug 12, 2008 - 1:48 AM

[Legit94GT]

So buying the v6 is way cheaper than doing a 3s...hmmmm ($1,200 -1,800 3MZFE or $3,500 -4,000 3SGTE)

I know there is a lot more modification to do which is a but if the shop will do the v6 swap for less than the 3s swap then a v6 swap will do it for me, i just want more power:)

I hate not have a garage or tools:(

Great topic, nicely done with lots of info!!

[3SGTE-auto]

I have a Celica and it was a 2.2L Automatic when I bought it in 2004. It was so good for the first year of driving it. One day I was driving up a hill and I don't know how I did it, but i reved it past 8000 (it is an auto, so how did that happen>?) and ... boom clunk clunk... piston came right through the bottom of the engine!

I bought a 3S-GTE engine and mated it to the FWD auto trans, with an electronic trans controller, and been LOVING the car SOO much ever since!

I was seriously contemplating the purchase of a 6 speed auto trans (U660E). Will it fit? I can confirm that the bell housing will mate to the 3SGTE, so yes, i reckon it's a way to go. Gotta try it....

But now.... I'm considering a new V6 option: If I purchased a 3.5L V6 engine and trans, and wiring harness, would THAT all fit into the Celica? I can get the whole lot for about $5K... Thoughts anyone?

Also, how do you guys change the spark plugs on your V6 Celicas? aren't they hard to get to?

Cheers,

Damian

[palooke]

I have a Celica and it was a 2.2L Automatic when I bought it in 2004. It was so good for the first year of driving it. One day I was driving up a hill and I don't know how I did it, but i reved it past 8000 (it is an auto, so how did that happen>?) and ... boom clunk clunk... piston came right through the bottom of the engine!

I bought a 3S-GTE engine and mated it to the FWD auto trans, with an electronic trans controller, and been LOVING the car SOO much ever since!

I was seriously contemplating the purchase of a 6 speed auto trans (U660E). Will it fit? I can confirm that the bell housing will mate to the 3SGTE, so yes, i reckon it's a way to go. Gotta try it....

But now.... I'm considering a new V6 option: If I purchased a 3.5L V6 engine and trans, and wiring harness, would THAT all fit into the Celica? I can get the whole lot for about $5K... Thoughts anyone?

Also, how do you guys change the spark plugs on your V6 Celicas? aren't they hard to get to?

Cheers,

Damian

You actually have a fully functional auto 3sgte? Please give us some details on this setup. How long has it been operational?

[3SGTE-auto]

Dear Palooke,

I thought people on this forum might be interested. None of my friends find it interesting...

Well what do you want to know? I used the standard auto transmission, with the stock engine mounts on that side. I didn't have a flexplate for the transmission, so I had to obtain one with 8 bolt holes from the wreckers. Couldn't obtain one with large bolt holes, so I ended up having to drill them to be larger to fit the large 3SGTE bolts. Transmission controller uses some inputs such as speed and RPM to determine what shift points. The item that controls the trans was purchased from Transmission Control Solutions . They didn't have any maps for the transmission, so I had to create my own maps.

Yes, works just like it should! brilliant really. very powerful, changes gears reasonably fast. Unfortunately the 3SGTE is SO powerful that I had to set shift points at < 5500 RPM, because if you upshift beyond that RPM, it ... well it doesn't cope very well and takes longer than 1 second. That's why I was investigating the U660E.

I posted on this site because I was seriously considering buying a whole 3.5L V6 and trans. But maybe not a wise investment....

Keep in touch.

[palooke]

Dear Palooke,

I thought people on this forum might be interested. None of my friends find it interesting...

Well what do you want to know? I used the standard auto transmission, with the stock engine mounts on that side. I didn't have a flexplate for the transmission, so I had to obtain one with 8 bolt holes from the wreckers. Couldn't obtain one with large bolt holes, so I ended up having to drill them to be larger to fit the large 3SGTE bolts. Transmission controller uses some inputs such as speed and RPM to determine what shift points. The item that controls the trans was purchased from Transmission Control Solutions . They didn't have any maps for the transmission, so I had to create my own maps.

Yes, works just like it should! brilliant really. very powerful, changes gears reasonably fast. Unfortunately the 3SGTE is SO powerful that I had to set shift points at < 5500 RPM, because if you upshift beyond that RPM, it ... well it doesn't cope very well and takes longer than 1 second. That's why I was investigating the U660E.

I posted on this site because I was seriously considering buying a whole 3.5L V6 and trans. But maybe not a wise investment....

Keep in touch.

Truly impressive that you have it functional and the transmission hasn't died. The only other person who has had it work for a little while is Wannaee GT4, and his auto transmission died. If your is working and stable for so long, you should start a thread on mounting the 3sgte to an A140E, I myself would be interested, so would many others here.

[3SGTE-auto]

Dear Palooke,

Yes, I could start a thread on mounting the 3S-GTE to an A140E, but would there be much interest?

You are quite right, my transmission is an A140E. I actually utilised an A140E from a 2001 camry, and thus got a slightly larger differential! That's my little trick for the day.

Broken transmissions? tell me about it. I attempted to use the A140L (as this transmission doesn't require an electronic controller). Well don't bother. I swapped 3 of them in and out of my car one by one, as each one only lasted a month. Nope, I can't explain why the A140E works better than the L. Perhaps its because the throttle cable can be pulled all the way out constantly. Perhaps because it's electronic. or just perhaps I set my shift points at 5000RPM for Gear 1 - 2, and 5400 for both 2 - 3 and 3 - 4.

Well i swapped to the A140E in the start of 2005, and its now 2008, and i drive my car daily to work and stuff, so yes, it's been 3 years. I have to say that it's awesome to just touch the pedal and suddenly power forward... like as if the car is suddenly very light, like it weighs hardly anything. Really feels nice.

Anyway, I can't leave anything alone. I want to get a good look at this U660E bizzo.

Regards,

Damian

[BonzaiCelica]

is this not stickied?

[Smaay]

lots of mis information in this thread. I dont think it should be stickied. Im going to do another V6 swap really soon, as usual i will document everything and i think that thread should be the ultimate V6 sticky thread

[fatherof4]

lots of mis information in this thread. I dont think it should be stickied. Im going to do another V6 swap really soon, as usual i will document everything and i think that thread should be the ultimate V6 sticky thread

Please! I plan on doing a swap early next year and your 7afe build was a big help!

[kevin311]

I agree with Smaay. Just from what I've learned from Smaay and Kurt, and doing my own research, this thread has some misleading information. I'm looking to do this swap in the future for both the $$$ saved and parts readily available and easier to source (USDM=local=More logical to me). I'm looking forward to your next swap Smaay!

[Smaay]

i think im going to do it in parts.

Part I engine removal. this will be a sticky of its own and get referenced to

Part II V6 Install, this will start with setup, clutch requirements, wiring, ECU to use, SMOG requirements, etc.

Part III will be TBD

[CAcelica29]

i think im going to do it in parts.

Part I engine removal. this will be a sticky of its own and get referenced to

Part II V6 Install, this will start with setup, clutch requirements, wiring, ECU to use, SMOG requirements, etc.

Part III will be TBD

when is this happening Smaay? i

[njccmd2002]

Part 1 is done.....

[CAcelica29]

^^^im aware, just really want to know when abouts i can expect part 2 and part 3. as i am about 90% convinced for the V6 swap

[Smaay]

read my V6 thread for more info. Its going to be a while before I drop in the V6 since I just put a turbo on the 5S.

I still have more parts to acquire for the V6.

[ILoveMySilly97]

^^^im aware, just really want to know when abouts i can expect part 2 and part 3. as i am about 90% convinced for the V6 swap

Im following smaay mostly. Since he's from Cali like us and he's going go make it BARd.