Twin-charged 4AGZE (40+ pics!), Supercharged and Turbocharged Options

[Dr_Tweak]

First question you all are going to ask is, why is the turbo way over there? The turbo is so big that it literally would not fit between the radiator support and the engine. So I built an up-pipe to go from the manifold to the turbo.













This is a 3/4" turbo drain, which is huge, but I wanted to make 100% sure that there wasn't a draining problem.













The downpipe....





Inlet and outlet of the radiator modified...







This monster is a 3000cfm fan (not a typo).





This intercooler is the real thing... Garrett core, 3 1/2" thick....



This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Apr 21, 2007 - 10:30 PM

[devilsden97]

nvm....u answered it.

This post has been edited by devilsden97: Apr 21, 2007 - 10:16 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

More pics of the downpipe...













Mocking up the intercooler piping...













Fan installed...



Temporary exhaust setup



Intercooler piping finished (welding by AngryMike) and installed...









Mostly finished engine bay...



This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Apr 21, 2007 - 10:33 PM

[lagos]

maybe its time to invest in a sand blaster?

[Dr_Tweak]

Comments for pics added.

This is a '94 Corolla, AE101 4AGZE swap, twin-charged, running the stock supercharger on a Blitz pulley and a T3/T4 50 trim turbo. We've got a few final tweaks that need to be made to get it on the road, which should be next week if everything we need shows up.

maybe its time to invest in a sand blaster?

The owner has some ideas for blinging up the engine bay, my job was simply to make the car go fast.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Apr 21, 2007 - 10:36 PM

[95st-celica]

my eyes hurt from all the pics......lol....looks good though...your gonna need to call a plumber when one of them things lets loose though..haha you think ya got enough pipes?...nice job though

[Dr_Tweak]

You'll note that p/s and a/c have been retained

This is what the engine bay looked like around this time last year.





-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Apr 21, 2007 - 10:52 PM

[bccentaur3]

Don't forget to post up some numbers Doc. I wonder what the final results would be like on a twin-charged motor. I have always wondered if it was even possible to turbo a supercharged motor, again anythings possible. I honestly thought the motor won't be able to handle the excess boost.

[lagos]

The owner has some ideas for blinging up the engine bay, my job was simply to make the car go fast.

dont take this the wrong way, but with the amount of money people are spending here, i think they deserve a cleaner looking engine bay. cleaning or painting the valve cover would make a world of difference in that car.

[Dr_Tweak]

The owner has some ideas for blinging up the engine bay, my job was simply to make the car go fast.

dont take this the wrong way, but with the amount of money people are spending here, i think they deserve a cleaner looking engine bay. cleaning or painting the valve cover would make a world of difference in that car.

How much money did this person spend?

[CelicaGT04]

dang those pipes are CONFUSING!!!!

I got dizzy looking at them.

[phonex98]

The owner has some ideas for blinging up the engine bay, my job was simply to make the car go fast.

dont take this the wrong way, but with the amount of money people are spending here, i think they deserve a cleaner looking engine bay. cleaning or painting the valve cover would make a world of difference in that car.

and was he paid to clean ? Noo... he was paid to turbo... Do you pay to a waitress and expect her to wipe your a** too ?

[Valo666]

all im sayin is Werd. That thing is nuts. Any plans for doing a twin charged celica??

[Hanyo]

dont take this the wrong way, but with the amount of money people are spending here, i think they deserve a cleaner looking engine bay. cleaning or painting the valve cover would make a world of difference in that car.

I think Dr.tweak is doing a great job. He is not wasting time on the unnessary stuff. This way he can cut cost and give the owner the most bang for the buck. If it was up to me, i would want to swap in the engine with no maintains done (seals/fluid changes). That way I can do it myself and feel like I actually did something to help my car. I mean, I'm sure if the owner wanted it, he would have paid/asked tweak to do it for him.

back on topic. WOW at first, i was like. that is alot of IC pipes. then i remember this is a dual charged beast LOL.

whats up with the hacked up radiator support?

[presure2]

hehe tweek, looks like that thing would be a fun ride...
who cares if its clean or not, if its FAST, it dont matter

[Dr_Tweak]

all im sayin is Werd. That thing is nuts. Any plans for doing a twin charged celica??

I'd be happy to do one, but there aren't many people out there with a 4AGZE swap (maybe, three, including one that I did?), and not many people want to take their engine this far. Dickster is planning on bringing his back down to me to do a pulley, cams, piggyback, and tune, that will be interesting.

dont take this the wrong way, but with the amount of money people are spending here, i think they deserve a cleaner looking engine bay. cleaning or painting the valve cover would make a world of difference in that car.

I think Dr.tweak is doing a great job. He is not wasting time on the unnessary stuff. This way he can cut cost and give the owner the most bang for the buck. If it was up to me, i would want to swap in the engine with no maintains done (seals/fluid changes). That way I can do it myself and feel like I actually did something to help my car. I mean, I'm sure if the owner wanted it, he would have paid/asked tweak to do it for him.

back on topic. WOW at first, i was like. that is alot of IC pipes. then i remember this is a dual charged beast LOL.

whats up with the hacked up radiator support?

Thanks for the comments The intercooler piping was pretty interesting, and I wasn't sure at first how to go about setting them up, but it turned out extremely well. I've got some plans for the radiator support, the car is, in reality, far from finished, but I wanted to show what we've been up to with it.

hehe tweek, looks like that thing would be a fun ride...
who cares if its clean or not, if its FAST, it dont matter

Yeah actually, I forgot to mention, it's running the E58 with LSD, so it should get really good traction too. I'm looking forward to running it on the dyno, but I'm not sure if that will be sooner or later, since the short block needs to be replaced or rebuilt (bad compression numbers).

-Doc

[NuclearHappineS]

amazing work doc

1 comment, can you cage that fan, i'm afraid to even touch my screen

What kind of EMS is hte car running ?

[Dr_Tweak]

amazing work doc

1 comment, can you cage that fan, i'm afraid to even touch my screen

What kind of EMS is hte car running ?

It's definetely on my mind, I already almost chopped a finger off a couple of times!

Currently running the stock 4AGZE ECU with an SMT6 piggyback. Once everything else is squared away, we're going to drop in some 550cc injectors and dyno-tune it, that setup should work quite well into the 20 psi range.

-Doc

[Slick]

Awesome job, Doc! BTW, since you have a filter underneath, would a bypass (or whatever its called) be needed to avoid hydro-lock? I couldn't see it in the pic of the top view (the pipes confused me! )

[Dr_Tweak]

I was going to run one at the turbo, but the filter is over 10" off the ground, and I don't suspect that this guy is going to be driving through more than a foot of water anytime soon.... so we'll see.

-Doc

[Batman722]

nice

but, isn't that blue rubber oil return line a bit too close to that DP ? IMO that looks like a big problem waiting to happen...hope he doesn't go over too many bumps.

[CelicaZR]

Awesome work Doc and AngryMike

[Dr_Tweak]

nice

but, isn't that blue rubber oil return line a bit too close to that DP ? IMO that looks like a big problem waiting to happen...hope he doesn't go over too many bumps.

No not at all, it's a few inches away... and there is zero play in the line, it's a monster hydralic line that's good to like, 600psi and 1000 degrees or something crazy like that...

-Doc

[angrymike]

this was all tweaks mad science. i did a little aluminum welding and thats it.

the car turned out pretty sweet.

as far as hydrolocking goes, you would have to fill all of the intercooler pipes, turbo, intercooler, supercharger and intake manifold before there would be a problem.

i seriously hope somone would shut the car down if they were in water that deep.

i hydrolocked my first car when i was 16. only flash flood in madison wisconsin for 20 years at least. figures.

i can't wait to see the numbers myself. should be pretty fun.

[normality78]

So you're using supercharged to push the turbo?

[Hanyo]

So you're using supercharged to push the turbo?

ummm that is generally not how superchargers work..

I think the reason for dual charging the motor is to be able to run a larger turbo without the penalty of a large turbo lag. Because the supercharger will be creating power/boost while the turbo spools up.

[nbg401]

I know this is a very, very old topic. I haven't been on here since I totaled my '94 celica in July of '07, i miss that car. I know some guys who would like to twin-charge their cars.

My question is Dr. Tweak do you have a diagram of how you set this system up? or could you explain how you ran the piping? how well did it work?

I've always admired you work. One of the best I have ever seen. If you could help I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Nick

[pitcelica]

the real big thing would be a dual intercooler, twin charged engine. It would be that way :

air filter --- turbo --- intecooler 1 --- supercharger --- intercooler 2 --- intake manifold

I know some 2 stage industrial compressor are doing it, why not try it into an engine! Would be very nice!

Any way, how did this history end?

Sam

[Culpable04]

the real big thing would be a dual intercooler, twin charged engine. It would be that way :

air filter --- turbo --- intecooler 1 --- supercharger --- intercooler 2 --- intake manifold

I know some 2 stage industrial compressor are doing it, why not try it into an engine! Would be very nice!

Any way, how did this history end?

Sam

to have a good icooling effect at least one of the intercooler have to be water to air, since there won't be enough room for 2 decent size intercoolers on the front of the car and also cool the coolant at the same time. but this is good idea, I'm sure a good plumber can figure this out quick.

the good question here is if they have come up with a reliable way of disengaging the mangetic cluthc on the supercharger ( does it have one ? ) so it doesn't take power away from the engine when the turbo is pushing.

I now HKS had something like this back in the day but never worked as expect it.

[delusionz]

the old 80's supercharged mr2 cars had the 4a-gze with this supercharger clutch, i think also the gt-z levin & trueno also had it since a friend of mine that had a gt-z complained about the blower disengaging or some ****.

i really want to see comparisons of 3 dyno sheets (not just max power but the torque curve i want to check) with the standard 4a-gze, then the 4a-gze with front mount and finally the 4a-gtze/4a-gzte

[GMan]

Incredible work.
I had to scratch my head a few minutes to follow the piping.

Look forward to some numbers, if the owner eve wants to post them.

Regards;
--------------------------

[Dr_Tweak]

I know this is a very, very old topic. I haven't been on here since I totaled my '94 celica in July of '07, i miss that car. I know some guys who would like to twin-charge their cars.

My question is Dr. Tweak do you have a diagram of how you set this system up? or could you explain how you ran the piping? how well did it work?

I've always admired you work. One of the best I have ever seen. If you could help I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Nick

Hi Nick, and thanks to all of you for the kind comments.

Honestly I wasn't real happy with the end result of this system. A lot of it had to do with the fact that I did it for a few hundred bucks for a friend with a VERY limited budget. The end result was that not enough time or money was spent in some important places (fuel management specifically) and that caused some problems (he blew the engine). He replaced the long block and ran it again with no other changes and unfortunately that engine starting having problems as well. I had him bring the car back to me for some diagnosis and to change the fuel management to an AEM F/IC and do some better tuning. After a compression test I found that one of the cylinders was bad so we stopped there. He ended up bringing the car to another friend to have the whole system redone and the engine rebuilt. He felt that the system that I built on the engine was faulty and that I owed him a new engine. Long story short I bought a new engine for him. Unfortunately there's a lot of resentment on both sides and the whole ordeal all but put an end to the friendship.

The moral of the story is:

1. When it comes to your job, don't do favors for friends. You don't get paid for your work, your friend doesn't get the service he deserves, and the friendship may be damaged irreparably.
2. When it comes to doing unusual, out-of-the box builds, make sure you have enough money, don't cut corners, and be prepared for setbacks.

As far as the subject of twin-charging, I think that it could still be done effectively but some things need to be changed to make better use of both the supercharger and the turbo. Also I would have used a larger turbo and found a way of combining the charged pipes instead of feeding one to the other. The bottom line is that the expense probably is higher than the benefit that you get and money would be better spent on a straight turbo build, unless you really want to do something unusual.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jun 22, 2009 - 10:23 AM

[2bcelica]

that sucks Tweak. U do good work ur friend started out cheap so he got what he paid for.

[Fastbird]

Your friend must not be too bright, adding a power adder to an already FI'd motor without proper tuning capabilities? What did he expect the outcome would be?

[GriffGirl]

That's a real shame that it ruined your friendship. It's too bad more people aren't able to distinguish the difference between business and friendship. If he'd been a *true* friend, he would've respected you enough to pay you for your services. You're not in the business for the feel-good of it, ultimately, you have to make a living. He took advantage of you. And in the process, it sounds like it cost him a hell of a lot more money anyway than he would've spent had he just shown more respect and been mature enough to separate business from friendship.

Rest assured that one day when I show up on your doorstep with a 6th gen, I'll be able to separate the two!

That said, so who's gonna be first on here to show up at Doc's doorstep with twin chargers gleaming in their eyes!? Sounds like a really fun and challenging project!

[nbg401]

Thanks Doc.

Sorry to hear about all that happened. That guy was not a "True" Friend at all. I wish everything would have all turned out ok. I'm really sorry, man.

I wish I had a 6th gen again, I wanted mine converted into a GT-4 so bad. I went to a show this weekend and a guy had a RX-7 converted to a JDM RX-7, I almost cried thinkin "I wish I could have converted my 6th gen Celica."

[Dr_Tweak]

Thanks guys

-Doc

[cheela]

His loss, i'd let you build my engine anyday!