3s-gte swap questions, Researched , now i have a bunch of questions Options

[NaderG]

I want to do a 3s-gte swap , i dont have much experience but i am a fast learner ... reearch is really helpful but i still need some questions answered ... also i am not swaping my engine any time soon , i just want to know if i can do it or not so i can try and plan for something else !! me and my friends will do it , they ahe tools , but they work with hondas
here is what i still havent figured out :

1- my car is auto and will be swaped to manual , with or before the 3s comes in .... the axles go from the auto to manual tranny and will bolt right on ( or locks in) ...correct ??? also i want the easiest setup to do so i will be using the regular tranny of the Gt , i know some ppl are using it with no trouble whats the code for that thing , i am still confused on it , its s54 ( correct me if i am wrong) and it will bolt right on the 3s-gte with a difference in the flywheel or disc( not a problem now ).... of course i need to buy the correct driver's side engine mount for the Vert with manual trans

2- this is my only car , should is still do it ? how fast can it be done knowing that the wirring will have to be sent away ? if wirring problem is done , can it be done in like a weekend or week ? i use my car alot

3- if is use a St205 front clip , will my a/c work without modifcation to the wirring ? what if i use a st-185 , will the wirring be set when i have it done by pros ?? this concerns me because the how-to for a/c have no pics and i dont understand whats going on ! and i live in So-Cal where it reasches 100+ in the summer !!

4- i also need some tips on forming a list for the parts i need ( beside the clip / tranny ) and where to get them : exhaust ?? fuel pump ? other stuff

5- i have to make it street legal , so how do i getall the emission control systems working to meet california laws ? is it possible ?

6- Wires scare the crap out of me ! so is it possible for the person who will do the wirring harness conversion also prep the wirring for the auto-> manual swap ? is that possible

i am a beginner with this stuff , i am just a college student studying biology ! so i have very weak background and i really hope that the 6gc ppl would help make this swap a reality ! so ai need all the help i can get and there is no better place than here ! so thanks everybody , i will add questions on here and when i do the swap i will put pics and stuff !!

This post has been edited by NaderG: Jun 6, 2007 - 1:53 PM

[cheeco]

1 auto axles should work. i have auto axles from a 94GT in a 96 s54. for the clutch setup, you need 3sgte flywheel and pressure plate and a GT clutch, or a hybrid clutch kit made by spec or clutchmasters. if you go the hybrid route id recommend getting an OEM throw out bearing, seems alot beefier. you shouldent need a driver side mount, the one that came with my clip worked fine. i ended up buying an s54 mount only to find out that the A/T, M/T, and st205 mounts all bolt up.

2 It probably not a good idea to swap if you dont have alternate transportation. anything could delay the swap, like waiting for parts, or if you have any post swap problems.

If you get an st205 only about 9-10 wires need to be spliced in, that is, if you cut a hole in the firewall to run the harness. if you have SRS you will need to run an additional wire from the cabin to the engine room fuse block. if you dont cut a hole in the firewall, more complicated wiring is involed and it should probably be sent out.

3 my a/c worked with no problems post swap. no wiring changes were necessary. keep in mind i have a 94, would be best to check the wiring diagrams to be sure for your car.

4 for an st205. custom exhaust 2.5in or 3in depending on HP goals, walbro fuel pump, all fluids, any seals/gaskets you need if you want to do a reseal. water and oil pumps if you want (i didnt). fuel, oil, air filters. plan on new FR & RR motor mounts if the clip and yours are crappy. manual swap parts, tranny, shift cables, master/slave cylinders, clutch lines and hose, clutch pedal and brake pedal, shift boot and bezel, shifter (if not with clip), shift knob. boost guage would be nice. plugs, cap, rotor, wires (OEM). all i can think of atm.

5 you cant reasonably make it street legal, no EGR, bottom line.

6 if you do the swap, there is no need to wire anything for the conversion since the ECU you get will be for a M/T

This post has been edited by cheeco: Jun 6, 2007 - 6:56 PM

[NaderG]

5 you cant reasonably make it street legal, no EGR, bottom line.

is EGR not present because the car is turbo'ed or it is not present because the engine is swaped ... my point is that if i get a st185 clip , which is a car that was in the US , i can register the new engine through the DMV and that way my car would be treated like a st185 ( in terms of emissions ) .... so why ahain is it not possible ? this is one of the very main important things ! my car has to be legal ...

This post has been edited by NaderG: Jun 6, 2007 - 9:05 PM

[Gary]

5 you cant reasonably make it street legal, no EGR, bottom line.

is EGR not present because the car is turbo'ed or it is not present because the engine is swaped ... my point is that if i get a st185 clip , which is a car that was in the US , i can register the new engine through the DMV and that way my car would be treated like a st185 ( in terms of emissions ) .... so why ahain is it not possible ? this is one of the very main important things ! my car has to be legal ...

JDM 3sgte doesn't come with EGR.
And where will you get a USDM ST185 front clip?

[NaderG]

5 you cant reasonably make it street legal, no EGR, bottom line.

is EGR not present because the car is turbo'ed or it is not present because the engine is swaped ... my point is that if i get a st185 clip , which is a car that was in the US , i can register the new engine through the DMV and that way my car would be treated like a st185 ( in terms of emissions ) .... so why ahain is it not possible ? this is one of the very main important things ! my car has to be legal ...

JDM 3sgte doesn't come with EGR.
And where will you get a USDM ST185 front clip?

ops , i guess i overlooked that little detail .... well is there any way this swap can be legal !!?? help me out here !!!

[phattyduck]

5 you cant reasonably make it street legal, no EGR, bottom line.

is EGR not present because the car is turbo'ed or it is not present because the engine is swaped ... my point is that if i get a st185 clip , which is a car that was in the US , i can register the new engine through the DMV and that way my car would be treated like a st185 ( in terms of emissions ) .... so why ahain is it not possible ? this is one of the very main important things ! my car has to be legal ...

JDM 3sgte doesn't come with EGR.
And where will you get a USDM ST185 front clip?

ops , i guess i overlooked that little detail .... well is there any way this swap can be legal !!?? help me out here !!!

No, it will not be legal no matter what you do. There has never been a US-legal '97+ model year 3s-gte. The motor has to be US/CARB legal, from the same model year or newer than your car and have ALL smog related equipment in place.

If you want 200+hp and smog legal, you will have to go with a '97+ Camry/Avalon/ES300 V6 with the TRD supercharger. (this swap minus the supercharger has been done legally in an ST184)

You gotta pay to play.

-Charlie

[NaderG]

oh ... thas great ! why didnt this show up in a stickie or in an info post !! you had me planing there and everything !! i cant have a car that is not legal , because of my parents and the fact that it is illegal !! .... i guess i will just go with a maunal swap stop there ...

[6strngs]

The engine has to be the same year or newer in order to be legal. of course, you live in so-cal, just go to any of the tuner shops and ask around and I'm sure you can find a smog station where you can pay the guy off to get a pass.

[NaderG]

ya , thas easy , my problem is my parents ... and it is not the kind of problem that will go away any time soon ( due to cultural differences ) .... is there anything i can do in order to have arround 200HP LEGALLY !!!

[phattyduck]

oh ... thas great ! why didnt this show up in a stickie or in an info post !! you had me planing there and everything !! i cant have a car that is not legal , because of my parents and the fact that it is illegal !! .... i guess i will just go with a maunal swap stop there ...

Its only illegal if you get caught! j/k It is all up to you.

Besides, I wouldn't do a motor swap if it was my only car. I did all the work myself (slowly!) in my garage, and my car was down for 9 months. Obviously it can be done much faster than that (especially when you don't have to custom make a bunch of things), but you have to plan for the worst.

-Charlie

[NaderG]

well i guess that does make sense ... well i guess no more swap plans for me , better save up for a stock turbo car ... nothing matches the beauty of a 6gc though

[6strngs]

ya , thas easy , my problem is my parents ... and it is not the kind of problem that will go away any time soon ( due to cultural differences ) .... is there anything i can do in order to have arround 200HP LEGALLY !!!

well, what I'm doing is a 5sfe turbo and planning for about 200 whp. it's sorta street legal in that you still have all your smog equipment and it's the stock engine... though I doubt it would pass smog. what I'm going to do is keep all my stock parts and then every two years I'll switch back for a smog check and then throw it all back on again afterwards.

[NaderG]

well , that is an option but the 5sfe is crappy already , its barely a DOHC ... i also heard that lots of things need to be done ... internal need to be changed and its not garenteed to be reliable .. i just heard alot of bad things about turboing the 5sfe.... is there any other possible way ?? or should i just lose hope and forget it !!

This post has been edited by NaderG: Jun 7, 2007 - 1:47 AM

[6strngs]

well , that is an option but the 5sfe is crappy already , its barely a DOHC ... i also heard that lots of things need to be done ... internal need to be changed and its not garenteed to be reliable .. i just heard alot of bad things about turboing the 5sfe.... is there any other possible way ?? or should i just lose hope and forget it !!

well no, there is no guarentee of reliability. quite a few things do need to be done but you don't need to change out the internals. turbo-ing it makes the crappy 5sfe into a pretty decent engine! in the end, it'll cost about the same as a front clip. and it could be all done in a few days rather than a few weeks. something to think about.

[NaderG]

i guess i will just look into it then ... tell me more about the legality of turboing so i caqn have enough info to convince my dad ( not easy)

[6strngs]

i guess i will just look into it then ... tell me more about the legality of turboing so i caqn have enough info to convince my dad ( not easy)

well, I'm not too sure. I don't know the law too well, but it's more legal than a 3sgte swap. and hey, if a cop ever pulled you over and asked you to pop the hood you could just point to the turbo where it says "TOYOTA CT-26" and tell him it's factory turbo'ed! he might buy it! lol

[NaderG]

well , if it is illegal bothways , i will just go with the 3s-gte.. it also says toyota !! so if the cop isnt familiar with the car , he will buy it ... i can just also pay off a smog person or soemthing , my problem is that this is my only car so that is the only thing that might stop me... also just wondering , have any of you guys with turbos or 3s-gte swaps have any trouble with the law ??

[Supersprynt]

Cops generally won't ask you to pop your hood to inspect your engine.

The problem your going to have is passing emissions not only because you have an OBDII car, your in CA.

[6strngs]

Cops generally won't ask you to pop your hood to inspect your engine.

The problem your going to have is passing emissions not only because you have an OBDII car, your in CA.

they will in CA.

at any import car show I've been to, cops were sitting right outside pulling random cars over and asking them to pop their hoods for suspicion of illegal parts. but it was funny, I was walking past as this STOCK (or close to it) SRT4 got pulled over, the cop asked him to pop the hood, and he did so, then the cop shined the flashlight on it and said "Where's the exhaust?"

[MaskedMan]

Yeah cops here will generally ask you to pop your hood, they can even ticket you for aftermarket exhuast if they want. If they see guages in your car, they will most likely ask to see under your hood, and with all the intercooler piping on the 5sfte, it's kind of obvious it's not stock. The 3sgte swap be legal though, if your Celica was from 94-95. If you swapped in a 2nd gen 3sgte from an 95 USDM SW20. Ok yeah, so those cars are rare, very rare, but technically, it should be legal.

[NaderG]

Yeah cops here will generally ask you to pop your hood, they can even ticket you for aftermarket exhuast if they want. If they see guages in your car, they will most likely ask to see under your hood, and with all the intercooler piping on the 5sfte, it's kind of obvious it's not stock. The 3sgte swap be legal though, if your Celica was from 94-95. If you swapped in a 2nd gen 3sgte from an 95 USDM SW20. Ok yeah, so those cars are rare, very rare, but technically, it should be legal.

well my car is a 97 so this plan wont work ... i guess i just start saving for subaru ...

[eggman40]

legality didnt stop me! But yea man its a risk. Some cops wont care others wont. It really depends on luck. Ive been pulled over before and wasnt hassled, so it really depends on your luck.

[KaJuN]

pardon my ignorance, as i'm not from the states. But why is it legal to swap in a 3sgte for 94-95, and not 97+? Just because 97 and up were obd2?

[Culpable04]

pardon my ignorance, as i'm not from the states. But why is it legal to swap in a 3sgte for 94-95, and not 97+? Just because 97 and up were obd2?

1- the 3sgte was available in US on 94-95 so the engine will match the year or be newer which is what the law require on an engien swap

2- the engine was tested for emissions in US

you're not suppose to swap and oldr engine in your car, and the engine has to have all the emssion control ssytems in place to be legal, so on a 96+ car you have

1- older engine ( USDM )
2-different emission system ( OBD1 ( 95 and lower ) OBD2 ( 96+ )

[NaderG]

it seems like it will never be legal ... i guess i have some options , go for illegal , or buy a sportier car ...i love the look of our cars and i would like to keep it , so i guess i will just drive it as is for a while , buy a second car , swap my vert , try to find a way to make my gauges coverable or somehow stealthed , keep my exhaust quiet and find a person to pass me the smog test , also not go to car shows lol ... sounds like a plan but the problem is that this is a bit too much lol !! why do the laws have to be soo friggen stupid ! i should be able to swap an older engine in my car !!

[Supersprynt]

Doggy makes gauge pods that fit over the center console, much more concealed than A-pillar.

[NaderG]

the cops can still see them , i am thinking of small gauges that fit under the head unit , or small ones and put them in some sort of slide close box ... kinda crazy but oh well ...

[NaderG]

one final question before i just give up the whole swap plan : is there any way to swap a 190+ hp engine into my 97 Vert and not have trouble making it legal ?? and i am talking about something that will bolt right on so no V6s or anything , but plz , anybody that knows a way, tell me !!

[phattyduck]

one final question before i just give up the whole swap plan : is there any way to swap a 190+ hp engine into my 97 Vert and not have trouble making it legal ?? and i am talking about something that will bolt right on so no V6s or anything , but plz , anybody that knows a way, tell me !!

The V6 only takes one custom mount. It's your only legal way.

-Charlie