Carbon Fiber weight reductions, is it worth it? Options

[dutchboy]

How much do each of the OEM style CF hood and hatch from Seibon / Vis shave from the weight of the car?

Are hood pins required for the hoods(has OEM style hood latch).

Be sure not to count the glass in weight measurements.


Just wondering if it is worth the cost of the parts.

Thanks!

[yarik83]

Ill try to be consise.

Is fiberglass and carbon fiber lighter than metal? Yes it is. My 7 year old sister can lift my carbon fiber hood all by herself. For comparison the stock hood weighs as much as my sister. By taking off hood, hatch, fenders, bumpers etc you will save weight. how much I can not tell but basically you should be shedding 95 percent of weight give or take 10 percent. I am not a weight to power ratio guru but from what I heard you free up 15 hp for every 100 lbs shaved off or something like that. No that does not make you gain hp what it does do is quicker acceleration etc etc.

Do you need hood pins? No. VIS hood comes with the latch. Now that does not mean that you can slamm the hood.. you need to handle it with care but it will lock.

[CelicaST_CALI]

yea i think the hood is probly the best carbon fibe rthing to replace if u want a lighter car,also and truck/hatch.

[BloodyStupidDave...]

yea i think the hood is probly the best carbon fiber thing to replace if u want a lighter car,also and truck/hatch.

I'd go for the trunk/hatch. Overall there is much more metal there than the hood/bonnet. Are our bonnets steel or aluminium? I'd say that the GT bonnet weighs about the same as the GT4 bonnet. Now I know the GT4 is aluminium so if the GT is steel I'm surprised there isn't more of a difference.

Alloy or steel wheels weight quite a bit, too. Perhaps some lightweight rims? What about the fuel tank - is that plastic or metal?

[vsideboy]

OR you could just stop giving any fat mates a lift and free up a load of HP. lol.

[playr158]

a) "free up 15hp per 100lbs shaved"
technically you don't free up hp...you have the same amount of HP....BUT your power:weight ratio does get better...IE 1hp:27lbs may go to 1hp:23lbs

b) you'll probably save more weight by getting a HOOD (this is just my hypothesis) because a good bulk of the hatch weight is in the GLASS.

c) hood & hatch = good when both are CF

d) look @ stuff on the interior as well, there are LOTS of heavy pieces in there

[vsideboy]

Aye, strip out all the seats, interior panels and carpets and you'll probably save a fair amount of weight.

[dutchboy]

a) "free up 15hp per 100lbs shaved"
technically you don't free up hp...you have the same amount of HP....BUT your power:weight ratio does get better...IE 1hp:27lbs may go to 1hp:23lbs

b) you'll probably save more weight by getting a HOOD (this is just my hypothesis) because a good bulk of the hatch weight is in the GLASS.

c) hood & hatch = good when both are CF

d) look @ stuff on the interior as well, there are LOTS of heavy pieces in there

Thanks for the info!

How much does each seat weigh(standard, cloth)?

When it cools down tonight I'm going to remove all the seats. I'm 6'3" so I should still be able to see over the dash.

Going on a diet is the best advice. I could stand to lose about 30-40 lbs.

[playr158]

lol

ltw racing seats (certified and approved of course)
are a good investment if your serious about weight reduction
seats are probably close to 30-40 lbs per piece i think (est)
rear seat bottom(hatchback) is ~10lbs
backs are a few founds as well
speakers = heavy
spare tire/jack = heavy
sunroof = 25lbs (est)

diet = always good idea haha

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 5, 2007 - 12:39 PM

[goferris]

diet = always good idea haha

lol!!!
You=heavy

honestly unless you are turning your car into a race car for the track you really don't have to worry. a lot of people get the carbon fiber for the look not because it is lighter. it's for their bragging rights.

[dutchboy]

diet = always good idea haha

a lot of people get the carbon fiber for the look not because it is lighter. it's for their bragging rights.

If I do get CF I will be painting over it eventually, unless I suddenly fall in love with the look (not likely)

This post has been edited by dutchboy: Aug 27, 2011 - 7:13 PM

[Kadett]

diet = always good idea haha

Lost 35 Pounds, Another 10 to go

Also, Dont drive with a full tank of gass, half would suffice = 60lbs weightreduction.

Already removed spare tyre+jack, but installed a subwoofer and Amp.
Replace steel bonnet with Alu GT4 hood, but installed a heavier engine

[playr158]

but installed a heavier engine

but increased power:weight

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 5, 2007 - 1:09 PM

[laff09]

Installing Lexan "glass" in the rear hatch would free up a good amount of weight, idk how cost efficient it would be though

[playr158]

Installing Lexan "glass" in the rear hatch would free up a good amount of weight, idk how cost efficient it would be though

lexan scratches up very easily

[dutchboy]

Installing Lexan "glass" in the rear hatch would free up a good amount of weight, idk how cost efficient it would be though

lexan scratches up very easily

There is a lexan treatment called Marguard / Margard that is supposed to improve the durability/reduce scratching.

Have thought about this in the past but I doubt it is worth it for a street car, may scratch up quickly, have to pay more for smoked lexan, and would lose rear window defroster.

This post has been edited by dutchboy: Aug 27, 2011 - 7:06 PM

[dutchboy]

I was able to pick up a Seibon OEM style CF Hood for pretty cheap. It has some scratches and scuffs in the clear coat but I'm sure they can be filled in(especially if I paint it).

THe crappy thing is, it's not all that much lighter than the stock hood(Stock=36.5lbs, CF=23.5 on bathroom scale). Just don't think it is worth it for the price, at least for a daily driver(my goal is to improve city MPG).

The fitment is pretty poor as well, the curve near the windshield ends don't match very well, and the hood is a centimeter narraower than stock, so there is a fair sized gap on one side(made the passenger side more flush to impress my girl

[OOBE]

When I replaced my stock hood with the GT-4 one, it was so freaking light. You can feel the difference, haha.

[playr158]

13lbs is a nice little weight savings
not sure what the GT4 hood weights?

but sucks that the hood has poor fitment, maybe due to abuse from previous owner? I know when i checked out droptopgt's CF oem style hood (VIS i'm pretty sure) fitment was pretty good.

[Sinyk]

You are planning all this weight reduction to save on gas? I thought it was to make a race car

[vsideboy]

haha dude how much petrol do you actually get through?

my gt4 does about 27mpg and a gallon in the uk costs about £4.63

City MPG won't be affected at all no matter how much weight you save if all your doing is sitting in traffic jams all the time and will only improve a little if doing 20/30 all the time. Only way you'll save petrol by reducing weight is when accelerating I reckon anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[playr158]

any weight savings is going to save you "some" amount of gas..not just on accel but through out all driving conditions....though it takes more HP to move the car...it still takes less but some hp to keep it moving..less weight at a constant cruise = less need hp to keep the car moving = less fuel

though by getting a hood he's not going to see anything besides ".4" mpg gain (example not real) its a good start

[vsideboy]

yeah i realise this mate, what I meant was that if his car weighs 1 ton or 20 tons, if he's stationary in traffic with the engine running its gonna be using exactly the same amount of gas. then like you say its gonna be an unnoticable amount of savings versus the cost of carbon fibre panels.

[playr158]

sitting time is negate able since cars use very little fuel sitting at rest and
eventually traffic has to go somewhere

(though i see your point)

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 25, 2007 - 12:11 PM

[x_itchy_b_x]

i filled almost a whole 5gal bucket with sound deadening from under the carpets, both front and rear. its noticeably louder. and the car vibrates a bit.. ask Manny about that. i think it makes it that much sweeter.

[playr158]

itchy you scrapped on that OEM stuff stuck to the floors?

i hated that crap! weighed a decent lb too

[Rockford]

diet = always good idea haha

I need to loose.... 44lbs

[BloodyStupidDave...]

Back from the dead. I had an opportunity to weigh the various hoods today. Here are my findings:


Stock ST/GT steel hood, without fiberglass lining: 39lbs (17.7kg) approx.
Stock GT4 aluminium hood, with fiberglass lining: 25lbs (11.3kg) approx.
C-One carbon fiber GT4 style hood: 13 lbs (5.9kg) approx.

[thespacepanda]

Sweet. Is that under-carpet stuff hard to get out? More importantly, am I gonna tear up the carpet/tear out my hair trying to get it out?

[playr158]

stuff under the carpet (oem noise crap that is stuck to the floor) is a pain in the ass...i used an air chisel and some time.

try weighting the doors now them suckers are heavy.
the sunroof = ~40lbs

[dagreat1]

i'm pretty sure the gain from taking out the stuff under the carpet is minimal at best

[blaque_6thGen]

You are planning all this weight reduction to save on gas? I thought it was to make a race car

sorry
but weight reduction doesn't really make a race car
lol!

didn't mean to offend you, man
it was just worded funny
i laugh at the imports that i see driving around thinking that they have race cars because they have carbon fiber all over the place

This post has been edited by blaque_6thGen: Jan 15, 2008 - 3:35 AM

[playr158]

i'm pretty sure the gain from taking out the stuff under the carpet is minimal at best

there is actually about 10-15lbs of that crap throughout the car.
and for some of us, that little bit helps

[95st-celica]

i think that if your going for weight...and you want to take your car to an auto cross track for the day...just gut the interior...back seat and pass side seat is a LOT of weight right there that you would be getting rid of...also the spare tire, jack, stupid $hit likee that...no offense but a carbon fiber hood and hatch is not going to give you the results you want....maybe for peace of mind but thats about it....sure every little bit helps but when it comes to a difference of 5-10 pounds? come on now.....might as well drive with no hood

[playr158]

Back from the dead. I had an opportunity to weigh the various hoods today. Here are my findings:


Stock ST/GT steel hood, without fiberglass lining: 39lbs (17.7kg) approx.
Stock GT4 aluminium hood, with fiberglass lining: 25lbs (11.3kg) approx.
C-One carbon fiber GT4 style hood: 13 lbs (5.9kg) approx.

i think that if your going for weight...and you want to take your car to an auto cross track for the day...just gut the interior...back seat and pass side seat is a LOT of weight right there that you would be getting rid of...also the spare tire, jack, stupid $hit likee that...no offense but a carbon fiber hood and hatch is not going to give you the results you want....maybe for peace of mind but thats about it....sure every little bit helps but when it comes to a difference of 5-10 pounds? come on now.....might as well drive with no hood

requoted just incase you can't read/do math

39-13 = 26lbs

26lbs is a substantial amount of weight..
26lbs = spare tire+jack
26lbs = about 1 front seat
and thats just in a hood.

5-10lbs can be pretty important.
removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle.

For the average street driver here will it make a big difference, no not really. When it comes down to the logistics of it, YES it makes a nice difference.

This post has been edited by playr158: Jan 15, 2008 - 10:31 AM

[dabazied]

Add up some carbon fiber doors to shed out some weight lol.... not very cost efficent for a daily driver though

[playr158]

nobody makes them.........yet

[bccentaur3]

What do you mean Playr? Is there actually a company or someone working on the cf doors for our cars?

[95st-celica]

Back from the dead. I had an opportunity to weigh the various hoods today. Here are my findings:


Stock ST/GT steel hood, without fiberglass lining: 39lbs (17.7kg) approx.
Stock GT4 aluminium hood, with fiberglass lining: 25lbs (11.3kg) approx.
C-One carbon fiber GT4 style hood: 13 lbs (5.9kg) approx.

i think that if your going for weight...and you want to take your car to an auto cross track for the day...just gut the interior...back seat and pass side seat is a LOT of weight right there that you would be getting rid of...also the spare tire, jack, stupid $hit likee that...no offense but a carbon fiber hood and hatch is not going to give you the results you want....maybe for peace of mind but thats about it....sure every little bit helps but when it comes to a difference of 5-10 pounds? come on now.....might as well drive with no hood

requoted just incase you can't read/do math

39-13 = 26lbs

26lbs is a substantial amount of weight..
26lbs = spare tire+jack
26lbs = about 1 front seat
and thats just in a hood.

5-10lbs can be pretty important.
removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle.

For the average street driver here will it make a big difference, no not really. When it comes down to the logistics of it, YES it makes a nice difference.

since were so good at math would you be able to caculate for me how much time i would save by taking out my sun roof in the quarter mile?? because i know everone here when they run down the track the first thing they will do is remove there sun roof....even if you did take out the front and back seats, replaced the hood and hatch with carbon fiber ones and took out the spare tire and jack you would only be maybe a tenth or two faster? it's pointless...its all psychological...just caus you have a gutted interior you think your car is faster.....why dont you just turn your boost up a pound? that would make up for it and then some....now if there were more things you could do with out going extreamely overboard with the weight reduction...like doors, fenders, leightweight rims(which are aviable) then i would say yes it would be worth doing...but throwing a CF hood on and removing your sun roof isnt doing anything for ya...all together CF (doors, fenders, hood, hatch, leightweight rims, no door pannels, seats, rugs, stock sound dampening material, spare tire, jack, remove any subs and other acces $hit, and your "sunroof") now your talking about shaving weight/getting a better time

[playr158]

hahahah...you know there is more to racing than a 1/4 mile.

removing a sunroof is a dual purpose...let me requote that for you
"removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle."
its handling advantage.
lowering the center of gravity and cutting weight can cut LAP times down.
better handling & less mass = later braking points and faster corner speeds = faster laps.

please go to VIR/Summit hell even a drag strip and tell the real racers weight reduction is psycological

you have yet to make a valid arguement besides an unsupported claim of psychological factors. When you can techincally support and prove it come back and talk to me. I on the other hand can.

my weight savings > you

all the AC boxes came out, the sunroof came out (honeycomb/carbonfiber LTW plug replacement) not to mention many many other things

This post has been edited by playr158: Jan 15, 2008 - 1:02 PM

[95st-celica]

hahahah...you know there is more to racing than a 1/4 mile.

removing a sunroof is a dual purpose...let me requote that for you
"removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle."
its handling advantage.
lowering the center of gravity and cutting weight can cut LAP times down.
better handling & less mass = later braking points and faster corner speeds = faster laps.

please go to VIR/Summit hell even a drag strip and tell the real racers weight reduction is psycological

you have yet to make a valid arguement besides an unsupported claim of psychological factors. When you can techincally support and prove it come back and talk to me. I on the other hand can.

my weight savings > you

all the AC boxes came out, the sunroof came out (honeycomb/carbonfiber LTW plug replacement) not to mention many many other things

clearly i understand your argument and agree 100% with reducing weight=better times ESPICALLY on an auto cross track...but what im trying to say is how many people on this forum are going to completely gut there interior like you have??? not many...most are looking for a "quick and easy way out" such as replacing both the hood and hatch with CF ones....which is a great idea and again it does lower the center of gravity...im not arguing with you about that at all....what im saying is that by removing your sunroof and throwing a CF hood on your car is not going to drastically improve your times....yes it may cut lap times down a few tenths but all that for what? when you could do simple mods to your motor to get more out of it....

[playr158]

you can always do something else to get that time. weight reductions are normally pretty easy. Some states don't allow for motor changes, as well as motor modifications can move you out of a class you are competative at and into a class you have no chance. Not to mention more motor doesn't help with handling.

Hoods are more commonly done for aesthetics as well, and not necissarily function as 1% of this site actually races.

Celicas respond in my experience much much better to improvements in handling/weight than to power since the strong point of the celica is handling and not power. and a few tenths can mean the difference between winning and loosing.....I'd take that.

Its cars there is always an alternative to one modification over another. personal preferance is what makes the difference.

This post has been edited by playr158: Jan 15, 2008 - 1:27 PM

[dabazied]

Custom CF doors would be crazy high priced..... I'm sure we could get some people together to try to get a company to start making them, yet don't know if we'd have enough people willing to bust out the money for them.

[jason]

my car has cf doors, fenders, hood, trunk, roof, and rear 1/4 pannels

reduced vehicle weight by 370~ lbs

best mod to the car, seems like it has 100 more hp and handles amazing


-carbon fiber hood is a good idea to save weight, for the purpose of less fuel consumption... over a year if your fuel costs are $2000 for the year, you may save $10 soooo $300+ for the hood would take you like 30 years to actually "save"

-carbon fiber hatch, again a good idea for weight reducion, using lexon or any type of non rigid consistancy will expand & contract. rsx's usually put in cf hatch's and since windows are similar in size to a 6gc i presume you would have similar issues, the plastic n whatnot that gets used as a light weight window either expands n warps the hatch, or contracts and causes other issues.

stop n think before you flame for the first bit

[BonzaiCelica]

Weight Reduction Modifications

Stage 1 = 80 pounds savings
• AGM 17 lb Battery = 18 pounds less (OEM Battery Weighs 35 pounds for USA Market)
• 1st Generation Scion TC (2AZ-FE) Starter = 2 pounds lighter
• Fiberglass Hood with carbon overlay (VIS or Seibon) = 11 pounds less
• Rear Seats (Backing and Cushion) = 36 pounds
• Liftback Trunk Cover = 6 pounds
• Kakimoto R Cat Back Exhaust = 7 pounds less

Stage 2 = 68 pounds savings
• Adjustable Coilovers 28 Pounds less (Mcpherson)
• 3SGE Stainless Steel Header n' Bpipe for 3SGE (OEM weighs 32 lbs) = 12-14 pounds less
• Stainless Steel Test Pipe = 5 pounds less
• Rear window wiper/Motor and OEM Antenna = 4 pounds
• Big Brake Kit with 304x26mm Rotors (Ceika) = 17 pound less

Stage 3 = 240-245 pounds savings
• Floor Mats, Carpet n’ Lining and Firewall Lining with Sound Deadening = 20 pounds
• 6 Speaker Audio Sound System (Headunit, Amplifier, Speakers n Brackets) = 12 pounds
• Interior Panels from Driver Seat to Trunk = 18 pounds
• Door Panels = 12 pounds
• Spare Tire, Wooden Tire Cover, Trunk Carpet and Jack = 35 pounds
• Air Bag from Steering Wheel = 4 pounds
• Full Bucket Racing Seat = 10 pounds less over stock
• Full Carbon Fiber Hood = 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)

• Carbon Fiber Roof = 11 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• Fiberglass Trunk = 19 pound less or Carbon Fiber Trunk = 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• Rear Window (swap in for Lexan) = 17 pound less
• Headlights and fog lights replaced with headlight covers = 12 pounds
• Removing all A/C system components = 45 pounds

OVERALL WEIGHT SAVINGS = 388 POUNDS


Sunroof with motor and Headliner 33 pounds, Aluminum ST205 Hood: 14 pounds less

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 27, 2025 - 1:22 AM

[hatchy_gt-s]

hahahah...you know there is more to racing than a 1/4 mile.

removing a sunroof is a dual purpose...let me requote that for you
"removing upper weight (IE sunroof, hood, hatch) shifts the weight balance of the car to a LOWER point (thus giving lower center of gravity).
the more "upper" weight you can remove the better your car can handle."
its handling advantage.
lowering the center of gravity and cutting weight can cut LAP times down.
better handling & less mass = later braking points and faster corner speeds = faster laps.

please go to VIR/Summit hell even a drag strip and tell the real racers weight reduction is psycological

you have yet to make a valid arguement besides an unsupported claim of psychological factors. When you can techincally support and prove it come back and talk to me. I on the other hand can.

my weight savings > you

all the AC boxes came out, the sunroof came out (honeycomb/carbonfiber LTW plug replacement) not to mention many many other things

clearly i understand your argument and agree 100% with reducing weight=better times ESPICALLY on an auto cross track...but what im trying to say is how many people on this forum are going to completely gut there interior like you have??? not many...most are looking for a "quick and easy way out" such as replacing both the hood and hatch with CF ones....which is a great idea and again it does lower the center of gravity...im not arguing with you about that at all....what im saying is that by removing your sunroof and throwing a CF hood on your car is not going to drastically improve your times....yes it may cut lap times down a few tenths but all that for what? when you could do simple mods to your motor to get more out of it....

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it off an unlimited amount of money, I could either spend money on a part that will get me 5-10 hp or I could remove something (spare/jack, seats, carpet, int. trim) for free and have the same results. Now I do SOMEWHAT agree with you on the whole sunroof removal, yes it WILL decrease your central weight for better handling, BUT for someone who doesn't know how to weld it would be hard to cover up the giant hole that is in the roof, so there you would be better off buying a mod.

Also in racing (track, autoX) more power is not always better, take a corvette for example it has loads of HP and TQ but is quite hard to use all of it around a corner, but if you take an elise or exige it has the 1zz/2zz from a 7th Gen. celica which isn't that powerful but hell if those things cant use all of there power around a corner.

[jimmykay]

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it off an unlimited amount of money, I could either spend money on a part that will get me 5-10 hp or I could remove something (spare/jack, seats, carpet, int. trim) for free and have the same results. Now I do SOMEWHAT agree with you on the whole sunroof removal, yes it WILL decrease your central weight for better handling, BUT for someone who doesn't know how to weld it would be hard to cover up the giant hole that is in the roof, so there you would be better off buying a mod.

Also in racing (track, autoX) more power is not always better, take a corvette for example it has loads of HP and TQ but is quite hard to use all of it around a corner, but if you take an elise or exige it has the 1zz/2zz from a 7th Gen. celica which isn't that powerful but hell if those things cant use all of there power around a corner.

ok, first of all, you can't remove the spare tire if its already been removed. its a given that anyone running track or autox will already have their spare removed and other similar easy to remove items. when you are talking about swapping out CF parts you should be past the point of diminishing returns, so you're spending a lot to save a little.

Also, in general, more power is always better in track racing. a corvette doesnt need to drive at the limit to compare to an elise or exige. sure, the lotus' handle quite well, but given a capable driver, the corvette should win on any track that isn't designed for a go-cart. and just because you have an extra 300 hp on a lotus doesnt mean that you need to use it all.

[BonzaiCelica]

how about some plastic molded headlights?

and a denso leightweight alternator??? or one of these http://www.jonesracingproducts.com/alt.html#

as I was also looking as to how they make carbon fiber hoods

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 21, 2017 - 5:41 PM

[hatchy_gt-s]

The problem with your argument is that you are basing it off an unlimited amount of money, I could either spend money on a part that will get me 5-10 hp or I could remove something (spare/jack, seats, carpet, int. trim) for free and have the same results. Now I do SOMEWHAT agree with you on the whole sunroof removal, yes it WILL decrease your central weight for better handling, BUT for someone who doesn't know how to weld it would be hard to cover up the giant hole that is in the roof, so there you would be better off buying a mod.

Also in racing (track, autoX) more power is not always better, take a corvette for example it has loads of HP and TQ but is quite hard to use all of it around a corner, but if you take an elise or exige it has the 1zz/2zz from a 7th Gen. celica which isn't that powerful but hell if those things cant use all of there power around a corner.

ok, first of all, you can't remove the spare tire if its already been removed. its a given that anyone running track or autox will already have their spare removed and other similar easy to remove items. when you are talking about swapping out CF parts you should be past the point of diminishing returns, so you're spending a lot to save a little.

Also, in general, more power is always better in track racing. a corvette doesnt need to drive at the limit to compare to an elise or exige. sure, the lotus' handle quite well, but given a capable driver, the corvette should win on any track that isn't designed for a go-cart. and just because you have an extra 300 hp on a lotus doesnt mean that you need to use it all.

First I was using the spare as an example.
Second I never said anything about using CF.
and for the whole racing thing i will use my celica compared to my mr2. In autox my I will have faster times with my celi then I do with the mr2, and the mr2 has more power an is faster in a straight.

[jimmykay]

sorry, the CF I guess came from the thread title. But I was basicly saying that after you remove the cheap stuff, your costs start going up exponentially to save weight.

for autox your mr2 is either E or C class
your celica is probably G class. so after the PAX, yes, its very possible that your celica is faster. But with raw times, you should be quicker with your mr2.

[playr158]

jimmy lol. corvette should always win over a lotus hahaha.

bonzai ftw i never knew they made a light weight alternator....that is awesome I want one.

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 12, 2010 - 2:03 PM

[hatchy_gt-s]

sorry, the CF I guess came from the thread title. But I was basicly saying that after you remove the cheap stuff, your costs start going up exponentially to save weight.

Oh no doubt, I was saying in the beginning stages of weight reduction compared to engine mod.s or in layman's terms doing free stuff is better then spending money which I think everyone can agree on lol.

[BonzaiCelica]

jimmy lol. corvette should always win over a lotus hahaha.

bonzai ftw i never knew they made a light weight alternator....that is awesome I want one.

which one would be buy. which one is made for our car? i wonder how much weight it would save?

[playr158]

I'm not sure which one would work, I haven't seen a celica alt. in a very long time.
a LTW alternator is some thing you would probably want to look into when you're completely running out of options to cut weight

[BonzaiCelica]

ya I know. But a carbon fiber hood with white rims wouldnt look that good on a red celica would it?

[95st-celica]

it would if you went with a C/F hatch and painted the roof black....or layed C/F over it like i plan too....or just spray the C/F hood red...

[yellowchinaman]

Our builds do drink alot. The most eetive way to increase performance on power to weight ratio is to lose weight.
That's why we oer carbon hoods and carbon kits. Very soon in a few months time we'll introduce a carbon trunk lid aiming to weigh around hal o the OEM lid.
Depending what you want, you gotta balance out the cost to what what you want to gain.
Where as we want to keep alot of basics like ICE, and air con and rear seats, we do gut out alot of crap which is not needed in the GT-Fours.

This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Feb 16, 2010 - 2:40 PM

[playr158]

Someone needs to produce a lexan or plexiglass rear window. I can make rear sides for my own car but the rear is too complex and big for me.
that would reduce weight :eeps:

[BonzaiCelica]

Someone needs to produce a lexan or plexiglass rear window. I can make rear sides for my own car but the rear is too complex and big for me.
that would reduce weight :eeps:

true that. plexiglass is resistant to scratches, and lexan is more durable than plexiglass right?

I'm not a huge Integra type r fan. But Im fond of how honda made their Civics and integra's such lightweight cars. The JDM integra 96 spec which has no airbags ABS, Audio System and No air conditioning weighs 2,337 pounds. And the 98 Spec Integra type R weighs 2,425 pounds, and has a plexi glass rear window, something like a 10% thinner front windshield, standard lightweight abs and airbags come equipped. But the USDM has Type R weighs in at 2,600 pounds. 175 pound weight difference between both JDM and USDM teg's is a lot. the fact that type r comes with 1.8 ltre all aluminum engine also contributes to its lightness...

I was also looking at import tuner or honda tuner and they had a stock integra gs-r that weighed in a 2635 or something, and after making the car as lightweight as possible while still able to drive on the streets, had lost 625 pounds!!! that's incredible.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 15, 2018 - 3:53 AM

[SwissFerdi]

true that. plexiglass is resistant to scratches, and lexan is more durable than plexiglass right?

I'm not a huge Integra type r fan. But Im fond of how honda made their Civics and integra's such leightweight cars. The JDM integra 96 spec which has no airbags and abs, and possibly no air conditiong but not sure, weighs 2,337 pounds. And the 98 Spec Integra type R weighs 2,425 pounds, and has a plexi glass rear window, something like a 10% thinner front windshield, standard leightweight abs and airbags come equipped. But the USDM has Type R weighs in at 2,600 pounds. 175 pound weight difference between both JDM and USDM teg's is a lot. the fact that type r comes with 1.8 ltre also contributes to its lightness...

I was also looking at import tuner or honda tuner and they had a stock integra gs that weighed in a 2635 or something, and after making the car as leightweight as possible while still able to drive on the streets, had lost 625 pounds!!! that's incredible.

My ST has airbags, AC, etc...and weighs in at around 2450. I thought the Tegs were a lot lighter than that, now I'm not so impressed anymore.

[playr158]

Curb weight on a USDM celica is like 2398lbs or something close to that....its feasable to hit 2,000.....

[BonzaiCelica]

2,415 is the curb weight for an ST Liftback celica, but that doesnt include abs (abs weighs another 30 pounds)... While tegs are lighter than celica yes I used to think they were really lightweight. The real lightweights are eg6 and ek9 civics....

2,395 pounds is the coupe st

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Dec 13, 2016 - 2:15 PM

[SwissFerdi]

Well, the official weight of mine is 2409 (I do not have ABS). However, I'm factoring in tC wheels at 22 pounds each, and a subwoofer and amp in the back. So I give it 2450.

[BonzaiCelica]

refer to my post down low. there are more accurate numbers there!

the more weight you take out from the interior the more it throws off the front to rear weight distribution. So if you had coilovers and got them weight balanced so that you can get as close to a 50/50 ratio then it would be fine. The more weight you take off the rear means the front will only get heavier, which will be prone to more understeer and unstable rear end right?[/b]

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Dec 6, 2012 - 7:06 PM

[azian_advanced]

on a fwd, there's going to be more understeer but with a lighter rear-end, the center of gravity shifts towards the front giving you better acceleration.

[playr158]

yea i've removed the sunroof (fabricating a composite plug to replace it) its like 4x lbs all together.

[BonzaiCelica]

yea i've removed the sunroof (fabricating a composite plug to replace it) its like 4x lbs all together.

really azian advanced I didn't know that?? interested I'll look into that. Hey let me see that sun roof cover when you get a chance to take some pics please!

[willsmorke]

It 's very good things to Reduce the Weight and making the vehicle lighter. The best way to lighten your new car or truck is to remove parts which you do not need as well as to take the vital parts of your car and replace them with lighter models.

[azian_advanced]

lately, i've been thinking of adding weight to my car to get more traction in the snow... lead weights positioned at the front behind the bumper would be the best spot to put them..

[Culpable04]

or you can get thinner tires for the front.

[BonzaiCelica]

Weight Reduction Modifications

Stage 1 = 80 pounds savings
• AGM 17 lb Battery = 18 pounds less (OEM Battery Weighs 35 pounds for USA Market)
• 1st Generation Scion TC (2AZ-FE) Starter = 2 pounds lighter
• Fiberglass Hood with carbon overlay (VIS or Seibon) = 11 pounds less
• Rear Seats (Backing and Cushion) = 36 pounds
• Liftback Trunk Cover = 6 pounds
• Kakimoto R Cat Back Exhaust = 7 pounds less

Stage 2 = 68 pounds savings
• Adjustable Coilovers 28 Pounds less (Mcpherson)
• 3SGE Stainless Steel Header n' Bpipe for 3SGE (OEM weighs 32 lbs) = 12-14 pounds less
• Stainless Steel Test Pipe = 5 pounds less
• Rear window wiper/Motor and OEM Antenna = 4 pounds
• Big Brake Kit with 304x26mm Rotors (Ceika) = 17 pound less

Stage 3 = 240-245 pounds savings
• Floor Mats, Carpet n’ Lining and Firewall Lining with Sound Deadening = 20 pounds
• 6 Speaker Audio Sound System (Headunit, Amplifier, Speakers n Brackets) = 12 pounds
• Interior Panels from Driver Seat to Trunk = 18 pounds
• Door Panels = 12 pounds
• Spare Tire, Wooden Tire Cover, Trunk Carpet and Jack = 35 pounds
• Air Bag from Steering Wheel = 4 pounds
• Full Bucket Racing Seat = 10 pounds less over stock
• Full Carbon Fiber Hood = 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)

• Carbon Fiber Roof = 11 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• Fiberglass Trunk = 19 pound less or Carbon Fiber Trunk = 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• Rear Window (swap in for Lexan) = 17 pound less
• Headlights and fog lights replaced with headlight covers = 12 pounds
• Removing all A/C system components = 45 pounds

OVERALL WEIGHT SAVINGS = 388 POUNDS


Sunroof with motor and Headliner 33 pounds, Aluminum ST205 Hood: 14 pounds less

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 27, 2025 - 1:23 AM

[Arsaces]

I had an Integra, I don't have numbers, but from what I was always told they were "heavy" compared to other Hondas (Excluding Del Sol). I can tell you this, the Celica has a much nicer ride, and the performance is not that much worse (roughly the same after the few mods I have done).

[BonzaiCelica]

Curb weight on a USDM celica is like 2398lbs or something close to that....its feasable to hit 2,000.....

hmm It would take a lot of work to cut down the weight from an st to 2,000 pounds. I already listed everything you could lose weight from. An additional 25 pounds all around with some forged 16 inch wheels would be a good idea. But the that would only bring the weight of the car down to 300 pounds from stock weight. So where would that extra 100 pound weight loss come from???

And how to cut 33 pounds from the top of your roof:





This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Dec 17, 2012 - 3:36 PM

[johnyboy1976]

Cant give figures but i have removed a lot of kit from my JDM ST205
Removed aircon
Fg wings
Cf bonnet
Cf hatch & lexan screen
Cf mirrors
Rear seats removed
Aerial & motor removed
Rear wiper & motor removed
No spare wheel , jack ect
Dash swapped for non air bag version
Coilovers
Uprated discs and callipers all round - quite a lot lighter despite being far bigger
Cf seats
Also got FG doors but i might sell these on not sure yet

[Rob_A]

The wings and bonnet don't make too much difference unfortunately Johny

Aircon is the biggest one, as is losing the failbox for a FMIC.
Light wheels and brakes will make biggest difference to acceleration!

[BonzaiCelica]

ohhh Rusty....

can we get this stickied please , maybe change the title to "how to lighten you celica for track use".....

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Oct 23, 2011 - 1:13 AM

[johnyboy1976]

The wings and bonnet don't make too much difference unfortunately Johny

Aircon is the biggest one, as is losing the failbox for a FMIC.
Light wheels and brakes will make biggest difference to acceleration!

Yer my team dynamics are very light - not as light as your volks though and FMIC and lightweight battery
Might be my imagination but my versions are motor sport spec and they seem lighter than the regular ones on Erins

[SwissFerdi]

Light wheels and brakes will make biggest difference to acceleration!

Really true. I've come to realize my wheels might be unacceptably heavy, I've lost a bit of steering feel and acceleration going from the original tire diameter (185/70/14) on steelies to these wheels, 20 or so lbs per wheel, 225/45/17 tires. A very heavy and tall combination.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Oct 23, 2011 - 9:16 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

another thing I was reading from the honda tech forums. If you replace the rear hatch window for a lexan/plastic type material it is highly recommended to install a roll cage. The glass on the hatch helps a lot with rigidity. Since their double wishbone suspension is more rigid then our, I think they know what they are talking about...

of course this only applies to FF Layout Celica's....

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Oct 28, 2011 - 3:40 AM

[playr158]

Bonzai, i removed all my windows.

door windows are gone (you can't race with them up, and you can always replace with lexan/plexi
also removed the two smaller side windows as well and having them replaced. However, *everything* is gone from my car so it doesn't count until i put things back together

once i get my coilovers I should really take my shell to the weight scales

I like what you did with the roof, but rivets

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 28, 2011 - 8:32 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

thats not what I did player. Thats a photo taken from honda tech. its an example. I'm just getting idea's of how to plug up the sunroof. I'm probably weld that sunroof shut or whatever the shop advises me to do.

[playr158]

Ahhhh thank goodness. rivets look horrible.
Wish I had time to get to my garage and finish that stuff up
I'd like to make it removable instead of just welding it shut.

[Rusty]

There is this info on GTFours.uk, they also weights of GT4 specific parts in another section




stickied & moved to the suspension section as it has more to do with that side of things.

This post has been edited by Rusty: Oct 31, 2011 - 1:01 AM

[czwalga]

A lot of rally cars just rivet the sunroof hole closed. I welded and fiberglassed mine. I was running out of time and it looks like ****, but hey whatever.


As far as buying carbon fiber body panels for weight savings, its useless unless you're really involved in some type of racing. My dads 230lbs and I cant really tell much of a difference with him in the car and without. Really amazes me what some people go to for weight savings in a car that might see the drag strip once a year or an autox occaisionally. The mustang guys (when I used to have one) were hell bent on rear seat deletes that saved like 30 lbs... because they drag raced occaisionally.

[BonzaiCelica]

look below for weight reduction totals!

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 6, 2022 - 10:52 PM

[Special_Edy]

First Id like to say that for every vehicle I have owned I could feel the difference between having a passenger and not. You can feel the loss of acceleration, the suspension over bumps and the way the vehicle rolled around turns. On my motorcycle and 6gc I can even feel a full fuel tank vs an empty tank. The slower the car the greater the performance gain from reduced weight.


Another idea Id like to add to this thread is that the most effective places to reduce weight are on
(a) rotating parts such as the crankshaft, flywheel and tire/wheels. These parts store a lot of inertia so lightening them will reduce significantly reduce the speed at which the engine/drivetrain accelerate and decelerate. Pound for pound the most effective area to reduce weight.
(b) the unsprung weight on the suspension such as control arms, brakes and tire/wheel. The less the moving components of the suspension weigh the less inertia they have. Reduced inertia means that the suspension will react faster to the road surface which reduces wheel hop and the amount of vibrations/bumps that are felt within the cabin of the vehicle.
© the parts which are on the extreme height of the vehicle such as bumpers, batterys, sunroofs, hoods, trunks and so on. The higher in elevation a part is from the roll center of the vehicle(meaning the higher off the ground it is) the more it will cause the body of the vehicle to roll around turns which reduces traction. You are effectively lowering the center of gravity(just like when you drop it) towards the surface of the road.
(d) the parts at the outer extremes from the vehicles center of inertia such as the battery, bumpers, fenders, hood, hatch, engine and so on. Just like the weight of the rotating mass in the engine effects its ability to rev up quickly, so do the heavy components at the extreme front, rear, and sides effect the vehicles moment of inertia. The vehicle will turn easier and more quickly with a reduced moment of inertia which is why mid-engined cars handle so much better than their front engined counterparts. The best example I can give is whether it is easier to swing a heavy bat or hammer vs your empty hand.


Anyways, the point is that certain areas of the car magnify the effects of heavy components. Parts that spin effect acceleration and deceleration performance. Parts farther away from the center of the vehicle effect the handling of the car by effecting the angular acceleration of the vehicle around its center of gravity, which includes roll, yaw and pitch.

[Box]

Unless you're using the car strictly for some form of auto racing, I don't see the point in carbon fiber parts. Well, aside from a carbon fiber driveshaft. Better off spending the money on lighter wheels, flywheel, etc... first and using carbon fiber body panels as a last ditch effort to remove weight.

[Batman722]

And back from the dead again.
These are the actual #s. I know, I weighed them myself.

The Carbon Fiber hatch by itself weighs ... 15 lbs

The stock hatch without the glass weighs ... 40 lbs

The glass from the hatch weighs ... 18 lbs

Stock hatch (with glass, wiring, under plastics, brake light, wiper motor) = about 60 lbs
The CF hatch (with glass, wiring, under plastics, brake light) = about 35 lbs

[playr158]

25lbs!!!!! for how much effort and money hahaha oh well good fun at least and i guess you can say it'll help handling since it will move the center of gravity ~1/8" lower in the car

Nice work though Bats.

This post has been edited by playr158: Nov 12, 2013 - 12:21 PM

[Tigawoods]

couple the cf hatch with plexiglass and then it may be a bit more worth the time!

[Box]

Just remove the hatch completely and cover it with plastic sheeting, more weight reduction for less money.

[dudeofchaos]

Just remove the hatch completely and cover it with plastic sheeting, more weight reduction for less money.

Goodbye airflow/aerodynamics.

[Box]

Nah... Just do it so that it's taught, and makes a nice surface. It'd be like a tonneau cover, sorta.

[cardshark525]

It's actually not as crazy expensive as I thought for a CF hatch as I've found them for $700 (I was fully expecting over a grand). I've also been experimenting at work with different clear coatings for lexan as I know it can get scratched up. However considering it's on the hatch it probably wouldn't be terrible and your biggest issue would be it fogging up. If you coupled that with the CF hatch you're looking at dropping about 40 pounds. The lexan itself to cover that kind or area isn't that expensive either it'd run around $60.

Once you've done all the "free weight savings" this is probably the most cost effective weight savings you'll find.

Getting lightweight wheels will give you more get-up-and-go than this, but 40 pounds for around $750 bucks isn't bad at all.



Unless you want to do this.... lol

http://www.modified.com/features/0208_tech...stance_program/

This post has been edited by cardshark525: Nov 15, 2013 - 8:44 PM

[Batman722]

I got the CF hatch in a deal and a spare stock hatch (for the glass) from mkernz.
I might put the cf hatch on one of the cars and still have the stock hatch to replace if I sell it.

As for weight reductions, I know my hatch struts are gonna work fantastic now.
I really don't care about the weight or lack of weight with it. I'm happy that it's lighter than stock and is neato to look at, also, I would rather put on a cf hatch than remove...my moonroof, spare tire, hatch cover, seats, power steering, airbag, door panels, speakers, floormatts, and headlights.

I'm not making track cars, I have daily drivers.

[cardshark525]

Totally understand.. I'm going for the complete other end of the spectrum.

Before I picked up Shannon's car there was a really nice 2000 BMW 328i I was looking at, (owner didn't mention it was auto till I got there) and my wife said something about driving her friends around in it. I go "In what? You watch how fast I'll turn a sedan into a one seater..."

This post has been edited by cardshark525: Nov 16, 2013 - 1:10 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

Weight Reduction Modifications

Stage 1 = 80 pounds savings
• AGM 17 lb Battery = 18 pounds less (OEM Battery Weighs 35 pounds for USA Market)
• 1st Generation Scion TC (2AZ-FE) Starter = 2 pounds lighter
• Fiberglass Hood with carbon overlay (VIS or Seibon) = 11 pounds less
• Rear Seats (Backing and Cushion) = 36 pounds
• Liftback Trunk Cover = 6 pounds
• Kakimoto R Cat Back Exhaust = 7 pounds less

Stage 2 = 68 pounds savings
• Adjustable Coilovers 28 Pounds less (Mcpherson)
• 3SGE Stainless Steel Header n' Bpipe for 3SGE (OEM weighs 32 lbs) = 12-14 pounds less
• Stainless Steel Test Pipe = 5 pounds less
• Rear window wiper/Motor and OEM Antenna = 4 pounds
• Big Brake Kit with 304x26mm Rotors (Ceika) = 17 pound less

Stage 3 = 240-245 pounds savings
• Floor Mats, Carpet n’ Lining and Firewall Lining with Sound Deadening = 20 pounds
• 6 Speaker Audio Sound System (Headunit, Amplifier, Speakers n Brackets) = 12 pounds
• Interior Panels from Driver Seat to Trunk = 18 pounds
• Door Panels = 12 pounds
• Spare Tire, Wooden Tire Cover, Trunk Carpet and Jack = 35 pounds
• Air Bag from Steering Wheel = 4 pounds
• Full Bucket Racing Seat = 10 pounds less over stock
• Full Carbon Fiber Hood = 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)

• Carbon Fiber Roof = 11 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• Fiberglass Trunk = 19 pound less or Carbon Fiber Trunk = 25 pounds less (Carbon Microsystem)
• Rear Window (swap in for Lexan) = 17 pound less
• Headlights and fog lights replaced with headlight covers = 12 pounds
• Removing all A/C system components = 45 pounds

OVERALL WEIGHT SAVINGS = 388 POUNDS


Sunroof with motor and Headliner 33 pounds, Aluminum ST205 Hood: 14 pounds less

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 27, 2025 - 1:13 AM

[njccmd2002]

just increase horsepower and keep the luxuries.... lol

[BonzaiCelica]

98-99 Celica SS3 with Superstrut has thicker axles which weigh a pound heavier per side.

Full beams air intake system weighs 7.4lbs

[BonzaiCelica]

updated. was bored n weighed more parts n added to list above...