How can I add Some HP???, Easy ways to add horse power? Options

[k-weaver]

Hello Everyone,

First off I would just like to say thankyou for everyone who posts on this web site, I have found out so many different things just by reading other posts. Again this is a great site, thankyou all.

Anyway,
I own a '96 Celica GT with a 5s-fe. I currently have:
NGK Plugs
Catback exhaust 2.25" pipeing
CAI
Header

My car has 148,000 miles on it and I was just wondering how I can get some more horse power out of it without swapping and without throwing in a turbo (seems like alot of miles to turbo, prolly a waste...). At this point I am kind of out of ideas. I was thinking of putting an MSD ignition box in, however I was reading on here that I will see little to nothing by doing so. I also thought about adding one of those "racing chips". Again, I read on this site that these are crap.

I am pretty much learning as I go. Every performance upgrade to my car I have performed (except exhaust) so I am not afraid to get my hands dirty. Any thoughts or ideas will be highly appreciated...

[Redline08]

an apexi safcII will get the most out of that intake and exhaust, then advance your timing 15 degrees and use 91 octane. thats all i can think of

I dont know how to advance timing, i wish someone would do a write up lol

[kingtut12]

I am new to Celicas, and maybe I am out of line here because of a lack of knowledge on the Celica's engine, but I would be very careful on changing timing that much without knowing your AFR's. Even a knock counter would be nice to have in order to see when your detonating. I come from the Subaru WRX/STI world and its scary how many people modify without doing it properly. A CAI and an exhaust, in my opinion, requires some tuning to the EMS because of the change in airflow. It would be nice if Cobb Tuning or TurboXS would release a couple "on the shelf" maps to upload.

[Redline08]

thats why i said get the safc2 it has a knock sensor, and people change the timing 15 degrees on celicas all the time at meets, you just need a timing light and a 91 or higher (i think) octane fuel in your tank.

subaru wrx= boxy rice

[kingtut12]

Ok - thats good. See, i told you I knew nothing about them

but seriously, is that 15 degree increase overall? At any load, and any RPM, and any TPS? Or can you advance in increments? Does that piece also allow to add or dump fuel?

thanks




Subaru = AWD Turbo boxer engine

[Redline08]

subaru=awd pwnage
wrx=boxy rice lol


but yea the apexi safc2 allows you to lean out your fuel or add fuel at watever points on your fuel curve you want, so basicall you can lean out your fuel mixture where ever you want on your rpm curve. You need to dyno tune it though.

as far as the 15 degree advanced timing, i dont really know what it does but im positive it gains hp lol.

[k-weaver]

Thanks for the input guys, I will look into the SafcII. As far as timing goes, i'm not sure I would want to mess around with that...

[Redline08]

yea timing is hard, ive heard people talk about it being fairly easy but it doesnt seem easy to me lol

i think someone needs to do a write up about it

[SlowCelica94]

Nitrous. It'll yeild more power then any other said mod.

[Redline08]

Nitrous

expensive and to easy to waste, wont pass inspection, bad for your engine, and youll still need an apexi safc2 and advanced timing or you wont be able to provide ample combustion

Also if you use nitrous that 148,000 mile engine will die at 170,000 lol

if you do decide to get nitrous then get a purge kit too, they look hella cool

[SlowCelica94]

Nitrous

expensive and to easy to waste, wont pass inspection, bad for your engine, and youll still need an apexi safc2 and advanced timing or you wont be able to provide ample combustion

Also if you use nitrous that 148,000 mile engine will die at 170,000 lol

if you do decide to get nitrous then get a purge kit too, they look hella cool

Expensive? Considering what you pay for a turbo, it's far cheaper. Sorry, I totally disagree with your 'expensive' comment. Nitrous is the cheapest hp avaiable.

Inspection? What inspection? And all the hardware is easy to hide and if you have any type of inspection, you can just yank the bottle.

Bad for Engine? No worse then boost.

Providing ample combustion? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Back that one up, cause you're totally wrong.

And your engine will last with nitrous as long as you have half a brain and know how to maintance your engine.

And purge kits are only good for clearing out the lines before injection. Don't just purge to 'look cool', it's a waste of nitrous.

[playr158]

^amen

forced induction is forced induction..
a supercharger, turbo and nitrous are all going to shorten the life of your motor by a decent amount since a 5sfe was NEVER designed for boost/nitrous.

gains will come best by
a) becoming a better driver (autocross events(stock), track days (you get an instructor)
b) 2.25" exhaust with headers
c) oem intake w/k&n drop in (or do the accord CAI mod)
d) there are no "racing chips" for our car....anything you see is crap and a rip off
e) nitrous will be the cheapest per HP for your car (in the short run)
f) turboing is going to be much harder than nitrous, STILL will not pass inspections, and in the long run it will be cheaper.

g) i'd highly suggest neither until you've fully exploited the abilities of the car in its current form and really learned how to drive

[SlowCelica94]

Everyone calls nitrous expensive due to all the bottle refills. If you really only use the stuff when you race and don't squeeze on every drive, you'll be mazed how long a bottle will last.

[Redline08]

Turbo was always out of the question so why did u bring it up, and an experienced mechanic INSPECTING A CAR LIKE EVERY SINGLE CAR IN AMERICA GOES THROUGH wont notice his CAI, headers, catback and not take a closer look for the many illegal performance mods there are out there? A yanked out tank isnt going to hide jackkk.

Providing ample combustion? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Back that one up, cause you're totally wrong.

Are you serious?!?! dude your adding way more oxygen to the engine. The stock engine doesnt know your going to be pumping pure oxygen into it and wont add extra fuel to compensate. THATS HOW PEOPLE BLOW ENGINES UP WITH NITROUS. Read about it before you open your mouth, nitrous is cheap power and anyone who knows anything about cars is going to stay away from cheap power!

and if nitrous is so cheap then why are you worried about him wasting it through a purge?

[playr158]

anyone who knows anything about cars....is going to look at nitrous...
look how PROVEN it is with muscle cars....my friend just dropped a 100shot on his M3....MANY MANY cars are PROVEN very successful and reliable with nitrous...

cheap power > you

[Redline08]

maybe on a muscle car but a 4 cyl puttputt with less than 100hp?

toyota didnt build the 5sfe with any intentions of power, if nitrous was the god of all power like you are making it out to be then why do so few celicas have it? how come people spend more than three grand and endless hours of work on 3s swaps when they could be bolting on the o so amazing nitrous.

It gets a bad rep for a reason, its pussy juice; and how is cheap power ever a good idea? you get wat you pay for, thats the rule and it will never change

[SlowCelica94]

Turbo was always out of the question so why did u bring it up, and an experienced mechanic INSPECTING A CAR LIKE EVERY SINGLE CAR IN AMERICA GOES THROUGH wont notice his CAI, headers, catback and not take a closer look for the many illegal performance mods there are out there? A yanked out tank isnt going to hide jackkk.

Providing ample combustion? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Back that one up, cause you're totally wrong.

Are you serious?!?! dude your adding way more oxygen to the engine. The stock engine doesnt know your going to be pumping pure oxygen into it and wont add extra fuel to compensate. THATS HOW PEOPLE BLOW ENGINES UP WITH NITROUS. Read about it before you open your mouth, nitrous is cheap power and anyone who knows anything about cars is going to stay away from cheap power!

and if nitrous is so cheap then why are you worried about him wasting it through a purge?

Inspection? I've never had a single one of my car's inspected. But its very easy to hide, you just mount the silniods is a cleaver spot, hide the lines and have the nozzle plumbed into the bottom of the intake.

And as far as the combustion....the wet kits come with a fuel injector thro the nozzle. Even the dry kit comes a way to bump up the fuel when ur spraying.

It's not pussy juice, you just don't know dick about cars. Juniors, I've been playing with nitrous for years, you're outta league on this one.

maybe on a muscle car but a 4 cyl puttputt with less than 100hp?

toyota didnt build the 5sfe with any intentions of power, if nitrous was the god of all power like you are making it out to be then why do so few celicas have it? how come people spend more than three grand and endless hours of work on 3s swaps when they could be bolting on the o so amazing nitrous.

It gets a bad rep for a reason, its pussy juice; and how is cheap power ever a good idea? you get wat you pay for, thats the rule and it will never change

So few celis have it cause of idiots like you spread all this misinformation.

[6strngs]

I had my timing advanced to 18 degrees BTDC with 91 octane gas. no problems at all. it makes the car accellerate a little faster in the low rpms. here, I'll even do a write-up for you right now:

1: on the left side of the engine, near your belts and stuff, you should see this plate with numbers on it. it should say like 15, 10, 5, 0, 5. if you point a timing light set to 0 (if you have an adjustable one) at it, you should see a mark on one of the belts right next to the 10 (assuming your timing is in spec) (also, the car should be running)
2: now, go over to your distributor cap and you should see that there is this one 12 or 14mm bolt kinda above it slightly. loosen up that bolt, and you'll see that you can now rotate the whole distributor cap.
3: turn the distributor cap clockwise a little, then go back and check your timing, turn it a little more, check the timing, etc. until you are at your desired spec (I think the max it goes is 20 or 25, which might ok for 93 octane, but I'm not sure, I did 18 with 91 octane with no problems. I also ran it at 15 BTDC on 89 octane; again, with no problems).
4: put the bolt back in and enjoy!



now, other ways for power. cams. webcams makes some for the 5sfe; but I'm pretty sure you'll definately need to tune after you get those. I'd say get a greddy emanage ultimate. it's better than a SAFC in that instead of just altering your map signal which screws up your timing, you can adjust the injectors as well as the timing, and a bunch of other stuff. but it's about twice as expensive.

other than that, maybe you could find a bigger throttle body somewhere. I've head of people using a 5.0 mustang throttle body and a supra 7mge (or 7mgte, can't remember) throttle body. but I don't know what modifications they had to do to get them to work.

[Redline08]

So few celis have it cause of idiots like you spread all this misinformation.

lmao, ok dude i am the only reason nitrous isnt used by thousands of celi owners...

Nitrous isnt used because its not practical. To run nitrous successfully and safely, you have to introduce precise amounts of additional fuel with precise amounts of nitrous oxide which requires something like an safc2 or a piggyback fuel management system. All of the extra oxygen provided by the nitrous oxide must have fuel with which to burn or you will damage your engine severely. On top of that in order to reach a power gain through all the rpms, not just the lower ones, you have to advance your ignition just right and it is too easy to run too much ignition advance with nitrous, and too much will not only hurt power, it will quickly bring a nitrous engine into detonation and destroy it.

So in the end in order to not kill yourself and your car you will spend a ton of money getting the piggyback and your ignition right, on top of dyno tuning and refills. Not at all practical...

O and by the way sherlock he lives in cali which has the most picky and strict inspections in america, in addition cali is home to thousands of ricers who think nitrous makes your car a rocket and im sure mechanics know to check the intake tube or the intake manifold, it takes 2 seconds and they get to charge for removal so its 2 seconds well spent.

[SlowCelica94]

Jebus, you are so misinformed. The fuel is easy to get right. If you run a wet kit, the supplied pills that care of it. Thus, you do NOT need any dyno time or tuning or even an AFC.

And if you're smart, you can easily hide it. I've installed a bunch of kits for street racers who wanna sandbag. None of their victums ever know about the nitrous. None of my clients have had any complaints

If nitrous was so dangerous, you wouldn't see it on every f-body.

And so you know, even if tech's are checking the intake pipe, there's other places on the intake mani to put it.

You're very misinformed and I would think you'd notice.

http://www.civicforums.com/forums/79-force...itrous-faq.html

There ya go, learn something

[playr158]

toyota didnt build the 5sfe with any intentions of power, if nitrous was the god of all power like you are making it out to be then why do so few celicas have it? how come people spend more than three grand and endless hours of work on 3s swaps when they could be bolting on the o so amazing nitrous.

Nitrous is by far go of all power...i'll be the first to tell you i'll NEVER use it inside my motor (doesn't mean i won't use it on my car) but this is because of my specific setup and tuning.
Simply to explain "why don't more celicas have it"
~because most 6th gen celicas are in the hands of younger people that a) are newer to cars/don't know specifics about detailed tuning/don't have enough finances/smart enough not to kill them selves on the street.

the 6th gen community while it is a great one, and is making progress. is very behind the curve on car modification. Civics, mustangs, integras, cameros, and miatas ALL have major gains on us. There simply isn't enough market in our cars to have the 50 or so people on nitrous like you would see on hundreds of 70hp 4cylinder (OMG) civics.

Just because you don't see it often, or you don't completely understand it, doesn't mean it isn't practical (which nitrous is VERY practical) and safe.

With the newer technology in nitrous kits, their application is becoming ever more easily obtainable and safer.


and timing advancement can only be done as posted above in 94/95 celicas 96+ are OBDII and different (i'm pretty sure)

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 22, 2007 - 11:22 PM

[soven]

I guess due to the low hp powered models in US, not many people on 6gc are pursuing that path

[6strngs]

O and by the way sherlock he lives in cali which has the most picky and strict inspections in america, in addition cali is home to thousands of ricers who think nitrous makes your car a rocket and im sure mechanics know to check the intake tube or the intake manifold, it takes 2 seconds and they get to charge for removal so its 2 seconds well spent.

umm... why don't you actually try know what you're talking about before you say anything. California doesn't even have an inspection. we just need smog once every two years and when I had mine done in april he basically just checked that I still had two catalytic converters and that my intake had a CARB sticker on it. that was it. besides, even if they did check for nitrous they only check once every two years so you just have to pull the whole thing out once every other year. I'll be ripping my turbo back out in two years (if I don't sell the car by then) for smog.

cali is home to thousands of ricers? haha. it's also home to the some of the most modified cars in the country. it all depends on what your definition of rice is. to me, a ricer is someone who trys to mod their car to be cool but really doesn't have a clue about how anything actually works.... which to me, is kinda sounding like you right now.

[Redline08]

ok i dont know anything about how cars work but i do know that pumping nitrous into it is a bad idea? no... i do know things about cars, not as much as other people but i know enough and have been around cars enough to know that nitrous isnt practical or popular. So why would you call me a ricer? i dont drive a civic or have silly non-functional hood scoops. I just bought a nice looking car and accepted that it has an econo engine not capable of producing much power. I never said my econobox is the fastest car on earth like ricers...

just to cool things off here because this community isnt the place to fight, you either love nitrous or hate it, there is no in between. I did my research on the stuff and IMO i just didnt think it was worth the risk and time tuning to get 50-75hp out of an economy slowica. If i had a car with a bit more beef like a supra i might explore nitrous more because performance engines can handle molestation better. I live in NY where you have to get your car inspected like every 6 months and they do a rigorous inspection of the engine and exhaust components, they specifcally check for performance mods and things like nitrous, on top of that cops will 90% of the time ask good looking cars to open there hood and they will inspect it themeselves. Nitrous has a no-tolerance policy in NY too, its a really bad idea here and ive just grown to be against it.

I really dont care anymore so no beef

[SlowCelica94]

If it's not for you, that's fine, but just don't go telling other members it's wrong for them

[cHinaman727]

from what i read, he was just giving his opinion, just as you are. everyone chill and respect the others words. Say, "I believe he is wrong, and this is what I thinkg..."

[playr158]

from what i read, he was just giving his opinion, just as you are. everyone chill and respect the others words. Say, "I believe he is wrong, and this is what I thinkg..."

no believe....he IS wrong. and trying to pass off opinion as fact..this is where many around here are getting misinformed and going the wrong direction.

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 23, 2007 - 10:55 AM

[SlowCelica94]

from what i read, he was just giving his opinion, just as you are. everyone chill and respect the others words. Say, "I believe he is wrong, and this is what I thinkg..."

no believe....he IS wrong. and trying to pass off opinion as fact..this is where many around here are getting misinformed and going the wrong direction.

+1 for playr

We're here to help eachother, not foil one another

[Redline08]

back up

this is where many around here are getting misinformed and going the wrong direction

hipocrite

"he is trying to push us in the WRONG direction"

thats pushing your opinion...

we were BOTH wrong in trying to foil EACHOTHER, lets just not do it again

[SlowCelica94]

no, you just posted your opinions about nitrous as fact. I actually posted up factual info. There's a difference

[Redline08]

you did the same thing, just give up, you said one thing and i said the opposite, thats it, there was no right or wrong so just quit it ok?

[playr158]

lol well there is right and wrong....but thats besides the point.
oh and more cheap horsepower...tune-ups and get your cooling system to perform at optimum ability

This post has been edited by playr158: Jul 24, 2007 - 9:41 AM

[k-weaver]

I just recently had my coolant flushed. It was pretty bad, car would run fine except on longer trips it would start to overheat. When I had the guy flush the coolant for me, he said that he had to do it two times because there was so much stuff built up in it. I was thinking of getting one of the TRD thermostats but i am unsure on where to go to purchase it. Any Ideas?

[95st-celica]

ok so how do we add horse power to our cars for god sake with OUT turboing it or addin nitrous..basically there car 3 mods for these things with out spendin over a couple hundred dollers...CAI,Exhaust/headers, and timing..i have come to realize that these cars are NOT fast..they were built more for handeling..you wanna have fun with it and stop worring about hp? take it to a damn road corse and watch how good these things handel....and with only a little bit of susopension work they are next to untouchable for the price range they are in...you want fast?? 3SGTE is you answer or for the money straight up american muscle..which i am now onto....350 camaro (f Body) which was just stolen last tuesday and i found it amazingly...not to get off the topic but really we just have to live with the fact they arent the fastest cars and arent going to be...just make it nice and enjoy haveing a 6gc origonal sick looking body style that they are

[playr158]

I just recently had my coolant flushed. It was pretty bad, car would run fine except on longer trips it would start to overheat. When I had the guy flush the coolant for me, he said that he had to do it two times because there was so much stuff built up in it. I was thinking of getting one of the TRD thermostats but i am unsure on where to go to purchase it. Any Ideas?

a koyo aluminum radiator will help keep things down
as well as running: distilled water + an additive such as REDLINE WATER WETTER.
(no need for coolant like Prestone, until the weather gets colder)

[my96celica]

what's up man love the 5sfe this is my second celica gt in two years I have a duel cold air intake with a thomas racing chip that works good gave my celica gt 23 hp get sum throotle body spacers for like 100 they will give you between 15 to 22 hp headers are the next thing im getin right now im putin two electirc turbos they will give you about 25 to 35 more hp you can get a y unit from autozone to split your cold air intake if you want I love it I could talk about my car all day but my car has alot of mile like 180',000 to say I take good care of my celica and get a tornado im telling you if you want more hp without blowing your motor with a real turbo get the electric ones my buddy makes them for 70 each or 125 for two with the couple of things on my celica im pushin around 165 to 170 im puttin the electric turbo's on the weekend then I should push around 200 to 210 thats without throotle body spacers or headers them two are next month hope I helped you out even a little CELICAS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[6strngs]

what's up man love the 5sfe this is my second celica gt in two years I have a duel cold air intake with a thomas racing chip that works good gave my celica gt 23 hp get sum throotle body spacers for like 100 they will give you between 15 to 22 hp headers are the next thing im getin right now im putin two electirc turbos they will give you about 25 to 35 more hp you can get a y unit from autozone to split your cold air intake if you want I love it I could talk about my car all day but my car has alot of mile like 180',000 to say I take good care of my celica and get a tornado im telling you if you want more hp without blowing your motor with a real turbo get the electric ones my buddy makes them for 70 each or 125 for two with the couple of things on my celica im pushin around 165 to 170 im puttin the electric turbo's on the weekend then I should push around 200 to 210 thats without throotle body spacers or headers them two are next month hope I helped you out even a little CELICAS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet if you get on a dyno you won't have more than 120 at the wheels.

[Redline08]

200 to 210

electric turbos are garbage everyone knows they hurt your engine way more than regular turbo and dont even work... our throttle bodies are allready big enough we dont need spacers... tornado is a scam and eBay will tell you this, eBay will also tell you those crappy resistor "racing chips" are a scam too. Cold air intake adds like 3hp, and headers add maybe 5hp. Your friend is ripping you off, save your money and dont try and buy cheap HP off eBay. 200-210 is the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard, 6strngs was right, you wont make more than 120 on a dyno...

save your money and research things before you assume what the seller is telling you is true (especially on eBay). Dont go down the path of cheap hp, everyone knows its a rip off and will hurt your car instead of helping it.

research research research, sorry for getting you down too...

[my96celica]

I figured that much a place on this website tells us that to get the max out of our upgrades to reset our ECU everytime we upgrade it's pretty darn easy they tell us how to do it and im still getin my throttle body spacers then I will dyno the car again and ill let you all know how much hp I have and what upgrades I have.if anyone can dyno test thier car try reseting ur ECU then dyno the car let us all know if it's true

[Harold_Fastwaker]

what's up man love the 5sfe this is my second celica gt in two years I have a duel cold air intake with a thomas racing chip that works good gave my celica gt 23 hp get sum throotle body spacers for like 100 they will give you between 15 to 22 hp headers are the next thing im getin right now im putin two electirc turbos they will give you about 25 to 35 more hp you can get a y unit from autozone to split your cold air intake if you want I love it I could talk about my car all day but my car has alot of mile like 180',000 to say I take good care of my celica and get a tornado im telling you if you want more hp without blowing your motor with a real turbo get the electric ones my buddy makes them for 70 each or 125 for two with the couple of things on my celica im pushin around 165 to 170 im puttin the electric turbo's on the weekend then I should push around 200 to 210 thats without throotle body spacers or headers them two are next month hope I helped you out even a little CELICAS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude that is badass. Dual CAI with throttle body spacers. Do you have Dual headers as well?

[6strngs]

I figured that much a place on this website tells us that to get the max out of our upgrades to reset our ECU everytime we upgrade it's pretty darn easy they tell us how to do it and im still getin my throttle body spacers then I will dyno the car again and ill let you all know how much hp I have and what upgrades I have.if anyone can dyno test thier car try reseting ur ECU then dyno the car let us all know if it's true

it's to reset the computer so it can adjust itself. if you add more air then you'd run lean, so the ECU compensates for it. you don't necessarily need to reset the ECU, after some time it will just automatically adjust itself.

[Redline08]

so your saying resetting the ECU is stupid but dual cold air intakes and mini leaf blowers are smart?

lmfaooooo

[6strngs]

so your saying resetting the ECU is stupid but dual cold air intakes and mini leaf blowers are smart?

lmfaooooo

no. I didn't say anything even remotely close to that. I explained WHY resetting the ECU works, but said it's not necessary because it will just reset itself after time. AND I never approved of the dual CAI or electric turbos. notice how I said he would have no more than 120 at the wheels? A near-stock (injen intake) GT makes like 110-115.

[Redline08]

i wasnt talkin to you playa! i was talking to the other kid who said throttle body spacers on our cars make hp

this website tells us that to get the max out of our upgrades to reset our ECU

[cwlevie21]

i think this thread should be closed b4 to many wonderin minds get to many ideas and end up killin their cars... to much hate goin on in here... every1 needs to chill

[hellnegative]

N/A, Turbo, Supercharged, and NOS

Either way, you are going to be spending a good bit of money for a proper set up on a high mileage motor.

I will start with NOS. Great cheap HP boost right. If you look at the big picture,.... On a high mileage motor, you are gonna need a rebuild after every 15,000 miles. All of those gaskets and all of that work starts to add up. On top of using fuel management for proper firing.; You can use NOS without fuel management, but you increase the risk of detonation.

Next comes Supercharging. You are pull power to make power. Although, this would seem inefficient, ithe amount of power taken to make more power can be greatly decreased with the use of smaller pullies, standalone management, etc.Superchargers are also expensive, though.

MmmMMmm, turbos. I prefer turbocharging to anything. It is cheap, efficient, and easy. With a lil bit of research and math, you can take a great turbo system and make it blow. If you have the money, kits for our cars start at 2,400. If you are lacking on cash, you can put one together from used parts and ebay for about 600. Again, research makes this efficient.

N/A. You will spensd more time and money on your motor then any other option. But, you will eventually be doing an essential N/A set up, just about neway you go. I started working N/A and am now working toward turbo. Every vehicle I have had were all N/A. Harder to tune, but you can get a greater increase in HP.


Of course, you can run NOS on a supercharged, turbocharged, or NA engine. But, increased heat means increased maintenance. I also have to say, I am not putting down any for of tuning. Just presenting my views. One mans vice is always gonna break some other guys perspective.

[vsideboy]

just do an engine swap to an st205?