OH NO celica won't turn over, advice needed Options

[uberschall]

hey everybody. i'm in a bit of a hurt and i hope somebody can give me some insight.

my 5sfe didn't start today. i've NEVER had a problem with it before. the starter runs but the engine won't turn over. it's damp and rainy today, for what it's worth. it has a full tank of 91 octane, the battery connections are tight, and all the plug wires are connected properly.

with the gracious help of my neighbors, we tried push-starting it several times, but as soon as the clutch pops, the engine makes a horrible diesel-decompression sound and the tires just skid (maybe because of the wet ground)

i'd like to replace the plugs, wires, coil, dizzy, etc. but i'm hoping someone can help narrow it down. i will do my best to provide any additional info if needed.

thanks.

[uberschall]

anything helps. it's going to be cold and dark by the time i get home from class and get to work on this, i'd like to have a solid action plan laid out.

are there any fuses i should check? are the starter and the ignition on separate fuses by some chance? i wouldn't think a fuse had blown, it was running fine last night when i parked it and just wouldn't fire up this morning.

thanks for any help.

[Stu37363]

anything helps. it's going to be cold and dark by the time i get home from class and get to work on this, i'd like to have a solid action plan laid out.

are there any fuses i should check? are the starter and the ignition on separate fuses by some chance? i wouldn't think a fuse had blown, it was running fine last night when i parked it and just wouldn't fire up this morning.

thanks for any help.

ignition fuse is seperate, and its in the car, 75amp

[x_itchy_b_x]

your going to have to determine what element your missing.
you need spark, fuel and air for combustion. you should have air... check if you fuel system is functional and the fuses that run. check your ignition system and fuses that run it.

pull a spark plug wire off and hold it about a half inch from any grounded piece of metal in the bay and watch for an arch. if it does then you have spark.

for the fuel start by making sure the fuel pump turns on. I forget how quite a stock pump is so im not sure if you can just listen for a little humming.

hope you figure out whats wrong. the more details you supply the easier it is to figure out whats wrong.

[uberschall]

stu - i'll check the ignition fuse first thing.

itchy - i checked that all the plug wires were set, both battery terminals, engine ground, etc. i did assume that the fuel system is cool b/c it hasn't been acting up at all (sputtering, rough idle, stumbling at throttle). i will absolutely check the few things you suggested, starting with spark. i'll need someone to crank it while i hold the plug wire, right?

i appreciate the help, i'll post up my progress.

thanks alot!

[uberschall]

ignition fuse - ok
ecu fuse - ok

i pulled off one of the plug wires and it doesn't appear that i'm getting any spark.

what could possibly go bad overnight that would cut my spark? sheesh.

[95CelicaST]

distributor, ignitor, coil, ignition... you've got a few more things to check.

[uberschall]

distributor, ignitor, coil, ignition... you've got a few more things to check.

how do i check the distributor, ignitor, and coil? i've never had to do any of that before.

thanks!

[Bitter]

replace the cap and rotor, moisture can get under there and cause a no start pretty easily in ****ty damp cold weather.

[uberschall]

i'll see if i can find parts tomorrow...won't i have to reset the timing?

[uberschall]

actually, i just realized i don't know how to get those irritating plastic plug retainer clips off.

does anyone know how i can check the functionality of the coil and ignitor?

edit : is the coil integrated with the distributor, or is it a standalone?

This post has been edited by uberschall: Oct 12, 2007 - 8:02 AM

[garygarrett1]

I am having the same problem with mine so I feel your pain. If you have an autozone near by pull the distributor and the coil they should be able to test to make sure you are at least getting current flowing throug your wires.

[uberschall]

if you're curious how this is going for me, here's some strange news.

i got all ready to start cracking on it after work today, picked up some tools i left at the parents place, bought a new multimeter, etc. while i was at work yesterday, i went on celicatech and printed some wiring diagrams, trouble code guides, everything i could find. i decided to start by pulling fuses and resetting the ecu.

i put them back in, and just for sh!ts and giggles i tried the ignition. keep in mind it's been almost two days since i last tried starting it and the battery is run down to almost nothing.

the thing actually started.

second try, because it only turned over a couple times the first time. it cranked slow because of the low battery and it was idling very low (i think <600 rpm) but i gave it very gradual throttle and it spun back up to normal idle and i actually drove it around for 25 minutes to recharge the battery.

i'm impressed to say the least.

i'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to try it again and make sure, hopefully it wasn't just goofing around with me.

still makes me wonder what made it not start for two days, but i'm not going to complain now.

[uberschall]

back to the drawing board, thing didn't start again.

i'm going to be looking for codes and doing circuit checks.

see you in a little bit.

[95CelicaST]

Sad news..

I am down with the same issue right now.... again. I pulled my EFI relay and found that it is all rusty and covered in crap. It will work intermittently, but thats because the relay will make contact for a while... until I hit a bump or something and it will go out again. New relay is like 30 bucks... but you have checked them, right? If not, pull them out, and check continuity with your multimeter between the prongs as the diagram on the cap says.


edit in bold.

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Oct 15, 2007 - 10:05 AM

[uberschall]

okay, moving along then.

i pulled my efi relay. i'm supposed to be getting continuity across the blades as shown on top of the relay?



across the silver ones (horizontal in the picture above), right?

i read a resistance of 76 ohms across those terminals but the continuity buzzer reads "open".

i pulled the thing apart, and it looks pretty clean inside (no corrosion or anything)



i also pulled the starter fuse to check as a comparison (the starter is working fine) and i don't get continuity across the same terminals on that, either.

[95CelicaST]

If I am reading the EFI relay diagram properly, you should get continuity from the side prongs (the siver ones, not copper), but I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure, as mine looks like it was pulled from a 50yr old shipwreck...

[uberschall]

i'm going to say it's fine because the resistance value is nominal for a relay.

you won't read continuity on the relay until 12vdc is applied, anyway.

i'm going to try replacing the cap and rotor.

stupid car.

[uberschall]

nix the cap and rotor, if it were burned up, the thing would never start.

anybody have other ideas? i'm going to see if my neighbor can help me check for spark again.

this is such a bummer, man. i love this car, but right now....

[uberschall]

the only thing i know so far is that the problem is intermittent, and seems to be directly proportional to the time of day/humidity. it didn't start yesterday morning, but i got it running around 2 pm.

i drove it to my parents house and back (30min, no trouble) and to and from class (parked for 4 hours, also no trouble) after that. when it decides to start it runs fine (no indication of an issue).

it didn't start again this morning, so i had to ride my bike to class and got there super late. i tried it again when i got back a couple minutes ago, still no dice. it's not raining but it looks like it might.

i really need some insight here, please somebody help me out.

[95CelicaST]

so the moisture in the air is causing a short somewhere?

Did you check your grounds? Make sure your coil wire off the distributor is plugged in all the way to the coil?


This is a strange issue indeed..

[uberschall]

i checked every connection i could. i live in an apartemnt complex, so i don't have a garage...and since the weather has been rather damp and cold lately, whatever is causing the issue is rearing it's ugly head regularly but not predictably enough that i could get it to my parent's place (read: garage) to isolate that variable.

i had aaa tow it to a nearby shop earlier this afternoon and rode my bike to and from school. the killer is that i have two jobs and 3 classes that i can't default on in the meantime...so there aren't alot of opportunities for me to devote great amounts of time to figuring out what's wrong with it.

i would have liked to figure it out myself and do the repairs myself, but right now having a car that does what i need it to is more important than the pride.

the car hasn't been in the shop since i bought it, hopefully it turns out okay.

thanks for the input everyone, i'll keep posting.

[nightryder]

judging by the randomness of the "non-starts", it sounds like a ****ty electrical connection. follow back from your distributor to the igniter and igniter coil. Cant remember which, but one is sitting on top of the other.




jiggle the connection on the right side while someone tries to turn it over. there is often a loose connection here in our cars, I know of lots of guys that have had this same issue.




if that doesn't work try pulling the plug out and slightly bending the pins to ensure a strong connection. This was all I had to do and the problem was fixed. good luck.

[95CelicaST]

ignitor is on top of the coil.

It might just be that you don't have a good enough ground somewhere. Thats where my money is. We'll find out soon though.

[uberschall]

well, it was the distributor. it had actually melted on top and wasn't consistently tranferring power. i couldn't see it while it was on the car.

i would be ashamed to admit how much money i could have saved by acting on my hunch to replace it from the get-go, but i would prefer to simply pass along the valuable lesson i have learned:

if you have an idea, the best thing to do is act on it...the worst that could happen is that you have to come up with another idea.

it's fixed now, and at least i have that peace of mind. arguably, i've been extremely busy with work and school lately, so as i said before, it's just as well that i got it fixed and it's one less thing to worry about.

i'd still like to thank everyone that pitched in along the way.

rough week!

[95CelicaST]

Awesome. Thats good to hear. I'm glad it wasn't something a lot bigger... like an electrical problem.

[uberschall]

... like an electrical problem.

upside to everything!