Turbocharging vs Supercharging Options

[94Toy]

Okay so I know what the differences are between a turbo and a supercharger my question is which one is actually better, since a supercharger is belt driven would that be harder on the engine than a turbo, and is it just as easy to up the boost on a supercharger as on a turbo, because I know with a turbo you just mess around with a boost controller, but since superchargers are belt driven do you have to upgrade the pulley that they have, or do you just buy a boost controller just like a turbo. And what exacly is an aftercooler, I've heard somebody say something about these with supercharger. Sorry for all the questions I am just really thinking tonight. I dunno why?

And I also know that they do not make a supercharger for our cars I was just wondering.

[Chrobis]

A supercharger and turbocharger work on the same idea, compressed air contains more oxygen. Turbo's use exhaust gas, supercharger is a compressor driven off of a belt, like you said. Therefore a turbo has to "spool" up before its effective, and a supercharger is "always on". Really there is not a better one... But a turbo can always be made bigger! I really dont know much about a supercharger, and how you increase boost, or if its a one setting type of thing. It really is driver's choice.

Examples of extreme turbo's and superchargers!

WRX STI Pumping out 300hp out of a 4 banger! thats a wow in my opinion.

Mercedes AMG Engine, 496hp, 516lb ft torgue! out of a supercharged V8. Thats the power of a V12....

so in conclusion they both can give you massive power, like I said its driver's choice...

[Striking4]

Personally I think that turbos are better. The supercharger is somewhat parasitic because it takes energy from the engine to get the belt and the supercharger moving. Whereas the turbo does not use any engine power to do its work. The demand caused by the supercharger may be small but it is still that many horses that are doing other work and not on the ground.

[Mynzeyes]

yes. what he said. super is belt, and turbo is exhaust driven...basically, w/ a turbo...the air comes out of the engine, through the manifold, spools the turbo...the compressed air then goes through the piping, hopefully to the INTERCOOLER(which i think is what you were referin to..), which cools the compressed air, then into the throttle body...

side note: basically...the Intercooler is to cool the compressed air...it acts much the same way as the radiator works....anytime you compress air, you get heat...and we all know that heat + engine = baaaad.

now then, back to class..

whereas, generally, w/ a supercharger, the air comes in the intake, then into the supercharger, where it is compressed in roughly the same way as a turbo...then it goes either through piping, through an intercooler, into the throttle body...or, in some cases, it will go straight to the throttle body w/o any cooling.

now then...as for upping boost...w/ the turbo, things such as a downpipe, exhaust, etc, that kinda stuff can help out on boost numbers, also can help on the time it takes to spool the turbo. also, the boost controller is also a very effective method. FYI, iono if you know, but all a turbo timer does is really let the engine cool down after use...you turn the car off and get otu...but the car stays on, and shuts down after X amount of time...but anyway....

now then, upping the boost on a blower is different...you do need to change the pulley. now, you can either get a smaller supercharger pulley...which makes the belt spin at the same speed, but pulls the blower into more rotations...oooooor...you can get a larger crank pulley, which will spin the blower faster, thus upping the boost....um...a boost controller will do nothing for a supercharged engine...

um...i think that's it...anymore questiosn, just holla...

-John-

[97sccelica]

a turbo charger causes more stress to an engine than a SC.

an SC will always outlast a TC.

SC's generally have 50%-60% efficiency, when matched properly to the engine.

TC's generally have 60%-70% efficiency, when matched properly to the engine.

there is no lag with a SC, if sized properly, a turbo will have little lag.

generally, the saying with SC's is that it takes power to make power. imho, i dont think an SC is worth while on an i4 engine. to up the boost, you will need new belts and a new pulley, with aTC, you can get a MBC and adjust the power with a screw

[snadman]

How about just go with what floats ur boat.

[Guest_Matthew_*]

i made this to help explain how a turbocharger works


all the cylinders have the exhaust put out to a turbo manifold which has a bracket or flange on it to collect all the exhaust energy. that in turn spins a wheel then the extra air is put out the end then it gouts to the downpipe and out the exhaust system.

the wheel that is spun first is connected to another wheel which has a port on the side which you connect your intake to. then that air is compressed and shot out the bottom through some piping to the intercooler which is cooled by the outside air which is hitting the intercooler then up into the engine bay again into the intake manifold and back into the engine





This post has been edited by GT2GT4: Aug 14, 2003 - 3:19 AM

[3TST]

I knew I had some info on this somewhere - Tuning Guide magazine (French).

As has been said before:
The turbo works off Exhaust Gases.
The Supercharger (Compressor) works of a Pulley and belt.

The Supercharger gives you a much better acceleration because it does not have any lag like a Turbo. Having said that the Turbo gives you better high end performance.

Approx. hp figues (and I mean approximate) are that a Turbo will give you up to @150hp where as a Supercharger will give you up to @100hp.

As far as cost is concerned, I think that you will find that a Supercharger setup is cheaper than a Turbo setup. (Less parts).

Another point to consider is that Turbo setups already exist for our cars where as noone has gone the Supercharger route, therefore info. is available on Turbo kits and setup.

I guess it basically comes down to how you drive your car and what you want to gain.

[BlackSTX]

[97sccelica]

yes there are "lagless" turbos out there, but only when put on the proper sized engine.

[94Toy]

I know what an intercooler is. I was wondering what an aftercooler on a supercharger was for.

[NEVERSTOP]

If you want reliable power go with a charger.. my G/F has one on her civic and its pretty nice but not insane power.

If you want huge HP ratings go the turbo route.. just check plugs and oil alot - 1st signs of trouble will be there.

As for not making a charger for our cars.. that's not entirely true.. If you wanna charge it get a 4agze for it, charger comes stock and I belive TRD make an upgraded one but not sure about that.

Aftercooler explination:
The most effective means of reducing forced induction air intake temperatures is by using an air-to-water Aftercooler. This superior air-cooling technology is proven to reduce air intake temperatures by as much as 200ºF with minimal pressure drop. Vortech Aftercoolers provide cooler, denser air charges allowing more timing, more boost, reduced chances of engine damage due to detonation and excellent driveability. The Maxflow Power Cooler utilizes a closed-loop water circulation system with a front mounted heat exchanger that allows for effective street operation with minimal boost loss. Gains of 25 to 100 additional horsepower are possible depending on the application, engine, and boost level. This system also allows the use of ice water for drag racing providing even greater performance. Installation is easy, stock ground clearance is maintained, and the optimal placement does not restrict engine radiator airflow.

Each system features an exclusive double pass, low restriction, air to water core, Setrab heat exchanger, heavy duty water pump, molded plastic polymer water tank designed to hold water or water and ice, and all necessary mounting brackets, hoses, and supporting hardware. Battery relocation is required on most applications.

[Hanyo]

Hello everyone.

I own a 97 celica st and i'm thinking about turbo or supercharging. I'm tired of turning my head and pretending not to hearing some guy in a prizm rev-me-up and try to run me at the light. All my friends think its fast because of the way it looks. I just need a little more power maybe 50 or so more horse. I'm not expecting much, I know I wont stand a chance against a Engine swaped celica with a 3SGE. ( my main concern) Will the celica still pass smog with force induction? And where can i find a supercharger? I need something with very little mantainence and doesn't kill my engine. Another thing that worries me, is that my celica is an Automatic, how will that work under boost (will it hold up)? i wont need to let off the gas to shift gears so do i need a b.o.v? Is it okay to run the s/c turbo with everything else stock? ( i know i need to upgrade my injectors ECU Fuel pump ect. but i need to slowly upgrade) I'm a noob with all this performance stuff, but i have worked on cars b4 like replacing an engine.

Thanx alot guys. sorry 4 the long post

[97sccelica]

[celica3sgte]

I think superchargers are limiting. You can only boost as high as the biggest pulley made for the application. Even then the system will produce so much heat I don't know if it's worth it. Check out supercharged civics on the b18 motor(gsr) with a 9 lb pulley. They run low 14's or high 13's. Say you install a drag 3 turbo kit on the gsr motor, you will run low 13's easily, on a safe amount of boost. The engine is intercooled, and it's safe to run a large amount of boost. I'm for TURBOS all the way. With the right setup you can feed the engine more and more boost. Why haven't they made a supercharger for the 6th gen celica yet? Why didn't the 3sgte come stock with a supercharger? Not enough power vs. efficiency.

[3TST]

Where can I find information about/on the 4agze SC?

[Hanyo]

The 4Agze sc comes out of a Mr2 or a gts corolla. BIG thanx for the replys. How can someone install a sc from a corolla on to the 7afe engine? Is there more room on the crankchaft pully for the sc? mounting brackets? what else is needed? All i can think about is the air hose that connects the intake to the sc. are there any vacuum lines electronics?

[Guest_Matthew_*]

i would estimate that it would be about the same cost as swapping in a 4agze into your ST.

you should IM

mynzeyes.

he has done the 4agze swap.. its not running now but he is pretty smart at ST's and all celicas in general. i would help but i dont know much about ST's.

[7aek]

ppl ppl ppl~~~ superchargers werent made~~ but they are on the way~~~ rippmods developed a sc for the camry or corolla?? i forgot. i know one of these hab the 5sfe as well. they are testin fittings on the 6th gen celi.~~~ cost??? yes~~~ pretty high~~~ 3000 but is complete~~~ not like the burien turbo kit.

[KAMiX]

A couple of ppl have mentioned the HP differences between SC and Turbo setups. The important point is that superchargers will perform better on big engines as in V8+, and turbos are much better suited to smaller engines.

That said, the best by far would be a super AND turbo charged engine.. but that is kind of out of the question for the celica

Since you were asking about the celica... Like most everyone else I will say go the 3s-gte! If you are not interested in swaps, get a turbo kit for your engine.