identifying the year of an engine Options

[JasonX]

is there anywhere on the engine that says what year it was made? I am considering getting used Japanese engine and I heard the 5sfe did not always have the same horsepower. 94-95 was the only time it was 135hp any other year was 130. So, if the engine is all by itself, how can I find out what year it is?


Thanks

[stetsonaw]

piece of advice, if you are going to get a japanese engine, get a 3s, if you are looking to do a swap. if not, then, well, can't help you there.

[JasonX]

piece of advice, if you are going to get a japanese engine, get a 3s, if you are looking to do a swap. if not, then, well, can't help you there.

3sgte?

[stetsonaw]

3rd gen 3sge is 177 bhp. i plan on turboing mine instead of swaping, due to the 3sge being N/A, i can get higher gains.
so, turbo'd 3sge would be faster than 3sgte.

This post has been edited by stetsonaw: Dec 13, 2007 - 11:14 AM

[Kadett]

3rd gen 3sge is 177 bhp. i plan on turboing mine instead of swaping, due to the 3sge being N/A, i can get higher gains.
so, turbo'd 3sge would be faster than 3sgte.

There's a limit in how far you can go with HC pistons. But the side feed manifold with ACIS and the better cams should give you an advantage if you go with LC pistons.

@Jasonx:

Like stetsonaw said: If your going to get a engine out of Japan, at least try to source a 3S-GE, you wont regret it.

[stetsonaw]

kadett, you lost me with all the piston talk, what are those HC and LC pistons found in, and can you elaborate on them for me? and what's ACIS?

[JasonX]

3rd gen 3sge is 177 bhp. i plan on turboing mine instead of swaping, due to the 3sge being N/A, i can get higher gains.
so, turbo'd 3sge would be faster than 3sgte.

There's a limit in how far you can go with HC pistons. But the side feed manifold with ACIS and the better cams should give you an advantage if you go with LC pistons.

@Jasonx:

Like stetsonaw said: If your going to get a engine out of Japan, at least try to source a 3S-GE, you wont regret it.

3rd gen 3sge: what years is that? also it's not the beams, right? how about modifications? does just mount straight in with no change to ecu or harness? the shop will be doing it so i don't want to labor to sky rocket. thanks so much

[Kadett]

HC=High Compression (3S-GE is 10.3)
LC = Low Compression (3S-GTE is 8.5)

Lower compression engines can handle more boost safely.

About the ACIS: Cant really explain it in words. Something to do with the volumetric control of the intake runners. Here's a pic:





@JasonX: I believe the 3S-GE is a straight in swap. Tranny (manual) is a direct bolt on (try to source the JDM/EU transmisson, it has a longer diff so also longer gears = higher mph per gear).

This post has been edited by Kadett: Dec 13, 2007 - 12:31 PM

[JasonX]

HC=High Compression (3S-GE is 10.3)
LC = Low Compression (3S-GTE is 8.5)

Lower compression engines can handle more boost safely.

About the ACIS: Cant really explain it in words. Something to do with the volumetric control of the intake runners. Here's a pic:





@JasonX: I believe the 3S-GE is a straight in swap. Tranny (manual) is a direct bolt on (try to source the JDM/EU transmisson, it has a longer diff so also longer gears = higher mph per gear).

can I keep my automatic transmission for the time being? Also i still need info on what year is 3rd gen. I don't think shop would know if I just say 3rd gen. Also is it beams or not. thanks again.

[Rusty]

http://www.turbomr2.com/MR2/Reference/TVIS/TVIS.htm
for more info on ACIS

simple to see if you have vvt-i
1. open hood
2. look at engine for 'beams', if not no vvt-i

also you could get a thicker head gasket?

This post has been edited by Rusty: Dec 13, 2007 - 1:59 PM

[Kadett]

ITs a regular 94-99 3S-GE engine. BEAMS engine was produced from late 1997 onwards. From what I know the auto tranny of a 5S-FE is the same as the 3S-GE version. The 'Auto tranny' 3s-ge had a different intake cam to have more low end torque and sacrificing high end HP (had 'only' 165-169bhp)

I think most engine would be sold with the 3S-GE tranny attached.

[JasonX]

ITs a regular 94-99 3S-GE engine. BEAMS engine was produced from late 1997 onwards. From what I know the auto tranny of a 5S-FE is the same as the 3S-GE version. The 'Auto tranny' 3s-ge had a different intake cam to have more low end torque and sacrificing high end HP (had 'only' 165-169bhp)

I think most engine would be sold with the 3S-GE tranny attached.

one last question on this engine: just to make sure, no need to change ecu or wiring harness, right?
thanks a bunch, i'll contact the shop today to see if they got it.

[Rusty]

where are you getting you turbo kit from for your 3S-GE? link?

[Kadett]

ITs a regular 94-99 3S-GE engine. BEAMS engine was produced from late 1997 onwards. From what I know the auto tranny of a 5S-FE is the same as the 3S-GE version. The 'Auto tranny' 3s-ge had a different intake cam to have more low end torque and sacrificing high end HP (had 'only' 165-169bhp)

I think most engine would be sold with the 3S-GE tranny attached.

one last question on this engine: just to make sure, no need to change ecu or wiring harness, right?
thanks a bunch, i'll contact the shop today to see if they got it.

No you will need the 3S-GE ECU and harness.

[JasonX]

the shop says they can't find a listing for the 3sge engine. They say according to all the celicas they say there's no 3sge. They said there listing either for the 3sgte or 5sfe. any ideas on how they search. wouldn't they just search for japanese 94-99 celica?

[Gary]

Like I told you on C.tech, if they said they can import you a used 5sfe engine from Japan, they don't know what they are doing. It just doesn't exist.
And if they told you they can't find a listing for 3sge engine, you should find another shop.

[stetsonaw]

as far as a turbo kit goes, it's a slow process, right now i'm trying to source a good ct26, and i'll go from there.

[JasonX]

Like I told you on C.tech, if they said they can import you a used 5sfe engine from Japan, they don't know what they are doing. It just doesn't exist.
And if they told you they can't find a listing for 3sge engine, you should find another shop.

thank you so much for opening my eyes. I almost bought the used 5sfe that probably had way too many miles on it. i think i'm gonna go with getting my own engine rebuilt route. 3sge seems like over my budget with having to change ecu, harness, and tranny. thanks a lot.

[JasonX]

this is the part my possible engine rebuilding place uses:
http://www.perfectengine.com/engine_parts_s/6.htm

[Rusty]

this might help on ACIS...
ACIS Info

[JasonX]

going to academy automotive instead. they back their rebuild engines with 5 year/100K. let you guys know how it went.

[Rusty]

I actually wonder what is up with my engine

Gen 3

The third generation 3S-GE was produced from 1994 to 1999. Power output was increased to 177 bhp (132 kW, 180 PS) over the gen 2, while torque figures stayed the same. It received a minor revision in 1996 for emissions (EGR) which reduced power output to 173 bhp (129 kW, 173 PS) @ 7000 rpm

[Kadett]

Its a 3rd gen



Thats the ACIS part. It has 4 butterfly valves (like your TB) in it I believe.

BTW from the looks of it you have a ST205 radiator in your car?! Or oversea's 3S-GE GT Celica's had bigger radiators as stock. Mine was a thick/thin as the ST version.

This post has been edited by Kadett: Dec 15, 2007 - 5:01 AM

[Bitter]

year will be on the vin tag on the engine, left of engine near trans bell housing. (the side the oil filter is on)

[Rusty]

As far as I know its the factory ST202 radiator

how far down for the tag?

[Bitter]

its about midway on the block, the block itself. look at the front by the trans and you'll either see it or need to wipe away a bunch of grime and gunk, it'll be there riveted to the block. the vin on the engine will match the vin from the donor car.

[Rusty]

how I've lost 20kW for a car thats only done 60 000km and is stock?

[Kadett]

how I've lost 20kW for a car thats only done 60 000km and is stock?
[/quote]

How hot was it that day (HKS pod sucking in HOT air could adversily effect your engine performance), what was the dyno bumber precisly? 110kw? Was this number at the wheels or recalculated (drive train loss) number at the crank?

Because 110kw to the wheels would be an accurate number for the 3S-GE.

[Rusty]

110kW
120kW at the flywheel

so I've only lost 10kW (mine you I didn't go to limiter)
and that could be what you said conditions, also its slightly lower in compression 85 (% I'm guessing -AA) how do I increase compression? rings and head gasket?

well that info is a bit misleading then isn't it?

THANK YOU

[crandsberry]

As far as I know its the factory ST202 radiator

how far down for the tag?

The TVIS system really wasnt all that cool: Youve got a set of narrow intake runners for the low RPMs (means faster moving air, means more air packs into the cylinders), and youve got a set of big runners for the high RPMs (means engine is hungary for air and your want it to flow like crazy), and youve got some flaps to switch between the two.

The ACIS system was a whole other tactic i terms of naturally aspirated power. You know Yamaha built the heads of the later generations of 3SGE and they dont mess around.
Stands for Acoustically Controlled Iduction system, the idea was to keep the runners nice and fat so the engine breathes easy, but to harness the huge sound wave generated by the intake vavles slamming shut at the end of the intake stroke.
At low RPMs, when those valves slam shut they send a sound wave, a pulse of compressed air, back up the intake runners. The manifold was designed so that the pulse could travel up the runner, bounce off a flat surface (that second plenum you see) and return back down the runner and reach the valve just as it opened again. That means each cylinder is getting burst of comressed air, generated by its own valvetrain.
High RPMs, flaps close off that second plenum, and business continues as usual.

this site is ok, but its just written by some guy, and its a bit inaccurate

[Kadett]

120kw at the flywheel where it was 129kw when it came from the factory is a nice number dude! Compression has a lot to do with the loss of power. Maybe the previous owner did a lot of cold engine->high reving and thus damaging the engine a bit worn piston/rings etc(lower compression)

[Rusty]

is there a way to tune the ACIS, because look and that huge dip.

it has something to do with throttle position and speed(?)
does it have different stages?

I dont think I'll do a rebuild but new gaskets and rings or is that a lot of $$$$ for nothing?

lol its pretty good the engine has the same kw at the wheels as a gen 2 engine has at the flywheel

[Kadett]

Dont really know about tuning/modifying the ACIS assembly.

About the 2nd gen. It has 20bhp less then the 3rd gen but all considered, on the road you wont find it that much of a difference. Torque level is exactly the same and went head-head with a 5th gen 3S-GE and only got a bit away from him (2meters difference or so). But like I said, 110kw/150bhp at the wheels is about standard. Most Celica Club UK members get those numbers from there engine's. About the dip @ 4k rpm. I never felt a dip at higher rpms. It would only go higher, faster in the revs when WOT.

[Bitter]

yes, you should be able to control ACIS, its a vacuum diaphragm which you can use a simple vacuum solenoid and rpm window switch to control. use a rpm window switch from a nitrous kit and a vacuum solenoid like what would control the EGR system (yank one from a junked camry). with a little knowhow you'll be able to set the ACIS opening point to a specific rpm and even set it to only open at WOT (with a nitrous WOT switch).

[Rusty]

yeah thats what i was wanting, any links to give me more of an idea?

[Bitter]

sorry no, just get a wot switch, rpm window switch, and instead of wiring them to a nitrous solenoid wire them to a vacuum solenoid. downside is acis will only work at WOT. acis is more finely controled via pcm than just wot and an rpm. its via engine load, throttle positon, and rpm. i think pcm may also control how much it opens at certain conditions as well, i havent found a whole lot about it.

[saleeka]

if they said they can import you a used 5sfe engine from Japan, they don't know what they are doing. It just doesn't exist.

Actually, 5S-FE's can be found in a few different vehicles in Japan- the Harrier, Scepter, Camry Gracia and Mark II Qualis (all share a common platform with different North American Camry generations).