Investigating lowering Options

[Mangozac]

Hi guys,

Following on from my thread here I've been investigating lowering the Celi. I've done a bunch of searching and reading but still am a bit confused. I'll be doing all the installation myself, just need to get the parts.

So I'd prefer to get some Tein S-techs but just for kicks I went and saw a suspension place across from my work to see what they reckon. Note that they generally seem to raise more than lower - most of their clientele is 4WD owners looking to jack their cars up.
Anyway he quoted me AU$154 (about $120 US) a pair for a set of King Springs which he said would lower about 34mm. Fair enough.
I then asked about some struts. He recommended some KYB performance struts (dunno which ones) and they were about $250 each! So that's like $1000 just on the struts! For that kind of price it would be worth getting coilovers!

So I have a couple of questions:

1. How much should a set of Tein S-Techs cost me?
2. The Celi is 8 1/2 years old - is it really necessary that I replace the struts also when I lower?
3. I can't really afford more than about $500-600 on the project so if I can't do it properly for that price I won't bother at all.

The listed Tein dealer around here is Maroochy Car Sound, who I don't believe is the cheapest place to buy stuff I'll give them a call today and check it out....

Thanks,

Zac

[bccentaur3]

Since you want tein s techs you can drop the car on some kyb gr2's. They are oem replacements struts. And yes you should replace your struts when lowering it, for the reason the car is old and you want to do the job once. Its a good idea to change out your strut mounts too. All in all since you are doing it yourself like a lot of us 6th geners it not going to cost you more than 600$ in parts. Since you are in AU I doubt you have any rust on your car. So you wont go breaking tools left and right. lol.

[Supersprynt]

KYB doesn't make any performance struts for the Celica, besides, that's way overpricing for KYB.

Check out the parts database for more ideas.

[Mangozac]

Since you want tein s techs you can drop the car on some kyb gr2's. They are oem replacements struts. And yes you should replace your struts when lowering it, for the reason the car is old and you want to do the job once. Its a good idea to change out your strut mounts too. All in all since you are doing it yourself like a lot of us 6th geners it not going to cost you more than 600$ in parts. Since you are in AU I doubt you have any rust on your car. So you wont go breaking tools left and right. lol.

Ahh but I live on the beach so rust is actually a problem. That said, she has no rust anywhere (that I know of) yet

KYB doesn't make any performance struts for the Celica, besides, that's way overpricing for KYB.

Check out the parts database for more ideas.

OK I don't remember exactly what they were but as you say, it's still ridiculously overpriced. I totally forgot about the parts database! Thanks.

[punkuup5150]

try andysautosport.com i think for the whoel set up shouldnt cost more then 4-500 if im right plus if u belong to a team u get a discount and if ur not on a car club team ect and u know a friend who is and has a website have them add u and ur car for a day or 2 and get the discount

oh i just researched it 433.40 before taxes and shipping and if u get the team discount its less but i know u can find the springs cheeper then 201.00 i think ive seen people selling them on here for 170 ish

Car Club Discount Members Receive:

15%
Parts manufactured by Andy's Auto Sport

10%
All other outside parts



This post has been edited by punkuup5150: Dec 17, 2007 - 11:56 PM

[Mangozac]

oh i just researched it 433.40 before taxes and shipping and if u get the team discount its less but i know u can find the springs cheeper then 201.00 i think ive seen people selling them on here for 170 ish

Thanks dude it's a nice thought but shipping costs from the US are nasty for big heavy stuff like that

It sucks that all this kind of stuff is so much more expensive here!

[an02]

it all depends on the height which you are dropping it to .. if your going to a maximum of 2 inches , i say it'll be fine ..

i had 2 inch pedders springs on for about a year or so , and they've never done me wrong , this was all done with the stock struts and what not .. plus my car is a 95' model ..

anything lower ?! i'd suggest coilovers !!

hope that helps

[Mangozac]

it all depends on the height which you are dropping it to .. if your going to a maximum of 2 inches , i say it'll be fine ..

i had 2 inch pedders springs on for about a year or so , and they've never done me wrong , this was all done with the stock struts and what not .. plus my car is a 95' model ..

anything lower ?! i'd suggest coilovers !!

hope that helps

Thanks mate. I't'll only be 1 to 1.5" (preferably the latter). What was the handling like when you just swapped the springs? For me improving the handling is just as important as improving the looks.

[thespacepanda]

For a 1" to 1.5" drop with performance gains might I suggest the Eibach Sportlines. They do increase the stiffness of the ride and provide a 1.5" drop all around. I have the Pro-Kits on mine but they're a lot more expensive for a very stiff ride. I think the Sportlines are the way to go.

[k-weaver]

I just lowered mine and spent less than $500. I got my KYB's from http://importrp.com/cart.php I believe they were about 50 bucks a piece. After shipping it came out to be like $230. I went with the S-Techs and got them for $140 on ebay. Had to order some parts from the dealer which set me back about $50 and after the 4 wheel alignment that brings my grand total to about $490.

[an02]

it all depends on the height which you are dropping it to .. if your going to a maximum of 2 inches , i say it'll be fine ..

i had 2 inch pedders springs on for about a year or so , and they've never done me wrong , this was all done with the stock struts and what not .. plus my car is a 95' model ..

anything lower ?! i'd suggest coilovers !!

hope that helps

Thanks mate. I't'll only be 1 to 1.5" (preferably the latter). What was the handling like when you just swapped the springs? For me improving the handling is just as important as improving the looks.

no worries dude !! the handling ?! .. beautiful !! it really was a perfect match for our aussie roads .. bumps and pot holes = no problems ..

its all up to you on how low you wanna go .. personally , i wouldnt go with 1"-1.5" you'd hardley notice anything , then once your use to the look , you'll want to go even more lower .. 2" was ok for a while .. anything lower then that and you'll have less travel from your shocks , which means your shocks will be hitting metal on metal .. over bumps and holes it'll feel like you have no shocks at all .. trust me i went 3" on stock shocks , felt like the car was gonna snap in half ..

now i'm at about 4" maybe lower .. LOL's , but thats on coilovers ..

hope that helps even more !!

[Mangozac]

After talking to Rom (DSRTFX) I'm now seriously considering some D2 coilovers so that I can adjust it for the perfect height. The driveway where I stay on the Gold Coast (when at uni) is too steep so I could even raise it a little when at uni and then drop it when I'm on uni holidays at the Sunny Coast.

I've got a new contact through a client of mine so I'll call him today to see about the D2s. For what it seems a set of springs and shocks will cost me the D2s seem really good value.

[an02]

After talking to Rom (DSRTFX) I'm now seriously considering some D2 coilovers so that I can adjust it for the perfect height. The driveway where I stay on the Gold Coast (when at uni) is too steep so I could even raise it a little when at uni and then drop it when I'm on uni holidays at the Sunny Coast.

I've got a new contact through a client of mine so I'll call him today to see about the D2s. For what it seems a set of springs and shocks will cost me the D2s seem really good value.

maybe rom's selling his ?! lol's .. he is the person to ask for when it comes to info on shot shocks .. he is the master !! lol's i know ur gunna see this rom !!

D2's on maximum height would probably be around a 2" drop from stock .. but that means tightening the spring .. which means your guna be changing spring loads and what not ..

[Mangozac]

maybe rom's selling his ?! lol's .. he is the person to ask for when it comes to info on shot shocks .. he is the master !! lol's i know ur gunna see this rom !!

D2's on maximum height would probably be around a 2" drop from stock .. but that means tightening the spring .. which means your guna be changing spring loads and what not ..

This is all getting too hard! I don't want to go any more than 2" at this stage but it sounds like even the D2's aren't going to be that suitable

Might have to chat to some more people and see what they reckon - maybe just lowering springs would work ok.

[NGHTKD]

i got 2" pedders and they the perfect height i rekon. like its a perfect balance - not too low but still lower enough to recognise, and the handling is just an awesome, so stable!!! but pedders are the lowest off the shelf spring in Aussie for our cars and are priced reasonably!!!

[Mangozac]

i got 2" pedders and they the perfect height i rekon. like its a perfect balance - not too low but still lower enough to recognise, and the handling is just an awesome, so stable!!! but pedders are the lowest off the shelf spring in Aussie for our cars and are priced reasonably!!!

Hey Callum do you know what the actual name for the springs was - Sports Ryder? How much did you pay?

I'm thinking that something easy to get like that may be the go. Plus, as you say, 2" seems to be the right height....

[NGHTKD]

-SportsRyder
-$340 for just springs, but they may vary in price. plus i got mate to install em so way cheaper, i think its closer to $600installed.

[Mangozac]

-SportsRyder
-$340 for just springs, but they may vary in price. plus i got mate to install em so way cheaper, i think its closer to $600installed.

Cool thanks man. You didn't do the shocks also? Was there a noticeable difference in the handling with the new springs?

[NGHTKD]

i didnt bother doing shocks and theres no sign of the stock ones giving up.
the handling... bloody awesome. like i remember the bodyroll of the stock car and its reduced so much, car becomes so much more stable and combined with the torqy (but powerless haha) engine it has surprised quite a few cars through the turns. suspension has been the most 'satisfying' mod ive done!

[Mangozac]

OK update time.

I went into Pedders yesterday and sussed thing out. A set of Sports Ryder springs will cost $340 + installation (but I'm doing that myself). They seem pretty decent quality, and drop 50mm (~2"). Everyone else seems to recommend them also.

But anyway I'm booked in for a 14-point suspension check on Thursday. That will give me a report on the condition of my current struts, etc. If they say that I need new struts then I reckon I might as well go the whole hog and get the D2s. Otherwise I'll prolly just get the sports ryders.

The only downside to the D2s is that the suppliers don't open up until the 7th of January so I wouldn't be able to get them until after the holidays. I wanted to get it all done before I go back to work so that if worst comes to worst I can have the car in bits for a couple of days...

What do you guys with D2s have to say about the quality? Would you recommend them? Is there any nasty surprises? From what I have read the initial ones D2 made were a bit dodgy but they seem to have sorted the quality issues out now.

[an02]

to me D2's are perfect .. they are height adjustable , which means you'll be able to lower and raise your car depending on your mood !! lol's , after having gone from pedders springs to D2 coilovers , i'd never get a spring set ever again .. the freedom and the different amount of settings you'd be able to change are what makes me love D2's so much .. quality is awesome , and the color is hot (in my opinion) ..

but i guess each person has their favorites ..

This post has been edited by an02: Dec 23, 2007 - 8:21 AM

[Mangozac]

Next update!

Got a 24 point safety check at Pedders yesterday. In my opinion it was well worth the 14 bucks it cost - I now have in my hands a report on all of my suspension and steering systems.

The car has 240,000kms and has never had the shocks replaced so that's their first recommendation (even though they are in quite an acceptable condition).

The front suspension lower bushes and radius bushes are pretty worn and recommended to be replaced, same with the rear lower bushes. No big deal, they are pretty cheap.

The steering gear has the comment "bad internal knocking/rack mounts worn/movement". I've been aware of that for a while and had forgotten about it. I don't think it's that big a deal, they quoted me $600 to fix it. I may check it out and replace it myself.

Plus I need new tyres. They have really bad edge wear (possible to do with the soft bushes) and I was aware that they were pretty stuffed. No big deal. I expect a new set to be less than $600.

So it's pretty much definite that I'll get a set of coilovers now. The downside is that I have to wait another week for all of the suppliers to open back up after xmas before I can get pricing. I'm leaning towards the D2s but I'll get a price on the Teins just for kicks.

The problem is that I have to watch that I don't spend too much money - I need to keep enough to get me through another year of uni!

[Mangozac]

Got a price yesterday on some coilovers. My supplier recommends the G4 brand (as distributed by Just Jap http://www.justjap.com/g4trackinfo.htm). Apparently they are made in the same factory as the D2s, except they are blue, not purple.

From what I can tell they seem to be better supported as Just Jap stock all replacement parts, etc.

The price is right, AU$1375 for all four coilovers, delivered to my door. I'm gonna get them ordered tomorrow and should only take about a week or so to arrive.

I also got a quote on Tein Super streets. $2600 and a 4-8 week lead time as they don't stock any in the country!

I figure that the Taiwanese units should suit me fine. I mean it's not like I'm racing or drifting or anything heavy like that. It's just a daily driver that I like to drive a little more agressively than the usual person.

[bccentaur3]

You could also go with Ksport they are made by the same manufacturer as d2s and g4 but are orange instead of the blue and purple.

[uberschall]

if i might make a brief contribution:

i happen to own BOTH an oem shock/tein s.tech setup AND tein super streets. in fact, i just switched from the coilovers to the oem kit today, as i'm planning to rebuild my ss dampers and wanted to save them the punishment of the detroit winter (freexing temperatures, and salt on the roads...injustices you hopefully never encounter).

the ss dampers are FANTASTIC. worth every penny you might pay for them. i race autocross, and the super streets put the celica in a handling class all it's own. while the car is at a power disadvantage to most of it's competitors, the suspension (and good tire choices) more than make up for it. the ability to corner-weight the car and dial in the appropriate height/damping combination is awesome. they not only handle fantastically, the ride is surprisingly livable day-to-day as well.

however, if you're not racing.... the s.techs are plenty of a drop for anyone who drives more than perfectly-paved carparks (i have snow to contend with, too...but honestly, lowering a car too much makes driving a hassle), and the ride is even better. if you are looking for aesthetics alone, i would highly suggest the s.techs, as they're far more economical than any coilover setup (even with new shocks) and ride better than the oem springs OR fancy adjustables.

that's my $.02, anyway.

[Mangozac]

if i might make a brief contribution:

Thanks uberschall, really appreciated.

For me performance is as important as aesthetics. Comfort is still important but second to the first two. As I've said before they are really only for street use (although I'd love to try the celi on a track some day).

The reasons I decided against the s.techs was that a) they seem overly expensive and b) they don't seem to give a noticeable enough drop. I'd like about 40-50mm on both the front and back. It seemed like the Pedders Sportsryder springs were the best bet if I only had to do the springs but the shocks need replacing too, thus the reason I am leaning towards coilovers.

Whilst everybody raves about the ss dampers, and they aren't too ridiculously priced, I'm hesitant about them because:
a) For warranty problems they have to be sent back to Japan to be rebuilt. In the meantime the car must be off the road for weeks (months?).
b) They have an 8-week lead time as they aren't stocked in the country (oz).

-----------------------------------------

I did a lot of reading about the D2/G4 coilovers last night and after that I'm now a little hesitant. The general consensus is that they are crap but good value. The thing is that I don't want to be having to replace parts any time soon (I'd expect at least 60,000km out of them). On the plus side, replacement parts for the D2/G4s are readily available, the Teins don't seem to be so friendly...

If the ss dampers were in the country I would probably bite the bullet and get them. Is there any other similar price/quality brands to the teins?

I briefly read about people building their own coilovers using some kind of sleeve kit and normal shocks. Any comments about this?

[CelicaZR]

I dont know, but here in Sydney.
There is a place that rebuilt Teins.
Let me know how you go with the G4s.
I was planning to get them, but after hearing mixed reviews.
I'm not sure what to do

[DSRT-FX]

maybe rom's selling his ?! lol's .. he is the person to ask for when it comes to info on shot shocks .. he is the master !! lol's i know ur gunna see this rom !!

riding on custom set springs w/ 3" drop w/ shot shocks was like riding a pole up ya arse! big no no.. unless you prefer that... -R6

[Mangozac]

OK I got sick of my indecision and ordered a set of G4 coilovers yesterday. They should take about a week to get here so I'll install them next weekend.

I'll def take some pics then

[DaveQB]

it all depends on the height which you are dropping it to .. if your going to a maximum of 2 inches , i say it'll be fine ..

i had 2 inch pedders springs on for about a year or so , and they've never done me wrong , this was all done with the stock struts and what not .. plus my car is a 95' model ..

anything lower ?! i'd suggest coilovers !!

hope that helps

I'd like to drop mine just a bit, 1.5-2 inches sounds good to me. Where do I begin ?
Should I start a new thread ?

I am thinking Mida's could do the actually lowering, would they supply the parts needed ?

As you can tell, I have no idea and am just guessing as a way to get this done.

Thanks

[Mangozac]

I'd like to drop mine just a bit, 1.5-2 inches sounds good to me. Where do I begin ?
Should I start a new thread ?

I am thinking Mida's could do the actually lowering, would they supply the parts needed ?

As you can tell, I have no idea and am just guessing as a way to get this done.

Thanks

Hi Dave,

I'd suggest getting the Pedders sportsryder springs. I'm sure midas would do it for you but they might not have decent springs. The springs are about $350 and they will probably charge you about that much again to install.

---

In an update to my thread, there was a lot of stuffing around and stuffed up orders and I'm still waiting for my coilovers. They are supposed to arrive today but if they don't I'm going to have to wait until easter before I have a chance to put them on

Also getting some new Kuhmo tyres on Friday. Can't wait - my crappy federals are so slippery in the wet and it's been raining here almost continually for like 3 months now.

[DaveQB]

I'd like to drop mine just a bit, 1.5-2 inches sounds good to me. Where do I begin ?
Should I start a new thread ?

I am thinking Mida's could do the actually lowering, would they supply the parts needed ?

As you can tell, I have no idea and am just guessing as a way to get this done.

Thanks

Hi Dave,

I'd suggest getting the Pedders sportsryder springs. I'm sure midas would do it for you but they might not have decent springs. The springs are about $350 and they will probably charge you about that much again to install.

---

Thanks Mangozac.

I'll google those springs and see. So I dont need to go into changing struts etc ?
If I needed to do that, I'd probably just give it a miss. Just want to go as low as I can without overhauling the car and under $1k.

Midas the best place you think or somewhere better ? I was just throwing it out there as an option. Maybe I can get quotes from a few places.

Thanks again.
PS Yes, raining down here in Sydney alot too!

[Mangozac]

Thanks Mangozac.

I'll google those springs and see. So I dont need to go into changing struts etc ?
If I needed to do that, I'd probably just give it a miss. Just want to go as low as I can without overhauling the car and under $1k.

Midas the best place you think or somewhere better ? I was just throwing it out there as an option. Maybe I can get quotes from a few places.

Thanks again.
PS Yes, raining down here in Sydney alot too!

No, you shouldn't need to change the struts - unless they are getting really old. In order to drop that 1.5" to 2" (the sportsryders are about 40mm IIRC) they shouldn't need changing (as far as I've been told).

Honestly I've had no experience with Midas. The sportsryder springs I mentioned are made by Pedders. I'd steer clear of king springs or crappy stuff like that - they are designed solely for dumping a commodore, not to make a sports car handle nicely (whilst lowering at the same time). If you go with Pedders then whilst you're at it get them to do a 28 point check for $14. Just to make sure everything else is OK

[DaveQB]

Thanks mate.

So Pedders can install them too I take it ??
Anyone else you can think of that can install ?

Thanks again.

[Mangozac]

Thanks mate.

So Pedders can install them too I take it ??
Anyone else you can think of that can install ?

Yeah Pedders can do the install too. I'd expect any suspension place can do it. Or do it yourself (as I am) if you are that way inclined...

No worries man. Keep us posted on what you end up doing

[DaveQB]

Oh ok. Who else can do the install that you can think of ?
Also, these "sportsryders" who else sell's them or are they Pedders only ?

They are the best for performance and a mild 40mm drop that you know of ?

I don't think I can do this myself, I have enough trouble checking the oil !! Not a history of tinkering with cars. Give me a computer... well thats another story ;-)



Also, have you, or anyone, heard of these fella's ?
http://www.wholesalesuspension.com.au/

Or

http://www.shiftperformance.com.au/

Thanks

[Mangozac]

Oh ok. Who else can do the install that you can think of ?
Also, these "sportsryders" who else sell's them or are they Pedders only ?

They are the best for performance and a mild 40mm drop that you know of ?

I don't think I can do this myself, I have enough trouble checking the oil !! Not a history of tinkering with cars. Give me a computer... well thats another story ;-)



Also, have you, or anyone, heard of these fella's ?
http://www.wholesalesuspension.com.au/

Or

http://www.shiftperformance.com.au/

Thanks

The Sportsryders are made by Pedders so I'd expect that they're the only place you can get them from. In any case they aren't a bad price. As far as I know they are your best bet. Have a talk to Callum (NGHTKD on these forums) as he actually has them on his car. I was going to get them but because I needed to replace my shocks as well I decided to go with coilovers.

Those other sites look OK - it seems like they will be able to get the other brands that our US buddies talked about earlier in the thread. I'd expect that they'll be more exxy though.

[DaveQB]

Reading from this post down:
http://www.ozcelica.com/deltaforum/index.p...mp;#entry152073

Shows that people don't think much of the Pedders springs.
Such as comments like:

"King springs make pedders and paint them."
and
"LOL @ pedders.."
and
"In a more serious note I've also heard Pedders and King Springs are made in the same factory
that can only turn me off more"

Koni and Eibach seem to have a good rep. Need to see how much they are in Australia.


I think I might need to PM NGHTKD as he doesn't seem to be subscribed to this thread.

Has anyone used http://www.newcelica.org/ ?

This post has been edited by DaveQB: Mar 2, 2008 - 6:43 PM

[Mangozac]

Reading from this post down:
http://www.ozcelica.com/deltaforum/index.p...mp;#entry152073

Shows that people don't think much of the Pedders springs.
Such as comments like:

"King springs make pedders and paint them."
and
"LOL @ pedders.."
and
"In a more serious note I've also heard Pedders and King Springs are made in the same factory
that can only turn me off more"

Koni and Eibach seem to have a good rep. Need to see how much they are in Australia.


I think I might need to PM NGHTKD as he doesn't seem to be subscribed to this thread.

Has anyone used http://www.newcelica.org/ ?

Wow first I've heard of it. I've tried a few times to get access to ozcelica but it never works

My point still stands that the king springs are crap though

When you find out the Koni and Eibach prices let us know.

[Mangozac]

Woohoo my coilovers arrived!



Will put them on over the weekend. Exciting!