Im sooo freakin pissed...., need to let it out... Options

[lubu]

I bought a halftcut last yr (aug) and it had 3 months warranty on it. Done the compression test across 4 cylinders and they all good. So we did the auto to manual conversion. Popped the 3s in, had a bit of a problem with the rear mount but got that sorted out. Everything seems good ...

My mate finished the wiring and he fired her up yesterday, she idles good, revs good but he heard a knocking sound coming from the motor, he turned her off , took the intercooler out, took the camshaft cover out and by god.....he couldnt believe his eyes.

The camshafts arent toyotas, not aftermarket. Not even close, it looks like it made from some cheap doggy sh*t company, they're grinding against the cover and for some f*cking retarted reasons they installed backward.

We kinda know something was up with this engine, since we got it out we noticed the turbo has been sandblasted, the flywheel just changed and hasnt even seen its first 1000km yet, a few things here and there are just recently changed. It looks like the engine was kinda rebuilt (maybe just cosmetically rebuilt), at first I was kinda excited thinking to myself "WOOHOO I scored". Today, im pissed.

The thing is I cant claim warranty for the halftcut coz its been over 10 months since we started the conversions although we just started her up yesteday. I shouldda test run it when I first got it

Anyways will the camshafts installed backward harms the engine? We havenot yet run her on the road, as soon as my mate heard the knock he turned her off, the knocking could have been from cams grinding against the cover but who knows, could be more serious than that. I really hope changing the cams will fix everything up, I already spent too much money and time on this project..

Im just really sad and angry.

[lubu]

Im having my final exam tomorrow and this shiet is really getting my down...
I just hope that the backward installation wont do any damage to the engine...

[bccentaur3]

Sorry to hear this. Plus school is still in session? If the cams were installed backwards, would it have harmed the whole engine or just the head itself?

[lubu]

Sorry to hear this. Plus school is still in session? If the cams were installed backwards, would it have harmed the whole engine or just the head itself?

Yea I live in Australia and this is university exam's time.

Im not sure really..I dont think they can damage the whole engine, at best the head. Can someone confirm this? I really hope nothing else is damaged...

I just dont know why on earth theyre installed backward!!!

[3s-gte_man]

well when you say backwards what do you exactly mean cause i can't see how the engine will run at all...i mean how the cam gear bolts to it and then there should be a pin for hte cam gear to slot in to and yeah you just can't install them backwards.......

also on the intake cam it can't to because the dizzy need to slot in to get the right timing and all that.

maybe it was the wrong cams and they are really really tall in the lobs or yeah not torqued down right.......i've heard of cams snapping cause people not torquing down in the right sequence.

i hope she all sorts out and you get her on the road man.

[lubu]

well when you say backwards what do you exactly mean cause i can't see how the engine will run at all...i mean how the cam gear bolts to it and then there should be a pin for hte cam gear to slot in to and yeah you just can't install them backwards.......

also on the intake cam it can't to because the dizzy need to slot in to get the right timing and all that.

maybe it was the wrong cams and they are really really tall in the lobs or yeah not torqued down right.......i've heard of cams snapping cause people not torquing down in the right sequence.

i hope she all sorts out and you get her on the road man.

Thanks, Ive not yet take a look at it, atm its at my mate's house. Hes been doing the wiring, I just got the news this morning after he finished with the wires. From what Ive heard it sounds like the cams are tamppered (since they are not even toyotas) I dont really know till I go to his house, I will take some pics.

Anyways if they are a set of wrong cams, would they do any damage?

[MaskedMan]

How are Cams installed backwards!? That's not even a question on how stupid someone can be, but how can cams PHYSICALLY be installed backwards on an engine that idles and revs fine. It's just unimaginable (and I have a pretty amazing imagination). I would like to know what kind of cams these are, because they almost sound magical .

You stated in your first post...
"The camshafts arent toyotas, not aftermarket." Well ok, so they aren't Toyotas, and they aren't aftermarket, then what does that leave us with? If the cams were grinding against the valve cover, then it's either not bolted down correctly, or you got some incredible grind with unbelieveable valve lift.

If in the occasion that these cams are so horribly wrong for the car (I wouldn't worry cause it's highly unlikely) then most likely bent valves. (but it shouldn't be, cause you checked compression before, and in order to do that, you had to turn the crank shaft manually, which would have bent the valves in the process, and the results would have been bad). I wouldn't worry, just take your exam and worry about the Celica after.

[lubu]

How are Cams installed backwards!? That's not even a question on how stupid someone can be, but how can cams PHYSICALLY be installed backwards on an engine that idles and revs fine. It's just unimaginable (and I have a pretty amazing imagination). I would like to know what kind of cams these are, because they almost sound magical .

You stated in your first post...
"The camshafts arent toyotas, not aftermarket." Well ok, so they aren't Toyotas, and they aren't aftermarket, then what does that leave us with? If the cams were grinding against the valve cover, then it's either not bolted down correctly, or you got some incredible grind with unbelieveable valve lift.

If in the occasion that these cams are so horribly wrong for the car (I wouldn't worry cause it's highly unlikely) then most likely bent valves. (but it shouldn't be, cause you checked compression before, and in order to do that, you had to turn the crank shaft manually, which would have bent the valves in the process, and the results would have been bad). I wouldn't worry, just take your exam and worry about the Celica after.

From the description of my mate its a no brand cams (I considered HKS or relevant names are aftermarket's)...Abt the cams installed backward, yes I know, I didnt believe him at first. but hes kinda 3SGTE's guru (sorta like pressure2 LOL) so I ruled out the possibility of mistaken.

Thanks for confirming that MaskedMan, Im feeling a little relieved. But why on earth would you go change the flywheel, sandblasted the turbo, change a few other things then cut and sell it?

[95CelicaST]

make more money?

[lubu]

I just went to my mate's house this evening, and here are some pics:




Apparently only one cam is backwards and both are unidentified. I took a look at the cams and notice that the surface area in the blue circle is scratched (implying incorrect circumference)..there is also a little rod (red circle)for some sort of sensor (obviously the sensor isnt there). The exhaust cam are exact same the intake cam, yes they are twin. Both are intake cams but for some reason one was used in place of the proper exhaust cam. Also notice the area sorround the seal, they are damn clean...normally there is a bit of oil around these areas.

Doggy?
I know.

Some nuts and bolts from the cam's cover arent Toyotas, the engine itself start up fine, idles, revs but there are clapping & hissing sounds coming from the cam area. We guessed the clapping sounds is due to the cams : off-timing or the facts that they are the wrong set of cams and one is backwards. The hissing sound probably is because the fuelrails isnt sealed properly. Apart from the sounds it runs like a dog and doesnt look like anything else is damaged

[lubu]

Okay the camshafts were changed to Toyota's ones but the knocking sounds still exist Im not too sure what it is but it looks like we have to tear this motor apart if we want to do it right. Tired and disappointed I decided not to go in this direction.

Instead I steered to the BEAMS, yes yes...a redtop sexy BEAMS is something Ive always wanted and here is the chance to finally own one but afer tons of research its seems to have low Torque (at 21.0 KGm or 205Nm I believe) and the horse power isnt all of a WOW factor, but its just so SEXy....

Another option would be the 4th gen 3SGTE otherwise known as the Caldina, new engine, interchangable parts with its brothers, higher power output and Torque (33 KGm or 324Nm) compared to the BEAMS...I'll probably go with this option but before I do I would like to hear some feeback from people regarding tunability or just past experience with this beast.

[SlickRick]

Honestly it could have been a lot worse i am pretty sure the 3s is like the 5s and its a zero interference head, meaning the cam lobes on either the intake or exhaust cams dont have a high enough profile to push the valves into the piston and bend them. I would be concerned where there was wear on the cam journals (wear you said it look clean), thats not necessarily incorrect circumference as it may be improper torque or could be clogged oil passages from just sitting around for 10 months. Best case scenario u get the cams in the right place and set the timing with a timing light not just with timing marks. Worst case there was not proper lubrication to the journals and some of the surfaces are now scored and the cams r worthless. First thing check the service limits on the head, valves, valve guides, cams, and all bolts. Any of those could have been messed up in the process. Good luck with fixing it let me know if u have any questions!

Oh and have u isolated the knocking sound? Say to a certain side or cylinder? Do u have a stethoscope?

[lubu]

We changed the cams, and Im pretty sure its not the head that makes the noise. Looks like the noise is coming from the longblock, its came to a point where we had enough with the engine so Im gonna part it out and recoupe some money. Thanks for the tips though, I appreciate it.

Im thinking of putting the 205 W2A on the 4thgen 3S, and from the looks of it, it just might bolt up to the head. ALthough Im not sure abt the wiring, not so much abt the ECU but the gauge, I know that the 215 uses digital odo would that be a problem?
Im guessing apart from esternperino theres no one else (active that is) done the 4thgen 3S swap?

[Batman722]

the st215 has a side feed manifold, not a front feed like the st205.

[lubu]

the st215 has a side feed manifold, not a front feed like the st205.

I know that, Im gonna make an outlet to the right side of the intercooler.