Uprating Alternator Options

[Chiefton]

Does anybody here know whether the alternators from the Lexus Models RX300 or GS400 would fit my Gen 6 Celica. I need a larger one as im still struggling with voltage drop from my sound system. Trying to get a similar bolt pattern so i can litterally swap them over, or is it not that easy??

Ideally looking for a 120amp alt, this wouldnt put starin on the engine as its almost double the standard 70 amp one installed currently??

Cheers for any advice

[D-Man]

Capacitor. It's FTMFW.

[Chiefton]

Lol, got the t-shirt and a 5 farad one of those! Next suggestion please

Little more info as to current setup

Source Unit: Panasonic CQ-TX5500W (Tubular)
Amplification: Genesis Dual Mono x5, Monoblock x1
Processing: Phoenix Gold DD10, Audiocontrol Epicentre, UCS Pro, Brax Multicontrollers
Speakers: MB Quart QSD 3-way active, Kenwood Super-Woofer
Cables: Zero gauge KnuKonceptz linked to Audison Fused distro the 4 gauge Phoenix Gold cable to amps
Battery: Yellow Top in the front, looking at getting a second shortly
Fabrication: Homebase Wood, Dynamat, Old Foam

[Sinyk]

All words. We require pictures!

[D-Man]

dude, dont get a second battery. That'll make things worse. When you've got two, then the load doubles; making the alternator have to send the power in 2 directions, it's essentially filling 2 leaking cups. Once you start your car, you battery only recharges and sits there untill you bar all the power of the alt. Not untill then will it dip into the batt, and that's usualy bad for the battary. The battary isn't intended to supply power moving that fast, thats why caps are used.

I know that GRIFFGIRL had a high load alternator for the 6th gen celicas. It was a 170V (IIRC). It needed to be re-wound. You can always take you existing alt to a specialty/machine shop and see if they can do it. But what ever you're doing to drain your stock alt, Batt, and a 5F cap, is something i'd imagine is being done wrong. I hope all of your stuff is fused.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Sep 24, 2008 - 4:27 PM

[Sinyk]

Yeah, listening to it too loud for too long

Are you running comps with this setup? Don't you just burp the bass for a second? Or are you using this car as a portable boombox?

[Chiefton]

I thought that a second battery would help as then i would have double the storage and would take a lot longer before it got down to dangerouse voltage levels? I wudnt have thought the second battery would put more strain on the alt as its only got a maximum output, and if im already exceeding that wont it jus kill my other battery?? Also arnt caps worse as they discharge too quickly and then need to steals power from the battery to recharge itself. Whats the general increase from getting your alt rewound?

This is all jus my ideas so please correct me if im wrong, jus thought id ask for second, third and forth opinions on these things

ps. Pics uploaded to my profile page

[Chiefton]

Yeah, listening to it too loud for too long

Are you running comps with this setup? Don't you just burp the bass for a second? Or are you using this car as a portable boombox?

Running 3 way active setup in the front and some 6.5" bass speakers in the rear and then a 12" sub in the boot. I only get the voltage drop when i crank the bass controller up, some times i jus get the urge to vibrate myself into submission, thats when the volts get low 11's whilst the cars on albeit at idle. I been told that if you get into the 10's on voltage thats when amps go poof!!

and how u get an avatar?

[Sinyk]

When my voltage went that low with my 2 15's, my stereo went into protection and shut off. If your stuff goes "poof" i'd think about getting better quality stuff. I'm surprised you get voltage drop with only that. How much power do those amps put out?

This post has been edited by Sinyk: Sep 24, 2008 - 4:52 PM

[Chiefton]

When my voltage went that low with my 2 15's, my stereo went into protection and shut off. If your stuff goes "poof" i'd think about getting better quality stuff. I'm surprised you get voltage drop with only that. How much power do those amps put out?

lol, didnt think 6 amps was too bad . The monoblock is the killer thats 1200RMS@1ohm then i got the other five duelmono amps running 2x150RMS@4ohm, the dual monos max draw is 58 Amps and the monoblock max draw is 170amp so 170 + 290 (5x58amp) means a potential draw ov 460amp draw, and i wonder why my alt cant keep up. And yes i know that these are max figures but even if its a third of that figure its still emense. If you dont know Genesis, av a look at the link below, not bad kit, not bad at all

http://www.genesiscaraudio.net/main/

[D-Man]

I thought that a second battery would help as then i would have double the storage and would take a lot longer before it got down to dangerouse voltage levels? I wudnt have thought the second battery would put more strain on the alt as its only got a maximum output, and if im already exceeding that wont it jus kill my other battery?? Also arnt caps worse as they discharge too quickly and then need to steals power from the battery to recharge itself. Whats the general increase from getting your alt rewound?

Okay,........ No.

The battary starts the car and then goes dormant, as the altinator forces power into the chassis and positive wire stream. If you have a V meeter, you'll notice 12V togo 13-15 after you start the car. Now, Lets say that your alt is putting out 75, when your draw is 80. That extra 5 will come from the battary. Like an overdraft.

Now, as for 2 battaries, If you're draining your alt's power and dipping into the batt supply; then durring it's charge phase (when your electronic crap quit's stealing the power, lol) the altinator has to put 2 equil forces into each battary. Therefore it's like trying to fill 2 leeky cups with one waterbottle, AT THE SAME TIME!!! you have to poor equil amounts in, and that amount will (attemptably) be the same as the one battarys amount. Get it?

Capacitors charge and discharge quickly, this is true. But this is why they are GOOD for your car. Your amplifier is just a bunch of capicotors sitting in a box, obsorbing the audio signal and releasing it with the stored force. That's it. now, when your amp pulls most/ all the power from your alt, then it dips into your battary, and then sh!t dimms (just for a second) then the "BUMP" is over and the amp pulls a charge from the battary again, and the alt recarges the whole car for it to do it again. A capicitor, is intended to go between the amp and the battary and release this power as quick as the amp will rip it; but draws it's source slower than the amp as to not damage the battary. Unless you got a crapy cap. Mine has protection.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Sep 24, 2008 - 5:07 PM

[Chiefton]

KK makes sense to me, but i know loads of friends that get extra batteries before they upgrade alternator, so pressumed there would be a reason for this, maybe this is a quick fix solution.

If the cap "draws it's source slower than the amp as to not damage the battary", would the cap not be useless after its spent its load (for a second anyway), and the amps would then still be draining from the battery?? i got an alumpro 5farad, think thats wot its called, dont think they suppose to be rubbish, but not sure whether they got any built in protection. And i am fused to the max so no worries there.

In answer to my original question you would say its wise to upgrade the alt, then if im still dropping voltage, add another battery?? Any ideas on Lexus fittings??

Appreciate the help guys

[Jaws4God]

i'm interested too..

I have a Stock Altintaor
Audiobahn 1600watt amp
.5 Farad Capacitor.. (had a 4 Farad but that still didn't keep from low voltage, plus stayed on and drained battery.. LOL)

[D-Man]

KK makes sense to me, but i know loads of friends that get extra batteries before they upgrade alternator, so pressumed there would be a reason for this, maybe this is a quick fix solution.

If the cap "draws it's source slower than the amp as to not damage the battary", would the cap not be useless after its spent its load (for a second anyway), and the amps would then still be draining from the battery?? i got an alumpro 5farad, think thats wot its called, dont think they suppose to be rubbish, but not sure whether they got any built in protection. And i am fused to the max so no worries there.

In answer to my original question you would say its wise to upgrade the alt, then if im still dropping voltage, add another battery?? Any ideas on Lexus fittings??

Appreciate the help guys

Yes. It would be useless; much like a second battary. That's what caps are for. You've just got some kind of insane load... I'm kinda worried about where all this power is going... But, W/e.

Personaly, i do not know if a lex alt will fit you. I know the Auto's alts are 5v more than the manuel, but that's for the auto's computer.

I'd take the alt to a junk-yard and compare with the lex alts.

If it were me (and what i've done in the past for sound-wagons) is to take it to a specialty shop and have it re-wond and made "bigger". Goto a local customs place and ask where you could get that done at. that way they can reccomend you a local machine shop that offers that service, or can do it for you. IDK where you could get that done in "London Baby" but i know where to go in Houston lol. I doubt you wanna cross the planet for an altinator though

[Driveby]

A second battery being charged through a proper split charge relay (diodes fitted to stop drawing on the vehicle battery and only allowing the audio system battery to be punished) will be a hell of a lot easier and cheaper than a high output alternator (in the UK anyway )

[Chiefton]

so is it a UK opinion that a second battery would help my cause. I have got a split charge relay sitting here already, but havnt got a second battery yet, so its not installed. But with the views already pointed out by others in this post this wont help, it'll jus mean my alts still stressed for longer as its got too batteries to charge??

[DEATH]

Nope - what he said is true - if you have that relay it will help tremendously - unfortuantely at the expense of your alternator. It's having to do twice the work [or somewhere close to it anyway] so it will last half as long theoretically.

[Chiefton]

Decided! a second battery is gonna be installed on the weekend. And as famous bloke from rocky once said "If he dies, he dies!" (think it was rocky)

Cheers all

[D-Man]

If you must, then DO IT WITH A SPLIT CHARGING SYSTEM!! If you just pllug them into each other, (as i mentioned before) it'll run fine for the first few min and begin doing the same.

G/L

[DEATH]

That's what he and the other guy are saying. that's why I agreed with you until I found out he has that relay and intends to use it. In this case you were both right. It's the alt that will suffer from that setup.

[Chiefton]

Soz chaps should have explained myself clearer. If i was adding second battery it would definatly be split charged, lol. Also the other thing i should have stated is that most the uk cars will be 3s-ge engine rather then the 7afe ones, believe this makes a difference on some of the parts. Anyhow cheers for the help one more time.

How do i add pics to a thread to show how my install is coming along

[D-Man]

create an account at PHOTOBUCKET.COM

Take pictues and upload them to PHOTOBUCKET

Take the IMG code from your pictures that have been uploaded to PHOTOBUCKET and paste that code where you want your pics displayed.

NOTE: here on 6gc.net, there is a 500-PIC per project minimum

j/p

This post has been edited by D-Man: Sep 25, 2008 - 2:20 PM

[Chiefton]

Top banana, brb

[D-Man]

Top banana, brb

Did you just call me a banana?

[GriffGirl]

I don't have an uprated alt - I hawked that badboy for crack money. (okay seriously, I did sell it. It wasn't a good match for the 7A anyway.)

I did however find out a week or so ago that I have a high output battery. Apparently it's putting out enough juice for a V8. So I've decided I'm going to install a motorized disco ball to compliment the faux fur headliner and fringed visors I installed.

[Sinyk]

500 pics, so true. Not complaining or anything, but people who post a project with 1 fuzzy cell phone pic... come on!

[DEATH]

Top banana, brb

Did you just call me a banana?

Welcome to the world D-man - you do realise they think our slang is funny sounding right?

Cool idea on the setup - I'd like to see how it works out so yeah - good pics and plenty of them.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Sep 25, 2008 - 3:03 PM

[Chiefton]

To all you top bannanas out there, thats you d-man, my install as it currently stands

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...t=0#entry714340

ps, you do all talk funny over there

This post has been edited by Chiefton: Sep 25, 2008 - 7:17 PM

[petna]

how did the 2nd batt install come along??

[Chiefton]

how did the 2nd batt install come along??

Yo dude, unfortunatly i dont move that fast, currently studying on most weekends so it doesnt leave much daylight for me too work in. I have a split charge relay in the Orion MBR70 but no second battery as yet, so theres no rush for the mo, also got plenty of 4 gauge cable to use on he second battery when purchased. But my main priority is to get the Cyclone in, for curiosity reasons more then anythin, so will do that on Saturday, fingers crossed it goes smoothly. The Cyclone is 300watts draw on the amp, as opposed to the 1200watt sub i had before, so that should help my voltage drop problems. Brown note here i come!! lol

[petna]

Have joined up to talkaudio too and posted on your thread regarding the alternator. I too will be going split charge and a 2nd batt

[Chiefton]

Have joined up to talkaudio too and posted on your thread regarding the alternator. I too will be going split charge and a 2nd batt

looks like i got sum competition in that case, haha. What u fink of this whole Replikit business?? Think i shud let him copy?? Whats the average cost for fitting and spraying a full kit??

[DatDudeDEnd]

CAPS ARE A PIECE OF ****!! WORTHLESS..

Have you done the BIG 3? This is crucial to the electrical in your car. If you haven’t done this do it as soon as u can in 1/0 gauge wire.

Your system doesn't really feed off just of the second battery or the one just under the hood, your system feeds off the entire electrical circuit as a whole, of which both batteries and the alternator are all a part of, a second battery in the trunk will not affect the performance of your electrical at all it will improve it but it all comes down to the alternator in most cases, if your electrical starts getting strained the first that will suffer is your alternator, but this shouldn’t happen if your alternator can feed those demands if it cant provide the power that your electrical system is demanding most likely your alt will fail in time, and your batteries wont perform how they should. The alternator will always provide as much power as it's capable of into the circuit until more is needed, then the storage that your batteries have will discharge to make up the difference. after the discharge, the storage devices will pull current out of the circuit to replenish. Adding a second battery will allow you to run your system longer with the car off, but if you have the ability to drain two batteries with your system, then as soon as you start the car, the alt has to charge two batteries instead of one, so that’s another thing what will strain the alternator. You should try to get a H/O Alt and do the BIG 3. If your alternator can provide the amps/volts while playing @ full tilt to your battery’s you should have no issues.

I’m running 2500 wrms, with big 3, 180 H/O Alt from Excessive Amperage, Kinetik HC1800 under the hood and 1 power master d3100 on the trunk, all 1/0 gauge wire, at full tilt I don’t get dimming at all, my voltage never drops under 13.7 volts @ idle, I don’t have relays, isolators anything in that matter in between batteries, 80 percent of competitors I know don’t use them, just get an isolator if you plan on playing music while the car is of.

In most cases what will be affected is the alternator cuz that’s your power source, the alternator doesn’t know how many batterys you have etc it just sends out whatever the electrical system is demanding as a whole, anyhow If you're concerned about not having enough power, get a bigger alternator and do the big 3. Pushing an alternator to 90% of it's capacity all the time is what'll make it fail. Get a 140 - 180-amp alternator and do the big 3 if you haven’t, that would solve your problems, and I would suggest getting the biggest battery you could buy/fit on your trunk(kinetik hc2400 or power master d3100) a yellow top would be good too no doubt.

This post has been edited by DatDudeDEnd: Oct 25, 2008 - 3:12 PM

[DatDudeDEnd]

Ideally looking for a 120amp alt, this wouldnt put starin on the engine as its almost double the standard 70 amp one installed currently??

Cheers for any advice

The extra amps would not put strain on your engine it would put strain on the stock wires, thats why the BIG 3 is done, when installing a H/O alternator. What size are your power wires?

This post has been edited by DatDudeDEnd: Oct 25, 2008 - 10:26 PM

[petna]

Where do we get one of these high output alternators from? Can't find any anywhere. I'd love 150A+!!! I would be installing 0awg throughout anyway. Just building myinstall at the moment and could do with a H/O alt sooner rather than later

EDIT

I see you told us.... excessive amperage

This post has been edited by petna: Oct 26, 2008 - 11:44 AM