will a stock 96 celica beat a stock 99 civic SI? Options

[venomviper88]

i know the celica wont beat the SI but I was wondering if the celica would be at lest close to beating it?

[Guest_Matthew_*]

race your friend or whoever and find out

most people will reply like this

oh it depends on what mods

depends on the driver


blah blah

no way to know for sure for your situation...

[Mynzeyes]

if it's an ST, no way. if it's a GT, a little LESS no way. .

[Kwanza]

The SI will walk all over you... 160hp compared to 130-135 (assuming you have a GT)... plus the Civic has better gearing, a better powerband, and an 8K redline...

[kuya1284]

It amuses me when people continue to ask these types of questions...

[3FingersCelica]

I have a 97 ST. I raced a 97 Civic SI. It was a close race but I beat him buy less than a car length. I figure he just didn't know how to drive.

[Seth6Gen]

[3FingersCelica]

You may be right about that. But I did see the engine, it was DOHC. I don't know if the year was different or if it had an engine swap done. I just know what it had and that I beat it.

[98celica3]

ok, it all depends on the driver(if yours is a GT). i have beaten 3 SI's with my lightly modded gt. they are way overrated if you ask me.
adam

[Guest_Matthew_*]

i dont care what anyone says


a 115hp car that weighs almost exactly the same as a 160hp car would not win.

unless the guy stalled out at the beginning or something but that doesnt happen. people with civics race all the time so they dont kill it at the beginning often.

[3FingersCelica]

[Kwanza]

[3FingersCelica]

Last time I checked, the only Civic with a DOHC engine is an SI. Please let me know if I'm wrong

[Hym3n]

LMAO. With an ST, the real question you should've asked is something like "Can my Celica beat a DX?", and even that would be a close race.

-Brian

[95GTspeed]

my friend has a 98 civic dx hatchback and its really quick until he hits 3rd gear. he and i are planning to race as soon as i get some new tires. theres no way i can launch without peeling out.

[Guest_Matthew_*]

yea civic hatchbacks are really quick because of how light and small they are...if i ever owned a civic thats what i would want.

[Kwanza]

[5sfeTurbo]

lol..If that motor was the B16, the V-tech would womp you and wouldnt stop.
I dont see how this could have come to be, not calling you a liar bro, but as long as he was basically shifting.. if it was a real SI he would a have had you by a good margin.

[5sfeTurbo]

No civic si's in 1997. They actually started back in 1984 with the CRX si till 1987. They then changed to the 88-91 CRX/Civic which there still was an Si model. It continued through 1992-1995 with the Si hatch back which had a d16z6 125hp motor not d15 127hp. There was none from 1996-1998. They were made again from 1999-2000 with a B16A2 OBDII version 160hp 111lb/ft of tq not 105. Then continued on with the new K20 series Si hatchse.

The 6th gen hatches (which only came with either a 1.5 non-vtec sohc in the CX and 1.6 non-vtec sohc in the dx. Both were dogs. They are made for one thing....gas milage. They are not fast and will not be fast. I guess a good race for an ST. :shrug: Either way both are high 16 low 17 second cars. The Civic Si with such a low stroke and sky high power band will not beat you off the line, it is the top of the power band where it will prevail. It is infact a TQless wonder.

Maybe you saw DOHC stickers on the side which can easily be picked up from a local Honda dealer for about $15 and slapped on any car. These posts kill me.

P.S. This was info was given to me by a friend who races ECHC for N.A.S.A. just for informative purposes.

This post has been edited by 5sfeTurbo: Sep 29, 2003 - 1:27 AM

[boosted_K2]

i think our STs need to worry about chevy malabus before we graduate to SIs, our cars are awesome. but they are **** in a drag race, thats not what the car was intended for, and it shows... so quit arguing that it can beat a car made with more performance in mind, just because its a "HONDUH" doesnt mean you can beat it. it makes me sick listening to people degrade Civic SIs just because there are too many people out there that buy a civic EX or DX, and expect it to be at the same level as a SI. Its the same thing as someone buying a Celica GT and expecting it to perform like a SS-iii. **** just isnt going to happen untill you put some REAL performance mods into it, intake and exhaust just doesnt cut it. Civic SIs are very nice cars... they are very economical and have a nice kick at high RPMs dont knock them just because they alot of times fall into the hands of idiots.

[BlackSTX]

Wouldn't the distance of the race make a difference too between the two cars? I mean if you're just racing stoplight to stoplight couldn't a celica beat an SI?

[kuya1284]

[Chrobis]

I raced a civic SI from a rolling 30 up to about 80... and was bumper to bumper, the road was a little small and dangerous so I stopped at 80. But that was pushing the car hard... very very hard. If it had kept going he would have pulled away most likely. Plus it was more of an exhibition of speed then a race.

And honda did make another DOHC Civic... Starting in '94 until '97 there is the Civic Del Sol V-tech engine... which was the same engine used in the '99-'00 Civic SI

[boosted_K2]

[Tenchi]

[jayi12-15psi]

even though the si's have 160 hp compared to the gt's 135, you have to remember that the si has a higher powerband. So unless the driver of the civic shifts right into or below the power band, the will lose alot of power with every shift. So even though the civic is quick, my celica has beaten many si civics, you can call me a liar, but their low end torque is just so fuggin weak the cant catch up. and as for civic ex's, even though they have 130 hp, st celicas should still be able to keep up, because just like their big brother(the si) they dont have torque.

[Kwanza]

[Tenchi]

Kwanza is right, if I shift at 8000-8200 I land at about 6K rpms which is way above the 5500 rpm VTEC crossover. If the driver of the Si was just playing and shifting at 6K then yeah, they are not much of a threat...

[boosted_K2]

theres so many factors that can play into a race, from driver skill, to weather conditions, to engine and tire wear, all the way to as minute as tire pressure.

given ideal conditions, 99 celica GT 5-speed off the show room floor with 0 miles, and a 99 Civic SI 5-speed off the show room floor with zero miles. if you were to neglect breakin time, take them to a drag strip, both drivers have the same skill and get identical reaction times, the Celica WILL NOT WIN. period. end of story. that is what i think the guy was asking.

[boosted_K2]

A SS-ii or SS-iii would win, but not a USDM GT

[yep]

why can't the 3s-ge be here in america, or at least something stronger than the 5s-fe?

[94TRDCeli]

I rode in my friends 99 si the other night..only mods he has is an exhaust...and i could tell that he wasnt even trying and was accelerating much quicker than my celica

[Uppitycracker]

Uhhhhhh my buddy has a black 1997 Civic Si, so how was there no si in 97? Im almost positive on the year and I know for a fact its an si, I know it doesnt have the vtec engine, but its an si for sure.

Maybe it wasn't available in the US? I know Ive seen si's for most years.

This post has been edited by Uppitycracker: Oct 1, 2003 - 9:01 PM

[5sfeTurbo]

check again

[Uppitycracker]

Auto Trader

Heres a link to the canadian auto trader, alot of 97 si's and I know some people get the year of there car wrong but there are too many to be just a mistake.

CanadianDriver.com

Heres another webpage that shows the si blue book values from 96-2000

Obviously it was available in Canada for those years.

This post has been edited by Uppitycracker: Oct 1, 2003 - 9:12 PM

[Kwanza]

[Tenchi]

Yep, 99-00. There was no Si in 01 and the 02+ is the EP3 hatchback Si (Si-R in Canada).

This post has been edited by Tenchi: Oct 2, 2003 - 7:58 AM

[DG_Performance]

I would just like to say that before I turboed my car i actually raced my friend with a 2000 civic si..... I actually pulled a lead off the start with a 1995 celica gt! But as soon as i shifted into 2nd gear my friend was already passing me up. So Since I got a better start in that race is the only time i was in front of the civic si!!! Now that i got the turbo ct-26 i can shift at about 4500-5000 rpm and beat the civic si. But for these to cars to race as stock there is no way a celica would win unless you are racing le length of 20 feet!!! HAHA celicas will alway look good going slow down the road and that is the most important part! Right???

[Uppitycracker]

[Tenchi]

Ah yes, the "torqueless wonder." Gotta love it (or hate it ).

[CelicaStud]

I don't know if this helps at all, but here goes.

I own a '94 Celica ST. No, it's not a beast, but ST's seem to get played down WAY too much around here. There is no doubt in my mind that a GT is faster than an ST or that an GT-4 is faster than that, but when you guys start comparing ST's to EX and DX Civics, that's just wrong, man! I don't know what I would do if I lost to a pathetic DX or EX civic, and I'll tell you, I have a friend with a nice '93 DX civic with a stock D15 engine except for a new cam (SOHC). I've raced him a few times and every time I beat him the same way.

I never seem to get off the line as quick as he does, maybe it is because I have a heavier car(?), I don't know, but I WILL tell you this...I spank him in 3rd gear.

1st Gear

--Civ
Cel

2nd Gear

--------Civ
-------Cel

3rd

-----------------Civ
-------------------------Cel

If you can picture that, that is the way it went. So is an ST faster than an Si? I doubt. But does the ST deserve the bad wrap everyone seems to give it? I don't think so.

P.S. I'd rather lose to a Civic than to a Neon. Those things are gross!

Edit: This friend of mine is undergoing an engine swap to a DOHC V

This post has been edited by CelicaStud: Oct 8, 2003 - 11:15 PM

[Kwanza]

[kuya1284]

[CelicaStud]

I'm pretty sure that the person I bought my car from kept it stock, AND I'm pretty sure I run faster than 17's. Out by my house there is a hill (probably 30%) that my friend and I race up. It's kind of fun, and we both try to hit 60+ by the time we get to a particular driveway with is about 1/5 mile away from the start. On a warm day, I can hit 66, on a cold, 57-60. My friend own a 95 Eagle Talon (not a TSi though) and he gets to about the same speed. We once raced and he beat me by about 1/2 of a car length. Anyways, the point I'm trying to get at is that if I can hit 60+ on a HILL within 1/5 mile and I've guestimated about 80 on a 1/4 level strip (I actually went out to a public road and painted lines), shouldn't I be hitting better than 17's? There's a civic out at the track that hits 16's (ewwww) at top of about 70. What's up with that? Shouldn't I be doing better?

[Guest_Matthew_*]

no you shouldnt be doing better

[kuya1284]

The fastest I was ever able to pull on a ST with exhaust, intake, and stock 14" rims was 16.545. Now this is one of the fastest times... I know a couple other who got low 16's with more mods... but with a simple setup... mid 16's is still hard to come by with the 7A...

[NYCelica]

Are you sure you're talking about the right car??? So how come? you didnt catch me up ? from oakdole mall highway.

[Digndoug]

Alright not sure if this makes a diff to any ones argument, but they did make an Si in 97, but it was the civic del-sol. the 160 hp blah blahjh what ever... My frined has it, itsactually quick, i like it but it feels the exact same as my car, an st, until you hit V-tec, then it pulls like a mo-fo...I mean St's really arnt that slow too, in a way, Ive beat a civic dx and an ex

[Guest_Matthew_*]

no offense to all the ST owners with stock engines


i dont see how you can say that you can beat a civic ex.

being honest in my 98 gt hatch auto when i first got it i lost to a civic ex

now please dont tell me your car with 20 less hp and maybe 100 pounds lighter beat them

civics are light

fast


and have just as much power as gt's

even the dx models have 115hp


maybe you came close to winning if they had an auto with no mods

oh and the guy i lost to all he had was exhaust and 17's

i also had 2 w7's in the back so maybe that was it.

[CupCrazy38]

Well, b4 I bought my car I took it to Toyota. When they did their run-through they told me that the car had 114 hp when they tested it. The car's an ST. Don't know if this is true, and I'm not aware of any mods done to the car, so I wouldn't be able to explain how it might be possible if it's true.

However, they did seem to miss the fact that the car was missing a whole piece of the front right bumber and that the headlight wasn't attached below. But hey... what're toyota dealers for right?

[Digndoug]

Ok, first off the dx only has 102 hp an 98 trq.... to kwanza they only are about 2300lb wich is 100 less then the st..... Sh.t my bro has a dx coupe ... an i dont wanna be a an ass but i can drive very well...... ok to settle this my bro can drive just as well well go race tomorrow.... il let you know the results


Ok, also my other frined has a 95 civic ex with intake chip full exhaust , il race him and for sh.ts an giggles il race my freind with his dohc 97 civic del-sol SI

This post has been edited by Digndoug: Oct 29, 2003 - 12:27 AM

[Guest_Matthew_*]

haha nice buddy

http://www.hondacars.com/models/model_over...ame=Civic+Sedan

go there click on civic dx

a pop up box will explain everything

they dont have those in coupe i already looked

[Digndoug]

Ok, this might help sorry my bro has a 94 civic dx coupe,

[Guest_Matthew_*]

well you didnt say that...we are comparing 96 celica and 99 SI.

so i went for those years

[Digndoug]

Yeah my bad, I got carried away with it , any dun-up civic around here, or any that race are the older ones.... well, i beat a new dx , but it was auto, just a funny race really....

[97sccelica]

[Kwanza]

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

so whats the point in owning a celica? there not fast, i'm getting really sick of mine, i pull up at the garage i work at and every one loves it and thinks it looks fast as hell. but it has nothing. it's like a pretty girlfriend with a stuffed bra and a gurtil, sure she looks hot, but underneath she's not.

[Mynzeyes]

[kuya1284]

[Aus]

i've kicked enough civics ('si' - is that like 160bhp?? its called the 'vti' in england)

then again - i've got a 3sge - so those little honda sh*ts cant get near me!!!