83 celica gt swap Options

[83gt]

Hey guys, Im a new member and I will be picking up a 83 celica gt in the next couple weeks, and id like to build it into a drift car, similar to a hachiroku. I want to swap in a 1jzgte or 7mgte. I know the main problem with these swaps is that the engine bay for the celica is 4 inches shorter than the old celica supras, but i have a friend that can do the modifications to the firewall so the engine will fit.

I have a couple other questions though.

1. Will the shifter sit farther back than the current one because the engine is longer? If so, will other modifications to the body need to be made because the shifter will sit farther back?

2. I know the chassis for the celica was not built to hold the larger I6 engine, how much fabrication will be needed to mount the engine?

3. I have heard that these engines may throw off the balance of the car, will suspension and strut bars add enough balance and rigidity?

4. I have never dealt with an engine swap before, so what does this mean as far as speedo gauges and such?

5. Has anyone heard of any other reasonable swaps for this car? (sr20? )

6. Lets say i wanted to do a rhd conversion also. Would both of these conversions need to be done at the same time?

Keep in mind that i have another car for my DD. This will be an ongoing project for me and some buddies. Also because this wont be my DD, i will be gutting the interior to make any necessary modifications. Im going to start from scratch basically. Once i get the car im gonna strip it down and clean it up and start from there. Should make for a fun project.

[pipes]

Hey guys, Im a new member and I will be picking up a 83 celica gt in the next couple weeks, and id like to build it into a drift car, similar to a hachiroku. I want to swap in a 1jzgte or 7mgte. I know the main problem with these swaps is that the engine bay for the celica is 4 inches shorter than the old celica supras, but i have a friend that can do the modifications to the firewall so the engine will fit.

I have a couple other questions though.

1. Will the shifter sit farther back than the current one because the engine is longer? If so, will other modifications to the body need to be made because the shifter will sit farther back?

2. I know the chassis for the celica was not built to hold the larger I6 engine, how much fabrication will be needed to mount the engine?

3. I have heard that these engines may throw off the balance of the car, will suspension and strut bars add enough balance and rigidity?

4. I have never dealt with an engine swap before, so what does this mean as far as speedo gauges and such?

5. Has anyone heard of any other reasonable swaps for this car? (sr20? )

6. Lets say i wanted to do a rhd conversion also. Would both of these conversions need to be done at the same time?

Keep in mind that i have another car for my DD. This will be an ongoing project for me and some buddies. Also because this wont be my DD, i will be gutting the interior to make any necessary modifications. Im going to start from scratch basically. Once i get the car im gonna strip it down and clean it up and start from there. Should make for a fun project.

From experince do the rhd first.... but seeing as you have the bigger engine do a test fit to see where the firewall has to be move cut or shaved

[83gt]

Ok cool. Im still deciding how deep into this project i want to get. I know we're gonna have our hands full with the engine swap alone. Its good to know that if i want to do the rhd conversion i need to decide soon haha. Thanks dude.

[soulshadow]

You should figure out a budget b4 you dive in to doing a RHD or a 1J swap. If you guys can gather up a(n) amount of money that would be great. Remember this car is very old now. You would need to do supension work and maybe even body work if its rusted up. A simple $500 car that is not running can soon turn out to be 10 grand. I would suggest you guys to get a Supra thats got a 7M in it and go from there or a different RWD car if you plan is to drift. Most people go with 240's because they are lighter and more commonly found.

[83gt]

I was looking for a 240 for a while before i decided on this car. I remembered that my grandfather has the celica at his house. He starts it occasionally but doesnt drive it very often. He is just going to give it to me next time i go to his house, and i figured it would be a decent project car. Im not sure what kind of condition the body is in. I know that i will need to do suspension and brake work. I am not planning on this being a two week project. This will be a long term project that i want to do right. The rhd conversion was just an idea, as i havent looked into that too much. The 1jz or 7m swap is doable and will be plenty of power. Why did you say i should choose another rwd car in order to drift? I have heard that the celica is heavy but will that be an issue when gutted and swapped? I have also read about the 3sgte swap which seems to be simpler than the 1j or 7m, but i feel like i will need the added power. Any input?

[lagos]

You do realize this engine wont work with the fwd setup of the car, right?

[83gt]

'83 celica gt is FR my man

[pipes]

You do realize this engine wont work with the fwd setup of the car, right?

Rwd up until 87 I belive

[lagos]

ah, my bad. I was thinking you were refering to the 4th gens.
why not just go for a real 2jz? my buddy is swapping one into his mk3 supra, and he managed to score a nice engine for around 1500 bucks.

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 23, 2008 - 8:02 PM

[83gt]

3rd gen is '82-'85. The 2jz around $2000 more expensive (at least) with transmission, wiring, ecu, etc. Im not sure where your buddy got that engine for 1500. Thats a damn good find. Also the mk3 supra's engine bay is bigger so the 2jz will fit much easier. I think the 1jzgte twin turbo will make enough power, especially if i upgrade/tune down the road. And correct me if im wrong, the 2jz engine is heavier i believe.

[lagos]

3rd gen is '82-'85. The 2jz around $2000 more expensive (at least) with transmission, wiring, ecu, etc. Im not sure where your buddy got that engine for 1500. Thats a damn good find. Also the mk3 supra's engine bay is bigger so the 2jz will fit much easier. I think the 1jzgte twin turbo will make enough power, especially if i upgrade/tune down the road. And correct me if im wrong, the 2jz engine is heavier i believe.

from what ive seen the 1j and 2j are roughly the same size as far as fitment.
the biggest issue with the 2j on the mk3 was that the stock twins would end up hitting the firewall, but you can upgrade to a single turbo to work around that issue.

[Valo666]

Best bang for your buck if you wanna make it into a drift car...find an older 20R motor from the first gen celica/supra's, throw the 22REC head onto the block, get a good cam in there and your set. Only other thing i would do is maybe weld up the diff or find a LSD from a 86 4wd 4Runner's front end and throw it in the back. You can spend the time and $ on throwing in a 1J or 2J or 7M, but they will throw off the cars weight, plus they are all heavy motors. If you build up the 20 series motors that they come with, it keeps the balance and weight in check. The other thing you could do is theres a company called LC Enengering that make fully built and blue printed 20 series motors for any thing from offroading or circle track, carburated or turboed. You can make alot of power from these old simple motors.

Other problems you might run into with swaping in a more modern motor is the speedo's on the MKII's are cabel driven. So you would have to retrofit somethin to get it to work, or swap your factory guages out for all new modern gauges.

But the other biggest problem is, these cars dont make very good drift cars. My girlfriend whos on this site (Keroppi) had one, and the thing was a tank, you could get it sideways, but couldnt hold it just due to the sheer weight of it/underpowered. Mind you it was also probably cuz the car had a viscous LSD and i was mostly gettin 1 wheel peels. But the main thing is, its not a very practical drift car as is, your gonna need to do some serious A. practise, B. car control drills, and C. mods to get the power up and the suspension handeling better. Ive drivin minivans with less body roll than a Mk2.

EDIT: Link to LC Engeniering's webstore

This post has been edited by Valo666: Nov 23, 2008 - 9:23 PM

[soulshadow]

I would use this a Modified car and race it on the dirt tracks with other cars. Nothing like metal to metal crunching.

[83gt]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. To Valo666, i dont mean to be stubborn and not consider your input but the problem with finding a older 20r motor and 22r head and LSD from the 4runner is sourcing the parts. Im sure it is nearly impossible to find any of these that arent beaten to death but ill do more research. If i do come across these parts, would they make enough power?

The 3sgte is now sounding like more of a possibility. They seem relatively cheap and can make solid power. It is also about the same weight as the stock motor. Also, i plan on taking as much out of the rear of the car as possible. Im sure it wont get it down to the weight of a ae86, but it should be close right? I know that the suspension will need to be upgraded, and im sure i will need to fabricate strut and sway bars to reduce body roll as i am sure there are none available. Will the 3s and suspension/body upgrades make for a decent drift car? If it does, trust me ill be practicing haha.

[Random_Stranger]

If you want a unique car to drift with, then sure why not. I don't know much about and honestly have no experience drifting. However, I have noticed I have a good eye for things when I am interested in it, and although may not know the best, can see the weak points of things (or so I would like to believe, as later I find out the ones I favor are actually better if not the best *but not with all things*). Anyways, I would imagine those are pretty hard to drift in like the MR2.

For some reason, I have considered this as well, although all the videos I have seen, it seems the drivers have a hard time turning the car sideways. 240sx, novice or not advance drifters, tend to be able to turn the car sideways when they drift. For this older celica, I see it drift, but doesn't turn sideways so great. Kind of like the Supra (at least the last model chassis), I don't think they make good drift cars because even when they do drift, they are either too powerful or too heavy and can't turn sideways for a more beautiful drift.

That's just me. I would do it with a 240sx for the fact it is more available, more sites to join like this for experience and knowledge handed down, and worst case scenario, you decide later to get another car to do this with, you can easily sell it as someone would like to buy it (even as common as these cars are).

For the rest of the questions and such, I am ignorant on this subject. Just wanted to add that for whatever it is worth.

[Taskbot]

I am going to have to agree with some of the other posts but offer some other suggestions.

This sounds like a really amazing project for a street car and a car you want to show off. Nothing beats an older restored car with a new or built engine in it. However, I wouldn't take it to the track and subject it to any sideways sliding mayhem. Even the best in the business total cars and when its your own money and your own time and its a beautiful project, you do not want to see it destroyed because you entered the corner the wrong way.

If you're looking for a cheap RWD drift car just sneak across the border and pick up a Skyline GTS-t. They're imported here fairly fequently and can be fairly inexpensive. Like $5,000 - $10,000 CAN which would probably be about the amount of money you are looking at for a engine swap that will produce an equivalent amount of power and a RHD conversion.

Up here there is a 15 year rule for imports. All cars over 15 years can be imported legally and certified to be put on the road. So since you want to do a RHD swap, it might be easier to import or buy an imported car up here and it will save you most of the trouble swaping and such, and it also opens up numerous possibilities for drift cars. Old Nissan Skylines, Nissan Silvias, Mazda RX-7s, Toyota Supras, Toyota Soarers, Nissan Laurels, Toyota Mark IIs, Toyota Corolla Levins, even the 3rd gen Celica you want to turn RHD can be imported.

Most of these can be had for the price of a pre-swapped non-damaged 240sx, Supra, or 2JZ-GTE swap and since you're looking for a car for track duty, you don't even have to have it road legal.

[RUNNIN-LOW]

if this is the swap that i think it is then its been done by me and my bro-in-law..we had to use the 7mgte the 1zj doesnt fit or it does but a lot more cutting and welding is required..to fit the 7mgte in the 83-86 celica u have to bash in the side walls and a little cutting and welding on the fire wall..
the rear end wont hold up so u have to do a upgrade n that too..you have to make a custom drive shaft..

going sideways in the car is cool but i wouldnt try it or i mean i didnt i just went straight and that thing was a beast. but this project is doable..

This post has been edited by RUNNIN-LOW: Nov 24, 2008 - 11:06 AM

[83gt]

Ok so until i see the car next week, im gonna hold off on making any more plans. Ive continued to research online and it really doesnt seem like this could become a quality drift car. Im not sure what the exact condition the body of the car is in so ill just have to wait and see.

To taskbot, i am going to be in niagara falls new york next week. Out of curiosity, is there any dealers in canada around the niagara falls area that have the imported cars that you were talking about?

[Taskbot]

I don't know of any in the niagra falls area. Its a little too small of a town to have an importer, though it would be a smart business to run by the border. The closest importer I know of is in Burlington, which is about 40 - 60 minutes away from Niagra falls, and its the particular place that came to mind when I wrote that.

Last time I went by there, they had 5 GTS-t models in grey and black and a few RHD FD3S RX-7s. I also think they may have imported the white Nissan GT-R I see kicking around the suburbs. I haven't been by in a while and I don't think they have a website.

Aside from that, most import shops are in the major cities. Toronto probably has an infinite number of them. I'll see what I can find around here, but most of the classifieds I come across are linking to a place in Quebec. "JDM ENGINE IMPORT".

The website looks a bit sketchy but most import websites do.

This post has been edited by Taskbot: Nov 24, 2008 - 1:31 PM

[83gt]

Quebec is a little far but i may look into the place in Burlington. Again, more researching on how to get the car back into the US, but thanks for the insight. I dont think i have the money for a car and importing fees though...

[supra12big]

nice..

[83gt]

^ huh?

[Taskbot]

nice..

?????

[DEATH]

I'm a huge fan of the 3S-GTE engine and as such I had small idea for you altho it's not fully worked out. The 3S-GTE should bolt up to the tranny used on a JDM IS200 Altezza [Or w/e else names they go by ] since it already came equipped with a BEAMS 3S-GE. This would be a viable tranny option if you did want to use the 3S-GTE in the 3rd Gen GT.
Don't just take my word for granted tho - do some research to be sure.
BTW - I used to own an '84 3rd gen Celica/Supra [MKII Supra] - cool car and nice seats too

[Valo666]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. To Valo666, i dont mean to be stubborn and not consider your input but the problem with finding a older 20r motor and 22r head and LSD from the 4runner is sourcing the parts. Im sure it is nearly impossible to find any of these that arent beaten to death but ill do more research. If i do come across these parts, would they make enough power?

The 3sgte is now sounding like more of a possibility. They seem relatively cheap and can make solid power. It is also about the same weight as the stock motor. Also, i plan on taking as much out of the rear of the car as possible. Im sure it wont get it down to the weight of a ae86, but it should be close right? I know that the suspension will need to be upgraded, and im sure i will need to fabricate strut and sway bars to reduce body roll as i am sure there are none available. Will the 3s and suspension/body upgrades make for a decent drift car? If it does, trust me ill be practicing haha.

They will make a ton of torque, so it will be able to break your wheels loose without a problem. I mean guys are making crazy drag cars and rock crawlers with runnin a carbed 20R motor. As for weight, the 83 celica's curb weight was 2,566 lbs, AE86's curb weight for fully loaded model, 2075 lbs. Its not to say that you cant make these things crazy, but you can. There are some decently quick ones with 7Ms put in them, but it definatly throws the weight off. You could also go out and buy a rear end out of a MKII supra P-type with an LSD.

This is Keroppi's old one...


But heres a couple pics of nice one ive found from some celica club website...

[tomazws]

Wait wait wait... I don't understand...

Why swap a 1J into the tiny bay of the Celica when you can just direct swap it into a 82' Mark II Celica Supra?!?!?!?!?!?! Aren't they the same **** except Toyota has already done the work for you by extending the front end longer for the 6?

[Valo666]

they are the same wheel base, and almost the same length, the supra's front end does come out further and where the rad support is welded is about another 2 inches further out than a celicas. You can fit 1JZ into celicas, but they do require some minor alterations, like cuttin firewalls, engine mounts, supporting the front frame rails and cross member, cuttin into the tranny tunnel/center console, mounting the fan on the otherside of the rad. It can be done, like any thing, just takes time, and alot of $.

[83gt]

Well i didnt come back with the car guys. Its not in running condition right now so i couldnt get it home. Even if it was running i wouldnt have been able to bring it back cuz of the ****ty weather. It looks like this project will have to wait for the spring. Thanks to everyone for their input. This thread will probably help someone else out with a similar project so i think it was worth it. Im sure ill have more questions for you all when i start this up again.

[ra65_22re]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. To Valo666, i dont mean to be stubborn and not consider your input but the problem with finding a older 20r motor and 22r head and LSD from the 4runner is sourcing the parts. Im sure it is nearly impossible to find any of these that arent beaten to death but ill do more research. If i do come across these parts, would they make enough power?

The 3sgte is now sounding like more of a possibility. They seem relatively cheap and can make solid power. It is also about the same weight as the stock motor. Also, i plan on taking as much out of the rear of the car as possible. Im sure it wont get it down to the weight of a ae86, but it should be close right? I know that the suspension will need to be upgraded, and im sure i will need to fabricate strut and sway bars to reduce body roll as i am sure there are none available. Will the 3s and suspension/body upgrades make for a decent drift car? If it does, trust me ill be practicing haha.

They will make a ton of torque, so it will be able to break your wheels loose without a problem. I mean guys are making crazy drag cars and rock crawlers with runnin a carbed 20R motor. As for weight, the 83 celica's curb weight was 2,566 lbs, AE86's curb weight for fully loaded model, 2075 lbs. Its not to say that you cant make these things crazy, but you can. There are some decently quick ones with 7Ms put in them, but it definatly throws the weight off. You could also go out and buy a rear end out of a MKII supra P-type with an LSD.

lol you'll make more power with a 20r head on a 22r motor. it will bump the engines compression. also if u want to get more power out of the 22r toyota made a turbo 22re or if its carb they have a dual side draft carb system out there that looks bad ass. there is an endless amount of parts for that motor you just have to know who to talk to. another thing is if you go with a bigger cam you will need a lot stronger valve springs. that 22r will last forever even with a lot of abuse.

also for the p-type lsd out of the celica supra of the sameyear. its only for the gts of celicas with the irs(independent rear suspension) and even than you need to take the whole rear end not just the pumpkin itself.