Spoilerless people Options

[samir0189]

I took of my stock 2 post spoiler today, and i noticed a HUGE difference in the way the car feels at speeds above ~60 mph. Lighter? More unstable than before? does anyone else feel that difference or is it mind over matter?

[terbear4god4life]

i know what your saying=/

[96bluevert]

Probably all in your head. A stock spoiler won't make much of a difference if any at all.

[samir0189]

I really do want to believe my mind is messing with me but it just feels so wobbly. I was just wondering if anyone else felt the same way. I didn't think a stock spoiler could make that much of a difference either. But now I have second thoughts...

[dgbldr]

Probably less wind noise. I doubt you would feel the weight difference, it's only what, 20-25 lbs? Less stable, no way.

[richee3]

Probably all in your head. A stock spoiler won't make much of a difference if any at all.

Agreed. I took my 3 post off for like two days a while back and didn't notice any difference at all. I think its just a placebo effect.

[samir0189]

Probably less wind noise. I doubt you would feel the weight difference, it's only what, 20-25 lbs? Less stable, no way.

ooh I wasn't referring to the weight of the spoiler itself, its no where near 20lbs at all, 10 at most, that thing is light. I was referring to the way it affects (or does not affect) the car when in motion. the downforce.


And I guess maybe i need to see a psychiatrist cause its sure looking like im insane right now.. lol.

[95st-celica]

take the wing off and go do 80 down the highway and weave a little bit (not out of control and drive wrecklessly) just switch lanes faster then usual...then go home put it back on and go do the same thing...you'll feel a difference...wings are all aerodynamics and meant to push down on the rear end above speeds of 50mph...they are designed to do this...i dont think you were expecting your car to feel this way after removing it so it cant be in your head...we did the same thing with my uncles camaro...with out the 3 section wing the whole @ss end is wobbly...put it back on and its like night and day on the highway going 65+

This post has been edited by 95st-celica: Dec 2, 2008 - 9:56 PM

[bslik]

take the wing off and go do 80 down the highway and weave a little bit (not out of control and drive wrecklessly) just switch lanes faster then usual...then go home put it back on and go do the same thing...you'll feel a difference...wings are all aerodynamics and meant to push down on the rear end above speeds of 50mph...they are designed to do this...i dont think you were expecting your car to feel this way after removing it so it cant be in your head...we did the same thing with my uncles camaro...with out the 3 section wing the whole @ss end is wobbly...put it back on and its like night and day on the highway going 65+

but wouldnt that be slightly related to the drive wheels haveing less traction? where as a fwd celica would have less effect. idk your really making me want to take off my spoiler

[richee3]

And I guess maybe i need to see a psychiatrist kindasad.gif cause its sure looking like im insane right now.. lol.

You aren't looking insane at all. I've thought I felt differences in my car when I haven't at all. Like when I put my short ram intake on it. I wanted the car to feel like it was faster, when it really wasn't. It just made my 5S sound BA

[hockeyplyr24]

i never noticed any difference in mine at all, maybe its all in ur head

[95st-celica]

take the wing off and go do 80 down the highway and weave a little bit (not out of control and drive wrecklessly) just switch lanes faster then usual...then go home put it back on and go do the same thing...you'll feel a difference...wings are all aerodynamics and meant to push down on the rear end above speeds of 50mph...they are designed to do this...i dont think you were expecting your car to feel this way after removing it so it cant be in your head...we did the same thing with my uncles camaro...with out the 3 section wing the whole @ss end is wobbly...put it back on and its like night and day on the highway going 65+

but wouldnt that be slightly related to the drive wheels haveing less traction? where as a fwd celica would have less effect. idk your really making me want to take off my spoiler

its got nothing to do with drive wheels or any of that...its simply putting pressure on the back wheels using the wind to keep the car from getting wobbly...doesnt matter if its fwd rwd or awd it all has the same affect

[twolownissan2002]

I love the spoilerless look lol i think i have a sexy ass lol and doesnt really make a diff. its a front wheel drive car there only there fo looks thats about it

This post has been edited by twolownissan2002: Dec 4, 2008 - 5:40 PM

[samir0189]

i think 95st-celica has a point, it doesnt matter if its rwd or not, the wing still pushes down on the rear, and im not just saying that cause he's the only one who thinks im not crazy.

I do like the spoilerless look, but i have the holes covered with electrical tape for the time being and theres the two plastic things so it looks cruddy.

I took the wing off cause i have raiser blocks that are being painted right now, i get them back in the morning!!!! super excited.

[playr158]

that stock piece does NOTHING ZIP ZERO NADA


you have a mental issue not a mechanical issue.

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 4, 2008 - 7:40 PM

[samir0189]

Yes playr, you may be right, im in denial, lol.

i need to stop finding lame excuses for my insanity.

[SeverX13]

i think its just a placebo effect

x2

placebo effect ftw

This post has been edited by SeverX13: Dec 4, 2008 - 8:08 PM

[95st-celica]

that stock piece does NOTHING ZIP ZERO NADA


you have a mental issue not a mechanical issue.

bro...no offense...but you dont know what your talking about...i have been in vehicles where we purposly took it off and on just to feel the difference and there most certainly is...the more pressure you put on those back wheels and the air flow it creats is strictly to keep the rear end down on the ground and keep it from getting wobbly...this is why most sports cars and high end cars have spoilers on them from the factory...even the 911's and boxers have a piece(i dunno if i would call it a wing or not) that comes out of the rear of the car that "spoils" the air, in essence to push down on the back of the car to handel better at higher speeds...thats why they only come out at around 60 mph...i dont make this sh!t up lol its just a fact and it does what it does...spoils air flow to create more pressure on the back wheels...now im not saying that taking the wing off of a 6g is going to make a huge difference...but if you drive your car everyday on the highway doing 75+ with a wing and then decide to take it off...you WILL feel a slight difference in the way the car performs at high speeds.

[dlx742]

that stock piece does NOTHING ZIP ZERO NADA


you have a mental issue not a mechanical issue.

bro...no offense...but you dont know what your talking about...i have been in vehicles where we purposly took it off and on just to feel the difference and there most certainly is...the more pressure you put on those back wheels and the air flow it creats is strictly to keep the rear end down on the ground and keep it from getting wobbly...this is why most sports cars and high end cars have spoilers on them from the factory...even the 911's and boxers have a piece(i dunno if i would call it a wing or not) that comes out of the rear of the car that "spoils" the air, in essence to push down on the back of the car to handel better at higher speeds...thats why they only come out at around 60 mph...i dont make this sh!t up lol its just a fact and it does what it does...spoils air flow to create more pressure on the back wheels...now im not saying that taking the wing off of a 6g is going to make a huge difference...but if you drive your car everyday on the highway doing 75+ with a wing and then decide to take it off...you WILL feel a slight difference in the way the car performs at high speeds.

you are right. anything that you put to slow the air down is going to create more force pushing your car down. slower velocity = more pressure

[playr158]

you people make me giggle. i KNOW EXACTLY what down force and a wing and how it is created.
and NO its not slower velocity

wings create down force by HIGHER velocity of air under the wing than over the wing. This creates a LOW pressure zone below the wing and a HIGH pressure zone above the wing, thus giving down force.
(this effect is not only used for wings, but if you look at McLaren F1, Saleen S7, Ferrari Enzo...they all have smooth as possible under bodies (Saleen having a full carbon paneled under carriage) to INCREASE the velocity of the air traveling under the car. The faster the air the lower the pressure and the more down force created, this is how the S7 in particular is able to generate twice its body weight in down force)

boxer's.....you want to see the wing we put on my friend's 911 GT3 thats functional, or maybe the 3-series MOD class race car I worked on.

next time you want to tell someone they don't know what they are talking about at least use real terms "spoils air"
Just because you stick something back there doesn't mean its functional and helping you. It has to actually be correct.


my point is the 2 post and 3 post celica spoilers are non-function visual pieces. the GT4 wing however is mildly functional.

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 5, 2008 - 12:38 AM

[bccentaur3]

OWNED!!!!!

[twolownissan2002]

LOL THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING!! YOU JUST BET ME TO IT

[samir0189]

lol, you guys are crazy. i didn't intend for this to turn into an aerodynamics debate, all i was saying was i've been driving my car for 4ish years with the 2 post and it seemed different w/o it, and i was j/w if anyone who has done a wing/wingless comparison first hand on the celi hatchback also noticed a difference.

We can sit here and speculate and define all day, its not like anyone has wind tunnel results or solid evidence that these wings do anything when applied specifically to the 6gc. It could very well be a placebo effect, or maybe the spoiler does something.

anywayyyyyyy! i got my raiser blocks back from painting!!!

ill post up pics later when i get them installed.

[playr158]

errr...i actually took off my spoiler and there was 0 effect homey

go read the aerodynamics thread i wrote this morning, none of my posts are "speculation".

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 5, 2008 - 2:42 PM

[samir0189]

I did read your aerodynamics thread just a few moments ago playr. It was very informative, and like i said, it defines what aerodynamics are and how they function, which i have a decent handle on it think.

That's fine if you don't think you felt a difference. thats all i was really asking in this thread.

But as i said before we don't have solid evidence (unless you do.. ) against the wing being functional besides all of us going back and forth saying "sure it makes a difference" or "no it does not", and that i am insane, which i'm not denying as a possibility either, lol.

I did find this link some time ago and an engineer from TTE is describing the functionality of the wing on the celica, but I don't quite understand what he is saying regarding the downforce, if he means to say that the wing in the low position (2 post) gives 5 times 50kg of downforce vs the gt4 wing, or does he mean the other way around? Or is he making crap up? lol. If you could clarify that if you understand it i would be grateful.

http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/tte_ST205.htm

"We are expecting to sell around 2500 examples in Japan alone with the pieces in place. The amount of downforce is influenced byride height and we still have to carry out wind tunnel tests, but it's expected that there will be 50 kg of downforce at 100 kph with the wing in the up position, and maybe five times more than that with the wing at the low position."

But once again, he is speculating, they intended to do wind tunnel tests, no solid results.

[playr158]

^interesting

[jimmykay]

The amount of downforce is influenced by ride height and we still have to carry out wind tunnel tests, but it's expected that there will be 50 kg of downforce at 100 kph with the wing in the up position, and maybe five times more than that with the wing at the low position."

Basicly, they assume that with the risers on the spoiler, it will produce 50kg (110lbs) of down force on the rear wheels when going 100kph (about 60)
In the low position they assume about 10kg of force (22lbs) gained.

[Goonter]

I love the spoilerless look lol i think i have a sexy ass lol and doesnt really make a diff. its a front wheel drive car there only there fo looks thats about it

^ scammer

[ajlee]

This sounds like a thread for Mythbusters. Has anyone ever thought of posing this questions to these guys? If not I may e-mail it to their website.

[BonzaiCelica]

i think the gt-4 and ss-III style spoiler would be effective at speeds of over 100mph.

[solidxsnake]

you people make me giggle. i KNOW EXACTLY what down force and a wing and how it is created.
and NO its not slower velocity

wings create down force by HIGHER velocity of air under the wing than over the wing. This creates a LOW pressure zone below the wing and a HIGH pressure zone above the wing, thus giving down force.
(this effect is not only used for wings, but if you look at McLaren F1, Saleen S7, Ferrari Enzo...they all have smooth as possible under bodies (Saleen having a full carbon paneled under carriage) to INCREASE the velocity of the air traveling under the car. The faster the air the lower the pressure and the more down force created, this is how the S7 in particular is able to generate twice its body weight in down force)

boxer's.....you want to see the wing we put on my friend's 911 GT3 thats functional, or maybe the 3-series MOD class race car I worked on.

next time you want to tell someone they don't know what they are talking about at least use real terms "spoils air"
Just because you stick something back there doesn't mean its functional and helping you. It has to actually be correct.


my point is the 2 post and 3 post celica spoilers are non-function visual pieces. the GT4 wing however is mildly functional.

While I agree that the spoiler on a 6gc probably does next to nothing, you described a wing, and not a spoiler.

Wings are designed to increase downforce, at the cost of creating drag (due to Bernoulli's principle). Spoilers aim to reduce drag.