Lower Drinking Age? Options

[cnelson]

Not sure if this has already been brought up or not.. However I am bored, and have always thought that this was a good topic to debate on.


Recently I started my freshmen year at college. I'm going to Coastal Carolina University, if anyone lives around the Myrtle Beach area you probably know that nearly are whole football team was suspended due to alcohol related incidents. I have been a "legal" adult for over a year now. I just turned 19 a couple weeks ago. Being away at school my parents and myself both knew I was going to drink. I guess my family is very open and my parents trust me enough not to make any decisions to put myself or others at risk. I have been drinking probably since I was about 16.. Always socially, not by myself or anything like that. So lets say I am.. "Drinking Responsibly"

Now I, more than most probably understand the need for laws. I also understand the need for equality. Although I know no one can ever truly win this argument I believe that I have some good points that I would like to get off my chest..

We can start off with a few simple points. The whole.. "If I'm old enough to die for my country, be convicted for a crime, pay child support etc.. at 18, than why am I not old enough to drink?" This is probably the most influential point anyone can make.. Look if I can go fight a war, but I can't drink a damn beer. Someone has there facts mixed up, because last time I checked fighting a war is much more dangerous than drinking a beer, or even a few beers for that matter.

I know a lot of people think that teenagers are not responsible enough to drink, and do it with a adult manner. WRONG. A lot of people also think that teenagers don't care about drinking and driving. WRONG. The fact of the matter is, I am right in the crowd with these very people.. Of all the things I always see, the one I see most is.. Friends not letting another friend drive home because he's had to much to drink, or giving someone a ride home because you know there is no way you would want them to drive, or someone asking for a ride home because they know there is no way they should be driving.

My final point is simply this.. People are going to drink and drive at any age, 21, 31, 41, 51, 91. It doesn't make a difference. The only thing that makes a difference is if we are properly educated about the risks with drinking and drive. My message is, Stop throwing the issue under the table by saying teens aren't responsible enough. Start by educating people, teaching them that you can drink and still maintain a right state of mind.

I know there will always be people who disagree, and I'm sure there will be many people who do not like my comments, and people who agree with me. I would like to make a change, and although I am only one young person.. We are growing in numbers everyday. Right now politicians may be able to ignore us because we aren't the majority vote, However soon enough our voice will be heard and questions will not be able to be thrown away. One day we will have a common voice as young people, who can make a difference on any situation, not just the drinking age. Thanks for any comments you may have.

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:07 PM

[RickJamesBish]

Holland's/Switzerland's system FTW.

Beer/wine = 16
Any other spirits = 18

This post has been edited by RickJamesBish: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:19 PM

[manphibian]

Not all of Europe.

18 for all here. I think that's about right....

[cnelson]

Yupp... and last time I looked Europe wasn't falling apart due to someone having a beer under the age of 18. Its just a shame because there are such more important things the American government could spend money on, other than fighting off underage drinking.

[Supersprynt]

Most everything is backwards in the US. You can drive at 14 in some areas of the states, but can't drink til 21? So you can operate a heavy motor vehicle capable of killing people but it's illegal to have some beers hmm, right.

Honestly - I think you should be able to drink at 16, drive at 18. This way you learn how to handle alcohol by the time you are driving. At 21, you're 3 years past "adult" and driving is an everyday thing, yet you are new to mind-altering substance. Makes sense.

[D-Man]

Good point. But h'm well over 21 so i don't really give a damn.

If this topic comes up to vote though; I'll goto bat for you. Otherwise keep standing outside the gas station and hollar "Hey Mr." when i walk by

[RickJamesBish]

Sprynt, that's the system used in Europe as well..can't drive till you're 18, and that's when you start the driving lesson process...license doesn't come till later.

[cnelson]

Ha, well after doing some more research.. nine states have tried to pass laws to make the minimum age 18 again. Not sure what nine states those were.

It disgusts me how on the MADD website.. Mothers against drunk driving. They blame parents for the problem. Its not the parents. Its the law. I get so angry when I read up on these types of things. Man it just makes we want to go stick it to the man, however I know that being a child about and cursing everyone off, probably isn't going to get to much done except maybe a couple tickets.

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:30 PM

[njccmd2002]

i respect your opinion but some points.

2 years from now, this wont even matter to you.

but seriously. Drinking, no matter how you see it, is never responsible. whether you are 99 years. Too many health consequences, on it self. End stage liver disease is not fun. billions of dollars of health tax dollars.

In reality the geriatric population is the one that will crowd the stadium seats.

Does it really matter, i dont drink, so really i dont care. but i guess for many its imperative to drink.

Just my .02

wow too many replies.

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:32 PM

[forkee]

alcohol is harmful to the body and affects its functions. it can also create long term damage in growing bodies. some people mature at a later age than others. 21 is safer than 18, especially for females. if anyone went to me to complain about drinking age vs. smoking or fighting in the war, i would raise them to 21, not lower drinking age. easy as that.

[cnelson]

Respect both your opinions. Forkee you bring up a great point.. But as for smoking goes, thats a whole other topic itself.

[GriffGirl]

Ha, well after doing some more research.. nine states have tried to pass laws to make the minimum age 18 again. Not sure what nine states those were.

It disgusts me how on the MADD website.. Mothers against drunk driving. They blame parents for the problem. Its not the parents. Its the law. I get so angry when I read up on these types of things. Man it just makes we want to go stick it to the man, however I know that being a child about and cursing everyone off, probably isn't going to get to much done except maybe a couple tickets.

How is it the law that's the problem, and not the parents? That's totally skewed logic. When I was growing up, the drinking age was still 18 in D.C. - a short half hour drive from where I grew up. So we went to DC to get alcohol. Kids still died in alcohol related accidents, even though they were drinking "legally". It's illegal to own a gun without a permit. So if people get shot and killed in a drive-by, it's the law's fault?

It's the responsibility of parents to teach their kids to have a healthy respect for things that can do harm to themselves or others. This means that it's the responsibility of parents to teach their kids about gun safety, driving safety, and using alcohol responsibly. You say you use it responsibly? Well who do you think you have to thank for that? Who taught you that?

The simple fact is that a good majority of alcohol-related deaths and injuries happen to young people. Not just car accidents, I mean alcohol-related in general. Lots of teenagers drinking too much. So yeah, I'm okay with the law being 21. Did I personally respect or abide by that law? No, I sure as hell didn't. But I'm a lot older than you now and I can easily look back and some of the colossally stupid sh1t I did and say that I'm pretty lucky something bad didn't happen to me. Having that perspective, I can honestly support the law being 21. We have a different culture than in Europe, that's why 18 didn't work for us in the first place.

Oh, and as for the legal age to drive? I also think 16 is too young. I also agree that it's totally hypocritical that you can die for your country and vote but not drink at 18. But that doesn't mean the drinking age should be the thing to change.

[Supersprynt]

If you can buy cigarettes, which are addictive, at 18, there's no reason to not be able to buy alcohol on account of the health concerns.

Also - what happened to freedom? I can understand laws that help protect the public but just because something isn't exactly healthy doesn't mean there should be a law against it. The same thing can be said for McDonalds, microwaves, OTC drugs... cigarettes cause plenty of deaths, but it's still 18.

I hate smoking. HATE it. I can't stand it, and I wish nobody did it; but I can't tell someone they can't smoke.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:51 PM

[mrgrape]

If you can buy cigarettes, which are addictive, at 18, there's no reason to not be able to buy alcohol on account of the health concerns.

Also - what happened to freedom? I can understand laws that help protect the public but just because something isn't exactly healthy doesn't mean there should be a law against it. The same thing can be said for McDonalds, microwaves, OTC drugs... cigarettes cause plenty of deaths, but it's still 18.

I hate smoking. HATE it. I can't stand it, and I wish nobody did it; but I can't tell someone they can't smoke.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

i think cigarettes are completely stupid. alcohol is pretty bad too though occasionally it can be good for a couple celebrations but i hate dumb drunk bitches.
and i cant see how marijuana is illegal compared to these things.

[Rayme]

I think the thing with drinking age is the bar owners doesn't want any 16 years old teeny boppers in their facility...very understandable..lol.

However I think it should be 18 years old or tied with the "independant age" of each locations for the sake of keeping things simple.

Everybody under the age limit drink anyway, so having a law really doesn't change anything...when I was a teen my parents never told me "dont drink, it's the law", they just told me to be responsable and to know the dangers. The law doesn't come into play unless you are dumb enough to be "caught", and if you are responsible, getting caught shouldn't be that bad, at worst (at least around here) the cop will bring you to your parents(or hospital at worst! LOL), unless you got into a battle and did other illegal things.

PS: On another note, I think POT should be made legal and just as available as cigarette..the wide usage and illegality creates waay more problems than if it was legal...if you think on it and compare it to alchohol, it makes no sense why it is illegal (except politics). Heck I know more people that uses pot than tobbaco, and alot of people get criminal records just for smoking a natural plant..!

This post has been edited by Rayme: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:08 PM

[D-Man]

Ha, well after doing some more research.. nine states have tried to pass laws to make the minimum age 18 again. Not sure what nine states those were.

It disgusts me how on the MADD website.. Mothers against drunk driving. They blame parents for the problem. Its not the parents. Its the law. I get so angry when I read up on these types of things. Man it just makes we want to go stick it to the man, however I know that being a child about and cursing everyone off, probably isn't going to get to much done except maybe a couple tickets.

How is it the law that's the problem, and not the parents? That's totally skewed logic. When I was growing up, the drinking age was still 18 in D.C. - a short half hour drive from where I grew up. So we went to DC to get alcohol. Kids still died in alcohol related accidents, even though they were drinking "legally". It's illegal to own a gun without a permit. So if people get shot and killed in a drive-by, it's the law's fault?

It's the responsibility of parents to teach their kids to have a healthy respect for things that can do harm to themselves or others. This means that it's the responsibility of parents to teach their kids about gun safety, driving safety, and using alcohol responsibly. You say you use it responsibly? Well who do you think you have to thank for that? Who taught you that?

The simple fact is that a good majority of alcohol-related deaths and injuries happen to young people. Not just car accidents, I mean alcohol-related in general. Lots of teenagers drinking too much. So yeah, I'm okay with the law being 21. Did I personally respect or abide by that law? No, I sure as hell didn't. But I'm a lot older than you now and I can easily look back and some of the colossally stupid sh1t I did and say that I'm pretty lucky something bad didn't happen to me. Having that perspective, I can honestly support the law being 21. We have a different culture than in Europe, that's why 18 didn't work for us in the first place.

Oh, and as for the legal age to drive? I also think 16 is too young. I also agree that it's totally hypocritical that you can die for your country and vote but not drink at 18. But that doesn't mean the drinking age should be the thing to change.

i have to agree that parents NEED to take responsibility with their kids. My folks never cared that i drank starting at 15 when i came home drunk one night. They told me that if i wanted to drink then i needed to stay home. I could drink all i wanted at my house, i just couldn't leave after i opened my first w/e i was drinking. Same went for my friends. They could come over and get as sh!t faced as they wanted as long as we came up with some loot; and parents gave the "Okay". and if i wanted to go get hammered at my friends place, Same rules applied.

They taught me that after i started drinking, i didn't need to be driving any where, or really going out doing anything. as a result i've never got hit with PI; and usualy leave the bars right before one so that i can stop and pick up another 6 or so (because i really do drink alot) but i wont get HAMMERED in public. Even at a bar, i will not drink so much that i loose my composure. Ever. Thanks to my mamma slaping the sh!t out of me and laying down the law when i was 15. ( it's funny that my mom slaped and lexured, then my dad was pooring me and him a shot of jack )

But MADD does get carried away too.

I think the thing with drinking age is the bar owners doesn't want any 16 years old teeny boppers in their facility...very understandable..lol.

Jailbait should not be allowed in such establishments. For that fact of matter; 16 year old kids get WAY wasted WAY fast and do WAY stupid things. That's deff an issue. I see no problem with 18, but 16 is still too immature.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:07 PM

[Supersprynt]

I agree with keeping them out of bars - but if you can drink at 16 and drive at 18 - they can't get there!

[GriffGirl]

If you can buy cigarettes, which are addictive, at 18, there's no reason to not be able to buy alcohol on account of the health concerns.

Also - what happened to freedom? I can understand laws that help protect the public but just because something isn't exactly healthy doesn't mean there should be a law against it. The same thing can be said for McDonalds, microwaves, OTC drugs... cigarettes cause plenty of deaths, but it's still 18.

I hate smoking. HATE it. I can't stand it, and I wish nobody did it; but I can't tell someone they can't smoke.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

Good point about McDonald's, microwaves, OTC drugs, cigarettes...

So really the issue at hand is about personal accountability and responsibility, not about what the law dictates. (which again, in my opinion, falls back on parents and it being their duty to teach their kids these values.)

So when our society can, as a whole, learn to be responsible and actually be accountable, I'm all for the drinking age being 18. I just don't see how changing it at this point in time would change anything.

This post has been edited by GriffGirl: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:16 PM

[Supersprynt]

To put it another way - when does the law being age 21 STOP you from drinking? Has anybody ever said "no thanks that's illegal"? Hell when I went to Oneonta for college orientation I was 17 years old. Look at my pics that I posted, I don't look 26, I barely look 21; so imagine me at 17. We had people waving us into bars. I was drinking in a bar at 17 years old and I was invited in.

I was drinking at 16 at an after-dance party with the girls parents there because they knew it was going to happen and wanted to prevent drunken driving.

You can carry a gun at 18 years old, a GUN... please tell me where the logic behind this all is.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:22 PM

[GriffGirl]

To put it another way - when does the law being age 21 STOP you from drinking? Has anybody ever said "no thanks that's illegal"? Hell when I went to Oneonta for college orientation I was 17 years old. Look at my pics that I posted, I don't look 26, I barely look 21; so imagine me at 17. We had people waving us into bars. I was drinking in a bar at 17 years old and I was invited in.

I was drinking at 16 at an after-dance party with the girls parents there because they knew it was going to happen and wanted to prevent drunken driving.

You can carry a gun at 18 years old, a GUN... please tell me where the logic behind this all is.

I've been that parent myself—for exactly that reason. Not to necessarily condone it, but knowing it was going to happen anyway, I'd rather be there to make sure no one drives off than turn a blind eye to it and hope for the best. I also was young when I started going to bars. By the time I started actually going to bars and clubs, I'd moved to NYC and I was getting in at 16 easily without ever being carded.

As for the logic behind the gun... well, you can legally carry a gun at 18 but at least you can't legally get drunk while carrying that gun (I'm being facetious) You're right though, there's not a lot of logic in it. But alcohol isn't a right protected by the constitution while carrying a gun is, so I guess that's how that one stacks up.

[D-Man]

Has anybody ever said "no thanks that's illegal"?

ROFL!!

[Rayme]

To put it another way - when does the law being age 21 STOP you from drinking? Has anybody ever said "no thanks that's illegal"? Hell when I went to Oneonta for college orientation I was 17 years old. Look at my pics that I posted, I don't look 26, I barely look 21; so imagine me at 17. We had people waving us into bars. I was drinking in a bar at 17 years old and I was invited in.

I was drinking at 16 at an after-dance party with the girls parents there because they knew it was going to happen and wanted to prevent drunken driving.

You can carry a gun at 18 years old, a GUN... please tell me where the logic behind this all is.

Don't ask that question? Theres no logic in politics!

[D-Man]

But alcohol isn't a right protected by the constitution while carrying a gun is, so I guess that's how that one stacks up.

Touche...

What the hell were our fore-fathers thinking

[RickJamesBish]

I agree on the parent's accountability part- mine do the same.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

legal age is 18 for drinking and gambling in australia.

sux its 21 for you guys.

[cnelson]

JUST SO ALL THE PARENTS ON HERE ARE AWARE....

Theres a new huge crack down on parents who host, or knowingly allow there children to host parties where people underage kids are drinking. "Parents who host lose the most"

Now even with that being said my parents let me throw parties whenever I really like, as long as whoever drinks stays over. And everyone coming knows this.. But it still makes me nervous, for my 19th birthday I had a HUGE kegger.. Now I know some people slipped out who were drinking. I didn't go running after them, had they been in no condition to drive I would have. But having seen some commercials for "Parents who host lose the most" on T.V, well I won't be throwing any more parties.. I'd rather not have my parents be responsible for 30 other kids, and me at the same time.

So now its to the point where even when you think you are trying to be safe and do the right thing as a parents the government still has a foot in the door saying.. "No, No this is bad".

My real question is, when does it end? And when do we get some kind of freedom? If you let your kid drink in your own home, than so be it. The government should have absolutely no say in if its allowed or not.


ALTHOUGH; Pretty much all my friends are 18. So if they get caught are my parents still at fault? Because the law says there legal, they can make there own decisions and look after themselves.. See this is where things get kind of hairy.
(Assuming my parents didn't buy us the alcohol.)

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 15, 2008 - 6:27 PM

[RickJamesBish]

But then you can get into a whole other facet of the argument, let's say private (at home) drinking at 18 and publicly at 21.

But that still won't solve anything, it'll just perpetuate the problem to another scale.

[soulshadow]

Most everything is backwards in the US. You can drive at 14 in some areas of the states, but can't drink til 21? So you can operate a heavy motor vehicle capable of killing people but it's illegal to have some beers hmm, right.

Honestly - I think you should be able to drink at 16, drive at 18. This way you learn how to handle alcohol by the time you are driving. At 21, you're 3 years past "adult" and driving is an everyday thing, yet you are new to mind-altering substance. Makes sense.

I've seen tons of ppl going off road, crashing to one another and doing some stupid stuff because they are drunk. The legal age to drive at 14 doesn't mean that they can drive by themself they still need an adult in the car at all times or they will get a hefty fine if caught.

Drinking at any age is not the problem, its what the people do as drunks at the age that results in problems. The law is mearly just a guide line for people to follow so that they don't Hurt themself and others, but if not kept in check or balanced you will pay the price.

I think its ok to drink and get drunk as long as you so do it in your own house!

[LewFX]

i say raise the age of smoking and leave it at 21 for drinking. why do kids feel like they should be allowed to drink anyways. you are KIDS until you grow the hell up and try not to be a college student. Seems like all the kids want to do is grow up too fast and use excuses.

[razor7]

Here's my .02

This is a chart of LD50s. The "LD50" is the dose of a substance that will kill a selected species of experimental animal 50% of the time.

All LD50's are normalized to milligrams/Kilogram of animal's body weight.

"Typical Human Dose" info is taken from various sources, including "Burger's Medicinal Chemistry", "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs", "The Merck Manual", "NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances", cigarette packages, No-Doz bottles, etc.

The NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances also lists most published LD50 measurements, but does so uncritically. It's quite useful as a point of reference.




Just compare Psilo, MDMA, THC, and mescaline to that of Caffeine.

Also, for instance, 46 mg/kg of LSD seems very very fatal compared to the other substances, but that's the equivalent of taking 34,500 hits if you are a 165 pound male. (that is based on 100 mic hits)

This is also one of the most common myths that's associated with Marijuana and driving. This is taken from Erowid;

6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways

Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair
performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the
effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it
poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal
accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana
was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In
other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on
marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave
a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol
relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer
examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people
intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For
people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than
for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other
research using completely different methods. For example, an
economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana
usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana
possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in
alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased.
This would suggest that, far from causing "carnage", legal
marijuana might actually save lives.


Along with another misconception, that Marijuana could be lethal in large doses.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose

This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying
attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of
cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led
scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids
necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to
the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words,
to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much
marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for
alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how
upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no
one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.

While I won't argue any points, I'm just going to leave it off here. Honestly consider what you're doing to your body and it's effects.

-TC

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

what you guys start driving on the road at 14? 16 here

[Muggs]

I won't get started on smoking/military service/driving... but I think 21 is a reasonable age for drinking. I've had my battles with alcoholism on and off since I was 15 or so. Only recently (in my mid-20s) I am able to better control it.

The stuff can be very addictive, especially to youngsters.

[Lil-Joe101]

YEah its 20 to drink and gamble in here in Oki.

[mitchy]

legal age is 18 for drinking and gambling in australia.

sux its 21 for you guys.

yeh and Krudd thinks its smart to deter teenagers from binge drinking by raising the price of pre-mix spirits hahah wat a joke, people i know now go out and buy straight spirits so once theyve mixed a few they just drink it straight, thats reeeaaalll smart.

all countries should use this "if you can drive by yourself, you should be mature enough to buy and drink alcohol"

that would mean i could buy it hahah but ill just have to wait till september 09

[97celiman]

mrgrape...again with the comments

i dunno being 18 i think itd be nice to have a shiner every now and then (blue moon is yummy too ) and i definitely agree with the whole dying for your country mantra-i however unlike many of the kids in my socio economic class of rich white kid suburbia, have never felt the need to go out and get ****-faced, i just dont get how thats fun. the idea of not being aware of my surroundings scares me. Now that being said please dont think the temptation isnt there, my father is a winol and makes, collects, stores, drinks, all types of wine and we have just about and hard liquor you could think of so i suppose if i wanted to i could drink

i like what europe does, drinking wine and beer at 16 and driving, fighting, everything else at 18
i dunno i guess ive been scared straight cuz im to afraid of the consequences, id be the guy who had like 3 beers max then drove all the wasted home (after circling the blocks a few times and asking for "gas" money) i know that if the drinking age was lowered id be able to be responsible with it

my grand total so far is 11 beers, 3 flutes of champagne, and a glass of wine... 3 of those beers the champagne and wine were at the gparents 50th wedding anniversary/reunion/everyone over the age of 21 was out of it and my not-so-together aunt was pouring me real champagne

im just a huge boozer

[mrgrape]

Here's my .02

This is a chart of LD50s. The "LD50" is the dose of a substance that will kill a selected species of experimental animal 50% of the time.

All LD50's are normalized to milligrams/Kilogram of animal's body weight.

"Typical Human Dose" info is taken from various sources, including "Burger's Medicinal Chemistry", "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs", "The Merck Manual", "NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances", cigarette packages, No-Doz bottles, etc.

The NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances also lists most published LD50 measurements, but does so uncritically. It's quite useful as a point of reference.




Just compare Psilo, MDMA, THC, and mescaline to that of Caffeine.

Also, for instance, 46 mg/kg of LSD seems very very fatal compared to the other substances, but that's the equivalent of taking 34,500 hits if you are a 165 pound male. (that is based on 100 mic hits)

This is also one of the most common myths that's associated with Marijuana and driving. This is taken from Erowid;

6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways

Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair
performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the
effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it
poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal
accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana
was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In
other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on
marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave
a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol
relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer
examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people
intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For
people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than
for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other
research using completely different methods. For example, an
economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana
usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana
possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in
alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased.
This would suggest that, far from causing "carnage", legal
marijuana might actually save lives.


Along with another misconception, that Marijuana could be lethal in large doses.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose

This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying
attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of
cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led
scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids
necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to
the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words,
to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much
marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for
alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how
upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no
one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.

While I won't argue any points, I'm just going to leave it off here. Honestly consider what you're doing to your body and it's effects.

-TC

exactly my point

[D-Man]

i however unlike many of the kids in my socio economic class of rich white kid suburbia, have never felt the need to go out and get ****-faced

And people like you are the reason i see no problem with 18 being able to drink.

But i still feel that 16 is too young for UNRESTRICTED drinking & bar scenes. Sorry guys, but i remember all of the stupid shi~ that i did at that age And lord know's i'd be dead in a ditch if i wasn't watching my A~ extra carefully to avoid "seeming" intoxicated; as to avoid getting in any trouble.

[Taskbot]

Hmm I think the drinking age should be lowered. Well at least here. In my experience the legal age just means that minors here have to engage in somewhat illegal activities to get alcohol. I was certainly paying people to grab me a twixer (26er) of vodka when I was 17. At 18 people I knew were making frequent trips to Quebec, where you can buy at 18. So it doesn't seem to protect minors from getting alcohol, which is kind of the purpose of making it a law. Also, its actually easier to find drugs here as a minor than it is to find alcohol. Far easier. Actually its not really uncommon for you to walk outside of a door and find people in the middle of a session and inviting you to join. This is most certainly something to do with the city I live in, but its still pretty interesting. Lastly, no matter what age. The first two years of having alcohol availability from my experience are the years you will drink the heaviest. Up until a year ago, I was considered by definition and alcoholic in that I binge drank 12 or more times a year. I also used to be part of the LD50 club ( > 0.35 BAC). My friends and I would drink a twixer each and THEN go to a bar for 3 or 4 pitchers. Needless to say after experiences like that we've curbed our drinking habits. However most people aren't as extreme* as that and will drink a little more moderately and eventually drink less. Its also Canada so its generally more acceptable to binge drink and I'm almost certain we can handle alcohol better than most, by virtue of our culture.

* Btw by extreme, I think I am basing my definition of off one person I know, who ended up in emergency with 0.60 BAC. He wasn't there for Alcohol poisoning though, we was there because he got a concussion from falling off his porch. After he got back he slept for 3 days waking only to get food and water. It was kind of funny, I'm surprised he's still alive.

[D-Man]

Also, its actually easier to find drugs here as a minor than it is to find alcohol. Far easier. Actually its not really uncommon for you to walk outside of a door and find people in the middle of a session and inviting you to join.

Oooh; i have to X2 this statement. But i always liked drinking more than most other stuff; as a result, after I finaly turned 21; i believe i've done ALOT less of that other stuff (the herbal supliment and pharmasuiticals were gone almost instantly I've probably induldged only a few times a year for the last several years. And it was just because i smelled it and wanted in Even then i didn't sip but a little bit)

Everything else though is completely unrelated.

(why has my spell check stoped working? i know i didn't spell some of those words right... WTF? I swear i'm not high or drunk right now. My CPU is being screwy again. My apoligies for the crap spelling.)

[Legit94GT]

As far as the gun thing goes, yes you can by a rifle at 18, not a handgun, its kinda hard to walk down the middle of the street with a rifle in your hands with out gettting the cops called on you. Handguns are 21.

The drinking age is fine where it is, at 21. It does suck for those of us who are under 21, like me... However i think they should change some of the rules that are around it.

Parents who let their kids(and other kids) stay at their house, supervising shouldn't get in any trobule, that is silly. Kids will be kids, we will get booze and drugs, you just can't avoid it, and thinking you can is just naive. So why are we punishing the parents who are actively doing something to make sure that their kids are drinking in a controlled situation. Key word is parents(or legal guardians)

We give permits to drive, that require you to have a parent or someone older than 21(depending on states) so that the kid can learn to drive with someone who has been there before. Yet when it comes to drinking we punish the older people, I understand that it is breaking the law, and thats what they should change. Not the age. We all do stupid stuff but I think that if we change the laws that would allow for parents to supervise their kids they would be less likely to drink and drive, less likely to drink way to much, and less of chance for girls to get raped and guys to get in fights.

If the bars and clubs let you drink at 16 there would be way way way to much jail bait in those places! If you wanna make it 18 thats one thing, but not 16, that is just way to young.

Just my opinion

[Supersprynt]

As far as the gun thing goes, yes you can by a rifle at 18, not a handgun, its kinda hard to walk down the middle of the street with a rifle in your hands with out gettting the cops called on you. Handguns are 21.

To buy is 21, to possess is 18.

[D-Man]

The drinking age is fine where it is, at 21. It does suck for those of us who are under 21, like me... However i think they should change some of the rules that are around it.

Parents who let their kids(and other kids) stay at their house, supervising shouldn't get in any trobule, that is silly. Kids will be kids, we will get booze and drugs, you just can't avoid it, and thinking you can is just naive. So why are we punishing the parents who are actively doing something to make sure that their kids are drinking in a controlled situation. Key word is parents(or legal guardians)

We give permits to drive, that require you to have a parent or someone older than 21(depending on states) so that the kid can learn to drive with someone who has been there before. Yet when it comes to drinking we punish the older people, I understand that it is breaking the law, and thats what they should change. Not the age. We all do stupid stuff but I think that if we change the laws that would allow for parents to supervise their kids they would be less likely to drink and drive, less likely to drink way to much, and less of chance for girls to get raped and guys to get in fights.

As a parent myself; i have to admit that that'd be a great way of doing things. But here in texas (atleast when i was a kid) it is/was legal to give your kid alcohol on your own property. I hope that hasen't and dosen't change.

[Nial]

In the UK you can drink at 16 and buy at 18....we have a huge drink related problem with violence....binge drinking (drinking huge amounts in a short period) and alcohol related illnesses......do you really want the same problems?

[96bluevert]

I think 21 is the right age for someone to be legal to drink. Most people are not responsible enouph at the age of 16-18 imo to have the right to buy and drink alcohol and be safe about it. I know if I was able to buy alcohol at 16, it wouldn't have been good. lol. Even at 21, some people aren't ready for the responsibilty just yet (but I believe the majority are).

[Supersprynt]

You shouldn't be able to buy at 16, but here in the states we also have a problem when college kids go away to school and start drinking. Nobody waits until they're 21 when they are in college; alcohol is so easy to get.

[GriffGirl]

In the UK you can drink at 16 and buy at 18....we have a huge drink related problem with violence....binge drinking (drinking huge amounts in a short period) and alcohol related illnesses......do you really want the same problems?

That's in the UK though, not all of Europe, that problem, right? I think it would be a similar phenomenon here... in regions that are similar to the UK like here where I am in the Pacific Northwest, I think there would be more alcohol related problems with kids than maybe in California, or anywhere from the middle to the southern thirds of the country, where it's not so gray and rainy for so many months of the year. I actually think a lot of that is weather related in how it affects your mood.

I also want to go on record as saying that I am completely 100% in favor of legalizing marijuana. I know that's not the topic here, but it's been brought up so I thought I'd touch on it too. I don't personally use it much at all, maybe once a year on average. I just don't care much about it either way. But I have no objection to it being legalized - it's absolutely true that you see FAR fewer marijuana related accidents and illnesses than you do with alcohol. You never hear about some pot head beating his wife up or going on a shooting rampage at a McDonald's.

As for the legal age of using it however, I think it should be consistent with whatever the legal drinking age is. If there was a massive government-funded campaign to educate, I mean really EDUCATE and not use fear-mongering tactics, kids and adults about alcohol use, and destigmatize it, I think there could be the possibility for a healthy respect for alcohol and the age limit could be lowered. Same for marijuana. I very firmly believe that if alcohol and pot wasn't made to be so alluring by putting tight restrictions on it, and not talking openly about it, it'd be far less of an issue.

[RickJamesBish]

The biggest problem here is that kids can't control themselves...it's been said in this thread that the system is backwards, and I agree. You should be able to drink before you can drive, so that you know how you react under alcohol (not that I'm saying you should drink and drive), but being thrown into a situation where you can drink publicly at 21 might cause people to think they're okay to drive. Now, my parents (and parents in general in Europe) taught me and my brother that if we were going to drink, to not overdo it and to not be stupid about it. Over there, we also had more public transportation, so getting home wasn't really a problem. My mom always told me that it was okay for me to come home drunk, she'd rather have me home than outside somewhere were I can't be held responsible for my actions. I don't know the statistics, but if you looked it up I'm sure there's more fatalities due to alcohol here than in Europe, or areas with similar laws and views.

This post has been edited by RickJamesBish: Dec 16, 2008 - 4:50 PM

[GriffGirl]

The biggest problem here is that kids can't control myself

Well that's odd...

[D-Man]

The biggest problem here is that kids can't control myself

You're drunk right now, Aren't you?

Or do you swear to Drunk that you're not god?

This post has been edited by D-Man: Dec 16, 2008 - 4:10 PM

[96bluevert]

^^ I think he means "When I was a kid, I couldn't control myself when I drank"


This post has been edited by 96bluevert: Dec 16, 2008 - 4:14 PM

[D-Man]

^^ I think he means "When I was a kid, I couldn't control myself when I drank"

I don't care. I still think he's drunk right now.


...lucky...

[saleeka]

in regions that are similar to the UK like here where I am in the Pacific Northwest, I think there would be more alcohol related problems with kids than maybe in California, or anywhere from the middle to the southern thirds of the country, where it's not so gray and rainy for so many months of the year. I actually think a lot of that is weather related in how it affects your mood.

I very firmly believe that if alcohol and pot wasn't made to be so alluring by putting tight restrictions on it, and not talking openly about it, it'd be far less of an issue.

I totally agree 100% with what you are saying here. Living here in MN and dealing with winter can be downright depressing for us, and drinking is how many people get through it all. People I’ve met who never grew up around here have been borderline shocked to learn about the consumption habits average Joe has (I’d also like to point out that our DUI / DWI laws are some of the most lenient in the country...). In my opinion it's not so much the age of the person using being the problem, but the reason why they choose to use. With that said, I used to go out to bars and nightclubs when I was underage MUCH more than I do now. Looking back, it was for the fact that it felt exciting to be able to do something relatively exclusive for a person my age. If any 18 year old could do the same, I highly doubt I would have been as interested…

[RickJamesBish]

Edited for you OCD people, gimme me a break, it's midterm week.

[D-Man]

And that's the reason i used to walk around with a pocket full of the substances i had back in highschool.

EDIT: Mind you that now i realize that this made me a dumbsh!t; but back in the day it was "cool" Damn we were stupid as kids

This post has been edited by D-Man: Dec 16, 2008 - 5:00 PM

[RickJamesBish]

Edited for you OCD people, gimme me a break, it's midterm week.

[FreddyTheOthaMea...]

The way it was explained to me was that your brain doesnt fully develop/reach full maturity until about 21-25 years of age (Depending on the person) so when you drink you thin your blood out and induce dehydration which essentially starves your, not fully developed, brain. its been a while since ive been in school so I could be slightly off but yea..

[D-Man]

Then why is it that after a few beers, i find myself as the smartest person in the world?

[FreddyTheOthaMea...]

Then why is it that after a few beers, i find myself as the smartest person in the world?

I know huh? Hit the bar and after a few drinks everyones a philosophical juggernaut that has every political issue resolved, good times lol

[FreddyTheOthaMea...]

Bwahahahahaha

[D-Man]

^^^ that's one intimidating looking bird ^^^

[RickJamesBish]

LET ME DRINK!

[D-Man]

RJB.... Drunk...

Scary thought.

[RickJamesBish]

No, listen, with the PM's I get from you...you'd be a lot worse. A LOT worse, albeit entertaining.

[D-Man]

oh man, i should totally get your phone number and drunk dial you on Christmas I'd ruin you're whole day.

[RickJamesBish]

That **** would be turrible! Turrible!

[cnelson]

Hahahaha. Drunk dials, are no good. drexts are worse tho. Drunk texting is a no no, I wake up in the morning and its bad what I say to people. Funny but bad.

But anyway the real drinking age doesn't real stop anyone, I was drunk every night this weekend. But hey its Christmas break? Anyone here really into beer pong? I think i'm getting a table for Christmas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmcB8EeAoV0...feature=related

Those are the kids I listen to every time before I party, no joke. Right Side of the Tree. Funny as hell.

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 23, 2008 - 10:46 AM

[FreddyTheOthaMea...]

My drunk texts always look like im texting with my forehead or something. good drinking music = anything 80's or lisa loeb (scr*w you for judging me!) :'(

[D-Man]

80's FTMFW!!

I found and whipped out "the real Mc Coy" the other day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWgMnubJ4dQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOdmb8BnIw



I just ruined someones day, and made someone elses

[Akirad1]

Another Night FTMFW

[eggman40]

i find it stupid that at 18 your allowed to join the military, risk dieing or killing another person... yet not be allowed to drink?

my buddy was in iraq at 20 and when home on leave, couldnt get a drink at the bar... Either lower the drinking age or raise

the enlistment age. If your grown up enough to decide to risk your life, you should be allowed to drink

[forkee]

joining the military at a young age has no proven detrimental side effects on the body

people at any age always have a choice of killing themselves or others. you dont have to join the army.

i would think it a good thing that you can still obtain liquor (from a second party) at an age lower than the legal drinking age but are people complaining about that? can you illegally join the army before you're old enough? no. so alcohol wins that battle. imagine what it would be like if you can only drink at bars, and every single time you would have to scan your fingerprint and take a breath test to show you're still capable of driving, thereby virtually eliminating drunk driving.

freedom is great. we get to do whatever we want. if its against the law, at least we have a choice to make that decision. if you go to jail, its nobody's fault but your own.

if you want to join the army young, fine go ahead. but i have no sympathy if you want to drink just because you're in the army and still under 21. and if any soldier under 21 has any beef about wanted to drink but crying about not being able to legally, then they don't have any self discipline and shouldn't even be in the army in the first place.

being in the army is about being all that you can be, with a clear mind, and a clear body to defend our nation. drinking should be the last thing on your mind.

[zero07]

Sorry skipped alot, if your in the military to drink I think. If not forget it , your not worthy yet.

No, I was never in the military.

This post has been edited by zero07: Dec 29, 2008 - 5:02 PM

[SeverX13]

i dont really care if they lower it or not. Im gonna keep drinkin either way.

i think it would be hilarious to get a drunk dial from d-man. i would crack up

This post has been edited by SeverX13: Dec 29, 2008 - 5:12 PM

[D-Man]

...i would think it a good thing that you can still obtain liquor (from a second party) at an age lower than the legal drinking age but are people complaining about that? can you illegally join the army before you're old enough? no....

But you can get ahold of illegal guns and run around shooting people. There is a man standing at the conaco at the corner of this block that'll sell me a pistol for $40-$60. No problem. It'll take him a day or two (MAX), but he'll get it for me. and that's not just a texas thing... illegal guns are illegal everywhere, and equily accessable. So yeah, its kinda like an illegal military.

Illegal military = Colombine
Illegal drinking = 18 year olds drooling and goofing off.



EDIT: Sever, PM me your phone number, I've still got tequila. I'll totaly drunk dial you

This post has been edited by D-Man: Dec 29, 2008 - 5:49 PM

[RickJamesBish]

I should drunk dial you. Now THAT would be some chit.

This post has been edited by RickJamesBish: Dec 29, 2008 - 6:00 PM

[eggman40]

joining the military at a young age has no proven detrimental side effects on the body

people at any age always have a choice of killing themselves or others. you dont have to join the army.

you do have an excelent point, i was just thinking from the perspective of, the government considers you old enough, and responsible enough to make a life changing decision... (military) but considers you too immature to make a potential life changing decision (drink alcohol). You are pretty much an adult at 18 when it comes to laws (ex. criminal acts, moving out, etc.) i just never understood why drinking age is 3 yrs later.

also, my friend wassnt complaining, it was just my observation... In my head (never mentioned it to him) i was thinking, here is a dude who was shot at, nearly killed by an IED but is not allowed to purchase alcohol lol just seemed funny to me...

but i guess its probly better to some degree... just glad it dont get in my way no more