3sgte clutch kit on a 5sfte????, yes, also detailed info for swappers with the s54 tranny Options

[presure2]

hey guys, as most of you know, i've been running a ACT stage 1 5sfe clutch since i swapped in arts motor back in the day, it has performed great for me over the past few years, with no issues, however, its starting to get some miles on it, and since i have been over the torque rating pretty much since the day i turboed, i cant expect it to last forever.
the problem begins with the fact that even the higher rated ACT clutches (and most 5s clutches for that matter) is that theyre only rated for 350ftlbs at the flywheel, and with 275ftlbs at the wheels, im pretty close to being over even THAT rating.


so after a bit of research, i came up with this info.

the 3sgte friction surface area is 236mm, the 5s is 225mm.
the stock 185 flywheel will not bolt to a 5sfe crank, without elongating the bolt holes a fraction of an inch. guys who build strokers with the 5s crank run into this problem.

the solution can be had in a few ways, either elongate the bolt holes on the 185 flywheel, or use a st-165 flywheel, which will bolt to the 5s crank, however the friction surface is 225mm, like the 5s, which i am trying to get away from.
the fidanza light weight flyhweel for the 3sgte has elongated bolt holes from the factory, specificly for the stroker guys, who use the 5s crank.

SO, what i am going to do, is use the fidanza 3s LW flywheel, 3sgte pressure plate and disk, and the disk will have the s54 spline count.

ACT makes a disk for just this application, and has a part # available for it.

here is a list of the parts that are needed, this list will work for 5sfte guys that are looking for 300+ftlbs at the wheels, as well as 3sgte swap guys that want to use the S54 (stock GT) transmission.

it is a 6 puck, sprung hub disk, with theyre heavy duty pressure plate, rated at 499 ftlbs. at the flywheel. (theyre street disk is rated for 350ftlbs, they dont do that with the 5s spline)

for the 5sfte and 5s based stroker guys, you need a st-165 flywheel, or fidanza lightweight flywheel for the 3sgte (swap guys, the flywheel is an option)

ACT pressure plate PT # TO23
ACT 6 puck sprung disk PT# 6236216
i always recommend a OEM throwout bearing, but the ACT PT# is
ACT throw out bearing PT# RB442
ACT alignment tool PT# AT17

ill post pics of the flywheel when it comes in, it should be here monday, for now, here are a couple of pics of the clutch setup (this is jims clutch, but it is the same disk and pressure plate, just diffrent spline count.)



ignore the spec disk, ill edit in an actual pic of my disk when it gets here.



woot for 500ftlbs worth of clutch!

[lagos]

I think you would be just fine with a normal 5sfe 6puck. Even though there is a bit of less friction surface, those 6pucks can hold almost anything you throw at them. It would still be a huge upgrade from what you have in there now.

[presure2]

I think you would be just fine with a normal 5sfe 6puck. Even though there is a bit of less friction surface, those 6pucks can hold almost anything you throw at them. It would still be a huge upgrade from what you have in there now.

yea, it prolly would have for a while at these power levels, but this way im ready for future upgrades i plan on making, and when i switch out to the E153, all i need is a disk.
and the best part is pedal feel is virtually the same as what we have now.

[lagos]

I dig.

[Smaay]

yeah i could have told you this, i have the ST165 flywheel in my stroke 3S-GTE in my All-Trac. i had Southbend clutch build me a clutch just for it. i sent them the flywheel and they made me a 6 puck kit to match.

[trdproven]

I have an st185 3sgte lightweight flywheel in mine with ARP bolt kit and used together with a 5sfe stage 1 clutch.

[presure2]

yeah i could have told you this, i have the ST165 flywheel in my stroke 3S-GTE in my All-Trac. i had Southbend clutch build me a clutch just for it. i sent them the flywheel and they made me a 6 puck kit to match.

not posting it because i didnt know, i just posted up the info so that its here for everyone else
thanks for the contributions tho, if you have part #s and stuff that would be great, maybe we could get a sticky with all the diffrent setups available in one thread.

[Smaay]

good idea, ill hit up southbend and get part #s

[trdproven]

yeah i could have told you this, i have the ST165 flywheel in my stroke 3S-GTE in my All-Trac. i had Southbend clutch build me a clutch just for it. i sent them the flywheel and they made me a 6 puck kit to match.

not posting it because i didnt know, i just posted up the info so that its here for everyone else
thanks for the contributions tho, if you have part #s and stuff that would be great, maybe we could get a sticky with all the diffrent setups available in one thread.

No where in any gen clubs can you find a place like 6gc where information is great. Stickies and loads of information and how to's and etc., I don't see this in other gen sites. I know I've said this many times before. and keep up the motivation Manny - good job.

[presure2]

WOOT flywheel came in just now!
got a great deal on it too, 269, shipped.
sometimes, ebay really does has your IT.






this pic showes the elongated bolt holes for the 5sfe crank.



clutch will be ordered later this week.

[Dr_Tweak]

I have an st185 3sgte lightweight flywheel in mine with ARP bolt kit and used together with a 5sfe stage 1 clutch.

It's actually a 3SGTE clutch, with a 5S hub

Our Competition Clutch 3SGTE flywheels fit the 5SFE with the right bolts, as trdproven mentioned

-Doc

[Smaay]

actually newcelica.org for the 7th gen is very informative. it dosent hurt that i wrote most of the information there ok maybe not most, but alot

[Red_T_swiftcam]

So other than Gear Ratios, why would you switch to the e153 if the s54 can handle 500ftlb with this setup? Sorry if this Q? is stupid.

[presure2]

i dont know that the s54 can handle 500ftlbs...i can garantee you the axles wont, at the minimum.
i just needed more clutch than i had, and the next step was either a 350ftlb rated 5s clutch, or this setup, or somthing even more extreme in a 5s setup, which i didnt want to do.

as a sidenote, i ended up ordering a competition clutch kit from tweak, same 6puck sprung hub type, for ~ 100$ less than the ACT.
pics to come when it arrives.

[presure2]

so the competition clutch stage 4 hybrid clutch kit arrived yesterday, as promised by tweak.

thanks tweak, i appreciate the quick response, and shipping. saving me 100$+ is also a major bonus!

so, on to the pics!

the label:



specs:



contents:



pressure plate side of the disk..i dont think the springs will be poping out of this side..lmao..
also, it has a dual spring design much like the ACT 6 puck disk has (its more noticeable in the opened pics):



flywheel side:



pressure plate friction surface:



clutch disk on flywheel:



and pressure plate over top of that:



im going out to the garage in a bit to prep up for the install.

pics of the install later today!

[Smaay]

sexy, keep the pics coming

[Dragondog]

so the competition clutch stage 4 hybrid clutch kit arrived yesterday, as promised by tweak.

thanks tweak, i appreciate the quick response, and shipping. saving me 100$+ is also a major bonus!

so, on to the pics!

the label:



specs:



contents:



pressure plate side of the disk..i dont think the springs will be poping out of this side..lmao..
also, it has a dual spring design much like the ACT 6 puck disk has (its more noticeable in the opened pics):



flywheel side:



pressure plate friction surface:



clutch disk on flywheel:



and pressure plate over top of that:



im going out to the garage in a bit to prep up for the install.

pics of the install later today!

can u post me a link where i can get this clutch kit

[presure2]

i got it from drtweak here on the board. http://www.phoenixtuning.com/

[trdproven]

Manny - I have a LW flywheel from an st185 and used ARP bolt kit with 5sfe clutch kit and pressure plate. How would this relate to your topic?

[presure2]

Manny - I have a LW flywheel from an st185 and used ARP bolt kit with 5sfe clutch kit and pressure plate. How would this relate to your topic?

your setup is the same as mine, just a stage one instead of stage 4, like tweak posted several posts up.
its a 3s pressure plate and disk, with 5s spline.

QUOTE (trdproven @ Feb 1, 2009 - 11:34 AM)
I have an st185 3sgte lightweight flywheel in mine with ARP bolt kit and used together with a 5sfe stage 1 clutch.


It's actually a 3SGTE clutch, with a 5S hub

Our Competition Clutch 3SGTE flywheels fit the 5SFE with the right bolts, as trdproven mentioned

[presure2]

hey guys, back for an update on the competition clutch.

after some investigation, it turns out that this clutch setup that i am currently running consits of a 3sgte pressure plate, and 5sfe disk.
i didnt realize it at the time, but its obvious when you look at the pics above of the disk sitting on the flywheel.
the disk is ~10mm smaller than the flywheel, and pressure plate friction surface.
it shouldnt be like that.
a 3s disk would run right to the edge of the PP and flywheel.
I cant and dont want to put the blame on tweak, he has these drop shipped for him direct from competition clutch, but it is a bit dissapointing to have figured this out a couple months after the clutch has been installed.
on a good note, the clutch is holding 330ft lbs at the wheels without a problem, which is over 400ftlbs at the crank.
lets hope i can get a good couple of years outta this disk.
for you guys that order one of these setups in the future, i would contact your manufacturer directly, and be VERY clear about what you want.

[trdproven]

Would it be a big problem though? I'm sure mine should be exactly like yours. I didn't really look at it that well. Isn't it suppose to be 3s disk with 5s spline?

[presure2]

Would it be a big problem though? I'm sure mine should be exactly like yours. I didn't really look at it that well. Isn't it suppose to be 3s disk with 5s spline?

its not a big problem, till i want to actually use a 3s disk.
because the 5s disk is smaller, its gonna wear a groove into the PP and flywheel. i can replace the friction surface on the flywheel, but the PP will be useless.

yes, its supposed to be a 3s disk, with 5s spline.

[trdproven]

That sucks, i'll find out when I change my clutch again but until then it sucks knowing I may have to change both. Thanks bro

[presure2]

That sucks, i'll find out when I change my clutch again but until then it sucks knowing I may have to change both. Thanks bro

well, for the guys under 300ftlbs at the wheels, it dont matter much if you use the 5s disk.
hell, for right now, it dont even matter for me.
it would just suck if i wanted to swap out to the E153, while this clutch is still useable. cause i wouldnt have a choice but to change the PP, disk, and flywheel friction surface.

[jjbenzo]

So if I have a 98 GT, swap in a 3rd gen. 3SGTE engine but keep the stock manual transmission...which upgraded clutch and flywheel do I buy for? Do I buy a clutch and flywheel specifically for the stock 5SFE GT transmission, or buy one for a 3SGTE? I'm confused on this one because with my Supra, I had to buy a clutch/flywheel that matches the stock transmission, not the 7MGTE that was swapped in.

This post has been edited by jjbenzo: Jul 27, 2009 - 5:34 PM

[trdproven]

use the 3sgte clutch set up and the 5s spline on the disk. the 3s and 5s have much similarities.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jul 27, 2009 - 5:40 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

hey guys, back for an update on the competition clutch.

after some investigation, it turns out that this clutch setup that i am currently running consits of a 3sgte pressure plate, and 5sfe disk.
i didnt realize it at the time, but its obvious when you look at the pics above of the disk sitting on the flywheel.
the disk is ~10mm smaller than the flywheel, and pressure plate friction surface.
it shouldnt be like that.
a 3s disk would run right to the edge of the PP and flywheel.
I cant and dont want to put the blame on tweak, he has these drop shipped for him direct from competition clutch, but it is a bit dissapointing to have figured this out a couple months after the clutch has been installed.
on a good note, the clutch is holding 330ft lbs at the wheels without a problem, which is over 400ftlbs at the crank.
lets hope i can get a good couple of years outta this disk.
for you guys that order one of these setups in the future, i would contact your manufacturer directly, and be VERY clear about what you want.

Hey Manny,

Someone just pointed this post out to me via PM. You should have contacted me if this was really the case. Here is the actual email that I sent to CC when I ordered your clutch kit, dated 2-16:

"Please ship one stage 4 clutch kit (3SGTE pressure plate and disc,
5SFE hub, bearing and alignment tool) to:

Manny
****address edited*****

I need this to arrive NO LATER than this Friday, 2-20-09, please ship
accordingly. Also please send me the tracking number information as
soon as it has been shipped. Thank you!

-Doc"

Looking at the pics you posted, that looks normal to me, are you 100% certain that you didn't get a 3SGTE disc? I mean, did you actually measure it?

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jul 30, 2009 - 9:44 PM

[lagos]

interesting that the act clutch uses 4 big springs and the competition uses 6 small ones. wonder what setup is less prone to failure...

[presure2]

hey guys, back for an update on the competition clutch.

after some investigation, it turns out that this clutch setup that i am currently running consits of a 3sgte pressure plate, and 5sfe disk.
i didnt realize it at the time, but its obvious when you look at the pics above of the disk sitting on the flywheel.
the disk is ~10mm smaller than the flywheel, and pressure plate friction surface.
it shouldnt be like that.
a 3s disk would run right to the edge of the PP and flywheel.
I cant and dont want to put the blame on tweak, he has these drop shipped for him direct from competition clutch, but it is a bit dissapointing to have figured this out a couple months after the clutch has been installed.
on a good note, the clutch is holding 330ft lbs at the wheels without a problem, which is over 400ftlbs at the crank.
lets hope i can get a good couple of years outta this disk.
for you guys that order one of these setups in the future, i would contact your manufacturer directly, and be VERY clear about what you want.

Hey Manny,

Someone just pointed this post out to me via PM. You should have contacted me if this was really the case. Here is the actual email that I sent to CC when I ordered your clutch kit, dated 2-16:

"Please ship one stage 4 clutch kit (3SGTE pressure plate and disc,
5SFE hub, bearing and alignment tool) to:

Manny
****address edited*****

I need this to arrive NO LATER than this Friday, 2-20-09, please ship
accordingly. Also please send me the tracking number information as
soon as it has been shipped. Thank you!

-Doc"

Looking at the pics you posted, that looks normal to me, are you 100% certain that you didn't get a 3SGTE disc? I mean, did you actually measure it?

-Doc

doc, like i said, i dont blame you, i know you have them drop shipped from comp.
i didnt have to measure it, i compared it to the ACT 5s disk i pulled from my motor.
they are the same size.
by the time i actually realized it, it was already in the car, and was being used.

[Dr_Tweak]

Hey, I just came to check on this thread and it looks like my last post got lost in the latest rash of forum crashes.

Long story short, I spoke to CC about it who admitted that they sometimes used the 8.86" disc instead of the 9.29" disc when they were out of stock, since it's still "within spec" for the holding power of that clutch kit. Needless to say I was little upset since the whole point of using the full-diameter 3S disc IS to have the full-diameter disc. They now have been well-informed that they are NEVER to do that again

That said, I've got a free replacement full-diameter disc for you, if you want it. Of course it's already in the car working well so I understand if you don't feel like pulling it out.

For the record, you must ALWAYS resurface your flywheel (or replace the friction surface in your case) when you replace a clutch so the difference in diameter will not effect you going to an full-diameter disc, if and when you choose to (E153 swap or whatever).

Let me know!

-Doc

[presure2]

Hey, I just came to check on this thread and it looks like my last post got lost in the latest rash of forum crashes.

Long story short, I spoke to CC about it who admitted that they sometimes used the 8.86" disc instead of the 9.29" disc when they were out of stock, since it's still "within spec" for the holding power of that clutch kit. Needless to say I was little upset since the whole point of using the full-diameter 3S disc IS to have the full-diameter disc. They now have been well-informed that they are NEVER to do that again

That said, I've got a free replacement full-diameter disc for you, if you want it. Of course it's already in the car working well so I understand if you don't feel like pulling it out.

For the record, you must ALWAYS resurface your flywheel (or replace the friction surface in your case) when you replace a clutch so the difference in diameter will not effect you going to an full-diameter disc, if and when you choose to (E153 swap or whatever).

Let me know!

-Doc

yea, mine was lost as well.
yea, i always resurface my flywheels when i do clutches, (or just replace the friction surface in my case, like you said.)
i will also have to replace the pressure plate as well if i decide to swap out to the E153, even if its before the PP wears out.
like i said, i knew it wasnt your fault, by any means, so no biggie there, and by the time i figured it out, it had already been installed and driven around on for a while.
the clutch now has a couple thousand miles on it, and a dozen or so track launchs with no issues, and has broken in nicely. (it was very on/off for the first ~ 1000miles, but im sure the lightweight flywheel dont help with that..lol)
hopfully we wont have to pull the tranny for any other reason than to swap to the E153 in the future. lol
thanks for doing the leg work with CC and confirming what i had thought, i appreciate the effort to make sure that things are being take care of.
hopfully i wont have a reason to take you up on the disk offer (although having the spare on hand would be good too), but that is VERY cool of you, and shows your commitment to this community which in this day and age is rare.
thanks tweak.

[Cuttyman9]

I smoked the s53 in my car, so in the last week I grabbed a s54 from the yard(for 135 out the door) and am planning to drop it into my 5th gen. I figure while I have it out why not change the clutch(roughly 90k on it) and do a bit of upgrading.
I've already decided that a lighter flywheel is necessary as well as the 3sgte pressure plate/flywheel/disc combo.

Anyways I punched in the competition clutch part number and found they are very vague as to what it fits on most of the sites.
I was curious if I purchase that if it in fact fits the s54 and not just the one shipped from tweak fits(possibly because they swap a few things around)


I can hear it now, everyone telling me it's all overkill for a stock motor. I've determined I don't mind, I've driven a few vehicles with a clutch like this, and the lightweight flywheel is what I wanted but it requires the 3s clutch unless I get something specific to a 5sfe which is not in the budget.
Also like presure2 said, why not just have it ready to recieve e153 splined disc and you're set?

[Smaay]

im confused, does the S53 and S54 have different splines?

im was running a fidanza flywheel and Southbend clutch in my 6th gen while i had the turboed 5S in there. I highly recommend a TZ setup for you

http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/html/celica.html

[celica95-95]

on a quick note i order the same CC clutch from tweak online and had the same problem and when changing it i had lost a spring as well only having 8000 miles on it, I noticed that the clutch slip a lot ,also not engaging ... thinking it was me, unit going to my mechanic still have the clutch . I know that it is on CC end the problem ,