AWD Conversion Options

[Charlie97L]

ok, so i remember someone claiming to have done this AWD conversion on his 6th gen. i can't remember who though. it's a great idea, i might attempt it at some point if i just have too much money laying around.

i personally really want to see some pics of this car, the engine bay, interior, under car, etc. if this guy really has done this, i want to see it and be able to tell him how much of the s**t he is for pulling this off.

a part list, or detailed description of what was done would also help convince me.

i'm just really interested, and i want MORE OF THIS POTENTIALLY AWESOME CELICA!

bring on the pics.

charlie

[NEVERSTOP]

Charlie97L.... I am that guy.

Yes. I have done this conversion. I did it in my 94 GT. I used a 95 ST205 rearend that I got from a guy I know in Canada.. I paid around 1k for all of the parts. And I did the conversion in about 5-6 hours with the help of a few friends.

Here is how to do this conversion.

You will have to relocate the Gas tank. This takes a while and I had already done this prior to the convesions so it cut some time off of it. I also had the 3sgte with tranny installed prior to it.. I had a transmission shop lock out the rear transfer case before I did the rearend so I could drive the car and then when I did the rearend conversion we undid the welds to free up the transfercase.

the first thing you will need to do is remove your complete rear assembly.. this is axle and all susspension componenets.

Remove your gas tank... the rearend will not fit with the gastank in the stock location. I baough a Race Ready one for my trunk and that works perfect for me but you might want to explore other options.

Then you will need to move the ST205 rear assembly under the car and figure out where you are going to need to cut to make it fit... the pumpkin DOES NOT fit under the USDM Celica without modifiying it.

My 94 GT was partially prestamped for the ST205 conversion but we did have to do some custom mounting. I am not sure about other years and versions of the Celica as to weither or not they where prestamped... wouldn't think that the ST's would of been stamped or the 96+ Celicas... If you know someone that knows alot about Hydrolics have them help you! because they have a tendency to know alot about doing custom suspension.

Once the Rear assembly is in place you just have to hook up the Drive shaft and your done... there are some other small things but this is the jist of it.

As for Photos I will get have plenty of them on here soon... Don't want to give neaway until the car is completly done but the car is gettin close to being done... just waiting for a few more parts before finishing the paint and then it's time for new Intercooler and rims!

[0Re0]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Jan 12 2003, 12:00 AM)

Charlie97L.... I am that guy. Yes. I have done this conversion. I did it in my 94 GT. I used a 95 ST205 rearend that I got from a guy I know in Canada.. I paid around 1k for all of the parts. And I did the conversion in about 5-6 hours with the help of a few friends. Here is how to do this conversion. You will have to relocate the Gas tank. This takes a while and I had already done this prior to the convesions so it cut some time off of it. I also had the 3sgte with tranny installed prior to it.. I had a transmission shop lock out the rear transfer case before I did the rearend so I could drive the car and then when I did the rearend conversion we undid the welds to free up the transfercase. the first thing you will need to do is remove your complete rear assembly.. this is axle and all susspension componenets. Remove your gas tank... the rearend will not fit with the gastank in the stock location. I baough a Race Ready one for my trunk and that works perfect for me but you might want to explore other options. Then you will need to move the ST205 rear assembly under the car and figure out where you are going to need to cut to make it fit... the pumpkin DOES NOT fit under the USDM Celica without modifiying it. My 94 GT was partially prestamped for the ST205 conversion but we did have to do some custom mounting. I am not sure about other years and versions of the Celica as to weither or not they where prestamped... wouldn't think that the ST's would of been stamped or the 96+ Celicas... If you know someone that knows alot about Hydrolics have them help you! because they have a tendency to know alot about doing custom suspension. Once the Rear assembly is in place you just have to hook up the Drive shaft and your done... there are some other small things but this is the jist of it. As for Photos I will get have plenty of them on here soon... Don't want to give neaway until the car is completly done but the car is gettin close to being done... just waiting for a few more parts before finishing the paint and then it's time for new Intercooler and rims!

Can't wait to see it!

[0Re0]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Jan 12 2003, 12:00 AM)

Charlie97L.... I am that guy. Yes. I have done this conversion. I did it in my 94 GT. I used a 95 ST205 rearend that I got from a guy I know in Canada.. I paid around 1k for all of the parts. And I did the conversion in about 5-6 hours with the help of a few friends. Here is how to do this conversion. You will have to relocate the Gas tank. This takes a while and I had already done this prior to the convesions so it cut some time off of it. I also had the 3sgte with tranny installed prior to it.. I had a transmission shop lock out the rear transfer case before I did the rearend so I could drive the car and then when I did the rearend conversion we undid the welds to free up the transfercase. the first thing you will need to do is remove your complete rear assembly.. this is axle and all susspension componenets. Remove your gas tank... the rearend will not fit with the gastank in the stock location. I baough a Race Ready one for my trunk and that works perfect for me but you might want to explore other options. Then you will need to move the ST205 rear assembly under the car and figure out where you are going to need to cut to make it fit... the pumpkin DOES NOT fit under the USDM Celica without modifiying it. My 94 GT was partially prestamped for the ST205 conversion but we did have to do some custom mounting. I am not sure about other years and versions of the Celica as to weither or not they where prestamped... wouldn't think that the ST's would of been stamped or the 96+ Celicas... If you know someone that knows alot about Hydrolics have them help you! because they have a tendency to know alot about doing custom suspension. Once the Rear assembly is in place you just have to hook up the Drive shaft and your done... there are some other small things but this is the jist of it. As for Photos I will get have plenty of them on here soon... Don't want to give neaway until the car is completly done but the car is gettin close to being done... just waiting for a few more parts before finishing the paint and then it's time for new Intercooler and rims!

THE BADDEST CELICA ON THE US!

[Jussimple]

I only have two words," The Shiznit". I'm with the cult, those pics will inspire all. Hope to see them soon.

[Mynzeyes]

i'm with charlie on this one. if it was as easy as this, mike and ray and all of those people from celica.net would have already done it. i won't buy it til i see pictures of him pointing to the rear differential.

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (Mynzeyes @ Jan 12 2003, 03:50 PM)

i'm with charlie on this one. if it was as easy as this, mike and ray and all of those people from celica.net would have already done it. i won't buy it til i see pictures of him pointing to the rear differential.

yeah ray is getting his swap done by EL Prototypes, who are the best Toyota swap guys in the country. and believe me, if he could have done an AWD conversion with them, he would have.

[Guest_Matthew_*]

i'm sure that neverstop is broke cuz he is a DJ and he works strictly on commision. And how many people have raves in the winter? Not many. I'm sure that he is gonna wait until his car is his completely done.

[rlan214]

ummmm still wont believe till i see the pics dont mean to hate here but im with charlie and mynzeyes
if there someones that's gonna be doing this conversion it'll be mike(qatar) since he got all the part at least the whole gt four clip from japan

[Mage]

Um yeah, I probably have the least technical knowledge compared to all of you, but if this is true and somewhat feasible on our cars, that would be a dream come true. Getting AWD...

[NEVERSTOP]

The main reason why a lot of people havent done this before is that either they didnt think of it or because the rearend parts are kinda hard to locate with out damage... you can get them from toysport but you will pay up the ass.. the only reason that I was able to get everything is because The guy that I got mine from has a 6th gen gt4 that hes drags and had gotten a second one for parts and didn't think that he would need them.

[95STCelica]

i'll pay you to do mine lol

[Mage]

Any pics yet?

[FallenHero]

I believe he'll post them up once all of his body work is done.

[Mage]

No offense but wouldn't the pics not even show the body anyways? If they're just of the awd parts on the car? And in any case, it seems rather odd to be so concerned about having everything 100% done before showing any pics... if he can invest in making sideskirts and whatnot, showing sketches instead of the final product, why would it be different than showing the mere car to people on a messageboard? It's not like we're judges or anything, our opinions of his ride shouldn't matter. I wouldn't care if he had a bodykit made of wood, and I doubt anyone else would either, as long as there -were- pics that showed the working awd parts on the car. The awd conversion seems overly-simplistic, the chassis alone presenting a huge problem.

[Cragspider]

Ok Neverstop, How hard it would be for you to go to the shop where your car is and take some pics of the conversion fo us? If you say that you have done this then you should have pics to prove it. So Im calling you out, PRODUCE SOME PICS OF IT, then it wil be settled.
Bryan

[Guest_Jason_*]

Honestly, if someone wants to get pictures taken, its very easy. I don't own a webcam or digicam, and I can get pics whenever I need them. Either through friends or through places like kinko's or other imaging stores. I'm not telling you to get them, i'm just suggesting. I could careless if you get pictures, but this topic is getting kind of annoying already. Kinko's should be able to put pictures on a hard disk for 15c a picture, and if you can't afford that, then you don't have an AWD Conversion.

This post has been edited by Jason: Feb 2, 2003 - 9:45 PM

[NEVERSTOP]

as for pics like I said before...not until its all done - plain and simple.

As for locating parts I went and looked at a 5th gen alltrac today at a local car lot. the rear end looks like its almost identical to the 6th gen one. and it comes with the rear mounted gas tank.

It would be worth the money to but a 90-93 all trac for 2.5-4 grand and take the 3sgte,tranny, driveshaft, rearend, etc out of it and transplant it into your 6th gen.

[boosted_K2]

damn seems like ive started something here, everyone buggin neverstop lol, im stayin outa it now... i have a lil more faith lol...

[boosted_K2]

mikes in the process... well will be very soon when the weather up here in MI clears up.

and as for kuya hes doing something and being very sneaky about it... he disclosed me very little info but apparently it will be a beast, either AWD or RWD and if i remember correctly he quoted me a # around 800 HP from the 3sgte...

[Guest_Matthew_*]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Feb 2, 2003 - 9:09 PM)

as for pics like I said before...not until its all done - plain and simple. As for locating parts I went and looked at a 5th gen alltrac today at a local car lot. the rear end looks like its almost identical to the 6th gen one. and it comes with the rear mounted gas tank. It would be worth the money to but a 90-93 all trac for 2.5-4 grand and take the 3sgte,tranny, driveshaft, rearend, etc out of it and transplant it into your 6th gen.

I 100% agree

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Jan 12, 2003 - 12:00 AM)

You will have to relocate the Gas tank. This takes a while and I had already done this prior to the convesions so it cut some time off of it. I also had the 3sgte with tranny installed prior to it.. I had a transmission shop lock out the rear transfer case before I did the rearend so I could drive the car and then when I did the rearend conversion we undid the welds to free up the transfercase.

after doing some research, i have to restate my postition... this idea is valid, pretty much, and you are almost right, so I can roll with this. yes, you can do that to an st185 tranny, locking out the rear transfer case, but not on the st205 transmission, to the best of my knowledge. and you are only supposed to use that feature for towing or dyno runs, you really aren't supposed to drive it like that... i'm encouraged that what you seem to say is close to making sense, so it is plausible... i'm still wanting pics however, but i am willing to entertain the possibility that you have done this, and my hat will be off to you if you have indeed done it.

the only thing i really have a problem with at this point is encouraging people to believe that an AWD conversion is easy. it's not, no matter how you look at it, and i really would feel bad if some kid cut up his celica thinking he could do this himself. it's very complicated, and will be VERY expensive, and like any suspension work, can produce very dangerous driving condiions if not done properly. i'm glad yours is in a shop being worked on.

who has a gt4 in the states? i would like to see some pics of that, even if it is race-only.

[NEVERSTOP]

QUOTE

yes, you can do that to an st185 tranny, locking out the rear transfer case, but not on the st205 transmission, to the best of my knowledge

You can have a transmission shop do this for you on the ST205 transmission.


And it's REALLY not that hard to do... granted having a shop do this for you would be the best bet rather than try it yourself if you have never done nething like this before.

if you do try and go at it all by urself at least have someone that has alot of knoledge about sespension and the like helping you out.. I had a friend who is a hydrolic expert figure it out for me as to alignement

[1900]

ok i have a st-205 rear end just hanging around i am not going to use it so if anyone is interested let me know. neverstop is right you have to relocate the gas tank and raise the floor of the trunk, however i don't think it's an easy job the best thing would be to get an st-205 rear end to do the conversion. also neverstop i'm curious as to what exactly did u do to make the st-205 trans front drive only and did your car perform with the gearbox that way.

alton

[marcusk]

i dont believe it, and probably wont because its always the people who cant give pics, but...they always have so much done to their car.... im thinking if anyone on this board actually did this, they would post pics immediatly just to prove its possible...but as in your case you have posted no pics, no proof, probably cause it never happened.

[NEVERSTOP]

QUOTE

i dont believe it, and probably wont because its always the people who cant give pics, but...they always have so much done to their car....  im thinking if anyone on this board actually did this, they would post pics immediatly just to prove its possible...but as in your case you have posted no pics, no proof, probably cause it never happened.

And I have noticed that it's usally the people that dont have jack **** done to there cars that run off at the mouth about other peoples stuff at ne chance they can get and then make a huge deal when they do something small to there car: like figure out how to start it.

tired of a buncha punk kids that started tunning a year and a half ago when they walked out of a movie theather who think painted calipars, bras, underbodyneons, custom interior and **** like that are performance mods, and then are trying to tell me what can and cant be done! I built my 1st engine when most of the people trying to say this stuff where still in dipers! Im not jokin about that either. built my 1st engine when I was 8 years old.. granted my dad was watchin to make sure I didnt mess nething up to bad but that damn thing ran! Thats 14 years...

sorry if I dont wanna post pics yet - thats my choice and nothing you are going to say is gonna make me post a single pic before I decide that its time - SO QUIT ASKING. I am notasking for praise or worship cus I did somthing 1st. which I doubt I was the 1st. If I wanted that you woulda seen pics along time ago - and I wouldnt be trying to explain how to do it.. would keep that to myself.. instead I am trying to help people out with making the most of the 3sgte - and punks like you throw it in my face... point is even if I didnt have this done My car would stomp the **** outta yours even in reverse

I have never asked ne of you to belive me or not. I dont lie... christ I am an EAGLE SCOUT for cryin out loud... think that would say at least a little something about my values and morals when it comes to the truth.. granted I got a little of a temper

as for this swap not being possible... or u stupid or do you just not know a damn thing about nething??? come on seriously? you are asking if you can take a rearend out of a 6th gen celica gt4 and put it into a USDM 6th gen... the holy answer is YES! think about it. same car with really not to many differences besides looks. yes one is FWD and the other is AWD... all of the mesurements are IDENTICAL the rear suspension is just set up a little bit and the gas tank is is the way. you will have to move the exhaust cus its in the way of the driveshaft but it you are going to do this conversion then you would have the 3sgte already and if you had ne sense of things you would of already moved the exhaust piping to a straight peice that ran along the side instead of the center.

QUOTE

also neverstop i'm curious as to what exactly did u do to make the st-205 trans front drive only and did your car perform with the gearbox that way.

I had a local transmission shop do this for me... what they did was fashion a piece that kinda cupped the rear transfercase that held it into place... kinda hard to describe and transmissions arnt my strong point when it comes to cars. the ST205 transmission has that thing... where the power goes to the point of least resistence... cant remember what it is called.. newayz when I would drive the car what would happen is that the transmission would try and send power to all four wheels but the cupped piece on the rear transfer case would only alow so much movement and then it would stop so most of the power would be transfered to the front wheels. the problem with this is I kept breakin the welds on the cupped piece and then my car wouldn't move until I took it back to the transmission shop and had them reweld it.

I didnt like doing that and but was stuck cuz I had sold my GT transmission already and didnt want to buy anotherone when there has been talk about that transmission not being able to hold up to the 3sgte. so I ended up gettin a rearend from the guy that I bought the 3sgte from and did the conversion.

as for performance, when I had the rear transfer locked out and it was just FWD I noticed that when I shifted that there was a delay from the time I engaged the clutch to the time that the power hit the ground.. it was a good second or so.. and it would kinda lurch when it did it. I have no way to compare this to the GT transmission as I never hooked it up to my 3sgte. once I did the rear end conversion there was no lag or hesatation as there was with it locked out. as for damage to the gear box or nething like that I didnt notice nething other than what I described

[FallenHero]

I've been thinking. Ok, AWD gives your car GREAT launches, but once you are past the point of wheel spin,(not counting catching second and stuff) AWD has no real purpose. Also, AWD ROBS your engines power. I have seen WRX WHP under 160. So here is my point. Assuming that the 280horse 3S with awd put down 220horses to the ground, and the fwd put down say,,, 260, what's would be better. Great launch, or more high end power. I could be way off the mark here though. Am I in the ball park?

[marcusk]

You have no proof and as far as im concerend you didnt do it. Talk **** all you want about my car...The fact is i have proof of the **** i claim to have done to my car. Also, im sure your car is faster than mine, but im also savin up for college and by the time im in my mid 20's ill sure as hell be driving a lot faster car that any celica you can pump out. Also i didnt say it wasnt possible, i said if someone did do it they would post pics to prove it is. Read into it if you can, find out what it really means, its been said before, you can do anything w/ enough money so sure its possible, but practical; from what ive read no.

[Mage]

Uh, the GT4 is 3000 lbs, the regular 6th gen is around 2400. And you're saying they're identical? The chassis is entirely different. You are seriously losing the little credibility you had.

[FallenHero]

the rear suspension is about the only thing I think would need changing.

[NEVERSTOP]

QUOTE

Uh, the GT4 is 3000 lbs, the regular 6th gen is around 2400. And you're saying they're identical? The chassis is entirely different. You are seriously losing the little credibility you had.

The chassis are actually very simalar the wieght difference is in part in the fact that the 3sgte wieghts more than the 5sfe. the rear assembly also adds to the wieght difference there is also alot more renforcement in the GT4.

QUOTE

You have no proof and as far as im concerend you didnt do it. Talk **** all you want about my car...The fact is i have proof of the **** i claim to have done to my car. Also, im sure your car is faster than mine, but im also savin up for college and by the time im in my mid 20's ill sure as hell be driving a lot faster car that any celica you can pump out. Also i didnt say it wasnt possible, i said if someone did do it they would post pics to prove it is. Read into it if you can, find out what it really means, its been said before, you can do anything w/ enough money so sure its possible, but practical; from what ive read no.

son... just keep postin replys like this.. will make it all the better when I decide that my celica is completed enuf to show you. This just keeps building up the suspense and brings out the people who have faith and those who don't.

and as for you building a car in your mid 20's that will be faster than ne celica I can pump out... thats fine when you think you got it build come find me.. just make sure you do more to it than stuff you got from autozone

[marcusk]

QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Feb 12, 2003 - 11:24 PM)

QUOTE son... just keep postin replys like this.. will make it all the better when I decide that my celica is completed enuf to show you. This just keeps building up the suspense and brings out the people who have faith and those who don't. If you do actually have it done and post pics someday, ill be happy for you, and you will have me. That ill admit, but im just sayin I dont think you have it done, and if you never prove it, well then youll never prove me wrong and youll be the one that lost credibility.

[NEVERSTOP]

QUOTE

If you do actually have it done and post pics someday, ill be happy for you, and you will have  me. That ill admit, but im just sayin I dont think you have it done, and if you never prove it, well then youll never prove me wrong and youll be the one that lost credibility.

that fine... you give me another month or so and all of the photos you need will be posted right here.

[FallenHero]

I give you the thumbs up Neverstop

[NEVERSTOP]

thanks... nice to know that there are people there that have a little faith and understand the virtue of patience

[Benevolence]

Im pretty sure your telling the truth but I dont know how well the awd will hold with such a custom job like this.

[I_Hate_Trucks]

umm can we get pics of you building the engine at 8? and a pic of you in eagle scout uniform??? i mean we cant tell that for sure unless you have pics right? guys let it go, give him time, if hes got it hes got it mad props to him but if he doesnt then ALL HELL will break loose in the game of shame... im done
Nick

[FallenHero]

Well, Here are my thoughts. The cars (our USDM and the JDM GT-4) were all made in the same factory. Much like her in Alabama. All the big Mercedes SUV's are made here and send all over the world. Now, they are all made on the same paltform. Some just have different options. We are switching in the 3S as an option. I see no reason not to think that you could do the same to an AWD system. Granted (as Neverstop said) Alignment would be tough, but it's doable.

[NEVERSTOP]

QUOTE

Im pretty sure your telling the truth but I dont know how well the awd will hold with such a custom job like this.

I have had no probs but have only driven it with the AWD for a few months before I tore it all apart agian.. this has been a big concern of mine.. so far it has held though.

QUOTE

Well, Here are my thoughts. The cars (our USDM and the JDM GT-4) were all made in the same factory. Much like her in Alabama. All the big Mercedes SUV's are made here and send all over the world. Now, they are all made on the same paltform. Some just have different options. We are switching in the 3S as an option. I see no reason not to think that you could do the same to an AWD system. Granted (as Neverstop said) Alignment would be tough, but it's doable.

thank you... I have been trying to tell people this for a while now

[gtfourdreams]

http://celica.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?u...ic;f=2;t=005470

check it. if you're serious about the conversion, you wont be disappointed.

gtfourdreams AT hotmail DOT com

This post has been edited by gtfourdreams: Feb 18, 2003 - 3:56 AM

[rlan214]

QUOTE (gtfourdreams @ Feb 18, 2003 - 1:55 AM)

http://celica.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?u...ic;f=2;t=005470 check it. if you're serious about the conversion, you wont be disappointed. gtfourdreams AT hotmail DOT com

my god that's a beautiful mr. too

[rlan214]

pahina tres

[gtfourdreams]

yea, i know its pretty damm sweet. 53k on the odo too it scares me sometimes, people driving towards me will stare at it until they cant stare at it no more - i see them in my rear-view mirror. i seriously do not want my car to cause an accident. hehehe...

[Milds3vn]

NEVERSTOP I give you huge props by waiting till its completely finished to show the pictures. Like an artist not wanting to show his masterpeice till its perfect, you are keeping us waiting and it will be that much more exciting to see 100% finished. Keep up the good work and fuq the haters!

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I absolutely agree with you, Milds3vn. Im working on getting stuff done with my car, and im not putting any pictures up until its completely done, just like NEVERSTOP. I give him lots of credit for having the restraint to not post pics despite all the pressure from everyone that doubts him. So i give you props my son, and as for me, just like NEVERSTOP, you can all wait till around May(hopefully) to see my car when its all done.

[Guest_Matthew_*]

also the reason that a gt-4 is heavier than a usdm gt celica. is because of what someone said about the engine itself. the 5s-fe is aluminum. the 3s is cast iron at about 400 pounds. add in the rear drive axles, driveshaft, etc. even the little things count as weight. turbo, turbo exhaust manifold, wastegate, BOV, TMIC, etc. even the needle for the boost guage on the dash.

[No0bOne]

It's called sustaining to keep that interest level above somewhere up there...? ^^