Customized Power Deck Spacer for 3SGE, Installed, what I can say?! Nothing but responsive!!! Options

[vincent_doggy]

Ingridients





Fitted on a scrap engine













This post has been edited by vincent_doggy: Sep 18, 2009 - 11:31 AM

[njccmd2002]

built in some leds and conect to 12 volts. it may look cool, guess its only for looks.

[BonzaiCelica]

ooo very nice, fiberglass im guessing. this is the same exact thing they have on nengun.

http://www.nengun.com/top-fuel/power-deck-spacer

and my guess is if you had an ss-III with redtop in it you would be making custom engine parts for that too.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 3, 2009 - 4:39 PM

[Sinyk]

I'd like to see some tests to prove that 10hp gain.

[Kwanza26]

If anything... you'll probably lose top-end power and gain low-mid range torque because that essentially increases intake volume, thus reducing intake velocity...

[Rusty]

did you get the other part required for this?

[vincent_doggy]

did you get the other part required for this?

u mean gasket and longer screws, O Ring and stuffs?



This post has been edited by vincent_doggy: Sep 18, 2009 - 8:31 PM

[Rusty]

no, the larger TB

[vincent_doggy]

Just Fit on my ST202C
I am not a tech guy, and I don't do DYNO
What I can say is the REV go up faster, and seems responsive
I like it!!!

[808celica]

good stuff V_D

[delusionz]

I don't know about NA but I thought this would work for turbocharged. Increased volume = more air at same pressure, ST205 ecu = pig rich. Yeah?

[Bitter]

large air volume = good for a high revving NA engine. anyone know how big the intake chamber volume is on a 2zz? its 4.5 liters for a 1.8 liter engine!

[vincent_doggy]

ooo very nice, fiberglass im guessing. this is the same exact thing they have on nengun.

http://www.nengun.com/top-fuel/power-deck-spacer

and my guess is if you had an ss-III with redtop in it you would be making custom engine parts for that too.

Its not made out of Fiberglass.

Its crystal clear Acrylic, and used CNC Laser Cutting Machine to make it

This post has been edited by vincent_doggy: Sep 18, 2009 - 8:51 PM

[vincent_doggy]

no, the larger TB

This mod not including the TB, just the Deck spacer itself, a new gasket and some Longer Screws

I'd like to see some tests to prove that 10hp gain.

lol, I am not gonna DYNO it twice, on and off... the 2 x DYNO might cost more than the Deck Spacer itself...

[Rusty]

well we pretty much know the standard dyno run figures, so why not just do 1 run??

[freddy121389]

anything available like this for the 5sfe?

[delusionz]

Would this not upset ACIS operation too?

when ACIS opens up for high rpm operation, they flick up (sitting horizontally) to block off that top part of the manifold, when this happens it doesnt matter how much extra volume u put in there, its not used.

In low rpm operation the butterflys are vertical... there is a small gap underneath them allowing for just the bottom half of the intake runner space to be used, the rest of the vacuum sucks from the empty chamber you've just enlarged. Now you've also opened up a path that was once a dead end to allow vacuum to suck over the top of the butterflies and through the top half of the intake runner space effectively removing ACIS operation. Now you've lost mass amounts of low end torque and will not have gained anything up top. you can prove this by zip tieing the actuation lever you'll notice the 3S-GE bogs down if ACIS is open too early in the rev range.

This post has been edited by delusionz: Sep 19, 2009 - 8:25 AM

[turnip]

This was featured in the last Hyper rev for the celica and they claimed 12 ps for the for the non vvti 3sge. In theory it should work and I can see it adding a few ponies over the curve in mid to high rpm from experience and there (hyper rev) dyno in the review indicates that. As for 10-12 at the wheels......thats probably very optimistic. 4-5 would be my guess based on playing with T/Bs on my other race cars. Plus who knows what else was on the car to get that 12ps number they claim. Lots of variables but in theory it does have merit.

Best way to make your car crazy responsive is light flywheel and crank pulley.

post up dyno when you get it.

[delusionz]

TB spacers on the other hand actually increase overall plenum volume. My guess the theory is that the MAP sensor is calibrated with the factory plenum volume, u increase the volume and there should be more air in the plenum, more so than the factory ecu recognises therefore this is a very rudimentary way of tuning the A/F ratio towards the lean side, more power is made on the assumption that the factory ECU runs rich just to be safe.

This theory can fail when you take into consideration a tuned exhaust and a cold air intake, which also adds more air (but gets metered correctly on an untampered plenum and throttle body) starts to bring the A/F ratio closer to stoich and the engine close to peak efficiency, the TB spacer will give the MAP sensor false readings and the A/F ratio leans out too much and cause the knock sensor to tell the ECU to retard ignition.

Im talking out of my ass just like everyone else, its all just theory until the dyno charts of before and after come out.

[turnip]

TB spacers on the other hand actually increase overall plenum volume. My guess the theory is that the MAP sensor is calibrated with the factory plenum volume, u increase the volume and there should be more air in the plenum, more so than the factory ecu recognises therefore this is a very rudimentary way of tuning the A/F ratio towards the lean side, more power is made on the assumption that the factory ECU runs rich just to be safe.

This theory can fail when you take into consideration a tuned exhaust and a cold air intake, which also adds more air (but gets metered correctly on an untampered plenum and throttle body) starts to bring the A/F ratio closer to stoich and the engine close to peak efficiency, the TB spacer will give the MAP sensor false readings and the A/F ratio leans out too much and cause the knock sensor to tell the ECU to retard ignition.

Im talking out of my ass just like everyone else, its all just theory until the dyno charts of before and after come out.

You are correct!! For everday street application this conversation is a little irrelevant. Most people never hold there vehicle at high rpms on the street for very long for any problems to occur. Now on the track excessive leaning out could rear its ugly head and cause some problems real quick. My avg rpm on the track is 5k-8k for a solid 6-8 minutes. Then again I am not using this type of modification to get horsepower because as you stated it could have some detrimental affects. I am going about it correctly with a standalone that monitors the wideband and if it gets to lean it compensates.

[vincent_doggy]

well we pretty much know the standard dyno run figures, so why not just do 1 run??

I have some minor mod like TRD Air Filter, Cyclone, Spark Wires, Iridium Spark Plugs, FGK Header...
so if I do DYNO once with the Power decker spacer, the data must be impressive than stock...

[cyprus_gt]

So today i instal very easy the Customized Power Deck Spacer for 3SGE from Vincent Doggy...
What can i say after 20 km fast driving! For SURE there is a differens- you can feel a little more power and fast responce maybe and a little more torque!I can recomend this mode to everybody who have 3SGE engine!
Only you need to put nicely some glue - the part is not perfectly cut like the original one-and the original one dont have a glue but when you put everything is ok!
So thatsall when i get more miles i will write more info with detail but first impresion is VERY nice about this mode
Thansk Vincent

Cheers

DImitri - Cyprus

p.s.
my car is Automatic SS2 celica with 3SGE 1995 year
mods are:
-K&N panel filter
-TRD sport Exhaust
-Superchip ignition box
-Customized Power Deck Spacer
-Halo sparks

This post has been edited by cyprus_gt: Jan 23, 2010 - 10:03 AM

[sr666]

I apologise for the holy thread revival but I've got one of these on my UK GT ST202 and I'm currently attempting to fit it. I've removed all of the bolts themselves bar the longest studs which the tops are nuts as opposed to screws which would be easier. Does anyone know how I'd go about removing them safely as that's the only thing stopping me from getting it put together again and fitted etc

Many thanks and I apologise again for the bump

[vincent_doggy]

Before Installed 176.5bhp, after 186.3bhp~

Video for the DYNO, click me~

This post has been edited by vincent_doggy: Nov 25, 2012 - 2:10 PM

[199celica]

I apologise for the holy thread revival but I've got one of these on my UK GT ST202 and I'm currently attempting to fit it. I've removed all of the bolts themselves bar the longest studs which the tops are nuts as opposed to screws which would be easier. Does anyone know how I'd go about removing them safely as that's the only thing stopping me from getting it put together again and fitted etc

Many thanks and I apologise again for the bump

Now are you trying to remove the nut or the stud? To remove the stud use the double nut method thread 2 nuts on the stud the lower nut spin left and the top nut spin right so they oppose one another and then just spin the bottom nut and the stud will back out. To remove the nut I would say heat the nut up and spray some pb blaster on it then just get a ratchet and maybe a pipe or something to help you out with leverage

[Rusty]

I'm still not convinced personally, haven't seen any good back to back dyno runs

[vincent_doggy]

I'm still not convinced personally, haven't seen any good back to back dyno runs

I also dont think the spacer could get u 2 digit bhp increase.
However, for sure the spacer could gain few bhp up for the 3sge once install.

[Rusty]

well the thing that gets me is that upper section closes high rpm. not open as most people think.

Long runners for low to mid rpm

Short runner for high rpm

[czwalga]

If this really worked I'd buy one.... but could lean the engine out. I just don't see it having much effect though.

[czwalga]

Found this... so yeah pretty much does nothing. 5 months between runs, it could just be the air density... causingthat small of a difference.



"there was 5 months between dyno's

before
180 bhp @ 7300
135.7 lbft @ 4988
after
181.9 bhp @ 7139
135.8 lbft @ 4733"
theres not too much gained low rpm either.
(note not my celica on the dyno)
"