Molesting the 7A-FTE..., NEW UPDATES Options

[OOBE]

New update: Been working on an intake manifold for the last two days...just experimenting and stuff. I'm not sure if it's gonna work good or not, but whatever...I've been guinea-pigging for too long to even care about the wasted money so I'm going crazy and reckless with it, LOL.

It's cool how everything starts with a bare aluminum pipe.


I'm installing ARP head studs tomorrow for extra safety and hopefully break-in the engine this week to take it to the dyno. A few pics, since I never provide visual stuff.

The weapon.


Bye-bye, EGR.


Welding the pipe to the stock manifold.




Not aiming for prettiness.


My hands are too small for belonging to a male...I know.


A teaser.


When it's properly polished, it'll look awesome. We had to fabricate a piece to be able to secure the transmission cable to the throttle body. The engineering was tricky but we achieved it.

More later.

[presure2]

NNNNIIIIICCCEEEEE!!!
cant wait to see it finished!

[FunkySR]

woooo cant wait. if it is a success i will pay you for one,

[OOBE]

Hehe, thanks guys! Here are some more pictures...

















This post has been edited by OOBE: Oct 11, 2009 - 10:12 AM

[OOBE]

[OOBE]

The downpipe is made of 316 stainless steel piping. That was ridiculously expensive stuff, but it looks pretty when polished. The intercooler is brand new. Heck, the only things not brand new are the the turbo, the injectors and the FPR, LOL. All the engine internals except the rods are new, as well as the engine pumps, piping and miscellaneous stuff. It's my first car so I decided to extend its life, heh. Today we're finishing the intercooler piping and welding the exhaust piping and stuff.

[6GenCelicaST]

That looks so sick:D

[OOBE]

Thanks, mate. She's breathing thank God...but I got scared because at first the engine wouldn't run. Turns out I forgot to connect the positive terminal of the trunk battery. Whoops. That's where the fuel pump is taking its constant power, LOL. The engine was surprisingly quiet with the open downpipe. We just got done welding the downpipe to the muffler.

Downpipe completed. Gotta send it to get ceramic coating.


New midpipe.


Look at the restriction on the old one. It went down under 2.5". Amazing that the engine worked fine for so long with that crazyness.


3" vs 2.5", woo-hoo. Car is surprisingly quieter now despite the increase in piping diameter.


Look at that half-ass job. Six years with that BS installed and never noticed until recently. You can tell I don't use the car, LOL.


Flexible connected to midpipe with a v-band.


Looks so clean now compared to the previous muffler shop hackjob.


I love the aggressiveness of the new FMIC.


Gotta take care of small details, like wiring the TPS and installing a catchcan.


A little vid. Enjoy the Spanish "gibberish", LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rpEW6LnfYY

This post has been edited by OOBE: Oct 11, 2009 - 10:28 PM

[CelicaST_CALI]

DAMMM oobe does it again dyno???

[SwissFerdi]

I love you.

[OOBE]

LOL. I'm calling a tow truck right now because my registration expired in August. I need to get the car out of the "shop" (it's his house up in the mountains, LOL) because the guy needs the space. He's going to fabricate intercooler piping and exhaust piping for a Genesis Coupe 2.0T and do some tricks to it.

Anyway, I need to break-in the engine before taking it to the dyno. I need to wire the TPS and install the Innovate LM-1. I also need an upstream oxygen sensor. Right now, I only have the downstream one and while the car is running good, psychologically, I'm bothered by it lacking the upper one, LOL.

[lagos]

That looks great dude. Next mod... new camera!

[FunkySR]

Oobe, what management are you running.

[OOBE]

LOL, I have a good camera. Just didn't wanna take it up there in the wet mountains, so I used my cellphone. Funky, I'm running a GReddy e-Manage.

[808celica]

That clamp is sooo Monstah!!!!!!!! should keep the prefaced bumper for a sleeper look Who knew that little motor could Good stuff bro

[SwissFerdi]

LOL, I have a good camera. Just didn't wanna take it up there in the wet mountains, so I used my cellphone. Funky, I'm running a GReddy e-Manage.

Less crappy cell phone then.

[Nartanian]

I love the progress so far. I didn't think a 7a could take up such a nice sized turbo. One quick question though. Would that small spot cause an issue? I don't think so, but I wouldn't want it to if it could.

[aznpnoiboi55]

DAMM.....love whats going one dude can wait to c it finished

[nik]

I love the progress so far. I didn't think a 7a could take up such a nice sized turbo.

my 7agte has a t3 t4 ..( yes different head but same displacement)

[Kiamycelica]

I wanna do this to my 7a-fe. I plan on rebuilding the entire engine. What do you suggest for pistons and rods? What did you do about your head? Leave it stock or what? What turbo Manifold did you use.?

[OOBE]

My head is stock. Pistons and rods? There's Belfab Racing, Spool and Maxspeeding. For pistons, Arias makes some. I have a JGS turbo manifold. I'll probably sell it next month. I'm getting one custom made. Well, tomorrow I'm taking this bad boy to the dyno. Chances of catastrophic engine failure: HIGH.

[SwissFerdi]

Dude, if you're gonna destroy it...might as well ship the engine to me on the cheap.

[OOBE]

Alright, went to the dyno yesterday. We decided to eliminate the chance of breaking the engine by the fault of tuning and agreed to go very safe with pretty retarded timing and the AFR on 10.3. Even though doing it this way robs a lot of power that could be made, we still got 187.70 WHP at 9.94 PSI on the wastegate spring. It would've been over 200 WHP if the car had a manual tranny. With forged pistons and rods, it would've been safer to lean it up a bit and give it more timing advance to get considerably more power. So knowing that is good enough for me. Oh, the torque was always higher than the horsepower, which made me smile. I don't have the runfiles and the print-out doesn't have the torque, so that's why I didn't give you numbers.

Now to the bad news. Due to a faulty manual boost controller, on the last pass, not even going WOT, it overboosted to 18.1 PSI out of nowhere and I let off the throttle, but it was too late. We heard a sharp cracking sound and a bit of smoke started coming out of where the PCV valve goes. It put down 222.53 WHP. AFR was still at a pig rich 10.3 and timing was safe according to the expensive digital timing gun we used, so I concluded that these replacement pistons are garbage. Car still runs good like nothing happened other that sounding a bit like it's cammed-out, but it spits oil out of the PCV outlet under boost. I'm sure the same piston broke on the same spot like last time. The ringlands are weak. I'm not going to waste any more money or time on stock internals because I think this was enough to know the limits of the pistons, so this is the end of my journey here with them and with piggybacks. Rods are fine and dandy so contrary to popular belief, they're stronger than people thought and shouldn't be the first concern. Pistons are the weak link. The next person that ever posts that the 7A-FE's rods are very weak because of how skinny they are will be flamed with no mercy.

Next week I'll be shopping for forged internals and once I get time, I will get them installed and then I'll get to installing the standalone EMS to be able to play with the tuning the way God intends. Then we'll go to the second stage of proving the 7A-FE and its slouchness.

[SwissFerdi]

Wait...I thought you had done work on the internals, but you're only running aftermarket pistons?

And 187 WHP is AWESOME. I had no idea it would be so high. What do you think 8 should produce?

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Oct 26, 2009 - 3:45 PM

[Kiamycelica]

no his whole block and head is STOCK so those numbers are pretty Amazing <3

[crwarrior]

motivating me to boost my 7a...YOUR AMAZING MAN KEEP IT UP!

[FunkySR]

do it warrior

[crwarrior]

i know i should right? man itll be so awesome...since im auto ill have full boost...but i wish i had the money and the actual skill to do it myself AND another car lol my celi is my only car...unless i buy another celi and then boost my current one...who knows maybe im that crazy to actually do that lol but it wouldnt make sense cuz the money id waist on the new celi couldve been used for the boost...sigh decisions decisions

[Kiamycelica]

civic radiator?

[OOBE]

If it's your only car, don't boost it. You'll always end up breaking something. Anyway, my car is hurt. The temperature guauge wasn't working, and the radiator fan's positive cable unsoldered from inside, so the car overheated and it's messed up now. I was going to an appointment at the VA hospital and BOOM...coolant and steam everywhere. I left it in a parking lot and went to my appointment, then came back an hour later and called a tow truck. $100 to tow it back home. I think the head warped, because it won't even idle, and it misfires like crazy. I asked for it. Should've gotten the gauge working and a better fan. It was a cheap $35 fan from Pep Boys. Another lesson on why not to cheap out on a car.

Today I ordered Spool forged rods from Australia and tomorrow I'll talk to my tuner to see what we're going to do piston-wise in terms of compression, etc. I'll give CP a call to see what they can do for me. I dig their pistons. A guy from the local forums wants my e-Manage so I'll let it go for $250 with everything.

[CelicaST_CALI]

oobe,you have to much money..and ur dumping a lot into the 7ate..its wonderful...

[Mstoochn]

oobe,you have to much money..and ur dumping a lot into the 7ate..its wonderful...

sounds like someone i no, go all out or dont go at all

[Kiamycelica]

damn sucks about the overheating. Cant wait to see the rods

[SwissFerdi]

If it's your only car, don't boost it.

I wish you hadn't said that.

[richee3]

If it's your only car, don't boost it.

I wish you hadn't said that.

Ferdi, it's your only car. Boost it! Lol.

Those are some pretty amazing numbers you put down, OOBE.

[FunkySR]

well mine was and is my only car...and i will do more modding tomorrow.

[SwissFerdi]

^ I'll be asking you a lot of questions in the future, my man.

[OOBE]

If it's your only car, don't boost it.

I wish you hadn't said that.

Ferdi, it's your only car. Boost it! Lol.

Those are some pretty amazing numbers you put down, OOBE.

Thanks, man. To me they're not amazing, though. What's coming soon WILL be amazing, at least for us with 7A-FEs.

[CelicaST_CALI]

Im excited...haha

[OOBE]

oobe,you have to much money..and ur dumping a lot into the 7ate..its wonderful...

LOL...if I had too much money, I would've finished the car already. But yeah, it's wonderful.

Hey guys, lookie what OOBE just got in the mail...straight from Aussie Land.


Hmmm, what is that?

[SwissFerdi]

:drool:

[Stambo]

how much those suckers run yea?

[OOBE]

$583 shipped. They got here in a week. Pretty quick if you ask me. In two weeks, I order the pistons.

[SwissFerdi]

OOBE...start convincing. Jim is throwing the Gen3 sermon on me.

[OOBE]

Go for the 3S, man. I'm only doing this to see if the 7A is capable, but it's not cheap. I already was heavily invested in this engine, even though it was on just repeat external mods, which is why I kept going. My tuner has gotten 400 WHP on stock internals with the 2nd gen 3S and a standalone EMS. It's a strong engine. To get that on the 7A, which I'm not sure if it'll hold that power because it hasn't been done, you need to do everything.

My turbo has put out 431 WHP on a 7th gen Celica, I only need to order forged pistons, and I have enough fuel and flow for that power. So one might think that my engine doesn't have anything to envy from a 3S. Well, what about a tranny that holds the power? Most important, not knowing if the engine will physically hold itself together at that power level.

What I'm saying is that while the 7A will probably be on its physical limits, the 3S will not be even breaking a sweat. Now, I'm assuming here. Nobody knows yet. We're just going by the "7A is a weak engine" mentality. Who knows if this engine is stronger internally than what it is believed. Just by its looks is not enough. We can only assume by our ignorance. I have proven that it can take good boost with good tuning and that the rods don't let go before the pistons. Now I have to see if the block will hold. This is another level now.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration now: what if I get valve float. Will I need better valve springs? See? Little by little, more factors come into play. Once you iron a wrinkle, you get another one.

[SwissFerdi]

I completely understand what you're saying. However, I'm not sure I need the power. I'm not looking to drag the car and I'm not even purely looking for numbers, just a little more kick in daily driving and a little extra power to cruise around local roads. See, if the power limit of the 7A-FTE was 300HP, it would be no question. But since it seems to be right at 240, it makes me wonder if I'll get the power bug and want more eventually, which we know is not feasible. Is 200WHP enough for me? Yes. Will it remain enough? I'm not sure. That crucial point where the internals start being bothered is what bugs me.

If I definitely knew that the 7A-FTE was much cheaper (which is what I originally thought) or if I'd be satisfied with it in the long term, it'd be different. I applaud the route you're going, but it's not for me to open the engine and strengthen every little thing. I want reliability (only car, DD), and a reasonable level of fun.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 15, 2009 - 6:59 PM

[OOBE]

In that case, a swap is your best bet. When you get tired of the stock power, you can bump it while staying reliable. EVERYBODY craves more boost. You'll start feeling your car getting slower, which is just an effect of getting used to the power. A turbo car is not like a naturally aspirated car. Why do you think I keep breaking my engine? I could've left it at 10 PSI and be done with it, but the same day it started feeling slower. When I first turbocharged it, at only 3 PSI the car felt way faster and I said to myself, "Wow, this is enough for me." BS. I wanted only 200 WHP and was going to stop at that. Now I want more.

[SwissFerdi]

You're probably right. Still...a 7A-FTE is pretty unique, and for some reason...seems more special than a Gen3.

Well, if I ever get a GT-4, I sure hope the novelty won't have worn off.

[OOBE]

It seems more special. yes. That's one reason that keeps me going. For one, I don't like the exhaust note of the 3S. I love the exhaust note of the 7A. Personal likes. Life is about joys, and little things like that bring joy.

[SwissFerdi]

I do like how the 7A sounds, even in stock form.

But y'know what, I need at least a year to collect funds, I'll keep my mind open and think about my options. In the meantime, I'll just keep following this thread & others like it.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 15, 2009 - 8:35 PM

[Stambo]

You think forged internals is necessary for even 8-9 pounds? You did say that 8-9 pounds is fine, but for the DD think forged is the way to go?

[SwissFerdi]

Pretty sure forged isn't necessary unless you're going over 10 PSI.

[OOBE]

Don't go by PSI. Every turbo is different. But yeah, with a T3/T4, 10-12 PSI on stock internals is fine for daily driving...as long as it has good tuning.

[richee3]

Good info in this thread. Keep doing your thing, OOBE.

[CelicaST_CALI]

mmmmm assembly lube....

[Stambo]

aint a t3/t4 little to big?

[OOBE]

NO!

Not for my goals, but for someone else, it might be too big. I'm sacrificing spool.

[SwissFerdi]

At least you're pushing it properly.

I'd probably go for something small, even power across the board.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 19, 2009 - 7:46 PM

[OOBE]

An hour ago I was exchanging e-mails with a JE rep.
[i]Ramon,

We do not shelf stock these pistons, however we can certainly make them for you. The lead time is about 3 weeks and the price is about $165 each piston with pins, locks, and rings.

Thanks,

Nick

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The skirt coating is $20.50 each piston, and the ceramic crown coating is $26.00 each piston.

Thanks,

Nickolaus DiBlasi
Sport Compact Specialist / Technical Sales
JE Pistons / Sportsman Racing Products
15312 Connector Lane
Huntington Beach, Ca 92649



I'll probably go with CP, though. I'm a sucker for their piston design, and they're lightweight, too. Plus, that's what my tuner runs in his 3S-GTE. He'll work on my engine happier if I sport some CP gear too.

[keison2000]

OObe, you are doing an outstanding job on your 7A... I hope you are done with it before the spring. I am thinking about just turboing my 7A instead of swapping a 4agze and replacing the supercharger with a turbo... I think with only 122k on my 7a it should be prime for a turbo....

This post has been edited by keison2000: Nov 20, 2009 - 12:14 PM

[OOBE]

Thanks, man. I should be done in two months. Just taking it easy. In regards to your project, ss long as the engine has had good maintenance and it has good compression, it shouldn't give you trouble. Just make sure you do everything right from the get go and DO NOT cheap out on anything. And tuning is MOST important. You need to keep the timing in check. Anyway, just got an e-mail from CP...so I'm happy. I'm going to buy my pistons from them :

"Tarman, Darius" <dtarman@cppistons.com>

We do make pistons for the Toyota 7A-FE engine. Your cost would be $161 each for pistons, wrist pins, locks, pin fitted, and rings.



Best Regards,



Darius Tarman

----------------------------------------------------------------
So they're $4 cheaper than JE. Big deal. Even if they were more expensive, I would get them from CP. Waiting on his reply so I can pull the trigger.

[FunkySR]

OObe, you are doing an outstanding job on your 7A... I hope you are done with it before the spring. I am thinking about just turboing my 7A instead of swapping a 4agze and replacing the supercharger with a turbo... I think with only 122k on my 7a it should be prime for a turbo....

I have 194k on my 7afte so you have no issues.

[keison2000]

How are you bud? Thanks for the comment. I hit the road in my celi today and I noticed that at like 80 mph/160kph, the engine speed is at 4100 rpms, it wouldn't change if I turboed my celi, but is it safe for me to run the 7a at that speed, especially if I turbo my celi. If not, is the 3s any better...The cabin does get pretty loud. I think I"m going to seriously upgrade my stereo...LOL

[richee3]

How are you bud? Thanks for the comment. I hit the road in my celi today and I noticed that at like 80 mph/160kph, the engine speed is at 4100 rpms, it wouldn't change if I turboed my celi, but is it safe for me to run the 7a at that speed, especially if I turbo my celi. If not, is the 3s any better...The cabin does get pretty loud. I think I"m going to seriously upgrade my stereo...LOL

Do it. You'll thank yourself.

CP pistons in the 7A-FTE? I shudder to think of a total project cost here... But man, it's an awesome thing you've got going.

[SwissFerdi]

How are you bud? Thanks for the comment. I hit the road in my celi today and I noticed that at like 80 mph/160kph, the engine speed is at 4100 rpms, it wouldn't change if I turboed my celi, but is it safe for me to run the 7a at that speed, especially if I turbo my celi. If not, is the 3s any better...The cabin does get pretty loud. I think I"m going to seriously upgrade my stereo...LOL

80 MPH is around 130 KMH.

[OOBE]

How are you bud? Thanks for the comment. I hit the road in my celi today and I noticed that at like 80 mph/160kph, the engine speed is at 4100 rpms, it wouldn't change if I turboed my celi, but is it safe for me to run the 7a at that speed, especially if I turbo my celi. If not, is the 3s any better...The cabin does get pretty loud. I think I"m going to seriously upgrade my stereo...LOL

Do it. You'll thank yourself.

CP pistons in the 7A-FTE? I shudder to think of a total project cost here... But man, it's an awesome thing you've got going.

Well, it would be more painful and expensive to install a 3S and doing all the tranny work and stuff. My engine is already in the car, plus I already had custom parts made for it. I'm too invested, plus I want to explore the possibilities with it. Even the 5E-FE, which is a puny 1.5 liter engine from the Toyota Tercel and Paseo, has been proven here in the island to hold A LOT of boost and has already run 9 seconds in the quarter mile (with a worked stock automatic tranny to boot ).

Why can't the 7A-FE see glory like this smaller economy engine? It has a cast iron block. Trust me that it'll hold good power. Mark these words. My tuner and his brother are very motivated to make some numbers with my engine and make a new record in the island. At first they wanted to swap in the 3S but after the intake manifold was done and all the intercooler piping, they saw the engine in a new light. They say this will shut up a lot of people that are calling me stupid for spending money on this engine. It's MY freakin' money anyway. I'll spend it how I want.

[OOBE]

Don't worry, baby. You'll be alive soon and we'll have lots of fun and I will never sell you. I promise.

[SwissFerdi]

Fapfap.

Fap.

[CelicaST_CALI]

I enjoy the way your engine bay looks..

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Nov 25, 2009 - 8:46 PM

[presure2]

Ironic how both of you post back to back, 100% usless posts.
Ferdi , take this as a friendly reminder to control the whoreing
you get no warning this time, only the stick.


Oobe looks great, man.
I absolutely love your additude about the 7a. If we had more minds that thought like that, the community as a whole would be farther along when it comes to the stock engines we have to work with.

[OOBE]

Thanks, man. That means a lot coming from you. I just want to show what this engine can do. And I'm sure once I pave this road, more people will follow. And it happened first here, in 6gc.net.

[keison2000]

Sweet Looking Engine Bay Oobe....

[FunkySR]

Dont wprry man. you have me and Steff not far behind.

[SwissFerdi]

Ironic how both of you post back to back, 100% usless posts.
Ferdi , take this as a friendly reminder to control the whoreing
you get no warning this time, only the stick.

Manny, I apologize, but I didn't mean anything by it. I simply wanted to convey my enjoyment. Guess I'll put it into different words next time.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Nov 24, 2009 - 8:05 PM

[CelicaST_CALI]

/thread

[OOBE]

I'm not going to lie to you. I am indeed sad about this. I wanted to see what this engine was capable of. Now, I'm changing my mind about selling the engine. It's not like I need the money. I would just be recouping some of the cost of the other engine, but I'm not really in desperate need of money. The way I see it, this 7A-FE is part of my Celica, and this is my first car. If I sell the engine, I'm selling my Celica's heart. Call me silly, but I'm just going to keep it. I'll preserve it and keep it stored until I get a Toyota Tercel or a Corolla or something sometime this year and swap it in. Maybe I'll put a small T3 turbo on it and keep it low boost to daily it.

[CelicaST_CALI]

Whats the next engine to molest ?

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Jan 2, 2010 - 2:06 AM

[OOBE]

Check my new thread. Let's leave this one to rest in peace.

[HaysoosKreesto]

^Can I have the link to the new thread lol? I loved reading this and wouldn't mind reading the next .