Strange ignition problem Options

[Quidam]

So I love my new GT4, far more than I thought I would when I first bought it. No longer a daily driver (as my first intention) it now shares duties evenly with my beloved MX5

But this morning when I tried to fire the car up, all I got was a single "clump" noise. First thought, maybe the battery is almost dead -but the battery was fine. (all electrics running without issue) Tried again and it fired up fine. So I killed the engine and tried again, same issue -a single little "clump" then nothing. And again and again. Finally it decided to fire up.

Strange thing is when it does ignite, it does it brilliantly without any struggle or delay.

I realise with every question like this I demonstrate my ignorance of all things mechanical, but that's why I'm asking -I really haven't a clue as to what this could be. Spark Plugs? I have dropped the car off this morning at my local mechanics and have asked them to investigate, but I'm betting it probably won't even fail for them (Murphy's Law) and am interested in anyones thoughts

Cheers
b

[HaysoosKreesto]

As far as I know, the two major causes for the engine not firing are the battery and the starter. There are millions of other potential problems (not enough back pressure, fuel pump, etc) but lets focus on the two .

Since all electronics are fine, perhaps the starter is having trouble starting?

edit: hey don't ever feel embarrassed to ask questions, that's the only way we can learn. And you would get much better results if you asked this in the "Engine/Transmission" section of 6gc.com

GOOD LUCK!

This post has been edited by HaysoosKreesto: Dec 2, 2009 - 2:48 PM

[Quidam]

Thanks mate.

Yep, have spoken to the mechanics and they are thinking most likely the starter-motor (they were suggesting worn contacts) although before they can confirm they will need to see if they can make it fault for them.

regardless, I've phoned the dealer and it sounds like they will be willing to have this fixed at their expense.

ps I'm getting my mechanics to have a general look-over the car to see if there is anything else I might need to hit them up about while I'm at it

[Quidam]

So my Mechanics could not repeat the fault and the dealers are going to get their guy to have a look at it tomorrow (the car is with them now).

The thing is, the starter motor on the GT4 is apparently somewhat of a mission to get at, so I'm not too sure that they will be willing to even try if they can't cause the fualt to occur.

I can see this turning into a bid of headache guess I'll find out tomorrow

This post has been edited by Quidam: Dec 3, 2009 - 12:17 AM

[delusionz]

Atleast your turbo hasn't blown in your 1st week (Knock on wood)

Remember oil change every 5000 and filter change atleast every 2nd change or every 10,000

[solidxsnake]

I'd say starter solenoid. I had the exact same problem with my starter several months back. Turning the key at times would lead to a loud click, but the engine would not crank. Every so often, it would take 10-30 turns of the key to the START position to get the starter solenoid to engage properly and crank the engine.

The fix was roughly $30 worth of parts and maybe an hour or two of dis-assembly, cleaning, and reassembly. Keep in mind this was with me on a 7A-FE engine with what seemed to be seized bolts. The starter is buried under the intake manifold on the 7A and is a bitch to get at. Not sure about the 3S-GTE.

Either way, I'd replace the starter solenoid contacts before buying any other part. They're cheap. At the very least, pull the starter and check the contacts before buying them. Put up pics if you can and we can look at them.

[Quidam]

I'd say starter solenoid. I had the exact same problem with my starter several months back. Turning the key at times would lead to a loud click, but the engine would not crank. Every so often, it would take 10-30 turns of the key to the START position to get the starter solenoid to engage properly and crank the engine.

The fix was roughly $30 worth of parts and maybe an hour or two of dis-assembly, cleaning, and reassembly. Keep in mind this was with me on a 7A-FE engine with what seemed to be seized bolts. The starter is buried under the intake manifold on the 7A and is a bitch to get at. Not sure about the 3S-GTE.

Either way, I'd replace the starter solenoid contacts before buying any other part. They're cheap. At the very least, pull the starter and check the contacts before buying them. Put up pics if you can and we can look at them.

Ahh, thanks for this, that sounds very plausible as the symptoms you are describing sound exactly the same as mine. Well anyway the dealership has agreed to fix this problem free of charge, the only thing is, they don't yet know what the problem is. I will call them tomorrow and mention the Starter Solenoid as a definate possibility.

ps. I've been given one of their yard cars to drive in, a stinky Subaru Imprezza with auto transmission -Yuk
pps. call me paranoid but I'll be very upset if my brand new 18inch mags have any curbing on them when I get the car back

[Quidam]

Atleast your turbo hasn't blown in your 1st week (Knock on wood)

Remember oil change every 5000 and filter change atleast every 2nd change or every 10,000

Dude stop trying to curse me lol. Actually I had my mechanics do a post purchase inspection of my car and they drew the same conclusion I did. It is in supurb condition for its age and milage. The only two things they found were:
1) 1 low beam light has a slightly blue coloured bulb in it (apparently illegal)
2) There is a very small amount of oil seeping from the sump and rear diff. but he said the amount was too small to really worry about (ie it is not dripping) and suggested it could be due to a gasket starting to wear out

[Quidam]

It appears the problem is related to the new AVS alarm I had fitted prior to buying the car.

The mechanic said the alarm is immobilizing the engine even when the alarm is disabled

They had to bump-start me so I could drive the car home and now I have to wait until next week before the alarm guys can come and check it out.

Needless to say they are not willing to admit it is the alarm at fault but are saying they will disable it in order to confirm whether it is the problem or not.

Tiresome

[delusionz]

Really? I had the same problem when we had an AVS alarm installed in our SS-III,

The battery is mounted in the boot, I was using a small battery, the lowest CCA rating you could get in the Century brand, and the ground wire was stock, and the engine didn't have a direct ground (Grounded to the boot).

Granted this is not the ideal situation to have, it still posed no problem at all ever, in many months, That is until the AVS 5 star alarm was installed, it basically sounded like there was plenty of juice but wouldn't turn over at all the starter motor just clicked rapidly.

I had actually gone back to the alarm company and told them their alarm is sucking all my juice, and they told me my grounds were inadequate and to fix it up and bring it back if the problem still persists.

Anyhow, I upgraded the ground wires to 2 gauge (thick), with a direct ground to the engine at the same time I upgraded the size of the battery to a larger CCA rating and the problem disappeared.

So what I figure is the AVS alarm/immobiliser is a big juice sucking unit and you need plenty thick wiring and a good battery to cope with it.

[kavy]

I had the same problem just last week on my 3SGE motor and turned out exactly as solidxsnake said.The starter solenoid.got it replaced for $70.the battery had juice but when i cranked the key,the lights on the dash dimmed out.tried a couple of times then it started.not sure about the alarm though.yer,better get it checked too.

This post has been edited by kavy: Dec 4, 2009 - 9:31 PM

[solidxsnake]

That said, it could also be a combination of it. Sometimes a new battery will make a starter solenoid problem disappear (when it's on the border of working/not working) because it's got just a little more juice to it to jump the gap that exists from worn contacts in the solenoid. But after a while, it won't have its initial high charge, and the problem will return.

With that logic, it's possible that it's still your starter solenoid, assuming delusionz's theory that your alarm may be sucking up too much juice holds true. The alarm system will be pulling just enough power to set your battery below the level it needs to be at to push through the worn starter solenoid contacts.

Just throwing out other possibilities

[Quidam]

That said, it could also be a combination of it. Sometimes a new battery will make a starter solenoid problem disappear (when it's on the border of working/not working) because it's got just a little more juice to it to jump the gap that exists from worn contacts in the solenoid. But after a while, it won't have its initial high charge, and the problem will return.

With that logic, it's possible that it's still your starter solenoid, assuming delusionz's theory that your alarm may be sucking up too much juice holds true. The alarm system will be pulling just enough power to set your battery below the level it needs to be at to push through the worn starter solenoid contacts.

Just throwing out other possibilities

Hey dude, I actually called the mechanic back and asked him to confirm exactly why he believed it was the alarm, and he said that when you try to turn the engine on the alarms light actually flashes back on for a few moments, and he is dead right.

There is a small click, the blue light flashes (I assume indicating the immobiliser is kicking in)

I'm rather convinced the alarms brain is faulty -guess well see when the alarm guy comes around.

[Quidam]

just bumping for update:

The AVS alarm was at fault. Specifically, it was immobilising the engine full-time.

Currently, that part of the circuitry has been disabled, meaning the alarm feature still works, and the installer has ordered a new alarm from AVS under warranty