Feedback in Subs Options

[Random_Stranger]

It never really did that before, can anyone tell me what that means and how I can fix that? If I undo my seat belt, sometimes that breaks it but it comes right back, or if I lower or raise my window.... It's the craziest thing, but I hate hearing it when I accelerate thinking I got a supercharger or something. It's really annoying.

[solidxsnake]

Sure the power and signal wiring aren't run next to eachother?

[Random_Stranger]

Sure the power and signal wiring aren't run next to eachother?

Oh, well they have always been. Is that my problem? I have to go and insulate both from one another?

[dabazied]

Yes sir, and are they both on the side that the fuel filter is on, or the opposite side of the car?

[Random_Stranger]

Yes sir, and are they both on the side that the fuel filter is on, or the opposite side of the car?

I didn't install mine, but I imagine the same side, since the gas cap is on that side.

[dabazied]

In addition to them being on the same side, you are actually supposed to have (i have a 50-50 chance on this one, but I think I'm right) the signal wiring on the side opposite where the fuel filter is located because that can cause some interference as well.

[solidxsnake]

Quite possible.

Before I ever got into cars, I always read not to run power lines and audio lines next to each other. This spans across a broader range than just car audio into any audio application (and essentially any electronics).

Run the signal wire on the opposite side of the car from the power. Since dabazied could very well be hitting another factor, might as well be safe rather than sorry and run the audio wire opposite the fuel filter to eliminate that variable. Should get rid of your problem.

Good luck!

[Random_Stranger]

Alright thanks. I guess I have to dig that carpet up and move thing around then. Thanks guys. Any reason why this would come about all of a sudden though? It never really happened until I installed a relay for my fog lights and supplied them with a better ground.

[dabazied]

Hmmmm.... not quite sure why all of a sudden, but I know those two things are usually rule of thumb with the whole audio system stuff.

[Random_Stranger]

Hmmmm.... not quite sure why all of a sudden, but I know those two things are usually rule of thumb with the whole audio system stuff.

Then that's the last time I let just anyone install it. Lesson learned yet again... Just because someone works at a shop, doesn't mean they know exactly what they are doing. Now I guess I have my work cut out for me tomorrow.

[Remanight]

if that all is not the problem, check your grounding. could be the ground in the back of the head unit

[freddy121389]

yea the magnetic field caused by the power wire and the rca cables causes interference, if you were to separate the two it would dramatically decrease interference also like remanight said check your ground make sure it's touching all metal on a big surface area not just a tiny nut or something like that, ground it directly to the chasis and far away from the rcas

[Random_Stranger]

yea the magnetic field caused by the power wire and the rca cables causes interference, if you were to separate the two it would dramatically decrease interference also like remanight said check your ground make sure it's touching all metal on a big surface area not just a tiny nut or something like that, ground it directly to the chasis and far away from the rcas

Now that is something! I think my RCA wires are in fact in the way. I switched them from my unit to where they were before to another part so I get better sound, only that feedback is driving me nuts. Thanks guys, I really appreciate your fast replies and knowledgeable information.

[richee3]

It was kinda said earlier, but the RCA cables need to be on the passenger side of the car for sure.

[96stgreendemon]

sorry but i beg to differ, it does not matter what side you run the wires on, weather it be the same side or the opposite side, i had the exacact same problem as you have, its called "alternater whine" dont correct my spelling, this is caused by a "ground loop" somewhere in your system, now there is a cheap way to fix this, i actually just installed mine today, the device you need to buy is called a "rca ground loop isolator" it goes into the back of your radio in the rca ports and is almost like an extension, now this comes with 2 little brown wires attached, you take these wires and hook them into your ground, make sure you unplug the wire harness first or you will fry your HU, but disconect the ground and put these 2 brown wires together with the stereo ground and then put them all into the factory ground for the stereo, let me know if you have any problems with this, i have an extra one that i accidently ordered and just let me now if you want it, i will let it go for 20 + shipping, PM me if you have any questions, and if you get it you can call and i will walk you through it, its really easy, hopes this helps

[solidxsnake]

sorry but i beg to differ, it does not matter what side you run the wires on, weather it be the same side or the opposite side, i had the exacact same problem as you have, its called "alternater whine" dont correct my spelling, this is caused by a "ground loop" somewhere in your system, now there is a cheap way to fix this, i actually just installed mine today, the device you need to buy is called a "rca ground loop isolator" it goes into the back of your radio in the rca ports and is almost like an extension, now this comes with 2 little brown wires attached, you take these wires and hook them into your ground, make sure you unplug the wire harness first or you will fry your HU, but disconect the ground and put these 2 brown wires together with the stereo ground and then put them all into the factory ground for the stereo, let me know if you have any problems with this, i have an extra one that i accidently ordered and just let me now if you want it, i will let it go for 20 + shipping, PM me if you have any questions, and if you get it you can call and i will walk you through it, its really easy, hopes this helps

While it may not be the problem in this case, it absolutely matters to run power and signal wires separately. There's quite a bit of power going through those wires, and it can easily distort or interfere with signal going to the speakers. It is true that it has little effect, but it sure doesn't help to run audio and power wires together. Most of the time it won't make any difference if everything is wired and grounded properly, but interference is definitely a real phenomenon.

OP, definitely check your grounds as well. It's the only thing I could really think of after separating signal wires from power.

This post has been edited by solidxsnake: Dec 10, 2009 - 8:12 PM

[dabazied]

The grounding issue is a very likely suspect as well in this, and since he has ran the system a while without issues, probably the more likely, but you still get interference if you run the rcas on the same side as the fuel filter(may not be noticable in some situations but its still there), and def not right next to the power cable.

[richee3]

sorry but i beg to differ, it does not matter what side you run the wires on, weather it be the same side or the opposite side, i had the exacact same problem as you have, its called "alternater whine" dont correct my spelling, this is caused by a "ground loop" somewhere in your system, now there is a cheap way to fix this, i actually just installed mine today, the device you need to buy is called a "rca ground loop isolator" it goes into the back of your radio in the rca ports and is almost like an extension, now this comes with 2 little brown wires attached, you take these wires and hook them into your ground, make sure you unplug the wire harness first or you will fry your HU, but disconect the ground and put these 2 brown wires together with the stereo ground and then put them all into the factory ground for the stereo, let me know if you have any problems with this, i have an extra one that i accidently ordered and just let me now if you want it, i will let it go for 20 + shipping, PM me if you have any questions, and if you get it you can call and i will walk you through it, its really easy, hopes this helps

While it may not be the problem in this case, it absolutely matters to run power and signal wires separately. There's quite a bit of power going through those wires, and it can easily distort or interfere with signal going to the speakers. It is true that it has little effect, but it sure doesn't help to run audio and power wires together. Most of the time it won't make any difference if everything is wired and grounded properly, but interference is definitely a real phenomenon.

OP, definitely check your grounds as well. It's the only thing I could really think of after separating signal wires from power.

^^ That's more what I meant, rather than it matters exactly which side of the car the RCA cable is on. Random_Stranger has his power wire on the driver's side, so the RCA cable needs to be on the passenger side. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The fact that the whine gets louder as the motor is revved tells me it has nothing to do with grounds. Maybe the grounds could be better, but as the RPM's of the engine increase, the alternator puts out more power, more power gets sent through the power wire for the amp, the whine gets higher pitched. I'm not saying the grounds AREN'T to blame, but the RCA cable being too close to the power wire is the most likely suspect here.

[GriffGirl]

Additionally (sorry if this was mentioned already, I didn't read through all the posts) the ground wire and the power wire should not be in too close proximity to each other. Try to keep them as far apart from each other as you can, and make sure your ground is secure and didn't come loose or something. I'm guessing the feedback increases when you accelerate? My previous stereo did that, even though I checked my ground and moved the wires away from each other. (it wasn't sudden though, it was like that when I got my car). Since I've replaced the head unit though, there's no more feedback, even though I didn't change any of the amp wiring.

If moving the cables doesn't help, there's two things you can do. One, is check your alternator ground. IIRC the feedback is actually from the alternator (hence its increase when accelerating). Also you can actually buy a ground kit that you add on to your amp wiring that filters out the noise.

[96stgreendemon]

ok let me reitterate, I HAD THIS EXACT SAME PROBLEM, i ran the power wire and the rca cables down the same side of the car, and yes there was alternator whine, ran the wires on seprate sides of the car there after, still the whine which like richee said did get louder as the car revved, bought a ground loop isolator, installed it today and wtf!!??? its like magic the whine is gone, so maybe i know what i am talking about, take my advise and spend the 20 bucks to get it fixed rather than ripping out the wires and putting them down the other side just to realize hmm its still making the whine, so yes i do know what i am talking about.

[trdproven]

power should be seperate from the Audio cables and then your ground has to be a solid contact.

[dabazied]

ok let me reitterate, I HAD THIS EXACT SAME PROBLEM, i ran the power wire and the rca cables down the same side of the car, and yes there was alternator whine, ran the wires on seprate sides of the car there after, still the whine which like richee said did get louder as the car revved, bought a ground loop isolator, installed it today and wtf!!??? its like magic the whine is gone, so maybe i know what i am talking about, take my advise and spend the 20 bucks to get it fixed rather than ripping out the wires and putting them down the other side just to realize hmm its still making the whine, so yes i do know what i am talking about.

Nobody is saying you are wrong(I'm not at least). I agree, definitely a inexpensive fix for an annoying problem. I agree, since he JUST started getting this problem, it's probably the grounds, but a great rule is to separate the wires and have the rca's on the opposite side from the fuel filter(rca should be on the passenger side on our cars) because interference comes about that way, not constant, but it happens for a decent amount of people. Nuff said. Separate the wires, you will probably still have the whine since this isn't an issue that has been existing for a while, it just popped up. Fix it completely by doing the 20 buck fix. Badda boom badda bing, finito. Any more issues, just post back up Faust.

[richee3]

ok let me reitterate, I HAD THIS EXACT SAME PROBLEM, i ran the power wire and the rca cables down the same side of the car, and yes there was alternator whine, ran the wires on seprate sides of the car there after, still the whine which like richee said did get louder as the car revved, bought a ground loop isolator, installed it today and wtf!!??? its like magic the whine is gone, so maybe i know what i am talking about, take my advise and spend the 20 bucks to get it fixed rather than ripping out the wires and putting them down the other side just to realize hmm its still making the whine, so yes i do know what i am talking about.

I wasn't saying you were wrong either. I was just saying the RCA cable doesn't need to be next to the power cable. The fact that it's got the alternator whine makes me think it's the RCA cable being next to the power cable, but I'm definitely not throwing anything out. Like dabazied said, buy the ground loop isolator and all whining is gone. I was just suggesting a free method of fixing things before any money gets spent.

[Random_Stranger]

sorry but i beg to differ, it does not matter what side you run the wires on, weather it be the same side or the opposite side, i had the exacact same problem as you have, its called "alternater whine" dont correct my spelling, this is caused by a "ground loop" somewhere in your system, now there is a cheap way to fix this, i actually just installed mine today, the device you need to buy is called a "rca ground loop isolator" it goes into the back of your radio in the rca ports and is almost like an extension, now this comes with 2 little brown wires attached, you take these wires and hook them into your ground, make sure you unplug the wire harness first or you will fry your HU, but disconect the ground and put these 2 brown wires together with the stereo ground and then put them all into the factory ground for the stereo, let me know if you have any problems with this, i have an extra one that i accidently ordered and just let me now if you want it, i will let it go for 20 + shipping, PM me if you have any questions, and if you get it you can call and i will walk you through it, its really easy, hopes this helps

Wow, people have called it Alternator Whine before, as when I accelerate, the pitch grows higher, like the sound a supercharger makes (somewhat). I haven't had time to look at really, as it has been raining kind of hard here and I do not have a garage to work in (as there needs to be made room in my garage, which I am waiting until I order the front clip of the car to use up). I appreciate your offer on contacting you for information. I may be requesting your phone number, if I cannot get this on my own.

[brento_bot]

The problem could be any number of things, and it comes down to a process of elimination.

Usually the problem is the RCA wires and the Power wire being run next to each other or they get to close to one another

Another problem could be your amps ground. if the amp is not grounded properly you will get the alternator wine. check the ground is in tight, and is grounded to a non-painted part of the car chassis.

On the odd occasion it can be something else in your car is not grounded properly and is affecting your stereo. i have heard a power antenna that is not properly grounded can cause this, or your head unit may not be grounded properly (this happened to me) even though the ground wire is connected properly, it wasn't good enough so i had to run another wire from a screw in the back of the unit to the chassis of the car.

The ground loop isolator should be a LAST RESORT. it does not fix the problem, it hides it, and you lose sound quality. If all else fails, get one but i recommend trying everything else first.

[trdproven]

if you accelerate and the sound gets louder and follows the shifting, you don't have a good solid negative ground. steel brush it, remove any paint, get a solid ground. I used the one in the rear right panel, there is a bolt right in there.

[Random_Stranger]

if you accelerate and the sound gets louder and follows the shifting, you don't have a good solid negative ground. steel brush it, remove any paint, get a solid ground. I used the one in the rear right panel, there is a bolt right in there.

Well my box in the back slides around a lot and I know my amp is grounded to the front of the car somewhere. It is running alongside the wires that go into my cd player. I think they are the rca jack wires.

[rave2n]

Running the wires together will have no effect on the audio quality being you used well enough wire. You guys can argue it with me all day, but what you hear from hesayshesay is not going to add up to what I do on a daily professional basis. I work with 500x more power in a high RF environment, as well studio environments. Just don't use cheap wire, or get a shielded set for you RCA connection and you won't have the problem. Even though your issue is not from that, it can occur on a extreeeemely rare basis, or for some odd reason you purchased a 3 dollar set of RCA's with no shielding whatsoever.

You issue is grounding of the head unit as others have stated. You can acquire a filter for this problem, or you can run seperate grounds, or combine the amp ground and head unit ground to one central location farthest away from the hood. Its realitively simple.

For those would like to argue further cause i know you will, being ignorant and all.

I wired up the audio for our remote broadcast vehicles, vans specifically. Each has 2 head units, one for internal monitoring, and a second seperate system that resides within the back of the vehicle. The rear is the one I want to speak of, it is powered by a 12volt variable power supply off the battery, or external power via switch. The power supply pushes 4 10 inch speakers, 3 12s, and couple 3 ways, a 20 inch TV, PS3 and 2 800 watt 4ohm amps. All wiring is shielded, all connections are soldered and shield butt splices. The audio is crystal clear. The part that might just amaze everyone is....the audio and power wires, are heatshrinked into one big bundle.....

[96stgreendemon]

Hmm see I do know my car audio

[brento_bot]

Running the wires together will have no effect on the audio quality being you used well enough wire. You guys can argue it with me all day, but what you hear from hesayshesay is not going to add up to what I do on a daily professional basis. I work with 500x more power in a high RF environment, as well studio environments. Just don't use cheap wire, or get a shielded set for you RCA connection and you won't have the problem. Even though your issue is not from that, it can occur on a extreeeemely rare basis, or for some odd reason you purchased a 3 dollar set of RCA's with no shielding whatsoever.

You issue is grounding of the head unit as others have stated. You can acquire a filter for this problem, or you can run seperate grounds, or combine the amp ground and head unit ground to one central location farthest away from the hood. Its realitively simple.

For those would like to argue further cause i know you will, being ignorant and all.

I wired up the audio for our remote broadcast vehicles, vans specifically. Each has 2 head units, one for internal monitoring, and a second seperate system that resides within the back of the vehicle. The rear is the one I want to speak of, it is powered by a 12volt variable power supply off the battery, or external power via switch. The power supply pushes 4 10 inch speakers, 3 12s, and couple 3 ways, a 20 inch TV, PS3 and 2 800 watt 4ohm amps. All wiring is shielded, all connections are soldered and shield butt splices. The audio is crystal clear. The part that might just amaze everyone is....the audio and power wires, are heatshrinked into one big bundle.....

Will i beg to differ, if you have never had that problem then lucky you, but to say that it has no effect is just plain ignorant on your part

i can go out into my car right now and if i decided to run my power wires and my RCA wires next to each other, 100% there will be the alternator whine, just because when you do it doesn't happen doesn't mean that it cant

http://www.termpro.com/articles/noise.html

http://www.caraudiohelp.com/how_to_install...stall_a_car_amp

http://www.ehow.com/how_5219368_eliminate-...stallation.html

All of those are links to how to wire a car audio set-up, and what do you know, they all say to run them separately.

I'm not saying it is def the problem or that what you guys are saying isn't the problem, but running the cables together does have an effect (IN SOME CASES) i for one know that for a fact, because it was the problem in my system at one point

This post has been edited by brento_bot: Dec 11, 2009 - 6:39 PM

[GriffGirl]

Why is this turning into some weird argument/pissing match? WTF?

Faust: Ground Loop Isolator or here or here too

[Random_Stranger]

Why is this turning into some weird argument/pissing match? WTF?

Faust: Ground Loop Isolator or here or here too

Thanks Michelle! Giiiiiiiiiiiiiirl, you've been on top of things today! Thank you for all your help.

This post has been edited by Random_Stranger: Dec 11, 2009 - 10:47 PM

[trdproven]

For me, I've listened to Pros and listened to backyard installers, both will claim to be right, but I just use their knowledge only as opinions and use and make my own judgement. I've been a good backyard installer and don't even listen to the ones who claim to be pros. In my experience people will claim to be pros, certified, etc. but the best mechanics and installers are usually those without certifications. For example ASE mechanics claim to be the right or better but the best i've seen are NOT ASE certified. I prefer people with experience not necessarily certified. I'm not saying anything bad about rave2n, I'm sure he has his concepts right. but Whatever pros say, who cares, we don't have the time or money sometimes and if you wanna be truly safe seperate the wires on either sides. Just get a good solid ground thats it. Who cares about good wires you can take care of it and not worry or spend more money by just seperating it and also getting a good amp ground. Lets not make it more complicated its just fundamental sounds not bass or decibel competitions.

[gt_driFFter]

A lot of mis-information in this thread!

To clarify:

-for a SUB AMP, it is not important to run rca's and power separate. Subwoofers operate at too low of a frequency to be affected by noise/interferance from the power wire. However, a 4 channel amp that powers interior/coaxial speakers will definately need the signal and power wires ran separately.

-Alternator whine will ABSOLUTELY be consistant with engine rpm! As your engine spins faster, your alternator will obviously spin faster too.

-Ground loop isolator's are usually a last resort, after you have troubleshooted every other component in the car.


As other's have said, it can be a number of things
-bad amp ground
-RCA cables might be pinched/exposed
-the head unit RCA pre-outs could be bad
-the RCA inputs on the amp could be bad.

Any questions RandomStranger, feel free to pm me.

[gt_driFFter]

The fact that the whine gets louder as the motor is revved tells me it has nothing to do with grounds.

Alternator whine is almost always caused by a GROUND loop.

[rave2n]

Sry if I sounded like a asshat about it, its something I've had to argue with people in person a few times, so i tend to jump when its started.

But one thing is correct, it never hurts to be safe...so just split the lines, and make your grounds perfect.

[richee3]

Sry if I sounded like a asshat about it, its something I've had to argue with people in person a few times, so i tend to jump when its started.

But one thing is correct, it never hurts to be safe...so just split the lines, and make your grounds perfect.

Agreed. The only thing you said that I disagree with is the ground for the amp and the headunit. It's all find and dandy to have them grounded together, as long as your ground is close the amp. You want it grounded as close as possible to the amp. In other words, if your amp is in the trunk, you don't want to ground it up by the headunit. Otherwise, shielded RCA cable = good and good grounding = very good.

[brento_bot]

just read through all this again, and realized i sound like a total twat.

Apologies

[dabazied]

just read through all this again, and realized i sound like a total twat.

Apologies

You were just very adamant about your point

[trdproven]

A lot of mis-information in this thread!

To clarify:

-for a SUB AMP, it is not important to run rca's and power separate. Subwoofers operate at too low of a frequency to be affected by noise/interferance from the power wire. However, a 4 channel amp that powers interior/coaxial speakers will definately need the signal and power wires ran separately.

-Alternator whine will ABSOLUTELY be consistant with engine rpm! As your engine spins faster, your alternator will obviously spin faster too.

-Ground loop isolator's are usually a last resort, after you have troubleshooted every other component in the car.


As other's have said, it can be a number of things
-bad amp ground
-RCA cables might be pinched/exposed
-the head unit RCA pre-outs could be bad
-the RCA inputs on the amp could be bad.

Any questions RandomStranger, feel free to pm me.

just remember you better take into an account peoples setups, not everyone can afford or has resources to have a seperate sub amp. Some people run all their speakers from one amp even the sub. I've been doin this for 12 years. Im not a pro but i don't have problems with audio equipment because of my setups.

my concept, is eliminate any possibities so for sure you don't have to worry about it all. most of all really, is it gonna kill you to seperate the wires.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Dec 16, 2009 - 12:56 AM