Progress thread: 3VZ-F(T)E V6 Swap into my 94 GT, The V6 RUNS! Options

[stephen_lee]

I've been talkin about a 3VZ swap for quite some time now (~3yrs).
I found a fairly decent, non-running, 94 GT last july for $300. Beautiful interior and everything, only a dent in the drivers door, and a broken bumper (which i have a few spares..)
Soo I picked up a manual 92 ES300 a few months ago as a donor car for my swap
I've been driving it and good god the motor is a beast. the torque is there 100% of the time - even at 2000 rpm. The intake sounds like a pissed off Porsche. After feeling a 3s swap(DEATH) and driving the lex, i think it should produce about the same results, if not better, stock for stock. now adding the turbo should up my power even more considerably since i have 50% more displacement over the 3s. This motor redlines at 6600 and fuel cuts at 7200rpm, but falls on its face around 5600-5800RPM - comparable to the 7a. I'm thinking a good turbo will alleviate that problem i washed the engine recently and somehow killed the AFM so when i swap I'm going megasquirt EMS will reduce a lot of clutter in the engine bay and clean up sensors, even making it easier to turbo later. 4BAR map W/ baro correction.

From Wiki:
"The 1992–1993 engine has 185 hp (138 kW) at 5800 rpm and 189 ft·lbf (256 N·m) at 4600 rpm. 1994+ have 200 hp (149 kW) at 5800 rpm and 204 ft·lbf (277 N·m) at 4600 rpm. There is no mechanical difference in the engine. In an embarrassing move, Toyota inadvertently created an engine competing with the more performance oriented 7M-GE (200 hp) and 2JZ-GE (225 hp) installed in sportier, more luxurious cars of the time. Because of this; the stock ignition timing and fueling was noticeably detuned. The power spread of the 3VZ-FE is wide, having 100% torque between 2500–4600 rpm, with power trailing off by 6000 rpm. Stock redline is 6600 rpm, and the ECU's fuel/ignition cut is 7200 rpm."

"The 3VZ-FE has a larger forged steel crankshaft and large cast rods. They can handle double the stock power output, although forged pistons & rods are recommended. A few nitrous and turbocharged examples match or exceed 450 hp (336 kW) on both the stock engine and engine management with a piggyback chip controlling fuel & ignition."


FOR NON-READERS

Engine:
92 ES300 with 3VZFE
E53 (E153) Transmission && LSD
185HP & 189TQ

Receiving car:
94 White GT
Auto Tranny (not for long..) no longer auto!
Megasquirt EMS
Turbo plans in place

Shopping List:

1. Shell for swap
2. 3VZ-FE
3. E53/E153
4. Engine rebuild bits
5. Machine Work
6. Tranny rebuild bits
7. ST205 Shift Cables
8. ST205 Rear Mount
9. ST204 front/side mounts
10. Poly inserts
11. MegaSquirt
12. Turbo Bits
13. 3L2 Paint
14. GT4 front and riser blocks

Bold items need to be bought still






































































[code][/code]

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Feb 9, 2012 - 9:28 AM

[Ted95]

should be a fun thread to watch, keep us updated!

[SwissFerdi]

Nice! Pics of the donor car and swap recipient?

[stephen_lee]

Nice! Pics of the donor car and swap recipient?

will have those up when I get my digicam workin

[cjh4l22]

i'm doubly interested, see if you have any luck finding a way to TT that beast...
interested in intake/exhaust manifold(s) pictures

[stephen_lee]

Not going TT. I believe a single turbo over/in front of the tranny w/ a similar W2A setup as stephs 7AFTE. Nice short charge piping and reduced lag . I'm going to have fun designing and building the manifold forthis beast lol.

[spolski07]

Victoria isnt a far drive! let me know how this is going and maybe ill be able to come into town and help ya work on it!

[keison2000]

[I am definitely going to watch this thread. I plan on doing a 1mz swap in the near future myself..... Later on adding a monster turbo............

[stephen_lee]

uploading pics now!

[97celiman]

i promise i wont threadjack but i have some questions...

seems like a lot of rwd people (i think of 350/70z in particular-also ppl who actually track their car) going with a supercharger on these big v-6s rather than a turbo or tt setup...
my question is why? the rwd can actually handle the power of a big turbo...
is this just because of a consistent powerband the s/c offers?

yet seems like a lot of fwd people choose a turbo set up...

why did you choose a turbo over s/c build? seems like a supercharger would give you the 250ish (rounding) hp you would need and subsequent torque, and you wouldnt have to worry about traction issues since it is fwd...
also less plumbing and reliability

basically i see rwd big motor cars s/c and 4 banger fwd turboing- in my mind it would be reversed.
my question again, is why?
can anyone enlighten?

[stephen_lee]

i believe its about room/piping in the engine bay. fwd usually has more room than rwd. i chose turbo because it offeres more power than just a s/c. its more personal preferences than anything

[CelicaST_CALI]

this should be an awesome thread...cant wait

[stephen_lee]

i cant even wait lol..


so i believe i need:
all ST205 mounts
ST205 shift cables
camry inner axles
st185 outter axles
spacers for axles
and a custom mount/adaptor plate on passenger side?

am i missing anything?

[hellsyphon]

Good luck with the swap. I look forward to the results! Btw, I like how it has a giant smile lol.

[stephen_lee]

Good luck with the swap. I look forward to the results! Btw, I like how it has a giant smile lol.

haha. It's cause she's so happy to have a worthy motor in her!

[stephen_lee]

added pics and "shopping list"

[cjh4l22]

oh i might be able to help you with your shopping list. i have stock gt4 shift cables and a gt4 passenger motor mount (left side if you're looking at the car)
great motor choice BTW, i did my hw too and ppl seem to love it

[stephen_lee]

i'll be making some purchases soon

[stephen_lee]

Bought a few items off my list! took pics of donor car. will upload later

[Ted95]

any pics of the doner? lol

[stephen_lee]

yup! theyre on the first post!

any pics of the doner? lol

[Ted95]

lol sweet deal... was those pics always there? idk how i missed that haha

yup! theyre on the first post!

any pics of the doner? lol

[stephen_lee]

nahh i just added them

lol sweet deal... was those pics always there? idk how i missed that haha

yup! theyre on the first post!

any pics of the doner? lol

[Ted95]

lol ok juss makin sure i wasnt goin crazy haha.. things gunna b sick tho good luck with it ill b watchin this thread

nahh i just added them

lol sweet deal... was those pics always there? idk how i missed that haha

yup! theyre on the first post!

any pics of the doner? lol

[stephen_lee]

5sfe is pulled! pics later

[stephen_lee]

added more updates/pics to the 1st post.
interior work and auto to manual conversion

[stephen_lee]

picked up some eibach springs - $175.

[EKAn]

coming along nicely, pics!

[stephen_lee]

i know im going to get flamed for adding 'dead weight' to my project car, but i appreciate being able to talk on the highway lol. 90-95% of the sheet metal is covered w/ the foil/foam insulation and im adding the carpet padding to the panels this week after work. i have found the BEST adhesive for this is actually rubber cement. you only have to cover the sheet metal if ur laying down the foil/foam. but u have to cover both surfaces (sheet metal/plastics AND carpet padding) when you're laying down the padding. I assume i added between 25-40LBS to the car with all this insulation, and spent ~$150. Totally worth it IMO.

[stephen_lee]

Bought a set of SS brake lines today!

[eengineer]

sweet project!

eventhough i don't own a celica but i share the same love for the 3VZ
i have a 5S-Fe camry /w auto tranny and swapped it out for a 3VZ-FE with 5speed
gotta love the torque.
i'm in process of supercharging it with the 1MZFE supercharger...it's much easier since it's a bolt on with minor custom mods.

turboing 3VZ would be great as well but make sure u size it correctly
a recommended turbo would be a Garette T3/T04E 57 Trim w/ .82 AR

[stephen_lee]

great info! thanks, cause i have no idea on how to size a turbo.. and i had already been reccomended a similar sized turbo

sweet project!

eventhough i don't own a celica but i share the same love for the 3VZ
i have a 5S-Fe camry /w auto tranny and swapped it out for a 3VZ-FE with 5speed
gotta love the torque.
i'm in process of supercharging it with the 1MZFE supercharger...it's much easier since it's a bolt on with minor custom mods.

turboing 3VZ would be great as well but make sure u size it correctly
a recommended turbo would be a Garette T3/T04E 57 Trim w/ .82 AR

[stephen_lee]

added a link to the swaps costs spreadsheet (ALSO HERE)

[stephen_lee]

picked up an AEM wideband for $155

picked up an AEM wideband for $155

[stephen_lee]

pulling lexus motor tonight/tomorrow. update monday.

[stephen_lee]

V6 was yankked in about 4hrs yesterday.

[richee3]

Good progress. This swap should be done in no time. Looks like the Houston crew is catching up with the NE Coast guys.

[stephen_lee]

just bought a LSD for this beast

[stephen_lee]

pulled the wiring harness off, and the tranny off. took the trans to the car wash and cleaned it up. found a large crack in the transmission case so i'll have to rebuild/replace and hope it works fine!

[D-Man]

I'm comming out soon! Rather i gotta steal the SC1 or not! Hahahah!!

[stephen_lee]

tore tranny apart and ordered repair parts. cost me just under $300 to repair my trans and replace the syncronizers (i get a good discount )

and my LSD came in!

[Ted95]

tore tranny apart and ordered repair parts. cost me just under $300 to repair my trans and replace the syncronizers (i get a good discount )

and my LSD came in!

sweeeeeeeettt!

[stephen_lee]

pulled tranny apart, cleaned her up. polished and cleared the case... this thing has a pressurized lube system... pump and all.

[Johnnyny]

pulled tranny apart, cleaned her up. polished and cleared the case... this thing has a pressurized lube system... pump and all.

nice!

[stephen_lee]

any recommendations on where to buy custom pistons and rods?

[RockyMountainCel...]

To the OP, I know a guy who has SEVERAL of those Lexus models sitting on his property doing nothing because he is too lazy to fix them properly and sell them..........1st if you need any parts PM me and I'm sure I could inquire about a few. 2nd, is this a worth while swap? I will 100% consider this if I have access to all the right parts and a few ppl to help me. Especially since I've got access to 4+ Lexus cars that I do believe have the right engine for this swap.

[stephen_lee]

v6 is a GREAT swap. ask the 2.5 of us on this site ( K-ESD, snapshotgt, myself) the vz block is good for turbo. if you want to stay NA i's go with the 3mz/1mz. IMO stock v6 against a stock gen 2 3s will be a damn close race, with v6 probably taking the lead on all but straightshot races (v6 has more power at the full rpm range, and no boost lag)

but parts? no. maybe an extra v6 block lol

[RockyMountainCel...]

v6 is a GREAT swap. ask the 2.5 of us on this site ( K-ESD, snapshotgt, myself) the vz block is good for turbo. if you want to stay NA i's go with the 3mz/1mz. IMO stock v6 against a stock gen 2 3s will be a damn close race, with v6 probably taking the lead on all but straightshot races (v6 has more power at the full rpm range, and no boost lag)

but parts? no. maybe an extra v6 block lol

lol i might be able to arrange that extra v6 block he has like 4 or 5 of them just sittin there.

[cjh4l22]

v6 is a GREAT swap. ask the 2.5 of us on this site ( K-ESD, snapshotgt, myself) the vz block is good for turbo. if you want to stay NA i's go with the 3mz/1mz. IMO stock v6 against a stock gen 2 3s will be a damn close race, with v6 probably taking the lead on all but straightshot races (v6 has more power at the full rpm range, and no boost lag)

but parts? no. maybe an extra v6 block lol

lol i might be able to arrange that extra v6 block he has like 4 or 5 of them just sittin there.

hey man I might be interested in one of those blocks...

[stephen_lee]

Saving $$$$ for JE custom forged pistons (cost 900-1200)

[stephen_lee]

copy & paste...

"The 3vz-fe itself is *highly* resistant to detonation. Many times more than a 3vz-e, 1mz-fe, or 5vz-fe is. The most resistant to detonation of any of the v6's. I have personally run 22* of maximum advance over 6000rpm with my SMT-6 with no pinging. On Chevron 87.
Another ported & polished 3vz-fe went to a drag strip to test ignition timing. A base timing of 20* (stock is 10* universal to all v6's/normal Toyota engines) produced no pinging, but poor performance. On 87 octane.

The 3vz-fe has the strongest stock rods used on any v6. They are massive.
Huge... Iron... Block... We don't need sleeves, we don't need block work to lay down 600whp. It's too similar in construction to a 3000GT's v6 not to say maybe even 900bhp+.
Other than the cast pistons, the 3vz-fe is stronger part for part than any other v6. It has yet to be seen if the biggest stock 3vz-fe can take down the biggest stock 5vz-fe. Why?

Because Neither Sean, nor I have set out to do it yet.

Like oil? 3vz-fe's don't. Yes, even 3psi at a cold idle is in spec... If you're not on the gas, they don't have a ton of oil pressure. This is great for turbo life.
FYI Camry 3vz-fe's have no oil pressure sensor installed while ES 300/Windom's do.
As long as the red light of death is off - you don't have an oil problem, no matter HOW bright the yellow low oil level light is! (That's an inside joke. I killed my OLS when I installed my turbo oil return somehow.)

3vz-fe redlines a 6850rpm, and the fuel cut is at 7100rpm.
Toyota RPM gauges read very, very slow I have logged my engine at 7400rpm on my SMT6... A 5vz-fe would come apart at that rpm without cams, valve springs & other work. Not us. (We have very diminishing power on stock cams after 6000rpm, however it's best to shift at 6500-6900rpm to stay in powerband)

We don't waste money on cams... Our engine has the biggest powerband (except maybe a 5vz-fe) under 3000rpm. We have OVER 100whp at 2000rpm. Yes... That's right... Only a 3vz-fe has the power to spin tires on the Camry platform!

We get HUGE gains from head porting!!!
Seam McElligott got 30-35bhp.
I did my MYSELF and got 25-30.
A Camry owner had his done and got 25, possibly 30.
What do cams do on a 3vz-fe? Turn it into a 1mz-fe! <BLAH!> A cammed 3vz-fe made 220bhp on an MR2 with zero powerband.
We make 220bhp off P&P light N/A tuning, & a y-pipe... And still have the massive low rpm powerband.

The fully built N/A 3vz-e's made 320bhp.
A fully built N/A 3vz-fe should then make 370bhp. Hey... If two extra valves are good for 50bhps tock, they should be worth it built too!

The downside is that the 3vz-fe has stock cast pistons. Not a problem when you run the correct amount of fuel, however 1mz-fe's ahve cast pistons WITH a coating. They are minutely stronger (I say minutely because no 3vz-fe has hurt it's bottom end, stock 1mz-fe's have melted rings & pistons by running slightly lean at lower power levels than have been achieved by 3vz-fe's)

Despite what anyone says, the 5vz-fe has one important edge. Displacement... 11.7% displacement advantage will ALWAYS equal an 11.7% power advantage when comparing the same basic setup.
If you have money, this doesn't matter. A source once had a machinist calculate how far you could possibly stroke a 3vz-fe. 3.7L. The supposed kit that was coming from that was going to cost $4000+, and stroke to 3.5-3.6L.

I've worked on them all. Had a hand in one turbo 3vz-e, then turboed another from scratch. Turboed mine a few different odd ways so far. Rebuilt my 3vz-fe more times than you will ever want to know. Worked with 1mz-fe's & worked on 5vz-fe's.

3vz-fe JDM's have no EGR. US's can be throw away & blocked off. 1mz-fe1's? Nopers!
3vz-fe's have EVAP, but don't care if you throw it away. 1mz-fe's? Nope!
3vz-fe loose their 5-10bhp from carbon over a few years. 1mz-fe1's have HORRIBLY over used EGR systems. What a 3vz-fe builds up over a few years, a 1mz-fe1 builds up in 9 months. Guess what, that new 1mz-fe you bought? if the entire intake track hasn't been cleaned in the last 9-12 months, you can subtract 10bhp.

3vz-fe's are non-interference. 1mz-fe1's are also, 1mz-fe2's are not.
My 2 favorite demonstration pictures of all time.
Don't think that's important? I destroyed my first OEM timing belt doing a top speed run when I got to 143mph, but still made it home."

[cjh4l22]

read this toooo. completely agree. awesomeness!!

they forgot to mention how cheap those damn things are. longblock for less than 1k...

This post has been edited by cjh4l22: Sep 15, 2010 - 11:50 PM

[stephen_lee]

I'm really interested in doing a 3mzfe swap, or 3vzfe if I plan to go turbo. I have a few questions for you. What's the fabrication needed for this to fit in the celica bay ( I have a gt, mounts, etc)? Also with the 3vzfe, is there actually room for a turbo setup? And then what about aftermarket support, (engine internals. Pistons, crankshaft, valve train)? Let me know; this is a project I'm really excited about, and I hope to become what I think may either be 6gc's 4th or 5th v6 swapper!

you got the motor choices corect as far as n/a or turbo. you have a gt, and a manual. now you have pretty much 2 tranny choices. your stock s54, or any E series tranny. the E series will be stronger, but will require ST205 front, rear, and driver side mounds, in addition to ST205 shift cables. if you stick to the S54(basically the cheap/easy way out, if your on a budget id go this way, get the swap grimlins worked out, then swap for an E series) its a bolt up affair. with both tranny choices you will have to fab a passenger side mount (easy, or buy one fron fourveesix at mr2oc i believe). there is room for a turbo with a 3vz, but the swap and mounting of everything over the tranny/exhuast piping will need to be VERY carefully planned out. aftermarket support is pretty limited for all the V6s, only real part i can think of is a lightweight flywheel from fidanza. 3vz heads were designed by yamaha and are good (valvetrain wise) to 7500 rpm. pistons, rods and such will need to be custom. my set of custom pistons from wiseco cost 900 (150 each). i should be 6GCs 3rd V6. I'd love to see more!

[DEATH]

Man I hate this waiting for $$$/Parts portion of the swap process. I can't wait to get this thing running nice and stock smooth in the Celica - then on to the Turbo and all the real fun
BTW - If you install any other cluch into this thing than an ACT I will b!tchslap you

This post has been edited by DEATH: Sep 30, 2010 - 11:05 AM

[stephen_lee]

i may buy axles soon. tranny parts are all ordered and in..

[richee3]

Hurry up and swap!

[stephen_lee]

man.. i want it now! but funds are slow... but oh? i got a 400/mo raise and 300/mo is going into my car account! slightly faster progress.

[Ted95]

man.. i want it now! but funds are slow... but oh? i got a 400/mo raise and 300/mo is going into my car account! slightly faster progress.

same goes for my swap bro. im on hold due to lack of money lol, savin up some more paychecks so i can order my Tweak clutch, hurry up and get ur funds so we can see this bro!!! 3VZ-FTE is gunna be sickkk!

[EKAn]

Hurry up and swap!

x2 i want to see this thing rip it up

[EKAn]

I saw this pic on line and it reminded me of this thread even though this is a 1MZ

Good luck man

This post has been edited by EKAn: Jan 26, 2011 - 12:52 AM

[DEATH]

I saw this pic on line and it reminded me of this thread even though this is a 1MZ-FE

Good luck man

Damn that's sexy - twins FTW

[Johnnyny]

cant go wrong with twins!

[stephen_lee]

twins..

[DEATH]

proves your downpipe routing doesn't it?

[stephen_lee]

yea, im thinking something a little different (better flow). i hope it works. but we do know it is possible now.

[stephen_lee]

[cjh4l22]

almost 2 months, want an update! lol

[stephen_lee]

waiting on cash for motor rebuild. bought a house so extra money was temp diverted, but i got my priorities straight again, lol

[cjh4l22]

waiting on cash for motor rebuild. bought a house so extra money was temp diverted, but i got my priorities straight again, lol

well thank jeebus for that. i am very intersted in this swap because i might go a couple steps further but the steps your taking are critical

[presure2]

good stuff man, cant wait to see more progress!
once it gets moving, ill move this into the FI forum, hehe

[Smaay]

Stephen why 3VZ over 5VZ...what do you know about the 5VZ? im looking for one

[stephen_lee]

Ordering engine mounts and/or engine management soon!

[stephen_lee]

the 5vz has more torque, but thats about it. the 3vz is mechanically stronger, and will flow better at higher RPMs (4500+)

the 3vz redlines the same rpm as my 7a, and HIGHER than 96+ 7As (7200 rpm)

with the build im hoping to bump it up to 7500

[Smaay]

yeah its more torquey, but what makes the 3VZ flow more

[delusionz]

i dont understand the fascination with st205 shifter cables?

the shifter cables in my st205 broke and i replaced them with identical shifter cables from an st202, so i'm sure theres no difference with your st204 shifter cables?

[stephen_lee]

E series transmissions mount the cables diff than the S series. st202 uses an e series too iirc.

the 5vz was meant for a low revving truck, while the 3vz was designed for a car, with higher rpm use in mind

btw all mounts i need have been bought!

[delusionz]

ST202 uses an S54 gearbox, ST205 uses an E154F gearbox. Both use identical shifter cables.

[nwizzle]

Can you explain a little about how direct the swap to the Celi is? I read all the posts so far and its very interesting, but I don't know foreign as well as American made. And say I want to drop this in mine as a daily to begin with without any major mods, mostly just want a bigger stock engine til after college and want to replace the 5s anyways, how feasable money and time wise with good transmission and everything? Just tryin to plan for the future (:

[stephen_lee]

depends on what you you want to go. if you want/have a manual already its bolt on, minus the passenger mount and carrier bearing. if you have/want auto, it's going to be a little more involved

if you want bolt on mods (exhuast, intake etc) your best bet would be a 1mz, 3mz.

if you want forced induction (turbo, nitrous) 3vz would be better

an overall good motor for daily would be a late model 1mz with vvti

[presure2]

ST202 uses an S54 gearbox, ST205 uses an E154F gearbox. Both use identical shifter cables.

on the usa celicas, the s54 uses larger shifter cable ends than the 205 cables.
the beams cables i have in the garage from steff and dustins swap have the smaller cable ends, like the 205 ones.

[Smaay]

ok so the over all length of the cables is not an issue, just how they are monted to the tranny? well thats not an issue, just fab up a new mount so you can use your 204 cables

[presure2]

no, the whole end part of the cable is diffrent.

its been documented and is in the FI stickys, in jeffs swap thread:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28825

about 1/4 of the way down the page.

[nwizzle]

Ah, looked up the 1mz and that sounds about perfect. I do have a manual. I'm mostly looking for a v6 to do exhaust, intake, minor head work on myself after NADC. Definately don't need a turbo at my age and driving record lol

Much appreciated. I'll have my eye on this thread for sure

[stephen_lee]

got the ST205 mounts in. now i can start mounting this up

[Keiri]

got the ST205 mounts in. now i can start mounting this up

I will be watching your progress Stephen. Good on ya mate!

[keison2000]

So what did you do as far as axles go.

[stephen_lee]

im using the stock lexus inners as they will mount to the carrier bearing bracket properly, but machining them for LSD, using 91 camry v6 outters.

making a sppacer as needed, will update that info when i get to it

[cjh4l22]

im using the stock lexus inners as they will mount to the carrier bearing bracket properly, but machining them for LSD, using 91 camry v6 outters.

making a sppacer as needed, will update that info when i get to it

this thread is the ****. please keep us updated. idk about everyone else but I am veryyy interested in how Complicated this is in comparison to a 3s. gl dude

[stephen_lee]

we should move this to projects

[stephen_lee]

really no different. use an s54, make a PS mount, send wiring to tweek, thats the only thing diff. maybe even easier since less stuff to deal w/ (intercooler, turbo, piping etc)

[richee3]

Any recent pictures of the project?

[stephen_lee]

If swapping a 3vz into an st instead of a GT what would be differant? Still need the same motor mounts?


Thanks again for helping me out,


lazurus

the difference in the mounting is the passenger side mount. which needs to be custom anyway so... no big deal there. drill and tap the holes that are already on the pass side frame rail. but you cannot use an ST tranny. ask these in my progress thread, so info is avail to all.

[richee3]

Any updates?

[stephen_lee]

Ready to drop the motor in minus bolting the manifolds on!

[95CelicaST]

tittywop.


I mean, it's going to all look similar to mine (sans turbo), but I demand pictures.

[stephen_lee]

except where it is lol. urs is in an MR2. which version of the 1mz do u have? they vary a lot in power

[95CelicaST]

1st rev. 1994 ES300.

[stephen_lee]

admire

[yungazzdriver]

wow nice.....what color is that?
edit** just googled it and renissance red? supra red I guess?

This post has been edited by yungazzdriver: Apr 25, 2011 - 3:56 PM

[Keiri]

3L2 :Renaissance Red.

I approve Stephen.