MGCustoms 3rd Gen Motor Swap Options

[MGCustoms325]

Well I guess the time has come to swap a 3rd gen into my car.

I originally had plans of swapping in my built 2nd gen into the car and converting it to a drag/show car but those plans went out the window.

After reading others swap threads and seeing the potential the 3rd gen has in stock form I was blown away to say the least.

The car will be my daily driver and thus will be keeping it as close to stock while still adding a few supporting mods to maintain a smile on my face on my 25 mile commute to and from work. I will be making this as more of a keepsake for myself so it will be full of pictures and whatnot. Manny (presure2) has a wonderful build thread on his 3rd gen so I won't be adding any redundant information he has already stated.

I want to thank everyone on this forum that has ever taken the time to either answer one of my questions or has posted any pertinent information on this site. I also want to thank Art (lagos) for extending the wonderful discount he has on OEM parts to our community and for putting up with my barrage of questions and requests for parts. You're a stand up guy, and for that I commend you.

Now, On To The Pics! (I Took The Pictures Of The OEM Parts In A Way To Make Reading The Part # Easy)

First And Foremost, The Engine:


Gasket Set:






Oil Filters, Oil Pump Gasket, Sealant & Thermostat:


Distributor Cap, Rotor, And Gasket:


Timing Belt:


Spark Plug Wire Set:


Water Pump:


HFH & HFHOE:


TRD Quickshifter:






This post has been edited by MGCustoms325: Sep 3, 2010 - 11:49 PM

[Johnnyny]

what are your powergoals?

[MGCustoms325]

what are your powergoals?

Between 300 And 350 whp. More Than Attainable With The Stock 3rd Gen. I will be purchasing a Mine's tuned ecu to get some slightly more aggresively tuned maps and to remove speed limiter and raise cutoff to 7500 rpm. Will also be making a custom 3" exhaust with 3" downpipe, converting from the w2a to a FMIC and replacing the 3rd gen intake manifold (center feed) with a 4th gen manifold (side feed) to further reduce heat soak.

This post has been edited by MGCustoms325: Aug 8, 2010 - 12:26 AM

[Rusty]

wondering if you've thought about a LINK plug and play ECU? Though I suppose not many tuners are using LINK ECU's over in the USA?

This post has been edited by Rusty: Aug 8, 2010 - 12:35 AM

[Johnnyny]

what are your powergoals?

Between 300 And 350 whp. More Than Attainable With The Stock 3rd Gen. I will be purchasing a Mine's tuned ecu to get some slightly more aggresively tuned maps and to remove speed limiter and raise cutoff to 7500 rpm. Will also be making a custom 3" exhaust with 3" downpipe, converting from the w2a to a FMIC and replacing the 3rd gen intake manifold (center feed) with a 4th gen manifold (side feed) to further reduce heat soak.

why front mount stock can easily handle ur goals ?

[MGCustoms325]

wondering if you've thought about a LINK plug and play ECU? Though I suppose not many tuners are using LINK ECU's over in the USA?

I actually hadnt looked into that. Reason being that the Mine's ecu is plug and play. No need to pay for a tuner or dyno time and it will make the car a little funner to drive without any huge out of pocket investments. I will not be taking the car to the strip or anything of that nature so I really dont care about squeezing every last hp I can get out of the car. Thanks for the suggestion though!

what are your powergoals?

Between 300 And 350 whp. More Than Attainable With The Stock 3rd Gen. I will be purchasing a Mine's tuned ecu to get some slightly more aggresively tuned maps and to remove speed limiter and raise cutoff to 7500 rpm. Will also be making a custom 3" exhaust with 3" downpipe, converting from the w2a to a FMIC and replacing the 3rd gen intake manifold (center feed) with a 4th gen manifold (side feed) to further reduce heat soak.

why front mount stock can easily handle ur goals ?

I personally like the look of the FMIC. I think it adds a slightly sportier appearance to the car and also combats heat soak a bit better than a w2a IC IMO. Just a personal preference is all.

[MGCustoms325]

Most up to date progress: Sent out wiring harness to Dr. Tweak. I have also succesfully completed the fwd lsd e-153 conversion on my 93+ mr2 tranny. Just have to button a few things up on the tranny, clean it, paint it and the tranny is done.

[pipes]

did u buy ur hoses from hell from a dealer? if so can i get the updated part numbers?

[presure2]

Most up to date progress: Sent out wiring harness to Dr. Tweak. I have also succesfully completed the fwd lsd e-153 conversion on my 93+ mr2 tranny. Just have to button a few things up on the tranny, clean it, paint it and the tranny is done.

nice man, congrats on doing the swap.
outta curiosity, is tweak extending the harness for ya? and whats he charging for the 3rd gen wiring?

piper, when you click on the pic, it takes you to a full size version where you can read the pt#.

16282-88480
16281-88461

[pipes]

Most up to date progress: Sent out wiring harness to Dr. Tweak. I have also succesfully completed the fwd lsd e-153 conversion on my 93+ mr2 tranny. Just have to button a few things up on the tranny, clean it, paint it and the tranny is done.

nice man, congrats on doing the swap.
outta curiosity, is tweak extending the harness for ya? and whats he charging for the 3rd gen wiring?

piper, when you click on the pic, it takes you to a full size version where you can read the pt#.

16282-88480
16281-88461

lol silly me

[MGCustoms325]

Most up to date progress: Sent out wiring harness to Dr. Tweak. I have also succesfully completed the fwd lsd e-153 conversion on my 93+ mr2 tranny. Just have to button a few things up on the tranny, clean it, paint it and the tranny is done.

nice man, congrats on doing the swap.
outta curiosity, is tweak extending the harness for ya? and whats he charging for the 3rd gen wiring?

piper, when you click on the pic, it takes you to a full size version where you can read the pt#.

16282-88480
16281-88461

Thanks Manny. Yes he is. I just didn't want to take a risk on something so tedious and temperamental. He quoted me 450 when I spoke to him on the phone.

Most up to date progress: Sent out wiring harness to Dr. Tweak. I have also succesfully completed the fwd lsd e-153 conversion on my 93+ mr2 tranny. Just have to button a few things up on the tranny, clean it, paint it and the tranny is done.

nice man, congrats on doing the swap.
outta curiosity, is tweak extending the harness for ya? and whats he charging for the 3rd gen wiring?

piper, when you click on the pic, it takes you to a full size version where you can read the pt#.

16282-88480
16281-88461

lol silly me

I actually got both hfh from Josh at chico race works because they aren't available to US dealers. He charged 50 for both which I thought was pretty fair and he keeps them in stock so no crazy wait. I also got the water pump from him.

This post has been edited by MGCustoms325: Aug 8, 2010 - 7:11 AM

[presure2]

yea, the extending it part of it definetly is tedious, no doubt.
he also uses all factory style crimps, ect, which is nice for peice of mind, no worries about crappy solder joints.
i imagine you got an engine set without the fuelpump and intercooler relay box?
that adds a handfull of wires to the mix as well.
some may complain that 450 is too much, but knowing what i know now (from doing my own) , its a fair price for the labor involved, especially if it goes into the stock boot (which it will) and is plug and play (which it will be).
tweak knows his stuff, so if your not 100% sure you know what your doing, its better to pay someone who does when it comes to the wiring for your motor. diagnosing and fixing harness issues later down the road totally blows.
the last pics of a harness i saw from him looked 100% OEM.

::edit::
btw, dont let my build thread stop you from going into detail in your thread man.
the more points of info we have, the better off we all are, and the more we all learn, which is the whole point of 6gc.
lots of pics, lots of info, dooooo ittttt...

::edit #2::
if your looking for 300-350whp, why not take the money your gonna spend on the mines ecu, and buy a WI kit, and an active map clamp like jim and dustin did.
both made ~+-330whp @ 21psi, and jim made like 340+ on a partial run @ ~24psi.
you can use any toggle switch to toggle the speed limiter on and off as needed, you just splice into the speed sensor wire for the ecu.

[MGCustoms325]

yea, the extending it part of it definetly is tedious, no doubt.
he also uses all factory style crimps, ect, which is nice for peice of mind, no worries about crappy solder joints.
i imagine you got an engine set without the fuelpump and intercooler relay box?
that adds a handfull of wires to the mix as well.
some may complain that 450 is too much, but knowing what i know now (from doing my own) , its a fair price for the labor involved, especially if it goes into the stock boot (which it will) and is plug and play (which it will be).
tweak knows his stuff, so if your not 100% sure you know what your doing, its better to pay someone who does when it comes to the wiring for your motor. diagnosing and fixing harness issues later down the road totally blows.
the last pics of a harness i saw from him looked 100% OEM.

::edit::
btw, dont let my build thread stop you from going into detail in your thread man.
the more points of info we have, the better off we all are, and the more we all learn, which is the whole point of 6gc.
lots of pics, lots of info, dooooo ittttt...

LOL. Ok sounds good. I'll post everything I can. As for the harness, I agree 100%. that way in the unlikely event I have a wiring issue, he warranties the work and he will fix it. I can handle everything else I just dont have the patience or time to do it like I know he will. I've seen too many horror stories on here with wiring issues and I just don't want to deal with that headache. I know I'm going to have some hiccups, I just want to prevent the ones in my control.

[MGCustoms325]

::edit #2::
if your looking for 300-350whp, why not take the money your gonna spend on the mines ecu, and buy a WI kit, and an active map clamp like jim and dustin did.
both made ~+-330whp @ 21psi, and jim made like 340+ on a partial run @ ~24psi.
you can use any toggle switch to toggle the speed limiter on and off as needed, you just splice into the speed sensor wire for the ecu.

I actually didn't know about the toggle switch. Thanks for that heads up. I know I ran the idea of WI across my mechanic but he shot it down rather quickly. I will run the idea by him again and show him both jim and dustins results.

[presure2]

yea, totally understandable man.
there are always hiccups in any project, its the nature of the beast.
its how you pull thru the hiccups that really matters!
cant wait to see more, good luck!

[_Jim_]

Tweak does VERY nice work, and I would suggest him to anyone. In fact, I have him doing a harness for me right now for my newest project.

If you go back and read, all the threads of people who have swapped....if they walked away from the swap, quit, or got stuck...99% of the time it was because of wiring gremlins. if you are unsure about the wiring and can swing the extra couple bucks to have it professionally done, I would highly recommend it. I bet if you talked to Tweak over at Phoenix Tunning, they can do a GEN3 harness for even cheaper then 450 if you dont have them extend the harness, and you cut a new whole in your fire wall to come threw. The most time consuming part of the harness for the guys over at Phoenix Tunning is extending the harness, especially on a GEN3 where there isnt much "actual wiring" needed to be done to get it to work on your 6GC.

GL with the swap man, now that you have the harness out of the way, the swap will be very straight forward for you. Looking forward to the pics.

[MGCustoms325]

Tweak does VERY nice work, and I would suggest him to anyone. In fact, I have him doing a harness for me right now for my newest project.

If you go back and read, all the threads of people who have swapped....if they walked away from the swap, quit, or got stuck...99% of the time it was because of wiring gremlins. if you are unsure about the wiring and can swing the extra couple bucks to have it professionally done, I would highly recommend it. I bet if you talked to Tweak over at Phoenix Tunning, they can do a GEN3 harness for even cheaper then 450 if you dont have them extend the harness, and you cut a new whole in your fire wall to come threw. The most time consuming part of the harness for the guys over at Phoenix Tunning is extending the harness, especially on a GEN3 where there isnt much "actual wiring" needed to be done to get it to work on your 6GC.

GL with the swap man, now that you have the harness out of the way, the swap will be very straight forward for you. Looking forward to the pics.

Thanks Jim. Absolutely. I would just prefer to pay the money to get it entended and whatnot so that it fits like factory. I dont want to have to cut any additional holes in the firewall.

I was actually talking to Manny the other day and my only regret about this motor was that I didnt buy it from you. Although I got a good deal and was able to pick it up locally, I didn't get everything that I am sure I would've gotten with you due to the fact that you actually know whats involved in these swaps and actually own a celica. I am now stuck having to source a few miscellaneous parts that I am sure you would've included. On that note, If you have any 93+ inner lsd hubs from an mr2 let me know and I am also looking for a caldina intake manifold with throttle body. PM me pricing when you can.

I will definately take lots of pictures and an update to my plans, I will in fact be running a devilsown kit.

[MGCustoms325]

A few more goodies came in and I figured I would post them up.

Autometer Cobalt Tachometer


Power Steering Hose


PS Banjo Bolt & Gasket


Front Motor Mount


Transmission Mount

[lagos]

Look at those great looking OEM parts !

[MGCustoms325]

Look at those great looking OEM parts !

LOL. Yup. All thanks to you of course! BTW I am also going to need the front engine bracket. Let me know what it is gonna run me when you get a chance. Thanks again.

[lagos]

1231174180 $25.42 plus 8.50 shipping

[presure2]

I will in fact be running a devilsown kit.

good stuff man.
looking good so far, keep it up!

[DEATH]

diagnosing and fixing harness issues later down the road totally blows.
the last pics of a harness i saw from him looked 100% OEM.

there are always hiccups in any project, its the nature of the beast.

TRUTH!!!!!
This was my nightmare for the first 2 years of owning a swapped car. 90% of the issues I had to deal with were related to a terrible wiring harness extension job. However, you are in good hands with Tweak - he knows his $hit man
Good luck with you swap bro and welcome to the 3S swapped club!

This post has been edited by DEATH: Aug 27, 2010 - 9:07 AM

[MGCustoms325]

diagnosing and fixing harness issues later down the road totally blows.
the last pics of a harness i saw from him looked 100% OEM.

there are always hiccups in any project, its the nature of the beast.

TRUTH!!!!!
This was my nightmare for the first 2 years of owning a swapped car. 90% of the issues I had to deal with were related to a terrible wiring harness extension job. However, you are in good hands with Tweak - he knows his $hit man
Good luck with you swap bro and welcome to the 3S swapped club!

Thanks Man. Yeah I can't wait to start driving that bad boy daily. It will sure beat driving my n/a mr2 without a/c lol

[MGCustoms325]

Alright. As the days pass I keep getting closer and closer. I am now at the point where I need to decide what clutch I want to go with and ultimately buy it. What do the swap veterans recommend for power goals in the 350 to 400 whp range. I have read alot of horror stories about SPEC and am kind of leaning towards ACT but will listen to others opinions and experiences. BTW I already have and will be running a Fidanza flywheel. Thanks!

[freddy121389]

you may want to look at the mr2 website for help at building your engine as well

[Punch]

@ MGCustoms325 i got a friend (kiko eng) down here he bulit a 3rd gen 610hp.... in a mr-2 ... if u like i can set somthing up so we can all talk.... he kno his stuff...

This post has been edited by Punch: Sep 6, 2010 - 3:37 PM

[MGCustoms325]

@ MGCustoms325 i got a friend (kiko eng) down here he bulid a 3rd gen 610hp.... in a mr-2 ... if u like i can set so we can all talk.... he kno his stuff...

Thanks Punch. I already have a mechanic who is doing all the work. I'm just gonna keep it stock with methanol injection. I am just looking for suggestions on what clutch to run at this point.

[DEATH]

Alright. As the days pass I keep getting closer and closer. I am now at the point where I need to decide what clutch I want to go with and ultimately buy it. What do the swap veterans recommend for power goals in the 350 to 400 whp range. I have read alot of horror stories about SPEC and am kind of leaning towards ACT but will listen to others opinions and experiences. BTW I already have and will be running a Fidanza flywheel. Thanks!

ACT is the ONLY name to trust - anything else and your just doing it halfa$$

[MGCustoms325]

Alright. As the days pass I keep getting closer and closer. I am now at the point where I need to decide what clutch I want to go with and ultimately buy it. What do the swap veterans recommend for power goals in the 350 to 400 whp range. I have read alot of horror stories about SPEC and am kind of leaning towards ACT but will listen to others opinions and experiences. BTW I already have and will be running a Fidanza flywheel. Thanks!

ACT is the ONLY name to trust - anything else and your just doing it halfa$$

Thanks for the reply man. Are you currently running one? Which one did you go with? I am debating whether to go with the Tm1-hdmm or the Tm1-hdg6. As I stated previously this car will be my daily driver.

[Culpable04]

I have an ACT heavy duty pressure plate, F1 racing stage 3 sprung disc and chromology lightweight flywheel.

hmm, the pressure plate is something you would need to get used to for daily driving, I find myself cursing at myself everytime I get into traffic jams on the parkway ( ~ 2hrs ) other than than, once the clutch is broken in is very driveable. for unwatend reasons I had to remove my trans to replace my rear main seal, so I inspected the clutch disc since is a " cheap ebay brand " and it looked just like the day I installed it,

that whole setup including the flywheel cost me just under US$500.00 so it was a great buy, and just like me there are quite a few mermbers running this clutch on the forums and over Mr2oc with great reviews so far.

someone on the site has had their for over 2 years now.

[Punch]

@ MGCustoms325 love to see the set up & share so info .....pm me....

[presure2]

im currently running a competition clutch (stage 4) that we got thru drtweak.
pedal feel is compareable to the ACT HD pressure plate, which i had in the car before this one, its on the heavy side IMO, and with a 6 puck disk, its very grabby, and dont really liked to be slipped much.
overall, its very compareable to the 6 puck ACT setup, and its ~100$ cheaper than the ACT.
my cousin got a clutchmasters stage 4 unsprung, its not installed yet, but from what i've read, the pedal feel is supossed to be lighter than the ACT, with the same amount of holding power. (400+ftlbs)

[MGCustoms325]

Thanks for the reply Manny. I think I am going to end up running the ACT TM1-HDR6 kit. From what I have read and gathered from a few people that do mr2 builds, aside from the quicker engagement it is very streetable and will still be able to handle my power and will give me some room to grow on it. Will be going to the shop tomorrow night and getting some work done so I will update the thread with alot of pictures hopefully. I am still waiting on my caldina intake manifold and my berk downpipe in the mail. Stay tuned...

BTW, I found the clutch kit for $366.98...

This post has been edited by MGCustoms325: Sep 13, 2010 - 10:20 PM

[MGCustoms325]

Some more parts came in:

Caldina Intake Manifold With Ported TB


Radiator Supports


GT Throttle Cable


Power Steering Reservoir Hose

[MGCustoms325]

Made some progress on the motor.

We removed the timing belt.



Removed the water pump. You will notice that the original pump had plastic fins and the replacement has metal fins.





Area all smoothed to ensure a good seal for the water pump.



Here it is almost installed.



Here it is installed and my mechanic is reinstalling the ac bracket.



Then we cleaned the cam seals and installed the new ones.



Here they are installed. I am still unsure whether I want to get some GSC 268 cams and AEM cam gears or to just remain stock... We shall have to just wait and see...



And finally we removed the oil pump and the oil pan.





Nekked!



Thats all for now. Will update again next week when I get back over to the shop!

This post has been edited by MGCustoms325: Sep 16, 2010 - 4:33 AM

[MGCustoms325]

Well a few more parts came in today that were holding up progress. I got:

St205 Rear Motor Mount


Oil Pump


Hydraulic Tensioner & Pulleys


And these were just 2 other things I have that I hadn’t added before.

Fidanza Flywheel


Berk 3" DP With O2 Bung


I should be receiving my ACT TM1-HDR6 clutch kit and HKS SSQV3 on Wednesday. I will be going to the shop to get the recently received parts installed tomorrow night and will possibly be cleaning the block and tranny to either paint them or leave them ready for paint on Wednesday.

I also received my wiring harness from Tweak and it is definitely even better than I expected. The guy does some amazing work. I definitely recommend that anyone undertaking this swap send the harness out to him. You won't be disappointed!

[MGCustoms325]

Well I have been slacking on posting updates. I will be going back to the shop to do some more work on Tuesday but I figured I would post up a few more goodies I got in.

Autometer Speedometer


Autometer Wideband


ACT Clutch

[99celiGT]

Hey MG where are you getting all the work done, cause im doing this same swap in my GT when i get home and the only problem i have is finding a good shop that knows what they are doing when it comes to this

[MGCustoms325]

This project is still a work in progress. I have sent out a few parts to be ceramic coated and my valve cover to get powdercoated. I will be going to the shop later today to install the timing belt and a few misc. parts including my high output alternator. I will update the thread with new pictures of how the motor sits as I have painted the block and a few other things since I last posted on here.

[OOBE]

You alive, man?

[MGCustoms325]

Well this is what my engine bay looks like (I probably should've posted this since day 1...)




Power Enterprise Timing Belt


Here is what the block looks like after being painted flat black...




Inner cam gear timing marks


And this is the timing belt and aem cam gears installed




This post has been edited by MGCustoms325: Apr 27, 2011 - 2:39 AM

[MGCustoms325]

Just got my parts back from the powdercoater. I'm very pleased how they came out! I had the valve cover painted candy blue, the exhaust manifold ceramic coated black, and the intake manifold, downpipe, and heat shield done in ceramic chrome.

[lagos]

Im loving the chrome ceramic coating!

[MGCustoms325]

Im loving the chrome ceramic coating!

Thanks lagos. How you doin anyway? Everything good?

[MGCustoms325]

I'm FINALLY getting ready to put the motor in.

Here are the parts to rebuild the GT4 Brakes.

Front:



Rear:

[MGCustoms325]

It has been a while since my last update. The motor is now in the car!

I am still waiting on a friend of mine to finish making my front brake caliper adapters. Here is how I got the car home:



LSD E153:



My CT20B With Spring Mod:




And Thanks To Cam And Tweak For The Heads Up About The 88 Celica All-Trac Outer Axle Shafts Being Correct Length:



And The CRW HD Axle Cages:



This post has been edited by MGCustoms325: Nov 6, 2012 - 1:01 AM

[DaTerrorist]

those 88 axles ull have to let me know how those turn out for u. im saving up for tweak to do my wiring but in the mean time i went to put in the axles i got and they turned out to be the wrong ones. would love to hear how the 88 all trac ones work for u. might just get a set for myself if they do

also could u give a part number and site u found those at would be helpfull also. please and thank u

This post has been edited by DaTerrorist: Nov 6, 2012 - 12:55 PM

[MGCustoms325]

those 88 axles ull have to let me know how those turn out for u. im saving up for tweak to do my wiring but in the mean time i went to put in the axles i got and they turned out to be the wrong ones. would love to hear how the 88 all trac ones work for u. might just get a set for myself if they do

My GT4's were too short. These are much longer as seen in the pic (about the size of what most claim is needed in the form of a spacer). Per tweak, these are the outer stubs they use on all the swaps they do.

[DaTerrorist]

hm. sounds like a headache to get and find what is needed to get it. i think ill head back to the shop and see if i can get some 6g gt axles and call it good for now

[MGCustoms325]

hm. sounds like a headache to get and find what is needed to get it. i think ill head back to the shop and see if i can get some 6g gt axles and call it good for now

It's easy. Walk in to advance auto parts and ask for the passenger side outer stub from an 88 celica alltrac. The only trivial part is if you want them with or with abs rings. That depends on if your car was originally equipped with abs or not. And the inner stubs are from an lsd mr2 (if youre going with an e153 trans).

BTW what trans are you using? If you are using the s54 (originally came in the GT) then you will need the 6g gt axles as the e153 axles wont fit.

[DaTerrorist]

im using a s51 trans bc it was free at least for now. the car is or should have abs. the lsd mr2 trans swap i wont be doing for a while.
the trans is originally out of a late 80's camry but it mounts up and will work until i can afford a s54.