Which way to go with my st, IDEAS, need some help/opinions Options

[NOVAKx17]

Alright guys, now that i finally have it on the road(ALMOST)
i'm leaving for basic training in may which means i'll be gone for about 6 months
after AIT is all said and done, and in that time i don't plan on spending that much
money! so i'm looking for some opinions as to what i could do with my st.

i was thinking drive it until either 1 it blows up, or starts having problems, or i get a build done.
whatever comes first.

anyways. i'm looking into 3 things. either
A: building the 7a i have on the engine stand from the swap for boost and buying one of
smaays turbo kits for the 7a once i finish the build.
B: building a 7agte, as i've been reading up on them alot lately.
or C: swapping in a 4age. possibly 4agze. but i don't know about that as i'd rather just stay
with the stock engine or hyrbid for the most part.

and that brings me to another thing, please just don't jump in this thread and say "3sgte FTW"
i know all about that and have read countless hours of posts and threads about them and i don't want
to go that route until i buy a gt.

so thanks in advance for all the advice/input

This post has been edited by NOVAKx17: Jan 12, 2011 - 12:55 AM

[HectortheRican]

I say 7AGTE. There's so few of them on here and nice little light weight monster. Personally, I may go with a 4AGE because my dad has a block and head just laying around. Recycle But probably later down the road, I want a BEAMS. I don't particularly want to go 3SGTE.

[Soulend]

Personally I don't understand waiting to get a GT? sure I didn't know I needed as much as I did when I started mine... but honestly it isn't that much harder to swap in to an ST.

7AGTE would be rare, but that engine really wouldn't last long I'd think... it was never built for it.

but either way find something that would me fun and do it.

Kevin

[808celica]

Suspension------------Exterior-----------Motor/Trans

Full Coils------------Lip kit-------------4agze

........untouchable

[njccmd2002]

not because im biased, but all those setups will probably get you close to 200 at most. boosting the 7A maybe a little more, or the 7agte more than that. So, that being said, you dont want a 3sgte.

what is your goal in hp, how much?

GT ST, that is just cosmetics. few things here and there, blah.

swaping or boosting aint easy and requires a lot of patience.

In my experience. Doing the beams swap, was easy, and cosidering other swaps out there, it was hassle free.

1. No boosting,
2. Comes with lsd tranny,
3. easy wiring,
4. on an ST very few changes.

When i finished wiring the Beams, I cranked it the first time, and did not start, then i tightened some grounds, and Boom. I did not even change water pump, timing belt, or clutch. Straight as is. Of course i knew it had 45 k miles. It will be serviced soon, but hey what more easy than that.

Im not selling you a beams, but why go trough the hassle for a few hp increase, when this engine already makes it hassle free. Now if your goals are greater then 3sgte, but then again, you dont want it.

[NOVAKx17]

I say 7AGTE. There's so few of them on here and nice little light weight monster. Personally, I may go with a 4AGE because my dad has a block and head just laying around. Recycle But probably later down the road, I want a BEAMS. I don't particularly want to go 3SGTE.

I am highly contemplating 7AGTE but i don't know if i want to try building 2 motors into one when all i've ever done is swapped the same engine before. Although you never learn unless you try right? its definately on my list of options i'm going to look through first. so if i can find a good deal on what i would need for it, 7AGTE project maybe (:

Personally I don't understand waiting to get a GT? sure I didn't know I needed as much as I did when I started mine... but honestly it isn't that much harder to swap in to an ST.

7AGTE would be rare, but that engine really wouldn't last long I'd think... it was never built for it.

but either way find something that would me fun and do it.

Kevin

its just the fact that i don't preferably want to put a 3SGTE into my st. i know its not that much different, just a tad bit more fabrication, trust me , i've done my research, read over 30 threads on the 3s and its tempting, i just don't want to put it into my st. just a decision i made my mind up on.

and as for not lasting long, i think its nik that has had one for awhile but i never asked him how it runs or its reliabilty but he seems to love it

Suspension------------Exterior-----------Motor/Trans

Full Coils------------Lip kit-------------4agze

........untouchable

right now i'm on kyb replacements lowered 2" on eibachs, because i got them all brand new for under 100 bucks
but i'm still looking around for a good deal on coilovers, i agree 100% thats the way to go,
and gotta love the lip kits! i don't want splitters, i'm thinking oem skirts (which i have) and a full rear lip, not sure which
kind, i've contacted a couple companys in japan trying to get them to ship to me, no luck yet. and as for a front lip, theres a lot
of decisions.... 4agze... hmmmmmmmmm i'd love to try this, i just haven't came across too many threads with alot of info on this
swap just yet for the 6g

not because im biased, but all those setups will probably get you close to 200 at most. boosting the 7A maybe a little more, or the 7agte more than that. So, that being said, you dont want a 3sgte.

what is your goal in hp, how much?

GT ST, that is just cosmetics. few things here and there, blah.

swaping or boosting aint easy and requires a lot of patience.

In my experience. Doing the beams swap, was easy, and cosidering other swaps out there, it was hassle free.

1. No boosting,
2. Comes with lsd tranny,
3. easy wiring,
4. on an ST very few changes.

When i finished wiring the Beams, I cranked it the first time, and did not start, then i tightened some grounds, and Boom. I did not even change water pump, timing belt, or clutch. Straight as is. Of course i knew it had 45 k miles. It will be serviced soon, but hey what more easy than that.

Im not selling you a beams, but why go trough the hassle for a few hp increase, when this engine already makes it hassle free. Now if your goals are greater then 3sgte, but then again, you dont want it.

see in the beginning i wanted a beams for my st. still may be in my list of options, definately alot of power for the money without a turbo. its close to what 210 right?
and i'm looking for around 220-250 hp and i figure i could reach that with building up the 7A, full 2.5" exhaust, and turbo with moderate amount of boost.

but i definately have to agree the beams is very tempting....

[HectortheRican]

see in the beginning i wanted a beams for my st. still may be in my list of options, definately alot of power for the money without a turbo. its close to what 210 right?
and i'm looking for around 220-250 hp and i figure i could reach that with building up the 7A, full 2.5" exhaust, and turbo with moderate amount of boost.

but i definately have to agree the beams is very tempting....
[/quote]
No matter what route I take, I'll definitely end up with a BEAMS. They had 197 hp at the flywheel brand new, off the floor. And since there's more aftermarket support for a 3SGE than there is for say, a 7A or a 5S, 220-250hp for a N/A BEAMS is easily attainable.

This post has been edited by HectortheRican: Jan 12, 2011 - 10:15 AM

[NOVAKx17]

No matter what route I take, I'll definitely end up with a BEAMS. They had 197 hp at the flywheel brand new, off the floor. And since there's more aftermarket support for a 3SGE than there is for say, a 7A or a 5S, 220-250hp for a N/A BEAMS is easily attainable.

thats a very good point, and like njccmd said its alot less hassle and alot less to worry about being non turbo. not to mention comes with the lsd.
soooo many decisions... this is going to have to take alot more researching. BLAH.

butttt on the bright side, i'll have 6 months of semi free time to study up ha

This post has been edited by NOVAKx17: Jan 12, 2011 - 10:25 AM

[presure2]

gaining 40hp on a already high strung motor like the 3sge is not nearly as easy (or as cheap) as you guys think, just FYI.

[NOVAKx17]

gaining 40hp on a already high strung motor like the 3sge is not nearly as easy (or as cheap) as you guys think, just FYI.

i know this... i'm not really talking about gaining any more horsepower if i were to go with the beams.
i'm just weighing out all my options and trying to get some input from people who have went through this already
or are thinking of the same routes to go that i am so i can get the most from my money and time and have a car
i will love to drive.

[presure2]

that was more for hector than you, his "220-250hp with a beams is easily attainable" comment perked my interest.

just keep researching, and more you learn now, the easier whatever route you choose will be down the road.

the best advice i can give you is try to meet as many people with celicas as you can, and ride in theyre swapped/modded cars before you jump into any swap.
you'll be suprized how much of an influence it will make on your decisions.

[NOVAKx17]

oh ha, well i'm glad you jumped in on the topic at least. its always nice getting to learn little tid bits here and there like that.
and for sure, i'm really upset i've missed out on 2 meets so far, but i'm really hoping to get to make it to one in the spring time
or at least 1 before i leave in may... that way i can do just that and have something to think about while i'm gone.

also while i'm in south carolina and arizona i might try to make it to a meet or two or meet up with a member or two if i can talk
them into it so i can check out some more swaps if i can find any in nearby areas!

[HectortheRican]

gaining 40hp on a already high strung motor like the 3sge is not nearly as easy (or as cheap) as you guys think, just FYI.

I was shooting more towards the 220 side, but I used the 220-250 range that Mike used just for continuity. I know with a good CAI, header, exhaust, and de-cat, you could probably get 210-220. Then you're right, from then on, it won't be cheap.

This post has been edited by HectortheRican: Jan 12, 2011 - 11:26 AM

[presure2]

yea, and just a "good" header for the beams is in the neighborhood of 800$.

its not cheap, any way you slice it.

[HectortheRican]

yea, and just a "good" header for the beams is in the neighborhood of 800$.

its not cheap, any way you slice it.

Touché good sir. How can I argue with Manny about BEAMS?

[njccmd2002]

yea, and just a "good" header for the beams is in the neighborhood of 800$.

its not cheap, any way you slice it.

if you can find one in the US, then and shipping, and custom fees lol.

Novak and hector: If you "swap" your residence to australia, then youll be in a better market. LOL

Beams is a good swap and forget engine. Tuning and aftermarket parts are expensive and GL finding them. Remember this. if you swap a beams, thats it. 200HP.

[whatthe]

From what i know there isnt much aftermarket support for BEAMS... its pretty perfect that way it is stock. Meaning if you want to squeeze more juice of of it you will be paying alot for custom parts.

[NOVAKx17]

Valid points Sirs.

the things i'm liking most about beams is that 1 it won't need much upkeep and hopefully be hassle free for the most part!
and 2 that it comes with the lsd tranny! definately some strong selling points to me!

but then again on the other hand, a 7AFTE is also looking very good to me considering the car is already made for a 7a and
that i have a 7a sitting on the stand ready to be rebuilt ...

so that brings me to the conclusion that its going to be between putting in a BEAMS or building a 7AFTE...

lets hear some pros and cons.... i don't have much/if any experience with turboed engines.

[chriskm]

I've owned 5sfe and 5sge powered 5th gens, and a 4age 20v ST.
Since driving that 20v, I've been a die hard fan and wanted to mate that head to a 7a block, with possible mods for turbo.
Granted, my dream build isn't the most economical, but it's been done and is pretty unique (plus I think it looks more awesome than a 3s).

[BonzaiCelica]

No not all Beams come with an LSD only the ones in the SS-III came with a Helical LSD. Just so you know Norberto. There are two engine clips on rpm garage with 50,000 miles and come with helical lsd just fyi!!! Yea you would have to custom make a header and intake. With a apex power fc stand alone ecu, header and exhaust, intake, and light weight flywheel, which will cost you about $3,500 you'll gain about 210hp to the crank maybe even a little more depending on your tuner.

[NOVAKx17]

thanks for the info on the ones on rpm garage, but i'm not planning on swapping anything until after Basic and Ait, and i don't leave until may, so about 6 months after that i can start taking action on whatever it is a decide to do.

and if i were to turbo the 7A instead of going with the beams i'd 100% buy Smaays kit that he is going to be producing. i've read over his thread on it probably 3-4 times and it looks like really good quality and i could get everything at once for the most part for a good price!

only thing i'm not liking about the turbo set up idea is hearing how it takes alot more maintenece and continuous work... but either way, both ideas seem in my mind like its going to cost me about the same in the end

[Rusty]

heres a good link about a 7A-GTE build from over here in new zealand.
I'll see if I can get some photos.

[NOVAKx17]

pretty awesome link there...

i just think it would of been alot cooler to read if it would of had alot more information
and pictures of the whole process, but thanks for that, its always nice to broaden
my horizons of possible options even a little more.

[Rusty]

all* the details about his build are on a new zaealand fourm (which afaik other country's can't enter) so I'll try dig up some info for you, if you want?

[NOVAKx17]

that would be awesome if you don't mind (:

[Rusty]

on youtube he has some videos, heres a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CglC-y6m_zU

1988 Toyota Levin GTZ 7agte 20v 337kw@26psi 98 pump gas, 1/4mile: 10.88sec @ 209.57km/h
Engine:
7AFE Block and Crank
7afe block modified to suit the rods
4age oil squirters fitted
7afe crank, balanced and dowels for the flywheel
7afe standard alloy sump
20v Black Top Head and cams
Performance Valve springs made in Australia
TRD 0.8mm Head Gasket
JE special designed forged pistons
7.9:1 Compression
Saenz H beam Billet Rods with Aircraft Spec bolts custom made
ARP bolts all round

Electrics:
Autronic SMC
Evo Coil packs
Evo Module
Evo Optical Distributor
Gizzmo Launch controller

Fuel:
SARD 800cc injectors
Pierburg intank lifter pump 5.5 LPM
Custom Alloy Surge Tank
Bosch 044 External pump
Upgraded Braded fuel lines Through out whoel car
Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator

Driveline:
Quarter Master twin plate rally pack clutch
Custom billet steel flywheel
4agze gear box with a mixture of aw11 s/c and ae92 s/c ratios with some trick mods and a TRD plate lsd
Custom made driveshafts

Intake:
20v quad throttle bodies
Custom Intake Plenum
2.5" Intercooler piping

Exhaust:
Custom Steam Pipe Twin Port Manifolds
T3/4 500hp Turbo
2x 38mm Tial External Wastegates
3" Downpipe
Full 3" stainless system with a cannon muffler

Cooling:
600x300x76 Bar n Plate Intercooler
External Oil filter kit with a Setrab Oil Cooler
Pushlok Oil lines
Audi A4 alloy radiator 600x300x50

(pump gas)








these are commetns hes made which I thought were important...

Pulled my engine out, getting new pistons made with a new design for better durability. Pistons are being made as we speak , just had the block machined to fit in 4age oil squirters.
...
Long time since an update.

Had to stick in new rings to the engine.
So I reconditioned the head at the same time.
New syncros in the g/box as well.
Got lots of stuff powder coated and all prettied up.
Also another turbo from Masterpower to try out, and now getting full boost before 4k.
...

Test fitted my new custom made 7afe rods today. Fit perfect! Engine build has finally begun.

that was a bit trickier than I thought, as he changed is mind and rebuilt it here and there. but hopefully this info is helpful for you.

[NOVAKx17]

Oh my jesus. that is a sick build.

alot of time effort and money went into that beast..

not to mention alot of custom fabricating...

it is helpful, not going to lie, but i doubt whatever way i decide to go that
it will be anything like this... just because i have no where near the experience
to be able to do anything like that yet, or the money. i guarantee that
cost thousands upon thousands .... whatever it is i decide to do, i'm looking to spend between
3-5000 probably.

but i really do appreciate all this info, even not doing it, its still really nice to be able to read into it.

[Smaay]

I really need to get Eryns car on the dyno to see what she is making. Ill have another 7A turbo kit on the shelf at the end of next week.

[NOVAKx17]

YES! do so, i would love to finally know now... and thats awesome... if i decide to go that route, since i'll already have my celica with me in arizona, i might make a little bit further of a venture and when i'm ready just have you install it for me, (with me helping, if you don't mind as a learning experience) that way i would know its done right, and learn how to do it at the same time...

that is if you would be up for that, and i could throw some extra cash your way if your interested in that possibility

[NOVAKx17]

looking into an option or two... will post some info when i get the paperwork finished with the thoughts so i can get some input put in on it.....

things are looking interesting, i will say that...


keep posting ideas, never know which direction will be persued until its all said and done.

good help so far (=