Supercharged 7AFE, Still too many doubts.. Options

[Shoker]

Hi to all,
I'm pretty new here but I've been reading topics for a while in Forced Induction, and I saw some very interesting projects.
I'm planning to do a SC build on my 7AFE, leaving the engine stock.
The boost I'm looking for is about 10\11 psi and I'm planning to mount a small front air\air intercooler and eventually a water spray on it.
The whole project will run around AEM FIC piggyback ECU, and Eaton M62 SC (mercedes spec with electric clutch) but obviously one of the biggest problems that I face is the ability of the stock injectors to follow the boost.
I've read that stock "red top" 7afe injectors are rated 192 cc\min @3bar, and they seem small for a boost of 10 psi, aren't them?


The possible choices, I've seen used in other builds, are:
"Supra Green top" rated 312cc\min


"Celica\MR2 Green top" rated 220cc\min


and "indefinite rate" Ford Probe installed by the guy in this video.

The question is: will stock injectors follow the boost till 10psi? Could be enough to upgrade the fuel pump and regulator with stock injectors?

Thanks for your attention.

p.s. sorry for my English, I'm from italy.
pp.s. really nice forum and cars, keep on going!!!!

[Smaay]

where do you plan on installing this SC?

the Supra green/yellow injectors will be enough, the MR2/Celica green tops will not be enough

[Shoker]

I'm planning to put the SC unit on the top of the alternator, probably it's not the best solution (longer pipings), but seems pretty straight thru.
Otherwise seems also a good idea to swap the position between alternator and SC (for piping needs) or just pull out the AC system and place the supercharger instead, but those solutions require much more extra welding and time than the simply "SC on top".
Also I'm pretty concerned on the SC pulley: I'm going to make a "double" pulley (in alloy, ergal, iron... idk) and place it in place of the original alternator pulley, so engine will drive alternator, alternator will drive SC.. it doesn't seem a good idea to me but I can't see any other options instead, except putting a single belt covering both SC and alternator, but still faces the problem of not being able to choose the driving ratio of the SC.

Talking about injectors: those Supra Green Top are plug and play?

Thanks for the reply!

This post has been edited by Shoker: May 24, 2011 - 2:25 AM

[al94st]

The easiest way would be to remove the A/C compressor. There isn't really a way to go on top of the alternator, the supercharger will be a lot higher than the hood. The only thing I have left to figure out on my setup is how to mount the alternator. I put the s/c where the alternator was and I'm running it off of the 4 rib A/C belt. Honestly after all the work I've put into it, I should have just put in a 3sgte or if it was available b4 I started I might've just bought smaay's turbo kit. If you have any doubts about it just wait a couple months until I'm done with mine and see if it's worth it.

[Smaay]

there is not enough room on the front of the engine anywhere. there is this thing called exhaust in the way. the header and downpipe take up too much space. the ONLY feasable place for the SC to go is on the back of the engine, but you also have the power steering pump in the way. while i like SC alot, they are not the best FI option for the 6th gen. turbo is the best with an simple nitrous setup as a second option.

[al94st]

Thats not true, mine fits on the front of the engine. I know the picture doesn't have my header on, but it fits. The right side radiator fan wont fit, but that's not a big deal.

[Shoker]

Really nice setup al94st! In the week end I'll try to put some work in cad for belts and pulleys, eaton isn't small but fits between hood and alternator.
Pretty unsure where all pipings will stay but I want to give it a try.

[Shoker]

Much concerned where to put my alternator, al94st where do you plan to put yours?
IMHO on the other side the engine is pretty "full", no more space for the alternator.
Thinking about removing the whole AC and moving there the SC..
Still fighting between the hood and alternator: there's enough space but there's lack of ideas how fasten the SC...
Probably on saturday I'll start to move all the relay stuff away from the "hot spot" near the alternator to make room.

[SupraKid]

Very interesting, great to see people actually doing new things with these engines!!

[al94st]

I was going to put the alternator on the back side of the engine. I actually made a bracket and had it lined up, but there's no way to get the belt to tension with it back there unless you put in a bunch of idler pulleys. The only place I think I can put it now is back near where it orginally was, but turned around. So it will actually be mounted somewhere close to the motor mount...I haven't figured it out 100% yet. It would be much easier to remove the A/C and just put the supercharger there. If I didn't know that I'd use my A/C when it's hot then I would've definitely done that, but I need my A/C.

This post has been edited by al94st: May 26, 2011 - 3:15 PM

[PolliS_5S-FE]

bah, just hook up a desk fan on your dashboard

[Shoker]

bah, just hook up a desk fan on your dashboard

What about dry ice packs in the seats???

[Smaay]

ok now ican see your pic, if you were going to do that, get a setup like the TC TRD supercharger that uses a long shaft to move teh compressor to teh otehr side of the engine, then the header will not be an issue

[nsxtypeR]

Ditch the power steering and put the sc in that place. Then go with electronic powersteering from an mr2 or something like that. Has been done before.

[nsxtypeR]

As mentioned by Smaay:

[Shoker]

Intresting, but these solutions will not allow me to use an IC.
I'm thinking about (as said by nsxtypeR):
-Get an electric motor
-Put it on the powersteer pump
-Move the alternator instead of the pump
-Put the SC instead of alternator

But will the ratio between crank pulley & SC be correct?
Nope: crank pulley=~ 13 cm SCpulley=~ 11 cm RATIO=1.18 instead of 1.70

[Bitter]

SC12 or SC14 isn't an option?

[al94st]

As mentioned by Smaay:

Called ripp mods when I was starting my setup and they weren't much help...they don't like to sell just the shaft and they're dicks. The Scion's have bearing problems due to the shaft setup. Those are the reasons I decided not to do that.

As far as taking out power steering. You would need a different water pump pulley because the PS pump uses such a small belt. Plus then you're running your supercharger off your water pump pulley, which I'm personally not fond of.

P.S. link to my build thread
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=75430

This post has been edited by al94st: May 28, 2011 - 9:58 AM

[Smaay]

why dont u just turbo it?

[Shoker]

why dont u just turbo it?

Where's the fun to do everybody the same?
and superchargers sounds so sexy....

Just moved the relay stuff away and placed near the abs. Tomorrow I'll focus on the grey cables coming from the alternator..

This post has been edited by Shoker: May 28, 2011 - 10:54 AM

[nsxtypeR]

As far as taking out power steering. You would need a different water pump pulley because the PS pump uses such a small belt. Plus then you're running your supercharger off your water pump pulley, which I'm personally not fond of.

There's no need for a different waterpump pulley. The waterpump is drivin by the timingbelt. Powersteering has a seperate belt from the crankshaft pulley, which you can use for the sc.

[al94st]

LOL! No, the water pump is driven by a belt off of the crank pulley (the same belt that drives the alternator) and the PS pump is driven off of the pulley on the water pump. If you look at my build thread and look at the timing belt, you'll see that it does not touch the water pump.

[Shoker]

[al94st]

^ exactly, with VP being the power steering and WP being the water pump

This post has been edited by al94st: May 28, 2011 - 11:44 AM

[nsxtypeR]

Ok cool, never knew the 7A was different.

Isn't it possible to get a crankshaftpulley from a S series engine?

[al94st]

What good would that do?

[nsxtypeR]

Then you can place a sc in place of the powersteeringpump without the need to change the waterpump. You'll have to convert to electric powersteering offcourse

[al94st]

Hmm, now you've got me thinking again. You wouldn't need to change to a "s" series crank pulley, but looking at it again....it might be possible to go to an electric PS pump and put the supercharger on the back side utilizing a 4 rib belt that runs the a/c with another idler pulley. I used a 4 rib and had to add an idler to put it on the front. One thing I do know is there's not a lot of room for my vortech on the backside, especially with engine movement. But, I think Shoker is trying to stay away from rear mounting as well due to wanting to use an intercooler?

This post has been edited by al94st: May 29, 2011 - 12:08 PM

[Shoker]

But, I think Shoker is trying to stay away from rear mounting as well due to wanting to use an intercooler?

Exactly!
Another thing to take care of is length and position of the intake.
The temperature gain of the SC makes necessary to eat the air as cool as possible to stay safe and away from detonation, so (IMHO) rear engine mounting is to avoid, even if you can try to connect to the original airbox, how do you reach the front bumper with a 2.5" pipe?

[Shoker]

Just finished the electric work in the engine bay, now there's enough space (probably). Tomorrow will try to put the SC in there and see if the hood will accept it..
One blurry cellphone pic of the work. Note the relay box moved up and the missing gray tube containing alternator cables and various sensors\actuators

[Smaay]

i hate to say it, but i still say going turbo is your better option

[Shoker]

The SC fits (quasi) nice under the hood now.
Probably there will be little problems for the outlet port of the sc, now it's time to think about pipings intercoolers and fuel system.
Probably I will change the oil cooler pipings to braided lines to make room for the small IC ( 29"-6"-2.5").
Now just wondering: where the SC will suck air from? Probably from the hole behind the (ex)foglamp but there will seat IC pipings... DOH!


A little question for you: swapping to supra injectors will be make necessary to swap to a better pump (like the ultraclassic walbro 255lph)? Or the stock one will be enough?

[95celicastLSR]

The SC fits (quasi) nice under the hood now.
Probably there will be little problems for the outlet port of the sc, now it's time to think about pipings intercoolers and fuel system.
Probably I will change the oil cooler pipings to braided lines to make room for the small IC ( 29"-6"-2.5").
Now just wondering: where the SC will suck air from? Probably from the hole behind the (ex)foglamp but there will seat IC pipings... DOH!


A little question for you: swapping to supra injectors will be make necessary to swap to a better pump (like the ultraclassic walbro 255lph)? Or the stock one will be enough?

You will need the 255stock one does not put out enough to upgrade injectors... I have one in my car its an st with intake header and timing advance does good and never had anyproblems for over3years

[RabidTRD]

As mentioned by Smaay:

How much did you gain with that setup?! Also, what kind of headers are those and what injectors did you use?

Just realized that's a Camry 5S-FE. Would that still work in the Celica?

This post has been edited by RabidTRD: Jun 10, 2011 - 8:50 PM

[al94st]

The SC fits (quasi) nice under the hood now.
Probably there will be little problems for the outlet port of the sc, now it's time to think about pipings intercoolers and fuel system.
Probably I will change the oil cooler pipings to braided lines to make room for the small IC ( 29"-6"-2.5").
Now just wondering: where the SC will suck air from? Probably from the hole behind the (ex)foglamp but there will seat IC pipings... DOH!


A little question for you: swapping to supra injectors will be make necessary to swap to a better pump (like the ultraclassic walbro 255lph)? Or the stock one will be enough?

You will need the 255stock one does not put out enough to upgrade injectors... I have one in my car its an st with intake header and timing advance does good and never had anyproblems for over3years

Cool, are you going to put it on a dyno when you're done? It'd be interesting to compare numbers on our cars once they're both done. I'm also running a Walbro 255, just put it in a week ago.

[Shoker]

Cool, are you going to put it on a dyno when you're done? It'd be interesting to compare numbers on our cars once they're both done. I'm also running a Walbro 255, just put it in a week ago.

Probably I'll put the car on a dyno (first of all for tuning purposes).

Yesterday I' ve put the supercharger into the engine bay with some wood under it to "simulate" the connecting hardware: the SC has 20mm (0.787'') of room under and still doesn't touch the hood.
Probably the next week I'll start to do some cutting and welding work to make the support for the SC.

[Shoker]

Sorry for being away for a long time... now it's time for news!

Right now I'm welding the "weld-o monster frame" that will keep up the SC.
AEM FIC, AEM Uego and walbro pump are on their way to reach me the next week.

Probably after I've finished the welding work on the SC frame I will focus on AEM installation.

Still searching a good online shop to buy a small ic pipings etc... and still seaching for supra injectors!

[matts94celica]

Sorry for being away for a long time... now it's time for news!

Right now I'm welding the "weld-o monster frame" that will keep up the SC.
AEM FIC, AEM Uego and walbro pump are on their way to reach me the next week.

Probably after I've finished the welding work on the SC frame I will focus on AEM installation.

Still searching a good online shop to buy a small ic pipings etc... and still seaching for supra injectors!

I have 2 spare green top supra injectors. Leme know if you need them.

[95celicastLSR]

I have 6 440cc toyota supra injectors,with pigtails.... let me know

[Neon90424]

that setup has so much compound charging potential

[Shoker]

I have 6 440cc toyota supra injectors,with pigtails.... let me know

There's a pm for you.

[Shoker]

Installed the AEM FIC... worked on it for about two weeks and now it runs just fine..
Got many problems with crank and cam position senstors, noisy signals.
Aem and local reseller have not been helpful in debugging the problem, but finally I've managed on my own to get the thing to work.
No more bumpy idle or mega-extra-bloody-rich AFR.

Waiting for walbro fuel pump and for supra injectors .

This post has been edited by Shoker: Sep 18, 2011 - 11:50 AM

[matts94celica]

Bump any updates??

[Shoker]

Sorry guys for being away so much time!
The project is stopped right now becouse I'm running out of money but there are some updates:
The sc is now fitted under the hood perfectly, the AEM works nice and the supra injectors arrived.
By now I'm working on the pipings and other small things and waiting devil's own meth injection parts to arrive (while developing a custom controller mappable thru the AEM FI/C)
Even if the intercooler costs less I have chosen the water/meth injection for convenience and "invisibility" (probably I'll lower the boost to about 8 psi).
Still waiting for the walbro pump.

[celica74]

Updates?