finally figured out what im gonna do Options

[freddy121389]

so ive finally figured out what im gonna do, ive been listening to everyone and since my celica is my dd I'm going to do light modifications to it along with cams. Only thing is i know nothing about which cams to get. i know the 246 from webcams doesnt require any valve spring mods but anything below that it does, im not sure what i should use, any suggestions?

[freddy121389]

has anyone done cams in their 5sfe on a n/a build, ive read a few things on mr2 forums but want to see if anyone on here has any feedback

[Malhar95]

Same question...in my case, I have stock cams...need to know where to send for this mod and what differenc. It makes?

[njccmd2002]

for 500 bucks you gain maybe 10 to 15 hp...

i think but im not sure...

[PolliS_5S-FE]

Do you know how significant the hp increase would be on a 5sfte

[6G96GT]

I think you get more then that for HP. I've sent mine out to Colt Cams to get done already but I've already had my head ported and polished along with a full exhaust set up. As Geoff from Colt told me, it's going to feel like you just got kicked in the ass when you punch it. I'm looking forward to it.

[presure2]

freddy, if you had used the search function, you'd have come across dustins thread from when he got the webcams "294" grind (no other valvetrain mods required other than shims with these)
he gained a solid 10whp peak, and ~ 25+whp closer to redline.
and that was compared to my 98 5sfe, which had alot less wear and miles on it.

heres a shot from his dyno VS my 5s..the peak power #'s really dont tell the story, its up top, closer to redline where it really shows a big gain over the stock cams, and where you really feel the biggest diffrence while driving.
it really changes the way the 5s feels.
its not a beams powerband (the beams is smoother and more powerfull, even with the cams) but its definetly a huge improvment over stock.



when i got them from him, and installed them in the 5sfte, it was a night and day diffrence up top, just as i expected it to be, heres a quick shot of what the diffrence looks like on paper.
again, dont really pay attention to the #'s, as theyre not really compareable, because of the diffrence in mods, its the shape of the powerband that matters.
you can clearly see how the cams allow the motor to breath alot better up top, allowing me to hold power out closer to redline.

[freddy121389]

awesome thanks manny, im pretty sure this is the route im gonna take, just wanted to see what yalls feedback was, i did search but didnt find any n/a builds and i didnt think to search for 294 grind of cam because i was unsure what cam to put in my car, but you think 294 for n/a is the best way to go?

[presure2]

No, but that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.
If my only option was to build an n/a 5sfe, I'd want to get that motor breathing better up top, the 294 grind is a very mild setup, iirc mrturrari over on mr2oc has tried the 101 grind, and at least one other.
I'd definelty look at getting better springs and retainers, and whatever other mods so I could raise the red line to at least 7500rpm, and do whatever intake and exhaust mods were required to get the motor to make power up to there. (oversized valves, custom intake manifold, custom header...blah blah..and end up with a setup that would behave something like a beams motor, but without the vvti.
But that's just me, after running the boosted 5sfe for so long, and now with the 3rd gen, and driving steff and d's beams, I'm biased.
The money it would take to build a 5sfe that would be worth it for me is not the same as you, or the next guy.
That said, cams definitely are one of the best 5sfe mods out there imo, unless your planning on swapping down the road. (to me that's just money that you can put toward a swap.)
Hell, if you break it down, and do the install properly, your probably almost 1/2 way or more to a beams swap.
Think about it like this.
Say you get cams from webcams.
Your gonna spend 500+ on the cams, but then you gotta get the right sized shims. At 7$ each, you may get luck and only need a few, but be prepared to buy as many as 10 or more.
Then, you gotta pull the timing belt to do the cams, might as well replace that while you hand it apart..water pump, cam seal, oil pump seal all fall into the same category.
Sure, you can do it without doing any of that stuff, but always best to at least inspect and replace as needed.
Ya also have the valve cover off as well, so that's a good time to replace it as well, and bell, distributor comes out as well, so at least check the oring on it..
It can get close to or over 1k$..and that's assuming you can do it all yourself and have all the tools to get it done..
Just food for thought.

[freddy121389]

That is true and I've definitely considered that, I just don't wanna have to deal with swaping an engine when I know not to much about it and I need a car running since I travel alot, cams and replacement of water pump and timing belt wont be that bad and it maybe close to 1k but being my car has only 86k miles it has alot of life left. I do appreciate the thought though beams is a beautiful engine and would love to have it in my car. I also want to leave my car an auto so upgrading valves and springs to go to a higher redline is pointless.

[njccmd2002]

ha i was almost in the nail. i remembered someone did the cams, but did not remember who it was, so could not search as cam is a 3 letter word and gave me bunch of errors searching. but anyways..

beams auto you can get.. Here is what u do...

buy a beams 5 speed with lsd.. keep the engine and sell the lsd 54s for 400 bucks. or buy an auto beams, they are cheaper than manuals.

that being said, low mileage beams with proper documentation, never buy a beams that there is reasonable doubt. any sign of oil leak on a beams is an easy 500 plus repair. the gasket set is your problem, its expensive and rare..

but if you find a reliable motor and treat it with love, youll be all set.....


gl

[freddy121389]

i appreciate the help guys i really do but im pretty set on just modding the 5s unboosted
This is what I'm looking at getting done and please give me feedback as to what you think or something else i might be able to go with.

Tanabe medalion gpower headers (Have)
greddy sp2 exhaust
K&N drop in filter (Dont think a CAI will differ from the stock box with K&N too much) (Have)
294 grind camshaft from webcams
Port and polish
apexi safc neo (still looking into what is needed to get this installed but need this for when cams go in)
Iridium sparkplugs and nology wires (Have)

and then as far as the questionable stuff
larger intake manifold, (looking into seeing if the 3sge intake manifold bolts up to the 5s)
valve angle job (unsure if this will even do anything since my car is auto and wont be reving past 6k)
forged cp pistons ( the car already runs a 9:1 ratio and dont think different pistons will make a difference)
MSD Coilpack upgrade (not sure if this will make a difference at all, anyone have any feedback on this)

[PolliS_5S-FE]

sounds pricey .

u wanna keep it auto? why not change tranny to manual for another power % increase

This post has been edited by PolliS_5S-FE: Jul 28, 2011 - 6:22 AM

[ST205WRC]

MSD Coilpack upgrade (not sure if this will make a difference at all, anyone have any feedback on this)

when i was in the states i had a MSD SCI-L on my 5th gen ST. the 4afe got a little perkier after i put it in. revved a lot nicer. it was like the difference in old busted plugs and wires and brand new ones all the time lol.

This post has been edited by ST205WRC: Jul 28, 2011 - 7:19 AM

[freddy121389]

sounds pricey .

u wanna keep it auto? why not change tranny to manual for another power % increase

cuz i like the auto lol, im weird i know i want power and i want the auto, i like the auto cuz i dont like shifting everywhere i go i like cruising but i just want a little more pep in the car is all, obviously if i had a manual id upgrade valves and springs to raise the rev limit

[presure2]

your gonna be dissapointed with the cams in an auto car.
the revs almost never get high enough to take advantage of the cams.
the auto tranny shifts to early unless its floored, and even then, its crappy at best.

[freddy121389]

your gonna be dissapointed with the cams in an auto car.
the revs almost never get high enough to take advantage of the cams.
the auto tranny shifts to early unless its floored, and even then, its crappy at best.

Lol probably but I wont know until I try, i actually did a lot of research on mr2oc and most that have done n/a builds of the 5s say it isnt that much beneficial for a budget build to raise the rpm of the engine, but for around 1000$ i can get power of about 145whp-150whp and thats without a tune or p&p which i plan on doing. As far as oversized valves I'm still unsure but i know i can use the 2jzgte valves for a 2mm oversized valve.

This post has been edited by freddy121389: Jul 30, 2011 - 2:55 PM

[PolliS_5S-FE]

145whp? i think thats generous :\

[freddy121389]

145whp? i think thats generous :\

Im just quoting what members at mr2oc were saying and 145-150whp was the most they were saying they've seen from those upgrades

This post has been edited by freddy121389: Jul 31, 2011 - 12:47 AM

[PolliS_5S-FE]

niiiiiiiiiiiice

[presure2]

145whp? i think thats generous :\

Im just quoting what members at mr2oc were saying and 145-150whp was the most they were saying they've seen from those upgrades

trust me, you'll be very lucky to get 145whp.

the guy who made 145whp had ported head, shaved deck, blah blah...its all a waste of money.
you may not know till you try...but ive been there, done that. lol mild cams in an auto car is really pointless.

[freddy121389]

I hate when you guys are right, lol I wanted to make my car faster on this auto tranny but you guys are right I did research all night last night and added up the cost and for more if not double the power and I can have that for a little more money. I'm just gonna doing headers and exhaust, make it look nice then get myself either an all trac or a 6th gen with a 3s swap its just smarter money wise. My over all goal for this project was to keep it like it is now but with more power and the cost vs outcome isn't worth it. I may look into getting a beams w/ auto tranny swap but the only thing with that is what if it goes out you can't find parts for them at all. I'm listening to you guys though and make the smarter decision and just leave it the way it is for now and starting looking else where for more power.

[PolliS_5S-FE]

It is a sad fact theres not alot you can do with the 5s without bucket loads of $ or turbo, 3s

[6G96GT]

The only prob with a header and exhaust is you'll end up losing low-end power. The upside though is that'll you gain top end power (not really a whole lot in the gain (but noticeable) but again, you will lose low end and that sucks.

[PolliS_5S-FE]

x2 for an auto