Converting a ZR (ST204) to an AWD?, How is it done? Options

[KaneO]

This is just out of curiosity and is thing that has been lingering in the back of my mind for a while. I know its possible but how and what needs to be done?? I've read so many forums on other sites about doing this but they all can't seem to give a down to earth answer on what actually is done to the car. In other words they seem to give completely different explanations or basic instructions from one another. Here in Australia GT4s are on the pricey side and a rare find.. So thought in the coming years a AWD conversion might an cheaper and beta (not necessary Easier) solution.

First Forum post by the way I am new to 6gc =P

[czwalga]

Welding and patience. Unless you do all the work yourself its definitely not going to be cheaper. You can take a look at my build thread on the AWD stuff. Jmeyer's is also good.

[CelicaZR]

Welcome
General concensus is that its alot of money, time, effort and headache to do a GT4 conversion.
And after when its done, you'll also have fun trying to get it engineered.
Best to buy a GT-4 to begin with.
I'm sure I've seen a few for sale.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

You could spend more then the cost of a 205 and what you will be left with will never be the real thing, never drive like the real thing and at the end of the day its still a 200/202/204 (i know yours is a 204 but others try to do other chassis too).

These people who think they can do a better job then the worlds biggest automotive manufacturer make me lol. (granted the yanks dont get gtfours but my other points still stand)

I'll probably get flamed for a few of the comments here, but here is me not giving a sh!t.

[S8S8]

First of all, welcome to another Aussie member.

As the others said, it's much better to just buy a GT-Four in the first place.

But... you can still build a quick and fun FWD Celica! AWD isn't everything.

[czwalga]

You could spend more then the cost of a 205 and what you will be left with will never be the real thing, never drive like the real thing and at the end of the day its still a 200/202/204 (i know yours is a 204 but others try to do other chassis too).

These people who think they can do a better job then the worlds biggest automotive manufacturer make me lol. (granted the yanks dont get gtfours but my other points still stand)

I'll probably get flamed for a few of the comments here, but here is me not giving a sh!t.

If you can do all the work yourself you can do it cheaply. AWD swap cost me under $1500 including the transmission. Survived a few rallys so i'm sure it' drive's just fine. However, like I said if you dont have the capability of doing it yourself it will be very costly.

As far as people building stuff better than 'the biggest automotive manufacturer'... they mass produce cars and try to do it as cheaply as possible. It's not hard to make stronger subframe mounts etc etc.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Aug 24, 2011 - 7:46 AM

[jmeyer]

^Winning^

[stephen_lee]

As far as people building stuff better than 'the biggest automotive manufacturer'... they mass produce cars and try to do it as cheaply as possible. It's not hard to make stronger subframe mounts etc etc.

true words. a good welder/fabricator CAN EASILY build a stronger, true rear end, depending on how much time and money he/she wants to spend on it.

[delusionz]

good luck having a crash in a cut and welded car, the crumple zones be fukt

[czwalga]

good luck having a crash in a cut and welded car, the crumple zones be fukt

Have you done literally anything with cars aside from putting an intake and some cool glowing gages? If you've actually ever stripped a car down and know how they were built you'd never say something so foolish.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Aug 24, 2011 - 6:55 PM

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

Of course we all know the 205 wasnt cheap, they actually lost 20k or something on each car sold, but you knew this already.

Yes im sure they built (mass produced) a car that they designed initially to win the WRC using rear end metalwork made from aluminium foil and other assorted soft metal.



Its ok delusions, they just jelly because their car will always be a poverty pack with some backyard mechanics.

This post has been edited by Cuts_the_Pilot: Aug 24, 2011 - 6:59 PM

[czwalga]

Of course we all know the 205 wasnt cheap, they actually lost 20k or something on each car sold, but you knew this already.

Yes im sure they built (mass produced) a car that they designed initially to win the WRC using rear end metalwork made from aluminium foil and other assorted soft metal.



Its ok delusions, they just jelly because their car will always be a poverty pack with some backyard mechanics.

Why would I be jealous? I have a car that puts out double the HP yours does and weighs less. Also have a "Rallye" car that I actually rally race, not just post the sticker on the interweb to act cool.

Turning into a pissing match, but really it's the people that have never done anything with cars that keep spouting off BS about stuff they really have no clue about.

[al94st]

Lol, czwalga, I hope you survive a wreck with those crumple zones. I'm sure your roll cage wont help. The truth is with the tooling and information available today, a lot of people could do the awd conversion and make it plenty strong. I'd expect to see a lot more of it in the future. A couple of good threads showing what guys have previously done and it's enough to get the ball rolling for a few more. After seeing czwalga's I'm considering doing it in the future myself.

[hatchy_gt-s]

Of course we all know the 205 wasnt cheap, they actually lost 20k or something on each car sold, but you knew this already.

Yes im sure they built (mass produced) a car that they designed initially to win the WRC using rear end metalwork made from aluminium foil and other assorted soft metal.



Its ok delusions, they just jelly because their car will always be a poverty pack with some backyard mechanics.

Why would I be jealous? I have a car that puts out double the HP yours does and weighs less. Also have a "Rallye" car that I actually rally race, not just post the sticker on the interweb to act cool.

Turning into a pissing match, but really it's the people that have never done anything with cars that keep spouting off BS about stuff they really have no clue about.

I would suggest not talking sh!t about cuts car because he has done a lot to it and it's a true group A gt4, unlike your car it will always be a wannabe and I'm not jacking on you, what you did not many try to and I commend you on that but before you go ripping on someone take the time to see what they have accomplished.

Cuts: you should also lay off of czwalga because it is posible to make a better awd then what originally came on the gt4's, I guaranty that your gt4 couldn't handle the abuse of the true gt4 they used for rally because they put massive amounts of supports and all new equipment so that it could handle off road abuse. Dont forget you still have super struts and they converted them to Mcpherson for racing!

So can we all just chill the F**K out, you're killing my buzzz

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Aug 24, 2011 - 9:39 PM

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

No stickers here, they are badges , additionally i do rally my car.
Sorry for killing your buzz hatchy.

To end the thread we could conclude that your better off buying a 205, since you live in Australia and you can buy them here.

This post has been edited by Cuts_the_Pilot: Aug 24, 2011 - 11:30 PM

[KaneO]

Thanks for the info and the welcome to the forums guys

czwalga, I'm impressed on the AWD conversion you did to your GT especially for that price. Would imagine it would of took a fair bit of dedication and skill so well done.
Unfortunately I Don't think I would have that good of fabrication skills and like use said, probably beta off buying a GT4 instead.

But like S8S8 said in there, AWD isn't everything, and I'm probably beta off throwing money into the engine, suspension ect in the future as the car is..

Its good to hear some solid information about this though.. Finally

[czwalga]

No stickers here, they are badges , additionally i do rally my car.
Sorry for killing your buzz hatchy.

To end the thread we could conclude that your better off buying a 205, since you live in Australia and you can buy them here.

I agree you're probably better off buying a gt4 since they are available.



As far as rallying your car, not a chance without a full cage. There's not a sanctioning body in the world that permits anything more than a rallyx without a cage. If you have another celica that you do rally i'd be more than happy to talk about things with you. As of now there used to be a couple 185 guys that would rally in the US, but i'm pretty much on my own. Mostly a bunch of subaru and mitsu guys.

[czwalga]

Of course we all know the 205 wasnt cheap, they actually lost 20k or something on each car sold, but you knew this already.

Yes im sure they built (mass produced) a car that they designed initially to win the WRC using rear end metalwork made from aluminium foil and other assorted soft metal.



Its ok delusions, they just jelly because their car will always be a poverty pack with some backyard mechanics.

Why would I be jealous? I have a car that puts out double the HP yours does and weighs less. Also have a "Rallye" car that I actually rally race, not just post the sticker on the interweb to act cool.

Turning into a pissing match, but really it's the people that have never done anything with cars that keep spouting off BS about stuff they really have no clue about.

I would suggest not talking sh!t about cuts car because he has done a lot to it and it's a true group A gt4, unlike your car it will always be a wannabe and I'm not jacking on you, what you did not many try to and I commend you on that but before you go ripping on someone take the time to see what they have accomplished.

Cuts: you should also lay off of czwalga because it is posible to make a better awd then what originally came on the gt4's, I guaranty that your gt4 couldn't handle the abuse of the true gt4 they used for rally because they put massive amounts of supports and all new equipment so that it could handle off road abuse. Dont forget you still have super struts and they converted them to Mcpherson for racing!

So can we all just chill the F**K out, you're killing my buzzz

I personally don't care what he has done to his car because he's wrong. He's done a lot of bolt ons and some engine work... doesn't qualify them to make statements that they did. Thanks for trying to keep the peace though.

Also, i'm not sure why he even modified his engine, who's he to think he could do a better job than toyota?

This post has been edited by czwalga: Aug 25, 2011 - 6:48 AM

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

So your saying that Toyota built a car that cannot ever be made "true"

Also, i'm not sure why he even modified his engine, who's he to think he could do a better job than toyota?

zing
However I'm not saying I can do a better job Toyota.

As for the rallying I dont do it for competition I do it for fun, I race it at the drags and around the tracks here for competition.


Back on topic, whats your budget?
I found this one, but its got a fnck load of kms, and therefore a bit overpriced IMO. It is however pretty clean inside and out (true its had a respray)

Carsales, GT-four Group A Rallye

This post has been edited by Cuts_the_Pilot: Aug 25, 2011 - 7:50 AM

[jmeyer]

First off I would like to congratulate you on owning #61 of 77 that is quite an accomplishment no backyard mechanic will ever be able to touch.

Toyota hires engineers to design their vehicles. Engineers go to college and not all of them go and work for Toyota but the ones who don’t have the same education as the ones who do. Now the ones who don’t work for Toyota save the world in another way and on the weekends build rally cars that far surpass the quality of any assembly line.

You fly planes, we design and build, don’t hate the player hate the game.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

Found this one too, its has number plates so im assuming its registered but i didnt see it listed, it doesnt have headlight squirters, aftermarket front bar possibly, but its listed as WRC not a Group A, could just be a type-o.

White 205 wrc

This post has been edited by Cuts_the_Pilot: Aug 25, 2011 - 8:07 AM

[delusionz]

good luck having a crash in a cut and welded car, the crumple zones be fukt

Have you done literally anything with cars aside from putting an intake and some cool glowing gages? If you've actually ever stripped a car down and know how they were built you'd never say something so foolish.

Fifth Gear Season 11 Episode 1, Here is the exerpt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxM9chAe1k

[delusionz]

+ let me reverse that question on you. have you performed such a crash test on a car you've welded together like that and gotten a different result?

... didn't think so.

[Culpable04]

when is all this going to stop.
some of us need to realize there are regular people out there with enough skills / ackonwlegde to build, create, invent pretty much anything.

do I think is safe for everyone to convert a FWD celica to AWD on their backyard ? No, a lot of us dont have the skills to pull it off. I can come up with all the math needed for it, but when it comes to welding I'm a total ignorant.

but yes, by all means we should give fensport a call about their 7th gen AWD monster, and rod millen to warn him about his AWD converted Celica. Yes you may say oh, but they are experts and they know what they are doing, well, unless said experts were brough over from outer space, I think over humans can match their level of expertise.

given the choice between buying a AWD celica or converting mine to AWD, I will always choose to buy the factory AWD, because is a lot less work, but that doesn't mean that a car can't be converted safely on the hands of someone with the proper skills.

[jmeyer]

It was on TV, it must be true!

[czwalga]

when is all this going to stop.
some of us need to realize there are regular people out there with enough skills / ackonwlegde to build, create, invent pretty much anything.

do I think is safe for everyone to convert a FWD celica to AWD on their backyard ? No, a lot of us dont have the skills to pull it off. I can come up with all the math needed for it, but when it comes to welding I'm a total ignorant.

but yes, by all means we should give fensport a call about their 7th gen AWD monster, and rod millen to warn him about his AWD converted Celica. Yes you may say oh, but they are experts and they know what they are doing, well, unless said experts were brough over from outer space, I think over humans can match their level of expertise.

given the choice between buying a AWD celica or converting mine to AWD, I will always choose to buy the factory AWD, because is a lot less work, but that doesn't mean that a car can't be converted safely on the hands of someone with the proper skills.

This is pretty well said.

[czwalga]

+ let me reverse that question on you. have you performed such a crash test on a car you've welded together like that and gotten a different result?

... didn't think so.

Umm you're comparing a previously wrecked and questionably repaired car to a car that precisely cut out and welded back in place. They bought a car that was repaired by a shop. There job is to get it done as quickly as possible otherwise they dont make money. Usually the people doing this are ultra conservative and take the time to do it right. I mean its a repair shop who knows how shotty there work is. I took my audi to get inspected and they couldnt even torque the wheels back on the car without torqueing them to over 200ftlbs causing the bolt to twist off when you tried to remove the wheel.


They barely showed the 'repairs' on that car but you could see that the steel was not butted together correctly, there were probably multiple fractures in the steel that were never repaired. This just shows that the car wasn't repaired correctly. I will say I couldnt watch it with audio so I may have missed something they said.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Aug 25, 2011 - 12:10 PM

[spy00005]

when is all this going to stop.
some of us need to realize there are regular people out there with enough skills / ackonwlegde to build, create, invent pretty much anything.

do I think is safe for everyone to convert a FWD celica to AWD on their backyard ? No, a lot of us dont have the skills to pull it off. I can come up with all the math needed for it, but when it comes to welding I'm a total ignorant.

but yes, by all means we should give fensport a call about their 7th gen AWD monster, and rod millen to warn him about his AWD converted Celica. Yes you may say oh, but they are experts and they know what they are doing, well, unless said experts were brough over from outer space, I think over humans can match their level of expertise.

given the choice between buying a AWD celica or converting mine to AWD, I will always choose to buy the factory AWD, because is a lot less work, but that doesn't mean that a car can't be converted safely on the hands of someone with the proper skills.

culp you said exactly what i was thinking the whole time. i myself was considering doing a awd conversion, but for me it wouldn't work out and wouldn't be necessary.


This post has been edited by spy00005: Aug 25, 2011 - 12:29 PM

[hatchy_gt-s]

So op how are you liking your celica? You should start a progress thread when you start your mods!

p.s. sorry everyone has been jacking your thread the site is not typically like this if you notice in other threads people tend to get along better.