Lets get down and dirty with a 2ZZ., Experts only please. Options

[Guest_Jason_*]

A friend and I are looking into taking on a nice project, obviously, attempting to swap a 2ZZ(GTS) into my current 7A(ST). This good friend of mine did the swap on my previous Integra, has alot of knowledge on welding and fabricating etc, but not neccessarily in wiring (which can be dealth with at a later time). We just "out of the blue" started thinking about doing such a swap as a fun project to attempt. We just want to look into some of the difficulties we may run in to before we actually run into the situation with no way out. Basically, trying to plan out all of our problems ahead of time, so that when we reach them, we have a planned method of working around them.

What i'm asking is, if anybody can give me some possible difficulties we may run into and some helpful solutions to getting around them or making them work, please help. Our most obvious is Engine Mounts, but we aren't worried about that at all really, its pretty easy to weld new mounts on. The good thing on this is that all work is going to be done by him, making installation free unless we run into some severe difficulties. Through me some ideas guy...

We are currently trying to get our hands on a low-mileage 2ZZ.

I'm going to go ahead and come out on a limb and say right off the bat we are looking into custom axle's (unless a GT would work), relocated engine mounts, and transmission.

[Coomer]

Just out of curiosity, why spend more money than you would on a 3S-GTE swap for less horsepower? And also, wasn't your old Integra turbocharged, not swapped? Trust me, this swap will be way way harder than nearly all Honda/Acura engine swaps.

[GeEkBoY]

If you don't want turbo, the beams red-top is a way better swap than the 2ZZ, here are a few details at this link:

http://www.tuning.cz/lander/beams.htm

[5sfeTurbo]

The mere cost of a "low mileage" 2ZZmotor+Transmission+ECU will kill let alone the friggin install and disecting the wirring diagrams for both vehicles. I think this project would be better left untouched. I mean Im ALL about new ideas but your commiting suicide.

[macavely]

well off the top of my head i can't seam to think of any major problems you'll run into other then getting custom axales if the same don't fit... and unlike everyone else i think it would be a good project... and you can get a wrecked 7gc really cheap... so getting parts might be cheaper then a 3s swap....

if i think of any problems you might have i'll post again..

[97sccelica]

well, the main problem will be wiring, since the engine will fit and mount fabrication isnt hard.

it would be better to get a usdm front clip

that way the harness is already lhd oriented and will not have to be lengthened(hopefully)

then the harness will plug into the engine and go to the ecu inside the car through the stock hole in the firewall(again, hopefully)

then you have to figure out how to wire the gauges and get the 6gc HVAC to work with the 2zz AC system.

also, a new radiator may be needed along with custom ac lines, custom hybrid axels, and totally new exhaust among other things

imho, a complete waste of time and money. the 2zz was a lame attempt at beating the b18c5(type r engine right?)

the power band sucks and aftermarket is small.

[Guest_Jason_*]

Alright, don't take this the wrong way, but I didn't create this topic to get convinced out of the project. When I said getting our hands on the Engine cheap, we found a 7GC GTS with 20+ miles for 600$. All damage was done to the rear only, no problems with the front. This swap HASNT been done, so we kind of thought it would be cool to be the first at attempting this.

The engine is pretty much bought for dirt cheap, so getting the front clip is pretty much done with.

So pretty much the only difficult part is the wiring.

As far as my Integra Coomer, the Integra was a GS with a GSR swap, then it was turbocharged.

[Kwanza26]

The only hard thing about the wiring will be the gauge hook-ups, IMO. The stock harness should transfer over completely with the ECU, sensors, etc. Of course, you'll have to custom fab plumbing for cooling systems, a/c, etc... and custom mount everything... but I'd say it'll probably be less hassle than any JDM swap... cause for me, custom fab under the hood is not as hard as messing with wiring...
Drivetrain-wise... you can probably use the inner shafts that connect to the tranny, but the outer shafts have to be the right length and have to fit the front hubs. There are options... other than custom, especially since toyota uses similar hub patterns all of the time... but if not, it'll have to be custom.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Dec 29, 2003 - 2:33 AM

[boosted_K2]

[SpedToe169]

As most of you said, wiring is the hardest thing. Axles are a non-issue. Its not hard to get custom axles made (www.raxles.com). Just use the 6-speed that comes with the motor and you won't need any adaptors, so no prob there. Motor mounts you'll have to totally pull out of your a55, but if your friend is as good as he thinks he is it wont' be a problem. Fabrication of that sort really isn't that bad.

I do think the gages will be a problem. I'd be surprised if you can get the speedo to work correctly. Might just be easier to go with aftermarket gages. Also getting the hvac stuff working will be tricky. Might be easier just to take the hvac panel out of a 7gc and figure out how to make it work in the 6.

The more I think of it, wiring really shouldn't be that bad. You'll be using a US harness so everything is in the right place. All the sensors should still be in place on the motor and tranny, and you'll have the ecu. There shouldn't be much splicing of wires at all.

My overall take: This swap is easier than everybody thinks. The hardest part of the whole thing is not making the car run and drive, but making all the auxillary systems work correctly.

[GeEkBoY]

you may want to consider an aftermarket ecu to control the engine and leave the stock one to take care of the other systems. This could help with the compatability issues.

[Guest_Jason_*]

You think using the 6SPD Transmission will bolt right in with no problems at all?

I'm not all that worried about standard system things. It would be pretty simple to get my hands on a Tach, and other things like A/C etc aren't much of a concern.

[Kwanza26]

[Kwanza26]

[VlaCelica]

[SpedToe169]

An aftermarket ECU is a really bad idea with this engine. Its going to be very difficult or near impossible to get an aftermarket ecu to control the VVTL-i. The only application where a stand alone would make sense is in a full on race application where you'll be grinding custom cams and you don't care about anything below 6k rpm.

[Guest_Jason_*]

Okay, here's what i've compiled from alot of this.

- Size wise, the 2ZZ will fit right in my Engine Bay w/o problems.
- 6SPD Transmission should fit with minor customization, but should line up fine.
- Custom Axle's will need to be made.
- Keep stock 2ZZ ECU.
- New Motor Mounts to be welded.
- No serious wiring problems besides Gauge Cluster (Speed, Tach)

Sounds decent enough, and very doable.

[SpedToe169]

Yup, I think you've got it. Like I said, the auxillary stuff will be the hardest. Getting the AC, cruise, and gages working properly.....

[GeEkBoY]

[Guest_Jason_*]

I understand Geekboy, thanks man.

Well, wish me luck. I'm going to go ahead and have a mechanic look at the GTS Engine and Transmission, then hopefully buy it next week then have it shipped to my friends Garage.

[macavely]

[NEVERSTOP]

hey good luck to you man on this.. im one for doing something differnent and wastin all kinds of money on it, but have you really ever driven a 7GC? I mean seriously man there slow! expessially on the accel - top end isnt too bad but man the 0-40 feels like it takes FOREVER!

I dont know, your doing your own thing and thats cool but I really feel like I gotta say,"IS IT WORTH IT??" the cost to HP ratio is not worth it, the Time to HP ratio isnt really worth it, the only reason I can justifably see why you would do this is just for the shear fact of saying... "yea I did that" but someone already beat you to the punch on it.

I will say if the only experince you have with motor swaps is honda motors then you are not prepared for this type of task - period. I have done alot of differnt motor swaps in my life and honda ones are the easiest by far... would rather swap a honda motor than change my oil filter on my 3sgte - seriously (3sgte owners know what I mean here )

I would personally look into something more benificial and unique like a 2JZ-GTE into a 6gc - it could be done with some cutting and relocation and would have alot more bragging right to it as that is the only logical reason I can come up with as to why you would want to do this.

who knows if your gonna do it then do it and tell us how it turned out and I hope all goes well for you but research the hell out of it, just dont jump in head 1st

thats just my two cents on it

[Guest_Jason_*]

Well, I have a friend with a GTS, modified with an Injen CAI, Cam Upgrade, Greddy Exhaust and Supra Hydrolic Clutch, and we've raced Del Sol's with b16 swaps and Eclipse GST's and beat them with 4 people in the car. I personally felt with those few modifications + lift, that the car picked up and took off very well, I was happy. I'm going to be looking into Turbo'ing the car soon after the swap is completed.

But as far as my personal reasons, i'm just interested in doing something that hasn't been done (the engine itself has not been swapped into a 6GC, only the transmission), and having fun while doing it, its what I enjoy doing.

I plan on taking lots of pictures, from the point I receive the Engine to the very end. I received a Digital Camera for Christmas, so I can actually take pictures this time for everything.

[Coomer]

[Guest_Jason_*]

It wasn't my car, just a friends. He bought the car with the Supra Clutch already installed, really never got into detail, but its alot better than a factory 7GC Clutch *hates them*.

[5sfeTurbo]

Have fun bro, didnt mean to sound negative earlier. Good luck and may the force be with you