A.T. finally died. Wat do?, Rebuild A.T. or swap to M.T. Options

[travisxcore]

So my automatic transmission finally died last night. It made it 209k miles so I'm not upset with it. Plus it managed to get me all the way home doing its little super-rev (thanks Brian for giving me it a name ) thing. 1st is partially there. The bottom of 2nd and 3rd are gone. And as far as I know 4th is MIA. I knew it was coming (I had times when reverse wouldn't catch for the longest time) and the solenoids have been outta whack for a while now.

So my question to you is should I:

A. Rebuild my automatic transmission.
or
B. Swap to a manual.

Just some things to think about before coming to a decision:

-I have a GT
-Money is a concern-I don't have 3k to drop sourcing a MR2 swap
-Mechanic/Labor/Blah isn't a concern. I have plenty of friends (and myself included) that can do either or no issue.
-Time is kinda of an essence thing, my Celica is my only car so currently I have to share with my mom (Galant ) and with me working 6 days a week were gonna have some issues.
-My bud has a wrecked manual ST that would pbly give me a lot of the parts I need for cheap (besides the tranny obviously)

Now why I'm asking you is because my friends and I are split on what I should do. I want a manual and I feel like this is the perfect opportunity but some of my friends feel as though I'll end up putting more into the swap then it would cost just to buy another Celica. To a point I agree with them that could possibly be true.


So 6GC, wat do? I want opinions for both options. Thanks!

This post has been edited by travisxcore: Jul 7, 2012 - 7:37 PM

[richee3]

The S54 is such a fun trans, in my opinion. I vote 3,000% manual swap provided you can source all the parts on time.

[SwissFerdi]

S54 is common, start hunting junkyards...the rest of the parts can be had online, just a matter of cost.

[njccmd2002]

manual tranny fo sure

[easternpiro1]

sorry i missed your call man, I know someone that has a celica in their shop, I will ask if its a GT. (theyre honda guys though and dont know the diff)

[travisxcore]

sorry i missed your call man, I know someone that has a celica in their shop, I will ask if its a GT. (theyre honda guys though and dont know the diff)

Its alright man. Lol, sounds good!


So I talked to my friend that has a wrecked ST and he said for sure he'd sell me all the stuff I needed for a real decent price. I'm gonna try and get him to part it out so he can buy a GT now, so hopefully I'll have FS thread up if yall need anything. So now all I have to do is go junkyard hunting for a decent S54 and I'm ready to go!

[SwissFerdi]

(theyre honda guys though and dont know the diff)

Ha.

[trdproven]

what do you plan on getting from the ST? Not sure if there is anything you can get to swap over since most of the MT parts are different besides maybe the bezel, shifter assembly, and knob, maybe even the pedal is the same, but I know the rest may be different. You should compare whats exactly the same, since you can check your friends car, and use the internet you can see the differences that way you can use as much as you can. but if your bud is selling you the parts, you might as well compare his prices and the junkyard, if you are searching for an S54, you might as well get it all from the s54 donor.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jul 9, 2012 - 3:14 AM

[travisxcore]

Just a quick update-

Still no luck in finding a donor, although with working so much I haven't really had a chance to do any deep looking.
Matt found a GT for sale but the tranny was bad so no luck there (although I really appreciate the find).
I got offered to buy an '03 Acura CL Type S (3.2 V6 6-speed) for 5 grand from an in-law...
After some consideration on the great price and having a 260hp stock car I decided it just be best to pass on the offer.
I dont like Honda at all. But thats not why I passed up on it, I'd miss the community here. Although I dont post much I talk to some members often. I'd miss my seat hugging me every time I sat in it. I'd miss the feedback I get from the car. I'd miss the sexy 4 eyes. I'd miss having a pre-96 car (I only pay 14 bucks in county taxes, and in 3 years its a classic ) And mostly, I'd miss my Celica. Every day I fall more in love with it, and it really kills me I can't drive her; although every other day I crank her up and sit in it for a lil bit )
So I'll keep looking and hopefully it won't be too much longer till I can drive my Celica around.

Turns out that wasn't a quick update but oh well...lol

[njccmd2002]

beams swap with tranny/

[trdproven]

piece it out then, is your option.

[krom8]

Am I the only one who thinks this sounds more like the shift solenoid went bad? I've never had an automatic tranmission go out that will actually still function at all, in my experiece they'll just stop working. You might want to get someone who knows about transmissions to take a look at it, if it is just the solenoid it will save you a lot of money.

[travisxcore]

Shift solenoids had been bad for a while. Probably helped it die faster. It did its little super-rev thing (as in the motor had to rev up to 4 grand before the tires even started moving). You could audible hear the gears grinding. If my car didn't love me I swear I wouldn't have made it home cause I tried it the next day and it wouldn't go into reverse period. You could get on the gas and barely hear metal rubbing. When you put it in drive it jumps like crazy (as in a vertical motion haha), and then makes the motor go crazy. After that point I decided its not worth splitting my rear main seal even more to see if it'll go anywhere. Its done for, no doubt.

This post has been edited by travisxcore: Jul 18, 2012 - 9:19 AM

[trdproven]

Am I the only one who thinks this sounds more like the shift solenoid went bad? I've never had an automatic tranmission go out that will actually still function at all, in my experiece they'll just stop working. You might want to get someone who knows about transmissions to take a look at it, if it is just the solenoid it will save you a lot of money.

Its possible, i wrote the shift solenoid sticky, and have done it a few times with the A104e trannies successfully, but he mentioned swap to manual so thats the route I'd rather go. but if money is a big thing and he spends on a brand new OEM solenoid, just 1 costs 175 roughly. so you can imagine theres like what 2-3 solenoids, IDK if 1 or all is bad, but imagine the costs to find out after changing it, the problem is more than that unless you want to dissect the problem. Either get a good low mileage used A/T one or Swap to M/T. If you got a good sign that its the solenoid and nothing else would steer you to the idea that its probably a more major problem, then I would just do the solenoid. you can do a tranny diagnostic as well to see if what errors pop up.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jul 19, 2012 - 12:34 AM

[krom8]

Sorry about that, I didn't realize the solenoids were seperate. My only experience with them is in the early to mid 80's front wheel drive fords which have everything in one unit.

[trdproven]

its something like solenoid #1, #2, and i think something like lock solenoid, i dont remember too well. All i know is each solenoid controls certain gears, and Im not too detailed on how it works, i remember reading on it somewhere to try to understand it but i dont remember anymore, but thats how I got into those shift solenoid fixes. I remember like tranny code whatever for example, 63 is like solenoid 2 and 64 is like solenoid 1 and there is like a shift/lock solenoid. and then when i was under with the pan dropped, im pretty sure recalling to see a another solenoid you could change out because I remember i had to refer to drawings to figure out which one to change. and civics too has 2-3 but they are externally mounted on the tranny and those if you are lucky you just clean the mesh grill on the solenoid but thats for civics.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jul 20, 2012 - 6:28 AM

[travisxcore]

Update:

So I went to a junkyard today and found a totally smashed '96 Celica.
Talked to the guy about it and he quoted me around $550 for everything I need (but to bring a parts list to make sure that his guys pulled it all).
So I wrote it up and I'm gonna take it in tmrw double check everything and buy it.
Only weird thing is he won't let me buy the whole car because of title purposes? I've never had that issue before.

Anyways, they only thing I could tell that it didn't have is the shift knob and boot. But I found a nice manual MR2 while I was looking around.
So will a boot and knob off an MR2 fit? I don't see why they would be any different.

This post has been edited by travisxcore: Jul 23, 2012 - 7:53 PM

[SwissFerdi]

Good to hear you're attempting a swap. Don't forget the little things, like the brake pedal, the clutch start relay, various lines and bolts.

[travisxcore]

Yea I told him I needed literally every piece and he asked me if I was doing a conversion. He said since I was of the few people that came in to do something myself (instead of half the people that are born into money that live on the other side of town )hed work with me on the price. And hopefully I'll get even more knocked off for an exchange of my old auto and assembly since he might rebuild it to resale.

I'm getting the starter relay but idk if I'll hook it up or not because I don't think I'll be able to use the ECU (its a '96) and I really don't feel like rigging it up just so I half to hold the clutch in to start. I'm not one to leave my car in gear in the first place.

[SwissFerdi]

'96 is OBDII, you must use an OBDII manual ECU. Get it from a '96-'97 ST, or you can try with a '93-97 Corolla, as it should work (provided that the plug ports will match).

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Jul 23, 2012 - 10:07 PM

[travisxcore]

Junk is a '96, mines a '95.

[trdproven]

not sure for the OBDII, perhaps you need the ECU to prevent codes thrown? I was thinking just pull out the O/D bulb, or get a manual cluster. because i was just thinking, M/T is just all hydraulics besides wiring the clutch start, reverse, and speed sensor. Some stuff from A/T can be reused onto the manual swap like starter, axles, etc. I've actually used 3 automatic mounts on my car for months, the only manual mount was the manual tranny mount. I ended up changing the Auto to manual mounts for front and rear later. I am still on pass side auto mount.

for OBDI, I never changed my ECU when I did the swap.

[travisxcore]

You dont need a different ecu if you have pre-ob2 (like me). You just have to pull the o/d bulb or swap clusters. You dont need to have a starter relay, you can bypass it (disabling the clutch to be depressed), the reverse lights are fixed by joining a couple wires. The rest plug and plays.

[SwissFerdi]

Yeah, for OBDI you can keep your ECU and pull the bulb for the O/D light, I think that's the extent of electrical modification necessary.

Edit: dammit, you just ninja'd me.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Jul 23, 2012 - 10:24 PM

[travisxcore]

Aren't you getting ready to do the swap Swiss?

[SwissFerdi]

I am. Ordering the last of parts tomorrow, hopefully I have got everything.

[travisxcore]

Well if you need anything let me know and I can get it for you. Same goes for anyone else. They've got 5 Celicas there. 4 autos, and then the manual I'm buying everything from lol.

This post has been edited by Rusty: Jul 24, 2012 - 2:14 AM

[trdproven]

You dont need a different ecu if you have pre-ob2 (like me). You just have to pull the o/d bulb or swap clusters. You dont need to have a starter relay, you can bypass it (disabling the clutch to be depressed), the reverse lights are fixed by joining a couple wires. The rest plug and plays.

I think OBDI or OBDII either way it will work if the tranny is for sure for the car. M/T is just hydraulic, any Wiring should be relatively easy, done it for 240 swaps between different gens. error codes can be solved with the cluster/remove bulb. I know people were concerned about having an AUTO ECU and going to Manual Trans swap but thats not so much of an issue.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Jul 24, 2012 - 1:08 AM

[travisxcore]

Bad news; brought in my parts list. Was talking to the guy and I asked him to check on the computer again so I could get all the info. Turns out it was an ST even though yesterday I told the guys I needed a GT. We thought maybe it was in the computer wrong so we went over to go look at it. It was an ST So still no tranny for me.

[Keiri]

Travis, do any of those GTs have the stock airbox still intact? If so, I'd love to find out where this place is and grab it. Thanks!

[richee3]

Thread jack!

Brian, I have one in my garage if you can't grab one locally. Cover shipping and it's yours. No intake hose though.

/ thread jack.

[travisxcore]

Most of them are front end wrecks so I doubt it. Next time I head up there though I'll check for you cause I need some interior parts I believe they have.

If you want to go look, its called Wayne's. Its on Highway 3 (From Matts hood take a left, go way down till the big curve and go left at it and then youre on 3. It's like 15 minutes from his house). They have ~5 Celicas. Don't know which ones are GTs and STs though, didn't pay attention to the autos. Haha.

Also I think I still have a couple parts from my old one left over, maybe an intake house? I'll have to dig around and see for you.

This post has been edited by travisxcore: Jul 26, 2012 - 7:43 PM

[Keiri]

Thread jack!

Brian, I have one in my garage if you can't grab one locally. Cover shipping and it's yours. No intake hose though.

/ thread jack.

Thanks Dan but I should have been more specific - it's the intake hose I need not the actual box as I still have that. Thanks for the offer though my friend.

/thread jack

Back to your regularly scheduled programming!

[SwissFerdi]

/thread jack

Back to your regularly scheduled programming!

thread jack

Why not SRI/CAI?

/thread jack

[Keiri]

/thread jack

Back to your regularly scheduled programming!

thread jack

Why not SRI/CAI?

/thread jack

Already have one in but since the air temp. sensor harness hits the master cylinder and I don't feel like making a bracket to hold it up I'm going to build a hybrid intake using a stock induction hose plus a cone filter.

/threadjack
/seriously

[travisxcore]

Confused Update:

So I completely lost right now. I pushed my Celica back yesterday because it was in the way of the sprinklers and for ****s and giggles I threw it in reverse to see if I could be lazy (I start the motor up and let it run for about 10 minutes every other day so I had it running) and low and behold it went in and starts going. Now it was whining and shaking at first but after a minute I gave it some gas and it was fine. So after I'm out of the driveway I put it in drive and start going. Now it was pretty rough at first but I decided to go ahead and take it down a side road. After a few minutes of driving it started shifting buttery smooth. At the point I'm shocked, the motor was warmed up so I decided to gun it and see what it'd do. I got up to 80 and it went into every gear perfect, no jumps, stutters or anything. I go home to grab my phone so I can take it out for a longer drive. Well of course I put it in park, and when I come back out it doesn't want to go into reverse, it'd just whine. So I tried a couple more times; nothing. Today I decide I'm gonna go try it out, goes into reverse first try but of course it whines. Drive is completely fine though. I have no idea why it'd do this.

I might try flushing the fluid out and see if that helps any, but I highly doubt it. I think its just being a Celica and giving 110% even when its on its last leg. So as of now, I'm still searching for a new tranny. Lol.

This post has been edited by travisxcore: Jul 30, 2012 - 1:23 PM

[travisxcore]

Yet another update:

So I've been brainstorming with some friends and we got an idea of what it might be; The whining sounds like my trans fluid pump, but it takes 2 notches on crank like it should in park and then in drive. So possibly the filter is clogging causing my pump to work harder (making whine). To check it out, I'm driving it to a buds shop not to far away and tonight were gonna drop the pan, flush it and change the filter and see what happens.

[Special_Edy]

Yeah if the pump is out it wont pull the fluid level down the dipstick while its running, like you said.

The other thing is the torque converter. Try dropping the pan to see what it looks like. I think most people never change the fluid when you are actually supposed to change it every 20,000. Normal wear and tear on the transmission releases all kinds of shavings from the clutches

[travisxcore]

Usually pans have a thin film of metal shavings when their old and unchanged...mine had a layer of it on the bottom. So I cleaned the pan out, changed the filter, replaced the gasket and filled it back up.
Before it warmed up it was doing way better then it ever did before but once it warmed up it was back to the same old same old.
Was worth a shot though at only 30 bucks but it was a real let down that it didn't work (even though I knew it wouldn't).
So back to transmition hunting.

[Keiri]

Usually pans have a thin film of metal shavings when their old and unchanged...mine had a layer of it on the bottom. So I cleaned the pan out, changed the filter, replaced the gasket and filled it back up.
Before it warmed up it was doing way better then it ever did before but once it warmed up it was back to the same old same old.
Was worth a shot though at only 30 bucks but it was a real let down that it didn't work (even though I knew it wouldn't).
So back to transmition hunting.

Trav, if you have another vehicle and the time to drive 4 hours there's an auto GT tranny in Newport News, VA for 200: http://norfolk.craigslist.org/ptd/3164521735.html.

[Jaytwou2]

M/T swap FTW due to you having access to the parts

[travisxcore]

Alright so some of you might know (okay pbly hardly any of you) but I scored a M/T that I'm heading to pick up tmrw.

Heres a list of things I'm getting:
-S54 Transmission
-Transmission mounts (Just Drivers side)
-Clutch lines (hard lines)
-Clutch Slave Cylinder
-Shifter Cable C-Clips (2 of them)
-Shifter Cables
-Flywheel
-Clutch
-Pressure Plate
-Pressure plate bolts
-Throwout bearing
-ECU

Still need:
-Transmission mounts (rear)
-Clutch lines (soft)
-Clutch Master Cylinder
-Shifter Cable C-Clips (2 more)
-Shifter Cables
-Shifter Assembly
-Brake Pedal Assembly
-Clutch Pedal Assembly
-Manual Shifter Trim Surround
-Shift Boot
-Shift Knob

So now for more questions:

Firstly, am I missing anything else off the list of things I need?

What parts can I get off an ST (plenty of those around)?

[cajon]

Alright so some of you might know (okay pbly hardly any of you) but I scored a M/T that I'm heading to pick up tmrw.

Heres a list of things I'm getting:
-S54 Transmission
-Transmission mounts (Just Drivers side)
-Clutch lines (hard lines)
-Clutch Slave Cylinder
-Shifter Cable C-Clips (2 of them)
-Shifter Cables
-Flywheel
-Clutch
-Pressure Plate
-Pressure plate bolts
-Throwout bearing
-ECU

Still need:
-Transmission mounts (rear)
-Clutch lines (soft)
-Clutch Master Cylinder
-Shifter Cable C-Clips (2 more)
-Shifter Cables
-Shifter Assembly
-Brake Pedal Assembly
-Clutch Pedal Assembly
-Manual Shifter Trim Surround
-Shift Boot
-Shift Knob

So now for more questions:

Firstly, am I missing anything else off the list of things I need?

What parts can I get off an ST (plenty of those around)?

Sounds like you got it bro, go for it!