Interested in HID's and Options

[cyb593]

I was looking at ddmhid and i see on the site they have like 5 different kits. I was thinking about the bixenon kit. Is this the right kit or does it matter? Which number for color is the brightest or does it not matter? Should i upgrade to 55w? What about the relay harness/LBF modules? Also can i use the same balasts for high beams too? Sorry i am new to HID's and anything you can tell me will help me lots.

[Zimluura]

here is what i've always heard about hids.

1) almost always illegal to convert to them in the united states. the whole lens has to be dot approved for hid use. i think there is one place that sells a whole round headlight unit that is dot approved; but it isn't for our cars specifically. places in the us that sell them say they are for offroad use only, thus removing them from dot's jurisdiction.

2) cars that come with them have lenses that dot approves of for use with them. but even then they don't use them in their hi-beams, because the on/off nature of hi-beams doesn't work well with hid. whether it degrades them quicker or there is a warmup i don't know.

3) i am not a lawyer, but...you can always say it was there when you bought the car if you wind up in court. if you get something really intensely blue or purple you are probably more likely to get ticketed.

4) i think jdm projector lenses are better than usdm lenses if you run hids, but i could be completely wrong on that.

5) could be difficult to pass inspection with them. not really sure.

[Tigawoods]

ive gone 4 years with HID's in my oem lights without any problem

[richee3]

As a general rule, lower Kelvin ratings produce more usable light. Usually, 4,300-4,500K is the whitest light and 12,000K is purple and difficult to see with at night. 3,000K is yellow.

Don't go for the 55w upgrade. The general consensus is that the light output is marginally better than the 35w kits but it's so much hotter that it cooks the insides of your headlights.

HID's have a warmup and cool down period, making them usually unsuitable for high beam/fog light applications, unless you never use your brights.

You really should go for the harness, as the ballasts are not part of the car's electrical system.

Last, and by far most importantly, you really shouldn't put HID's in factory USDM headlights. These headlights were designed to scatter light and with HID's, you scatter intensely bright light into oncoming traffic. JDM projectors are better at controlling the light, provided you have fixed the cutoff. Granted, we've all broken these rules and gotten away with it but it's still irresponsible. I did it and never caused any accidents but I did make plenty of people mad.

Edit: The issue with HID's and the stock headlights is that the focal point is different between HID's and standard halogen bulbs. The bulb itself doesn't sit in the same place inside the headlight and therefore, the light housing can't control the light output properly. A much better option are a new type of bulb called HIR's. Same light output as LED's, yet it's the same style bulb as a regular halogen bulb so your housings control the light much better. Plus they cost about the same as a DDM kit, and they don't have a warmup or cool down period so they're great for high beams and fog lights.

This post has been edited by richee3: Aug 29, 2012 - 7:49 PM

[jordisonjr]

here is what i've always heard about hids.

1) almost always illegal to convert to them in the united states. the whole lens has to be dot approved for hid use. i think there is one place that sells a whole round headlight unit that is dot approved; but it isn't for our cars specifically. places in the us that sell them say they are for offroad use only, thus removing them from dot's jurisdiction.

2) cars that come with them have lenses that dot approves of for use with them. but even then they don't use them in their hi-beams, because the on/off nature of hi-beams doesn't work well with hid. whether it degrades them quicker or there is a warmup i don't know.

3) i am not a lawyer, but...you can always say it was there when you bought the car if you wind up in court. if you get something really intensely blue or purple you are probably more likely to get ticketed.

4) i think jdm projector lenses are better than usdm lenses if you run hids, but i could be completely wrong on that.

5) could be difficult to pass inspection with them. not really sure.

DOT has absolutely nothing to do with HIDs.
My Celica has the exact same headlight housigns as yours in the states but they are DOT approved, and really I shouldn't have HIDs in them.
DOT is simply a standard.

HID's really shouldn't be installed in headlight housings that are non projector housing (all OEM celica housings, DOT or not), and only in retreofitted projectors or JDM projectors.

[Zimluura]

this link seems to be in line with most of the research i've done.
http://orca.st.usm.edu/~jmneal/tiburon/hids.htm#9

[cyb593]

Thanks for all the information on HID's. The thing that i find it B.S. is that i run into newer vehicles with HID's that blind the hell out of me and they are factory. How is this any different from me doing the same with aftermarket equipment? I will look into my other options and see what i can find. My lights are just to dim compared to 90% of the cars in atlanta. I live on a street with no street lamps so i mean it is pitch dark and i need to be able to see a decent distance in front of my vehicle.

[Zimluura]

i hear you man!

there is a wrx around here with purple beams that are aimed way too high, i guess the law is supposed to stop that, but if he's not getting gigged for it, then the laws only stop people who do the research to convert to hid safely.

i think i've heard mixed things about the sylvania silver stars, that might be something to look into.

[Tigawoods]

I recommend silver stars if you dont want to go with HID's.
From what I remember (its been years since I had them) they were a decent amount of $
Had a nice white color, and where VERY bright and long lasting

[cyb593]

i was looking around and i saw the phillips chrystal vision ultras which are supposed to be really good i am going to give those a try. Thanks for the info, if these dont produce enough light i might just have to pull some illegal shenanigans.

[Special_Edy]

Sylvania vs Sylvania Silverstar Ultra

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Aug 30, 2012 - 11:20 AM

[richee3]

Silverstars tend to blow out often and my experience with them proved that a 65w 9005 bulb in place of a 9006 Silverstar was far brighter. Wasn't exactly the smartest thing to put that much of a draw on wires designed for 55w, but I ran that way for years with no issues. Then again, HID's put a much more sudden draw on the electrical system than the 65w bulbs do.

[ILoveMySilly97]

What I did was installed 8k HID kit for my lo-lights and bought 3k halogen bulbs for my hi-lights and fog-lights. My hid kit was was unbrand from a local store and my halogen bulbs were from an eBay user. The brand was called HiproPower. Never had a problem with both of them. Had them on for at least 4 months now. My fog lights are always on when I have my lo-lights are on. BUT over all I'd say the projectors are the best way to go if you had that 600+ money. Lol. And I don't know anything about being DOT approved but I know the projectors are NOT DOT approved.

[Special_Edy]

I couldnt imagine in a million years that someone would disassemble my car to check if my headlamps were DOT stamped or not. They dont even check the headlight alignment here in texas

[Bigblock]

So far, happy with the silverstars--
Over a year and no problems.1.

[trdproven]

I was looking at ddmhid and i see on the site they have like 5 different kits. I was thinking about the bixenon kit. Is this the right kit or does it matter? Which number for color is the brightest or does it not matter? Should i upgrade to 55w? What about the relay harness/LBF modules? Also can i use the same balasts for high beams too? Sorry i am new to HID's and anything you can tell me will help me lots.

DDM kits are pretty good for its price and its supposed lifetime warranty. I believe the bixenons are for lamps that have both low and high beam filaments in one bulb, in your case no, its separate. for the 55watts are unnecessary, they are only somewhat brighter not noticeable to the human eye, unless you put a 55w on one side and 35 in the other. and its been said there are some electrical issues. 35 watts is more than enough. just remember hids settle into 35 watts once its warmed up which is lower than stock at 55w, but at startup it pulls initial crazy wattage so imagine it at 55watts pulling at starting is way over 100w.

here is what i've always heard about hids.

1) almost always illegal to convert to them in the united states. the whole lens has to be dot approved for hid use. i think there is one place that sells a whole round headlight unit that is dot approved; but it isn't for our cars specifically. places in the us that sell them say they are for offroad use only, thus removing them from dot's jurisdiction.

2) cars that come with them have lenses that dot approves of for use with them. but even then they don't use them in their hi-beams, because the on/off nature of hi-beams doesn't work well with hid. whether it degrades them quicker or there is a warmup i don't know.

3) i am not a lawyer, but...you can always say it was there when you bought the car if you wind up in court. if you get something really intensely blue or purple you are probably more likely to get ticketed.

4) i think jdm projector lenses are better than usdm lenses if you run hids, but i could be completely wrong on that.

5) could be difficult to pass inspection with them. not really sure.

HIDs should only be run in projector lamps, thats how it comes out of the factory, and the light comes out more normal, than non-projectors, the light output is uncontrolled and just goes everywhere, it stupid.

As a general rule, lower Kelvin ratings produce more usable light. Usually, 4,300-4,500K is the whitest light and 12,000K is purple and difficult to see with at night. 3,000K is yellow.

Don't go for the 55w upgrade. The general consensus is that the light output is marginally better than the 35w kits but it's so much hotter that it cooks the insides of your headlights.

HID's have a warmup and cool down period, making them usually unsuitable for high beam/fog light applications, unless you never use your brights.

You really should go for the harness, as the ballasts are not part of the car's electrical system.

Last, and by far most importantly, you really shouldn't put HID's in factory USDM headlights. These headlights were designed to scatter light and with HID's, you scatter intensely bright light into oncoming traffic. JDM projectors are better at controlling the light, provided you have fixed the cutoff. Granted, we've all broken these rules and gotten away with it but it's still irresponsible. I did it and never caused any accidents but I did make plenty of people mad.

Edit: The issue with HID's and the stock headlights is that the focal point is different between HID's and standard halogen bulbs. The bulb itself doesn't sit in the same place inside the headlight and therefore, the light housing can't control the light output properly. A much better option are a new type of bulb called HIR's. Same light output as LED's, yet it's the same style bulb as a regular halogen bulb so your housings control the light much better. Plus they cost about the same as a DDM kit, and they don't have a warmup or cool down period so they're great for high beams and fog lights.

AGREED

here is what i've always heard about hids.

1) almost always illegal to convert to them in the united states. the whole lens has to be dot approved for hid use. i think there is one place that sells a whole round headlight unit that is dot approved; but it isn't for our cars specifically. places in the us that sell them say they are for offroad use only, thus removing them from dot's jurisdiction.

2) cars that come with them have lenses that dot approves of for use with them. but even then they don't use them in their hi-beams, because the on/off nature of hi-beams doesn't work well with hid. whether it degrades them quicker or there is a warmup i don't know.

3) i am not a lawyer, but...you can always say it was there when you bought the car if you wind up in court. if you get something really intensely blue or purple you are probably more likely to get ticketed.

4) i think jdm projector lenses are better than usdm lenses if you run hids, but i could be completely wrong on that.

5) could be difficult to pass inspection with them. not really sure.

DOT has absolutely nothing to do with HIDs.
My Celica has the exact same headlight housigns as yours in the states but they are DOT approved, and really I shouldn't have HIDs in them.
DOT is simply a standard.

HID's really shouldn't be installed in headlight housings that are non projector housing (all OEM celica housings, DOT or not), and only in retreofitted projectors or JDM projectors.

agreed, DOT and HID are not related unless you run those pink HID ones or something i as cop would pull him over. HIDS come in stock from the factory so its not DOT related, its more of a standard and how US regulations test or ensure how glass/plastic is made on a car. and tires, wtvr.

I couldnt imagine in a million years that someone would disassemble my car to check if my headlamps were DOT stamped or not. They dont even check the headlight alignment here in texas

DOT is always if im wrong correct me but they are always outside in the lens somewhere showing DOT, SAE, or Stanley either way. i just think this cus i look at everyones lights and its always on the outside or visibile looking at it.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Aug 30, 2012 - 8:12 PM

[Box]

Ditto on the HIR bulbs. They're considerably brighter than standard halogen, all you have to do to make them work with our housing is cut off a tab on the bulb's base.

Here's some specs for those interested.

9006 - 55 watts - 1000 lumens
9005 - 65 watts - 1700 lumens

9012 - 55 watts - 1870 lumens
9011 - 65 watts - 2350 lumens

D2R HID capsule - 35 watts - 2800 lumens

Definitely what I'll be switching to once my SilverStar bulbs burn out.

[trdproven]

Ditto on the HIR bulbs. They're considerably brighter than standard halogen, all you have to do to make them work with our housing is cut off a tab on the bulb's base.

Here's some specs for those interested.

9006 - 55 watts - 1000 lumens
9005 - 65 watts - 1700 lumens

9012 - 55 watts - 1870 lumens
9011 - 65 watts - 2350 lumens

D2R HID capsule - 35 watts - 2800 lumens

Definitely what I'll be switching to once my SilverStar bulbs burn out.

for 9006 no need its plug n play, for the h1, you can just use the plastic ring that comes with the bulb holder or use the rubber grommet thats on the bulb wire to create the tightness.

[Box]

Here's a how to that I had found: http://shnu.us/HIR%20Trimming%20A.htm

[trdproven]

problem with those halogen aftermarket replacement bulbs if you are not going HID, is that they burn out faster, and can melt the harness. when I didnt have HIDs yet, still those aftermarket bulbs, it burned my heavy duty harness, lucky it wasnt my stock harness. I see some brands now running it as stock wattage now. I really still think they dont run stock wattage though, maybe a bit higher like to 80watts range.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Aug 31, 2012 - 12:02 AM

[Special_Edy]

Its not that hard to run a relay for your headlights, but you will end up melting the housing before too long

[Box]

That's the beauty of the HIR bulbs, they last just as long as standard halogen and are the same wattage.

[Galcobar]

Some good information and some not necessarily accurate information in this thread.

Start with the basics: types of housings and reflectors.

There is your basic parabolic reflector (smooth reflective surface, often hemispherical). These are typically paired with a glass lens which shapes the reflected light. This is the oldest and cheapest design to produce. Poor quality or throwaway designs use thicker glass for the lens, which leads to less light on the road. This is the source of much of the improvement people report when switching from sealed beam headlights to permanent housings.

Then you have the complex reflector. In this design, which is what many people refer to as "crystal clear," the glass front is clear and plays no role in shaping the beam pattern. In this case the interior reflector is multi-faceted, thus the term "complex" reflector. Without computers these reflectors were too difficult to design, so they are notably newer but can fit into smaller spaces than the older parabolic design. These are vulnerable to poor reflector design. However, the clear front glass allows more light to pass through, so when properly executed they are more efficient than the parabolic design.

The best option, so far, is a projector module design. These modules use the thinnest front glass and capture more of the light produced by the bulb, making them the most efficient design. This is why many HID systems use projector modules.

To be clear, not all HID systems use projectors, and not all cars with projectors have HID. The Nissan Altima 2.5 SE used a complex reflector housing with HID bulbs, for example, and projector headlights were commercially available in the 1960s, long before HID was developed. They are typically used together for the premium look and superior performance of each system.

Something else to keep in mind is that the design of the housing depends on the bulb type. A different reflector shape, even if the same basic type of housing is used, applies to each bulb. Halogen bulbs have glowing filaments, HID have no filaments at all. You cannot properly use a housing meant for a halogen bulb to hold an HID system. This is a primary reason why conversions are illegal.

Now, specific to this thread: most of the people here are dealing with North American cars. These cars came with headlights which adhered to America's DOT regulations. DOT rules were written in the 1950s, for parabolic reflectors and cities with minimal lighting. The DOT beam pattern is designed to illuminate overhead signs. In short, they are obsolete. Moving from a headlight which uses the DOT-mandated beam pattern to one which uses the European-spec beam pattern is a vast improvement, even when they are the same basic parabolic design. The lenses are an upgrade.

This is the balance. Complex reflectors may give you more light output over an older parabolic design. But the beam pattern is what determines how much of that light is useful. Pulling numbers from the air, let's say from the same bulb a complex reflector outputs 2000 lumens, while a parabolic reflector allows 1800. However, the complex reflector is a DOT design which only puts 50% of that light on the road. The parabolic housing puts 65% of the light on the road. Useful light is 1000 lumens for the complex versus 1170 for the parabolic. Quality old tech usually wins over poorly executed new tech.

A key point for North Americans is that Japanese, UK and several other countries' beam patterns are reversed and using their projectors will blind incoming drivers. The modern beam pattern has a flat cutoff with an kink up to illuminate signs at the side of the road, like so: ____/. Drive on the wrong side and that kink is now illuminating oncoming drivers. E-code lenses use the same sharp cutoff, but are meant for driving on the right side of the road, as we do in North America. JDM projectors might give you a sharp cutoff, but it's still not a suitable beam pattern.

The glare seen with factory HID systems is rarely the factory's fault. The sharp cutoff required to make these bright lights safe for road use demands a different procedure to correctly aim them. A lot of people, mechanics included, don't realize this and aim the headlights after bulb replacements the same way they aim halogen headlights which conform to the DOT beam pattern, which is to say they aim them too high.

Sylvania Silverstars are a tinted lightbulb. This means they produce less useful light than their non-tinted counterparts. The source of the Sylvania Silverstar is the Osram Silverstar (Osram is Sylvania's European parent company). The Silverstars and their Philips VisionPlus counterparts are ultra-high efficiency bulbs, producing 50 per cent more light at the cost of durability -- standard halogens last for about 850 hours, ultra-high efficiency bulbs are expected to last about 150 hours. The tint on the Sylvania Silverstars cuts the light output from 150 per cent of a standard halogen to 110 per cent.

There are bulbs which produce even more light, but with decreasing bulb life. Going the other direction, high efficiency bulbs such as the Osram Super, Sylvania XV or Philips Premium produce 30 per cent more light than a standard halogen and last as long or longer.

That blue tint also decreases visibility in other ways. Lower colour temperatures (measured in Kelvins) are better for night driving. Our eyes use two different types of light sensors, colour-sensitive cones for bright situations and rods for low light situations. There are 120 million rods compared to 7 million cones, and rods are about 1000 times as sensitive as cones.

If our eyes have adapted to the dark and are relying on the rods to see, blue light is glaring. If our eyes then adjust to the blue light, we switch from rods to cones and lose night vision, producing a tunnel effect where you can't see outside of your headlights' direct illumination. Peripheral vision and motion detection is far better with rods activated. Red and yellow light, unless it's quite bright, don't activate the cones.

Atmospheric conditions are another consideration with high colour temperatures. The sky is blue and opaque because blue light is scattered by water. In rain, fog or snow, blue headlights will bounce back, creating a blinding wall of light ahead of you. Red and yellow light, because of their longer wavelengths, penetrate the water or mist and let you see the road ahead. This is why fog lights are often yellow.

My advice: get a good-quality housing with a proper E-code lens. Cibie is the best. Then pair it with a high efficiency bulb. You'll get more light, properly shaped.

This post has been edited by Galcobar: Aug 31, 2012 - 5:04 PM

[Syaoran]

My advice: get a good-quality housing with a proper E-code lens. Cibie is the best. Then pair it with a high efficiency bulb. You'll get more light, properly shaped.

Sadly Cibie makes nothing for the Celica.

[trdproven]

That's the beauty of the HIR bulbs, they last just as long as standard halogen and are the same wattage.

in a perfect world, HIDs are supposed to last way longer than halogen bulbs, but then not everything is created equal, you can have a bulb go out prematurely, as same with the ballasts, so yea in a perfect world we hope these aftermarket stuff lasts at least close to advertised. for like those super or hyper white bulbs like Nokya, you can only wish they last as long as regular bulbs, they burn out faster and melt harnesses sometimes.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Sep 1, 2012 - 8:24 AM