difference between 96+ and 94 5sfe, swap over reasons..cylinder 2 and 3 Options

[Spider77]

So lets say that my 94 5s bit the dust. If i were to swap in a 96+ 5s what kinds of things do i need to keep an eye on? Parts that are non inter hangeable, etc....

This post has been edited by Spider77: Sep 23, 2012 - 7:36 PM

[richee3]

I know the harness and sensors (compliments of the change to OBDII) are different but it can be converted using the parts you already have.

[Special_Edy]

Distributor, throttlebody, egr system and O2 sensor of your original engine need to be used. You could also just bolt your old cylinder head to the newer block.

[bloodMoney]

You'll also need to swap out the front plate (that holds the oil pump).

The OBDII crank angle sensor is in there.

[Special_Edy]

You'll also need to swap out the front plate (that holds the oil pump).

The OBDII crank angle sensor is in there.

Wouldnt this be unused on his 94. Not that it wouldnt hurt to take the crank sensor out but it isnt necessary. I'd be willing to bet that most of the misc. sensors are the same but the distributor and everything bolted to the intake needs to be reused.
I'll compare zfjohnson07's 98GT to my 94GT this weekend and let you know if there are any major differences that we notice.

[Spider77]

Thanks for the replies. The one i was worried about was the crank angle sensor....i read somewhere on here to swap pumps and crank pulley. Really want to make sure as i want this to work with minimal problems.

[Special_Edy]

On the 94 there is no crankshaft position sensor. Instead it only has a camshaft position sensor inside the distributor. If you put the 96+ block in with a crankshaft position sensor in then it doesnt matter. You can leave the crank sensor on the engine without it plugged into anything(theres nowhere to plug it in on the 94) or you can remove it from the engine if you so desire. So long as you have a 94 distributor installed youre gold.

[Smaay]

On the 94 there is no crankshaft position sensor. Instead it only has a camshaft position sensor inside the distributor. If you put the 96+ block in with a crankshaft position sensor in then it doesnt matter. You can leave the crank sensor on the engine without it plugged into anything(theres nowhere to plug it in on the 94) or you can remove it from the engine if you so desire. So long as you have a 94 distributor installed youre gold.

this ^^^^

[bloodMoney]

Right.

Reading PWNS me. I thought he was going from 94 TO 96+.....

I had to do this when I swapped my 93 5s into the 96

[Spider77]

I am replacing my shot 94 engine with a 96+ (to my knowledge)...should be a fun few days.

[Special_Edy]

pull the pan off and verify the rod bearing is shot before you pull the motor out. It would be sad to replace the motor when all you have is an exhaust leak on a loose nut/bolt somewhere

[Spider77]

Or metal flecks glistening in your fresh oil....I know right! I wish it was something so simple. But I doubt a loose bolt somewhere would shut the engine down

[Spider77]

OK....lets talk some minor differences in the years between the engines. I'll go into more detail at a later point. Right now I need to ask a question. While taking off my fuel injector connectors, they decided to fall apart and break on me. Normally this would not be a problem, considering I have some connectors off the other harness that I can use. But the wire colors are different between the two production years. Would this be an issue, or would I be ok with hooking up the same blade/receptacle combo?

[Special_Edy]

OK....lets talk some minor differences in the years between the engines. I'll go into more detail at a later point. Right now I need to ask a question. While taking off my fuel injector connectors, they decided to fall apart and break on me. Normally this would not be a problem, considering I have some connectors off the other harness that I can use. But the wire colors are different between the two production years. Would this be an issue, or would I be ok with hooking up the same blade/receptacle combo?

shouldnt matter, all 5S-FE engines are 2 group batch fired. Just dont get the order mixed up, not that it would make a noticable difference in performance if you did. You can look at the engine wiring diagram and find the color for #1 injector

[Spider77]

Well....soldered a bit ago....pretty easy. Big wire vs small wire.....for those who want to know.

[Spider77]

So....its running....sorta. real bad at idle and has no pick up and go. New wires and plugs but still runs bad. I pulled the wires while it was running...pulling 2 and 3 made no difference....while pulling 1 and 4 killed the engine....im fairly sure i put the injectors in the correct order but would timing be an issue? Everything checked before i installed the motor....
Rechecked the fuel injector wiring....had 2 and 3 mixed up....fixed that....runs a touch better but still no low end.....im open to suggestions

This post has been edited by Spider77: Sep 23, 2012 - 8:58 PM

[Special_Edy]

So....its running....sorta. real bad at idle and has no pick up and go. New wires and plugs but still runs bad. I pulled the wires while it was running...pulling 2 and 3 made no difference....while pulling 1 and 4 killed the engine....im fairly sure i put the injectors in the correct order but would timing be an issue? Everything checked before i installed the motor....
Rechecked the fuel injector wiring....had 2 and 3 mixed up....fixed that....runs a touch better but still no low end.....im open to suggestions

Did you use a timing light on it?

[Spider77]

I checked the timing by lining up the notches and it was good.....the only time ive used a light was when i advanced my timing...tomorrow im going to check voltage at the injectors.....could be dead/dirty injectors. Shoulda bought that o ring kit.....
The car drives fine after i get up to speed....its just getting up to speed thats the problem....feels like it wants to die on low speeds....almost like its having breathing problems.....did a compression check as well....that checked out too.....

[Special_Edy]

Id check the vacuum, egr and pcv systems. Check the coil and tps sensor with your multimeter.

[Smaay]

injectors cant get out of order but the connectors could. its possible that 2 and 3 are swapped. try that

[Spider77]

Swaped em....pulled plug wires and still the same. Gunna test voltage at connectors and pull resistance at the injectors....and go from there

[Special_Edy]

Swaped em....pulled plug wires and still the same. Gunna test voltage at connectors and pull resistance at the injectors....and go from there

Really sounds like a coil to me, especially since it got cranked without the coil wire attached or grounded

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Sep 24, 2012 - 11:25 AM

[Spider77]

I have a spare around i think......

[Smaay]

check to see if you have spark, check to see if injectors are clicking.

[Spider77]

Im getting spark.....

[Special_Edy]

If its starting and running its getting spark, check the primary and secondary resistance with your multimeter. Sometimes when they go out they will still deliver a weak spark at idle and then run normal at higher rpm. I just had this happen on my friends Mazda, it would idle fine, run like dog crap with any more than 10% throttle, then run perfectly normal above 3000rpm.

[Spider77]

Well...here is what i got....both injectors have resistance in spec....the wiring for number 3 has voltage to both sides...where as wiring for number 2 only has voltage to one side.....nothing in the manual about voltage going to just 1 side or both.....weird thing when they were removed i had my throttle response back.
Ok....so listened to the injectors....1 and 4 sound great. 2 sounds really weak...wasnt able to listen to three....too far away.
Cleaned tb and iac...that helped a bit....i have some idle hunting now...ita quite obvious...lull in motor with a sharp hissing sound from the tb. Keep trouble shooting i guess


This post has been edited by Spider77: Sep 24, 2012 - 9:07 PM

[Akirad1]

dang that sucks that your car is down

[Special_Edy]

How about the missing VSS, is there a vacuum leak there?

[Spider77]

I still have a few places to check....mostly everything topside is good....need to check the looped evac system and all yhe ones on the underaide.....hopefully later today when i have more daylight.

[Spider77]

Code 22 anyone? Pulled coolant temp sensor code this morning......at least ive got a cel....

[Special_Edy]

Theres your misfire. Its the one with two wires on the coolant pipe thates above the transmission.

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Sep 25, 2012 - 8:08 AM

[Spider77]

Replaced and still the same.....damn.
So i got a good listen to the injectors....both two and three i can hardly hear the clicking....while one and four sound good.....guess ita time to get some o rings.....too bad im working two weeks through....

This post has been edited by Spider77: Sep 25, 2012 - 7:32 PM

[Special_Edy]

Replaced and still the same.....damn.
So i got a good listen to the injectors....both two and three i can hardly hear the clicking....while one and four sound good.....guess ita time to get some o rings.....too bad im working two weeks through....

You can swap injectors to test them, swap the potentially bad ones with what you think are good ones and see if the problem follows them across cylinders.
Of course a cylinder balance test would also be a good idea.

[Spider77]

Pulled injectors....two of them had some sort of build up in them....now to replace and button up

[Spider77]

Yeah....much better now.... Low end seems better throttle response back....let the rtv cure and ill drive tomorrow!

[Spider77]

So everything seemed fine....when i drove it same issues. Checked my wires...voltage within specs from ecu....suspected a broken wire so tested for continunity....have that....injectors still not clicking....anyone know the resistance for thw wirws that run from ecu to fuel injector?

[Spider77]

Word....swapped ecu's and now i have 3 active injectors.....leaves me to believe a wiring issue with injector 3. Time to take readings... again

[Spider77]

All injectors firing! Looks like ill be driving tomorrow! Everything checks good....so far.

[Spider77]

Drove around for a while....runs smooth now. So glad to be done with this proccess. Now question remains on what to do with the 5s i pulled.....

[Special_Edy]

Drove around for a while....runs smooth now. So glad to be done with this proccess. Now question remains on what to do with the 5s i pulled.....

Damn, I wish I would of gotten up earlier and drove with you, but sunday is my only morning to sleep in.

Is the cylinder head any good, mine has a burnt valve

[Spider77]

The only problem i have is a slight coolant leak, but im aware of it and when i do a fluid change ill take care of it then. Other than that she drives like new...better than before. I got everything together and gunna baby it for the next two weeks to make sure ive got no issues.

[Special_Edy]

Yeah, I always keep the underskirts off the car for a few weeks so I can inspect it until I have confidence in the new equipment.